Ah yes, changing ones opinion based on new evidence on their first read through truly is abhorrent.In post 563, Old Man wrote:The atrocious 180 heel-turn from the above post is noted.
Well I asked you to see what your answer would be. And this response is very surface level and shows to me you are bending over backwards to find the most benign light possible. Firebringer made the sweeping statement as support for his "case" on me. I call him on it. His reaction? Nothing. He completely avoids addressing the topic AT ALL. Nary a single mention. Personally I didn't expect him to change his read on me for that. But a Town honestly trying to ascertain my alignment ... I would have expected something. Anything. Even a "Ok, my memory was bad ... but that doesn't make you Town". But nada.In post 558, Kmd4390 wrote:Magna, I'm not saying you're pushing policy lynches. It's more that the things you tend to legitimately find scummy are things others would consider policy. You see poor play and think "that must be scum". Your example in that very post about firebringer is exactly what I'm talking about. Does it benefit him as town to lie about being able to read you accurately? No. Does it benefit him as scum to lie about something so easily provable that he's sure to get the reaction from you that he got? Of course not. What's more likely is that he thought he was better at reading you than he is and he was mistaken. Unfortunately that tells us nothing about firebringer's alignment. But you see that he told us something and you can prove it wrong so he must be lying and must be scum.
Can you prove this duality that axel is doingIn post 245, roflcopter wrote:cheerleading the eddie wagon, giving kmd a red flag for being on the eddie wagon
So your reaction to a counter-wagon forming on your strongest Town read trying to compete with your scum read in Lycan is this fluff?In post 566, Old Man wrote:Why are there so many votes on hitogoroshi? He is one of my strongest townreads.
I'd say KMD but I want you to assess what I'm saying independent of just sheeping me please. It would be helpful.In post 580, Pine wrote:MoI who should I be voting rn.
This is a post that’s trying to pick a fight with me and make this game personal.In post 576, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Well I asked you to see what your answer would be. And this response is very surface level and shows to me you are bending over backwards to find the most benign light possible. Firebringer made the sweeping statement as support for his "case" on me. I call him on it. His reaction? Nothing. He completely avoids addressing the topic AT ALL. Nary a single mention. Personally I didn't expect him to change his read on me for that. But a Town honestly trying to ascertain my alignment ... I would have expected something. Anything. Even a "Ok, my memory was bad ... but that doesn't make you Town". But nada.
You keep harping on bad play as if it is only something that comes from Town and that's just not true. Scum can and do play poorly as well.
In fact here's a link of Firebringer's ISO in Kids TV Mafia. He's scum and Day 2 he faked a cop guilty on Spiffeh. Eventually he walked it back but clearly as scum he's not unwilling to make "poor" plays against players he feels are stronger. Because he feels comfortable doing it. Now maybe here he is Town just trying to effect some sort of policy lynch because he feels I don't give him the proper respect. I grant it is possible. But it is also possible he's scum. And the fact you don't even consider it an option is suspect.
It's not boring, I'm just way behind in a very dense and somewhat hostile game. Summoning the hours and willpower to close read this thicket are just not presenting themselves.In post 581, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I'd say KMD but I want you to assess what I'm saying independent of just sheeping me please. It would be helpful.In post 580, Pine wrote:MoI who should I be voting rn.
Sorry the game is boring you. Did you ever get to re-reading Fire like I requested?
um okIn post 578, Ginngie wrote:Can you prove this duality that axel is doingIn post 245, roflcopter wrote:cheerleading the eddie wagon, giving kmd a red flag for being on the eddie wagon
in 68axelrod wrote:So, what we're saying is, the two guys who didn't confirm in the thread, but the mod. said were confirmed actually confirmed in the scum PT, yes?
I'm almost ready to actually believe that, just because both of them have also been off just posting in the thread. I agree with everything Magna is saying here:
<snip>
I mean, it's thin, but it's D1 with less than 100 posts. I could vote for Eddie, but given he's already at L-2, I don't think I'm going to just yet.
a giant wall of text in 115If I squint I can see that maybe Eddie is saying that his /confirm post was the joke.
