Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[roflcopter]

like can you imagine, you, me and hito all together on the axel wagon, it would be so great

[MagnaofIllusion]

like can you imagine, you, me and hito all together on the axel wagon, it would be so great

How about this ... I'll do a complete reset on Axel in the next few days and reread him fresh and let you know if I agree by moving my vote if that is the case.

What do you think about KMD?

[roflcopter]

here's what i think of kmd: whatever moi vs kmd thing has been going on is a big town vs town **** wagging contest that various scum have been taking cover behind or helping fan the flames. i'm pretty much not at all interested in pursuing a kmd lynch.

here's something to look out for when you reread axel, just something i remember thinking as i've been reading his posts all game - it seems like he's just repeating talking points half the time. only scum and politicians need talking points.

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: rofl

[Eddie Cane]

anyone i listed in my recent post as a scumread - axel, insanity, pine, old man

town

town

maybe scum

ic

yea

nah

Can you briefly explain why PJ's post made you so angry? You acknowledged in 533 that some of his points may have been fair.

short version: I know its part of mafia, but I get a little stressed when I get pushed/cased and a lot more so when its in a game I think I could realistically be mislynched in. I get more stressed when its not a good case. I get even more stressed when the case is personally insulting and rehashing things we've been through over and over. He posted that right before work, and kind of ruined my shift because being in a shit mood and stressed while you're bartending is not a good place to be.

[Eddie Cane]

Yeah I'll be reading the last like 10 pages privately but consider me caught up enough

Also lol @ the old man for thinking I don't read the scum chat before I start posting in games.

If I was scum, why the fuck would I have even pushed you to begin with if I was told you were an IC beforehand

there's no day chat my scumfriend <3


-

I think sorting Hito wins this game. Also, I should probably go back and not glaze over Doggo's posts.

[Ginngie]

Rofl I get you solidly scum read Axel and are giving real effort to move votes there. But I don't see that happening at this juncture.

So feel free to continue your push but anyone else you feel is worth a vote that you'd be willing to back as we get closer to deadline.

Okay after reading what I believe to be a really damn good point by roflcopter

(just read their latest post regarding axel's duality situation of pushing one thing but voting the other.

It just fits of pushing mislynches while not being on the wagon directly so you don't get blamed for it type of way.)

I really don't get why you'd say this as well?

There's like 12 days left of deadline?

You're trying to shoot down a wagon with a concern for time when there is no concern for time and I'm reading it as a defense of axel without actually defending him.

[CooLDoG]

somebody give me a quick recap or else it will be a while before I can catch-up and I'll be reading from around here.

[CooLDoG]

Why are there so many votes on hitogoroshi? He is one of my strongest townreads.

because he has been a scummy fuck, as I have pointed out.

unvote

hito maybe just look at axel with a critical eye again idk
like has he seriously just been on the pine vote this whole time? has he changed his position on this voteparking behavior since 273? (has he? i really don't know <.<)
he's been sitting on his pine vote which is ostensibly a vote for pine not being town enough or something but he's been throwing shade from there on select other wagons like eddie and tywin that are probably on town

vote: axelrod

calling all townies to vote for axelrod

Axle is not the worst lynch, but I don't see how he is trying to set-up town lynches. I read him as activly trying to catch scum, which gets d1 town points from CooLDoG.

So I was reading post 271 and it got me thinking about this wild theory.

It does follow an assumption of Cooldog being town.

One thing I'm curious about is if, on a subconscious level, rofl suggesting in post 69 to tell CD to fake claim doctor akins to a scum player thinking what would bait out town PRs like the doctor CC Cooldog mentions right under the quote.

100% correct. Although I think the two "correct" lines of play for a PGO would be either to claim d1, OR claim when forced or somewhere very late or not at all. Claiming doctor never seems to me to be the correct move simply given the fact that a cc will happen where two town are on both ends of the who must get lynched. I'm not sure if rofl was being dumb or being scum.

And I realize as I posted I won’t make it personal, I basically fdid.

Can we focus on the points being made though.

to break my rule of "never defend players d1", Firebringer is being adhommed and is a stupid lynch for today.

also, I'm having to move soon, so my ability to participate in this d1 is going to be somewhat limited for the next couple of days. By the second week of next month I'll have literally nothing to do, so d2 will be good for me.

Expect more today, late tomorrow, but in all likelyhood the next day.

[Kison]

i think tywin is town.

I'm still curious to see why you think Tywin is town. Is it the people who pushed him or something about how he's played?

I'll read what you said about Axel more thoroughly when I have time. Which may not be until early next week. Like I get what you're saying about the "talking points" but I want to compare this to how he's played in other games.

