Open 725: Jungle Republic - Day 5


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Post Post #875 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 3:59 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

Yeah sure Fumuki but there are some things that you leave for yourself until you get a better case on someone, that's what fluff posts are for. I mean if you actually get scum on an early read but your case is not good enough, either you get in an awful 1v1 or the guy you're scumreading gets townier and your case is dismissed. You have to give scum some space to feel secure, let them post their thoughts and when they don't see it coming...
WHAM

You make a good case on them. Your case on Espe is basically "he doesn't agree with my theory on multiball, which is good theory, so he has different motivations that I have, so he must be Mafia". I mean, the other thing you're saying about him (that he should agree with you since he was Mafia on another multiball so "he should know") it's all based in that you're forcing people to agree with you; either if you're right or wrong, that's bad.

Aside of all the setup theory, where are your reads? Sando disagreed with you first, "Sando is probably scum"; Espeonage disagrees with you, "Espeonage is probably scum". Where are the other players for you? The ones who are not saying anything about your theory at all, or the ones like me who are dismissing it because they really don't give a damn about lynching either Mafia or Wolf?
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Post Post #876 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:00 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 874, Fumuki wrote:How come people are saying that there's "no way" to differentiate Mafia and WW?
Because a lot of that analysis is going to be NK analysis, which hasn't happened yet.
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Post Post #877 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:02 pm

Post by skitter30 »

zzzzzzz

why is this wolf vs mafia argument still going on like five pages later?

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In post 789, Fumuki wrote:You know what guys? I'm maybe changing plans here.

As long as the Seer is alive and he leaves crumbes of who is werewolf and who isn't werewolves, It may be for the best to try lynching Mafia.

When we get the Seer results here we can eliminate the werewolf pool anyway. We deal with them later because I'm not in the mood to lose because WW aren't going to cooperate with town to eliminate the red colored guys.
Uh, didn't you literally like *three posts above this* post stats explaining that the only recent town win happened cuz town lynched the wolves? Why the change of heart after like six pages?

- he won the last jungle republic cuz he hard-bussed a50 and cuz for reasons beyond me people wouldn't lynch the obvscum for four freaking days, who proceeded to kill a townie the last night instead of hitting mafia.

Yeah the mafia won, but like, that wasn't only reason.

And in the last iteration of jungle republic, the first nk was a combo of seer-hunting/mafia-hunting (the nk was literally descirbed as someone who had the potential to be either); the second nk was seer-hunting; the third nk was me cuz if it wasn't I was going to do my damndest for the fourth day in a row to get the wolf lynched and he didn't want to deal with me irregardless of my alignment and I wasn't lynchable at that point; the fourth nk was mafia-hunting but he hit a townie instead.

It isn't accurate to say that the wolves tried to kill townies, because that wasn't really what they were trying to do each night.

--

I don't understand why you want to lynch esp if you think he's mafia given that you spent like a billion pages shouting that we need to lynch wolves.

--

I don't understand the esp case in general tbh. THat last time he let wolves do their own thing and he won as scum so he's scum here for not realizing that wolves are dangerous to town?

I think you're scumreading him for having a different game/set-up philosophy and not something actually scum-indicative tbh.

--
In post 823, Fumuki wrote:
but it'll be kind of apparent if they are shooting for the Seer or if they are trying to hit Mafia,
like, if they shot someone like UD they are totally shooting town, there's a lot of better choices to catch scum right now.
I disagree with this premise (source: first nk of the last iteration of jungle republic)

--
In post 849, Fumuki wrote:What are you even talking about Espeonage? Do you seriously think that in a multiball where Mafia hasn't NK it's just due to your "bussing" that you won?

It too was because the Werewolves had bad reads (and were again hunting the fricking Seer), killing a lot of the town. And when Werewolves suck, we need to try lynching them before they hurt town too much. Either that or focus in lynching Mafia as long as the Seer is alive.
You like weren't in that game, and it's beginning to get annoying to see you use a game prove your point when it doesn't.

-> wolves played horribly and were on the defensive from like page 3 (ie I caught one; proceeded to have a twenty page argument with him; he just *barely* escaped the noose; wolves failed to be on the mafia lynch iirc; wolves failed to kill a scum at night) Basically the only thing they had going for them via dayplay is that I got it into my head that the wolf was mafia and he was able to spin being 'mafia' and not a wolf into not getting lynched for a day

-> scum associatives were really, really, really good. They were able to utilize their numbers at endgame to get a townie lynched.