The problem is the way he immediately followed it up with the "vote: kmd this is not a joke" post kind of dilutes and confuses the effect, if that's what he was going for. Also, it doesn't/didn't actually answer the question of "how did he confirm" either.
i'm not going to quote block post 125 because it's in response to moi asking for even more detail as if we somehow needed axelrod to give us more detail about his scumread that he never actually puts a vote on but believe me when i say he devotes more words to shading eddieThe thing about Eddie right now though, is that he's not explaining himself and being super-obstinate. He's been asked questions he's ignored and some he's deliberately refused to answer, and kind of justified it with "I'm just sitting back and watching for now, and I'm going to wait until later to say anything." Which isn't really reasonable. One way to read that is: he's accumulated heat (rightly or wrongly), and so now he's trying to stay low and not post anything, hoping the pressure will just go away as other people talk more and draw it away. And that's kind of scummy. The other possibility is that he's just super-annoyed at a wagon that got up to 6 votes for what he feels is no reason whatsoever, so now he's going to be contrary. I could see some of that. I'd probably ignore the first 4 votes on me also (except he didn't completely ignore them - he votes KMD for one of them). But the last two votes weren't random RVS votes. So he ought to at the very least have a response to those. Plus, some people (myself included) who aren't even voting him, have at least commented about him, and he's ignoring them also. The only one he engaged with even a little was Magna, basically to insult him.
That's kind of where I am with him right now. I'm waiting to see what he says when he deems it time to actually post something significant. Then we'll go from there I guess.
only after this post do we have axel's about face to plop eddie onto his townread pile. soon he'll switch to cheerleading the tywin wagon instead, in addition to throwing gasoline on the kmd wagon fire, while (you guessed it) keeping his vote on pine. see post 307 for example, where axel even says "i kind of want to vote for kmd" while presenting a beefy chunk of case against kmd and then... never votes for kmd.In post 214, Axelrod wrote:I was waiting to see what KMD had to say about Eddie's point (that KMD knows Eddie, and knows he isn't just some random newbie, and therefore should/would have said something about the largely baseless wagon that was forming on Eddie, as opposed to, you know, joining it.)
KMD finally posted @192 and it was...weird. He actually goes through the wagon on Eddie, looking at all the votes, and remarking on which ones seemed like normal RVS, what ones could have come from town and what ones pinged him, buthe completely ignores/omits any reference to his own vote? Which was the Fourth one.
So@KMD:what was up with your vote for Eddie? Did you see that he had three on him already and that you would be #4? If it was RVS, did it concern you at all when two more people jumped on after you, putting Eddie to L-2? You certainly didn't say anything about it, and you didn't unvote.
This is kind of a Red Flag for me on KMD here.
and rather than actually campaign for people to join him on the pine wagon he follows it up with 346 and 356 against kmd and tywin.This has been Pine. And there's still nothing here that comes across as Townie to me. And that in and of itself is somewhat telling.
This posts feels weird. You're making it sound like you're not one of the people who dislike Tywin and it feels like you're wanting to give Lycan an opportunity to defend himself.In post 469, Firebringer wrote:Whats been up with you Lycan? Seems people don't really like your slot so much.What your thoughts on people scumreading it?
Can you briefly explain why PJ's post made you so angry? You acknowledged in 533 that some of his points may have been fair.In post 522, Eddie Cane wrote:I can go into what made me angry and why I offered to sub if people like, but usually I just get bitched at for my AtE so I won't unless its requested.
I find this problematic that you are reading it as scum-scum.In post 546, Lycanfire wrote: Sure, I read it as S+S (128-130). Just looking at the call from TL onto Chamber and Chamber's immediate need to justify his work, only to be immediately shot down by Pine is suspect. We don't have the same Chamber with us after this exchange, in fact he will leave soon after.
>150 chamber says he isn't trying to get people to vote for eddie, while voting eddie. then why are you voting eddie?
>157 chamber hasn't properly metadived eddie... proceeds to explain how they have metadove eddie. comes to a conclusion that matches their vote, but refuses to be definite or like in 150, get people to vote eddie.