Finished PJ's posts. Still don't really get the scum reads on him. Main takeaway from it is all is with how he replaced out it seems really unlikely he & Eddie are scum together.

[CooLDoG]

Why your vote is worthless unless it is on hito.

On Respect, a quite obvious concept in-it-self

Third on Band wagon that was just run up high for zero reason in no time. 21

Hito, votes off the wagon on page 3. 72, and in the next post makes a wild association tell conspiracy, 106

Which is quite silly from a person who took umbridge with Twyll later in 106 for calling the confirmation times scummy at the time at which they did. It is essentially random, to start with, which is his point. Just admit the rvs wagon and ride it or don't. You are calling out the dude who is saying the litteral rvs vote might not be the guy. There is someone more scummy. You voted off the fucking wagon presumably for some reason too! "Why would anyone not question it when half the playerbase sheeped it instantly?". Twyll's 99. It's like, you are saying that the guy saying that people like you making the right play are wrong. It seems to me to be the case that one should at the very least give reasons for the vote. THis is the start of hito's game (the rest I believe I have more or less commented on)...

This is absurd in light of: 321 which is naturally the "prevailing wends" comment of the day. Shouldn't one want to be screaming from the rooftop about why their pet wagon is the best? Instead of maybe calling out friebringer for not being engaged with the game, literally after he says he is sick in bed in 359.

The meat of his post 404 is saying that we ought to go with the prevailing wends now, as opposed to not before, which happened already which he was both a part of and ignored. You seem to be speaking in this post as if the options are "big wagon, or fight better for the wagon I'm on". And you, my good friend, are voting someone who you have not interacted with in 5 irl days... hmmm... although he doth seemed to have flaked. At any rate, unless you can offer substantive proof of why anyone should hop on your bullshit wagon other than, "hurr, it's teh bigger one ya'll" then get out of here. This is the stuff of litterall just going opposite of what you want in your disorganized town comments. It so happens that you are trying to deflect the wagon to a wagon that we all know was really started off on some shaky pretenses. Page the early pages, page 13 is not.

vote hito

[CooLDoG]

srry, the 3rd page reference should be to 124

[CooLDoG]

And the last sentence got screwed by phone as well. What I meant to say, that while page 13 this is not, it seems that the play still stands and hito is holding is tune even though the wagon hasn't gotten anywhere, and he is no longer making significant effort to push it.

[Tammy]

I don't need to be prodded!

I don't have much time tonight, but my goal is to be completely caught up by the end of the weekend. I'm not forgetting to look at firebringer, which I will do as well. I still think that Tywin's slot is the most likely to flip scum, and unless his replacement has been woosville, I can't imagine another slot I'd rather lynch.

[Ginngie]

TAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

[Tammy]

GGGGGGGINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGIEEEEEEEEEE

[Pine]

PIIIINNNEEEEEY

[Firebringer]

KKKIIIIIIISSSSSSSOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!

[Axelrod]

More comprehensive post probably tomorrow at this point. I have a snarky response to rolf, which I'm refraining from posting due to my amazing tact , but the very quick hit is that you are seem to have completely missed the manner in which my suspicion of Eddie shifted over to a suspicion of KMD, and that it's possible to have suspicions of more than one person at the same time. Meanwhile, Pine has still not done anything to make me feel like moving my vote off him, which is why it's still there. "Vote Parking" is a nice big scummy-sounding thing people can say, but it's actually pretty meaningless.

I mean, depending, I

guess.

But I'm not really read up yet, I just skimmed now. So, tomorrow hopefully.

[Pine]

@Mod: Staying in this game is incredibly selfish. I'm not motivated at all, and I'm probably dragging Town down by being useless. I'm going to look for a replacement.

Sorry.

[hitogoroshi]

short post I am sleepy

re: KMD, I don't see MoI's same suspcions of "muzzling the bear" w/r/t the Firebringer town read. He actually seems to have a pretty organic flow on Firebringer town, from not being able to read to liking it when he changed style. And actually on reflection I think that the interactions MoI calls "muzzling the bear" would actually be kind of weird coming from scum-KMD onto MoI town, because that draws a lot of light on to you and I'm not convinced there's much reward. The one sour note reading KMD for me is this post:

Magna, I'm not saying you're pushing policy lynches. It's more that the things you tend to legitimately find scummy are things others would consider policy. You see poor play and think "that must be scum". Your example in that very post about firebringer is exactly what I'm talking about. Does it benefit him as town to lie about being able to read you accurately? No. Does it benefit him as scum to lie about something so easily provable that he's sure to get the reaction from you that he got? Of course not. What's more likely is that he thought he was better at reading you than he is and he was mistaken. Unfortunately that tells us nothing about firebringer's alignment. But you see that he told us something and you can prove it wrong so he must be lying and must be scum.