-> they weren't particularly hunting the seer and like I don't get why you're so fixated on the seer tbh.
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Post Post #878 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:06 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 872, Sando wrote:
In post 870, pinturicchio wrote:Mmmm I actually think there's a conection between those two posts and it is that Espe's frustrated about the gamestate at this point. I feel the same way, so he's trying to cut the conversation. He went in an aggresive manner about the topic, and I believe that he did that not because he really thinks people (aka Fumuki) are stupid, but because he wants to discourage people of talking about said topic. That is pretty consistent.
Ok but I don't really think his original comments were directed at Fumu, in fact he wasn't in the game at that point, but I can see it, next one:

TW seems off this game compared to 720, less jocular, deflecting rather than engaging, that sort of thing. I mean it could be PR vs not PR, but I would expect the opposite in terms of playstyle movement if that were the case.
Yes, I think so too: he seems off compared to any other game that I have played with him, and he was town in all those games. But those things you said (less jocual and deflecting rather than engaging) could be explained on the context of this game being different to those other games; here, he was cased really early on D1 for "being off", so his approach would be different to other games where he was more... let's say, "free as a bird".

What I don't like about Duckling this game is his voting sequence: some of them seems to be rushed and without explanation, even when people is suspecting him, like trying to deviate attention quickly to another wagon.
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Post Post #879 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:10 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 878, pinturicchio wrote:What I don't like about Duckling this game is his voting sequence: some of them seems to be rushed and without explanation, even when people is suspecting him, like trying to deviate attention quickly to another wagon.
From a personal POV it honestly feels like he's ignoring my vote/comments on him due to knowing I don't really trust my D1 scumreads (I've said it often enough in his presence), and so he can safely ignore me today. Hence my comments to you now. But that could well be me just being a wanker and overstating my own stature.
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Post Post #880 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:11 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 877, skitter30 wrote: I think you're scumreading him for having a different game/set-up philosophy and not something actually scum-indicative tbh.
Skitter again dotting the i's and crossing the t's
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Post Post #881 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:13 pm

Post by Fumuki »

In post 875, pinturicchio wrote: Aside of all the setup theory, where are your reads? Sando disagreed with you first, "Sando is probably scum"; Espeonage disagrees with you, "Espeonage is probably scum".
WOAH WOAH WOAH

COME AGAIN PINTU???

I DID SCUM READ SANDO
BEFORE
WE DISAGREEING IN THE SEER THING

PLUS, I did scum read Espeonage NOT ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE HE DISAGREED with me, but because I think the reason he disagreed not only with me just as well with Sando has SCUMMY INTENTIONS.

I'm repeating this for like...the SIXTH time?
Where are the other players for you? The ones who are not saying anything about your theory at all, or the ones like me who are dismissing it because they really don't give a damn about lynching either Mafia or Wolf?
I think everyone said something about the theories about now, and look at that again later to help your case because everyone, be town, mafia or wolf has a intention in saying what they say. It's not NAI.

You guys can or not give a "damn" about lynching either Mafia or Wolf, but I'm looking preferably for Mafia now, although if I get a Wolf read stronger than my Mafia read I'll try to lynch my stronger read of course.

Anyway Pintu, I don't plan to, specially in a multiball, try so quickly putting slots as town or scum. I'm mostly null on everyone. I'm scum reading Espeonage, town leaning UD and MWNN and I don't know what to do with Sando for now, I'll look at him later, and who knows I'll try to push him again. Dunno.

and you? have better reads?
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Post Post #882 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:16 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 879, Sando wrote:
In post 878, pinturicchio wrote:What I don't like about Duckling this game is his voting sequence: some of them seems to be rushed and without explanation, even when people is suspecting him, like trying to deviate attention quickly to another wagon.
From a personal POV it honestly feels like he's ignoring my vote/comments on him due to knowing I don't really trust my D1 scumreads (I've said it often enough in his presence), and so he can safely ignore me today. Hence my comments to you now. But that could well be me just being a wanker and overstating my own stature.
Well, you do overstate your own stature sometimes, but that's a good point. I jammed with the worst earlier and I remember getting good vibes coming from him so I'll have to check out that again, but even if the original, the one and only, the greatest duckling in the world is scummy today, I think we can sort other people before him.

What's your read on skitter, now that you're not 1v1ing her?
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Post Post #883 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:18 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 852, Espeonage wrote:There is a difference between forcing through a lynch on someone with reasoning based on falacies, and lynching someone you actually think is scum. You are doing the former.
Yeah I don't really have a read on esp but I agree with him here. I don't understand the case that's being pushed on him.

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In post 855, Fumuki wrote:It's not possible that after playing it in first-hand Espeonage didn't notice that Werewolves did hurt town A LOT, and if he did notice it, it makes little sense him saying that there's no difference between Werewolves and Mafia.
k, town lost that game because:

-> scum associatives were really really good

-> I let myself get into a 10 page 1v1 with a wolf which made the game impossible for like anyone to read

-> people wouldn't lynch the wolf despite me trying for four days

The wolf nk's really, really didn't impact anything much, besides for like the last night when the wolf needed to shoot mafia to continue the game but hit a townie.