And smacked the brake pedal hard 12 hours after his post on Eddie and requested replacement.
I wasn't intending to make roflcoptor feel anything.In post 511, Tammy wrote:The way you phrased it feel like you're using rhetoric in a dishonest way. Like you're trying to get rofl to feel even better about his scum read there and in a way that leaves your hands clean.
I think Kison has asked similar questions.In post 476, insanity018 wrote:@Roflcoptor
Can you answer this -
In post 391, insanity018 wrote:What is your read on Tywin?In post 333, roflcopter wrote:i don't like the tywin wagon
Do you have a reason for your read on hito apart from a vague, unarticulated suspicion that he is scum with Axelrod?
What have you liked about Tywin's post? What did you think was fine about Lycanfire's post?In post 514, Pine wrote:Talk to me about Tywin. I never saw the SR on him, and Lycan looks fine to me.
Why are you asking other players to explain your reads for you?In post 526, MagnaofIllusion wrote: Axel and Insanity have slid down in general for the exact same reason … which I’m waiting to see how others address.
OldMan continues to be focused more on meta than scum-hunting. Again suspect for someone who “wanted privacy” to be free from meta themselves.
This is a really self-centered and arrogant way to approach reads."Obvious town by play" is just not a thing you say about yourself - how well you're a window to your alignment isn't something you judge yourself. But assuming you do fire off the IC tomorrow and all of the MoI posts on you are indeed "wasted", how does that make *all his posts* empty and useless noise? You don't have any real stated thoughts on KMD and Firebringer - so why the criticism of MoI for "not exploring avenues" when I have no idea what your interaction with those cases is? Player content doesn't live or die based on their interactions withIn post 564, Old Man wrote: You are correct. Magna is currently tunnelling me, who is not only obvious town by play but literally have a role claim backing me up. He continues to do this up till his most recent post of the game. Consequently all his posts so far have been empty and useless noise. I am sure you are aware how frustrating this must be. He is failing to even contribute to town by exploring other avenues at all.
Since he is not listening to a word I say I have no choice to request your help, for the betterment of the town and for his own sake, to do something more productive.
There's no shame in repping out. If it sucks for you to balance this with your new commitments, it'll also suck for all of us trying to read your slot while trying to figure out what's due to your alignment and what's due to personal circumstances.In post 585, Pine wrote: It's not boring, I'm just way behind in a very dense and somewhat hostile game. Summoning the hours and willpower to close read this thicket are just not presenting themselves.
Especially not with an infant sleeping on my chest right now.
Do you feel differently about rofl 588? He's talking about the same Axel voteparking.In post 589, insanity018 wrote:I liked 541. I thought he made good points about Eddie Cane and Axelrod possibly voteparking.
So, for a second it looked like MoI was going to maintain "Firebringer and KMD are both likely scum, but unlikely buddies". This sort of set me off, because it's setting up a chain-on-mislynch where he lynches Firebringer, then says "Oh, KMD -knew- Firebringer was town and defended him! Aha!". But before I could post anything about it, MoI proactively swapped to KMD.What is the gross chain of mislynch in 555?
Um, in the context you quoted I'm not. I'm holding the specific mention of what I found scummy about your and Axel's play to see who else comments on it or agrees with it. Hito's already weighed in and I think his read on the situation is Towny.In post 591, insanity018 wrote:Why are you asking other players to explain your reads for you?
I'm curious about why you are still trying to argue that OldMan is scum, even though he may possibly be confirmed town tomorrow. Do you believe that he should be lynched today?
do either hito's genuine and original points or my sheeped sentiments in any way change, make you revisit or move the needle on your axel read? or is your position on axel still what you said in 267?In post 595, insanity018 wrote:Roflcoptor's post came afterwards and seemed to be sheeping the sentiment. Hito's post felt more genuine and original.
Well, I wouldn't have to keep repeating my lame questions if you answered the first time. Why do you think Tywin's town? What do you like about his posting?
for the record these supposedly sheeped sentiments are literally the same thing i was after axel for half the day agoI think I've been pretty transparent that I've found things that were odd in Axel's post, questioned him and am fine with his responses.