If only because this is kind of a mirror of my position, BUT KMD actually has Firebringer as a town read and not a eugenics null. But when I read this post it feels like he has my read on Firebringer, not his.

I love rofl's active philanderiing for axel votes but I must rain check offer until at least next real posts from Axel and Lycan. having the second person in the tywin slot also slink away makes me feel pretty good where I'm at still!

once again it kinda seem likes Eddie wants to be seen voting but does not actually care about his vote doin anything. with his snap on me for the comment on the PJ wagon I was thinking "oh, okay, so Eddies got some stuff brewing" but no just a weakass empty vote on rofl?

Rofl I get you solidly scum read Axel and are giving real effort to move votes there. But I don't see that happening at this juncture.

So feel free to continue your push but anyone else you feel is worth a vote that you'd be willing to back as we get closer to deadline.

Okay after reading what I believe to be a really damn good point by roflcopter

(just read their latest post regarding axel's duality situation of pushing one thing but voting the other.

It just fits of pushing mislynches while not being on the wagon directly so you don't get blamed for it type of way.)

I really don't get why you'd say this as well?

There's like 12 days left of deadline?

You're trying to shoot down a wagon with a concern for time when there is no concern for time and I'm reading it as a defense of axel without actually defending him.

are you really posting a post like this with your vote on the claimed IC buckaroo

I am starting to think cooldog is reading my posts through an old timey spyglass or something so he only sees random parts in the middle of the posts. and also maybe vote counts cause uhh

At any rate, unless you can offer substantive proof of why anyone should hop on your bullshit wagon other than, "hurr, it's teh bigger one ya'll" then get out of here. This is the stuff of litterall just going opposite of what you want in your disorganized town comments. It so happens that you are trying to deflect the wagon to a wagon that we all know was really started off on some shaky pretenses. Page the early pages, page 13 is not.

I think you are missing that my wagon

has

been pushed because I offered proof and the people loved it! do you think my wagonmates were just hammering the keyboard with their fucking foreheads and typed tywin/lycan by a stroke of providence or fucking what. Lycanwagon is at L-3 so it's objectively true we got some townies on this wagon. I have clearly succeeded in my stated aims to be happy with and voting on the biggest wagon, so whatever I am, it's ain't a hypocrite. Could I still be scum tricking people with my nefarious ways? Sure. But then

who

am I fooling, and

how

am I fooling them? That's where you should be starting from. but it's clearly nonsense to say the reasoning for my Tywin push

doesn't exist

because if that was so then where did I get all these fuckin votes from??

[Tammy]

I am caught up! Stopped commenting while I was reading because that was taking too long and I was getting annoyed.

I need to reread back through firebringer and kmd though and need to properly read rofl’s Big axel post because trying to understand what he’s saying will take me more than a minute of back and forth reading.

There are a few other things I want to look back at and give my thoughts on things as a whole. That should come this afternoon at some point.

Bye pine

I saw some comments/questions directed at me which I will get to this afternoon as well!

[Eddie Cane]

once again it kinda seem likes Eddie wants to be seen voting but does not actually care about his vote doin anything. with his snap on me for the comment on the PJ wagon I was thinking "oh, okay, so Eddies got some stuff brewing" but no just a weakass empty vote on rofl?

The other PJ votes were gone, no point staying there until Ginngie catches up. I havent had a computer and this game is pretty much impossible to play with quick 15-30 minute work breaks on mobile

[Tammy]

Welp I'm going to ramble a little bit until my other half gets home from work and then I'll come back this afternoon after he passes out.

I do think that in general some of this game is suffering from people being attacked or feeling attacked for their play style or poor play, and in general that's creating an environment where it's harder to get reads and have a pleasant game. Regardless of alignment, people are going to get frustrated and that just confuses the issue. I do think that Magna's frustration looks town and Eddie's frustration looks somewhat town from it. Old Man pretty much gave scum!Magna an out for making bad pushes, and while I do think there'd be some pushback because barely anyone appreciates being attacked in that way, I'm not sure there'd be that much indignation there and continued through the other points of what he pushes. This reasoning felt a lot stronger in my head than when I type it out, but I'm leaning town on Magna anyway so that doesn't matter much really.

For Eddie, it's just the pure reactionary over the top ness of it that I think could be coming from town.