In fact, one of the wolves was *caught on badly speculating on the purpose of the first nk*

Werewolves (and their kills) really didn't hurt town that much that game so can you stop pushing this narrative based on a game you weren't in that you didn't actually read? It's beginning to annoy me.

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In post 860, Espeonage wrote:What I was arguing is that mafia and ww are going to be ridiculously hard to tell apart.
If we all agree lynching town is worse than lynching scum.

Then isn't it the most obvious thing in the world that we prioritise lynching scum. And that by inhibiting your pool to your own interpretation of how one side will act, you increase the chance of a misslynch.
Yes, this basically

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In post 869, Sando wrote:
In post 865, skitter30 wrote:lynching scum *in general* isn't nearly as easy as you're making it out to be and just saying 'we're going to lynch wolves today and tomorrow' like isn't going to make that happen and I'll be happy to just lynch not-town.
You had me up till here, but 7 v 5 is significantly better odds than town normally get D1, I think blind luck here is better lynch percentage than regular games where they actually scumhunt?
I mean, yes, the odds of finding scum better than singleball if you pick a name out of a hat but what I meant is that in general scum lynches tend to have resistance, so even if you find scum it's not necessarily possible to get them lynched.

source: last jungle republic, sigh

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In post 871, Fumuki wrote:Like I said, most scum tells and all comes from the fact that scum generally feel themselves as "outsiders"
I don't see why this doesn't apply here

--
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In post 878, pinturicchio wrote:What I don't like about Duckling this game is his voting sequence: some of them seems to be rushed and without explanation, even when people is suspecting him, like trying to deviate attention quickly to another wagon.
Yes, I was getting the same vibe

yay I'm in real time again
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Post Post #884 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:20 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 881, Fumuki wrote:
In post 875, pinturicchio wrote: Aside of all the setup theory, where are your reads? Sando disagreed with you first, "Sando is probably scum"; Espeonage disagrees with you, "Espeonage is probably scum".
WOAH WOAH WOAH

COME AGAIN PINTU???

I DID SCUM READ SANDO
BEFORE
WE DISAGREEING IN THE SEER THING

PLUS, I did scum read Espeonage NOT ESSENTIALLY BECAUSE HE DISAGREED with me, but because I think the reason he disagreed not only with me just as well with Sando has SCUMMY INTENTIONS.

I'm repeating this for like...the SIXTH time?
Where are the other players for you? The ones who are not saying anything about your theory at all, or the ones like me who are dismissing it because they really don't give a damn about lynching either Mafia or Wolf?
I think everyone said something about the theories about now, and look at that again later to help your case because everyone, be town, mafia or wolf has a intention in saying what they say. It's not NAI.

You guys can or not give a "damn" about lynching either Mafia or Wolf, but I'm looking preferably for Mafia now, although if I get a Wolf read stronger than my Mafia read I'll try to lynch my stronger read of course.

Anyway Pintu, I don't plan to, specially in a multiball, try so quickly putting slots as town or scum. I'm mostly null on everyone. I'm scum reading Espeonage, town leaning UD and MWNN and I don't know what to do with Sando for now, I'll look at him later, and who knows I'll try to push him again. Dunno.

and you? have better reads?
1. Maybe I didn't express myself clear: that's how it feels, Fumu. It feels like you scumread whoever disagree with your setup theory. You've engaged only the people who have replied your theory; this is like, the first time you engage with me? And I've been here, AP has been here too.

2. Yea sure you do you, if you have better than average reads and can differentiate between two factions on D1, that's great. I don't.

3. If you read my ISO you'll clearly see what I'm doing, who I am reading and what strategy I'm following.
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Post Post #885 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:23 pm

Post by Fumuki »

In post 877, skitter30 wrote:
Uh, didn't you literally like *three posts above this* post stats explaining that the only recent town win happened cuz town lynched the wolves? Why the change of heart after like six pages?

I don't understand why you want to lynch esp if you think he's mafia given that you spent like a billion pages shouting that we need to lynch wolves.
BECAUSE NO ONE AGREED WITH MY POINT, THEN IT MEANS THAT WOLFS DIDN'T AGREE WITH THE PLAN, AND THEY ARE SHOOTING TOWN

AND IF I LET THEM JUST SHOT TOWN, MAFIA WILL APPROACH MAJORITY

WHEN MAFIA GETS TOO CLOSE TO TOWN NUMBERS WE'RE RUINED

THEN I NEED TO DO WEREWOLVES JOB TRYING TO LYNCH MAFIA AND BALANCING THINGS

IT'S RATHER STRESSING, I'M ALMOST GIVING UP

NO WAIT, I ACTUALLY GIVE UP
I don't understand the esp case in general tbh. THat last time he let wolves do their own thing and he won as scum so he's scum here for not realizing that wolves are dangerous to town?