Eddie - What do you teach? Also, you said that you ran Tywin through the Elli program and there was something that could mean town here. I'm not asking you to out the tell, but how strong was that and what do you think about Lycan's posting so far?

Old Man - I don't think that Magna is tunneling on you; he's not trying to lynch you today and he's got other suspects. He's pointing out stuff he thinks is still suspicious because if he's town he doesn't believe your claim, if he's scum he's trying to look like he doesn't believe your claim. But see the thing is, if you are telling the truth and you are a day two IC, none of that matters because you have an ace in the whole. You're going to be confirmed town tomorrow and you can virtual middle finger the entire game who suspected you. So here's what I did when I was an IC once. I wasn't confirmed yet and could pop it at any time, but I was trying to hold off because I wanted to live awhile. But there was a player who thought every one of my posts was scummy or fake or something; I just laughed internally because they were wasting their time. (I also believe I trolled them a bit but I don't recommend that here.) Have you worked on getting your thoughts together on KMD or fire bringer? Maybe try to ignore Magna and focus elsewhere? When I get so irritated with a player I'm getting distracted, I try to stop reading their posts and work out my thoughts on other people.

Magna - I don't think that fire bringer lying about how well he can read you is a scum tell. I've not gone through him; it's on the agenda for this afternoon, but I don't think this is a scum tell in and of itself. I think I mentioned before DGB doing a similar thing to Thor in a crosstown game, and I'm pretty sure both of them got mislynched that game and I think part of it was over the argument that was sparked because Thor thought DGB was lying about her ability to read him. And I was looking for the game that Insanity said we played together in and I'm reminded of other times I've seen it. It's very frustrating because when it's happened to me most often is when some player claims they can read me perfectly, but actually as a bad record of it, and tunnels me while I'm town. Most of the time it's been town doing it because well who knows why they do it, but my point is that town do make that claim all the time while being provably wrong. Scum!firebringer would have to be lying about something he knows can be provably wrong while town!firebringer is using it for emphasis or because he thinks he has a better record than he has. I mean who knows; I just don't think it's a scum tell in and of itself.

Forgot the quotes for Tammy but she said this below
I link this because he's talking about a similar thing that happened in that other game. An RVS wagon that rose up pretty quickly, and there based on a joke, so similarly based on almost nothing as here. Now he does talk about how early RVS wagons are almost always on town, so that's his true feeling, but the way he approached it here just feels so different. There feels like legitimate scum hunting and here feels like synopsis, lectures, incorrect information - he gets wrong who is pushing who, etc, and this just feels over all wrong. And that's what I feel like his posts in general in this game were, a lot of synopsis but no real scum hunting or fire. - Tammy

I don't mean to be a pain in the ass, but could you help me follow where you're going with this?

I think that Tywin is probably scum. The problem with Tywin is that he has in general generically scummy posting. I thought that the way he has approached this game felt more about synopsis than scum hunting. Why I was comparing the two was because in this game there was a quick RVS wagon that formed on Eddie and in that game there was a quick RVS wagon that formed on Nancy Drew. The way he assessed that particular game and the reactions from the wagon was actual scum hunting (though yes I know I know he was town so that colors things.) But here, in this game, he felt like he was more summarizing and lecturing than actually scum hunting.

Do you have experience with either him or Lycanfire?

You've said you're basically caught up but you have given that many thoughts; what are your thoughts?

Also,

Yeah I'll be reading the last like 10 pages privately but consider me caught up enough

Also lol @ the old man for thinking I don't read the scum chat before I start posting in games.

If I was scum, why the fuck would I have even pushed you to begin with if I was told you were an IC beforehand

derp clear DENIED

Cooldog's case on Hito is basically Hito's playing the game so he's scum. Anyway that's how I read it. None of those things are scummy like ever, never have been never will be. My only real concern with Hito is it feels like he's policing votes and lecturing about proper vote play a little too much, which while I'm pretty sure I've read md discussions he's written these are his real thoughts, I sometimes get concerned he's using that as a way to look busy and productive. I don't get that feeling most of the time when I'm reading his other posts though so it's not a huge thing just a bit of a ping.

PJ's case on Eddie was okay. I don't understand why Pine liked it as much as he did. The first half of the case was weak, the last half fine as far as showing a thought process I could understand but didn't it was convincing overall.

Okay be back at some point this afternoon!

[Eddie Cane]

However, what does point to town is a secret general tell I've used Elli's program to test that's been pretty effective in the past.

this doesnt mean I have a tywin tell, it's a general tell that kind of applies to tywin but Lycan is not being town so meh.

what are your thoughts on roflcopter tammy?