I think you're scumreading him for having a different game/set-up philosophy and not something actually scum-indicative tbh.
You think in a way and I think in another way, that is that he realized it but it's not commenting about it on purpose

By the way skitter, what is actually "scum-indicative" here?
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Post Post #886 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:25 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 882, pinturicchio wrote:I think we can sort other people before him.

What's your read on skitter, now that you're not 1v1ing her?
I'm comfy with that.

I've felt sandwiched by skitter tbh, where pretty much anything I do is going to get twisted as scummy. I think that's bad town, but again, probably because I toot my own horn a bit much. It's a strategy that won't work on me to get my mislynched, so I'm sticking with town. I don't think the above "oh geez we're STILL talking about this" comes from scum either.

AP, skitter, and Fumu are townie to me
Pintu, CJ, MWNN are my list of townie enough to not be today's lynch.
Espe, TW in my lynchlist with UD bringing up the rear there
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Post Post #887 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:26 pm

Post by the worst »

someone sum up the war of the wall posts for me?
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Post Post #888 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:26 pm

Post by Fumuki »

In post 883, skitter30 wrote:
The wolf nk's really, really didn't impact anything much, besides for like the last night when the wolf needed to shoot mafia to continue the game but hit a townie
You get that it came to that point
because
the wolf night kills impacted the game by reducing town and letting mafia reach majority/half the players right?

Anyway, I don't even want to talk about this anymore

I'M SHEEPING THE NEXT PERSON THAT MAKES A GOOD CASE

YOU'VE GOT MY ATTENTION GUYS
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Post Post #889 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:27 pm

Post by Sando »

In post 887, the worst wrote:someone sum up the war of the wall posts for me?
No change
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Post Post #890 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:28 pm

Post by Fumuki »

In post 889, Sando wrote:
In post 887, the worst wrote:someone sum up the war of the wall posts for me?
No change
SANDO, THE MAN
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Post Post #891 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:28 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 885, Fumuki wrote:By the way skitter, what is actually "scum-indicative" here?
Being duplicitous or opportunistic or taking positions because they're convenient and not necessarily because you believe them. Being fake. Having bad associatives with flipped scum.

I don't think that having a different philosphy towards multiball than me is inherently scummy.
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Post Post #892 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:29 pm

Post by Espeonage »

Fumuki is wrong.

Pin, skitter, and myself would like to play mafia.

@worst
Don't @ me.
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Post Post #893 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:31 pm

Post by skitter30 »

In post 888, Fumuki wrote:
In post 883, skitter30 wrote:
The wolf nk's really, really didn't impact anything much, besides for like the last night when the wolf needed to shoot mafia to continue the game but hit a townie
You get that it came to that point
because
the wolf night kills impacted the game by reducing town and letting mafia reach majority/half the players right?

Anyway, I don't even want to talk about this anymore

I'M SHEEPING THE NEXT PERSON THAT MAKES A GOOD CASE

YOU'VE GOT MY ATTENTION GUYS
THE FIRST NIGHT THEY TRIED TO SHOOT FOR MAFIA.
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Post Post #894 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:31 pm

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In post 889, Sando wrote:
In post 887, the worst wrote:someone sum up the war of the wall posts for me?
No change
:fire emoji:
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Post Post #895 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:35 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

In post 886, Sando wrote:
In post 882, pinturicchio wrote:I think we can sort other people before him.

What's your read on skitter, now that you're not 1v1ing her?
I'm comfy with that.

I've felt sandwiched by skitter tbh, where pretty much anything I do is going to get twisted as scummy. I think that's bad town, but again, probably because I toot my own horn a bit much. It's a strategy that won't work on me to get my mislynched, so I'm sticking with town. I don't think the above "oh geez we're STILL talking about this" comes from scum either.

AP, skitter, and Fumu are townie to me
Pintu, CJ, MWNN are my list of townie enough to not be today's lynch.
Espe, TW in my lynchlist with UD bringing up the rear there
Ok I get your frustration, but now you think she's town and that's great.

What's not so great is that our reads are not matching: don't really care about scumreads, but your townreads are weird: why AP and Fumu?

My townreads at this moment are Sando, skitter, UD and myself, so hit me up to see who wants to be which Beatle (I know I know, but someone has to be Ringo). MWNN is Brian Epstein and I'm looking for our George Martin. It's pretty obvious that the Seer will be Ravi Shankar when confirmed.
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Post Post #896 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:36 pm

Post by Fumuki »

In post 891, skitter30 wrote:
In post 885, Fumuki wrote:By the way skitter, what is actually "scum-indicative" here?
Being duplicitous or opportunistic or taking positions because they're convenient and not necessarily because you believe them. Being fake. Having bad associatives with flipped scum.
Hmmm...

I agree
somewhat
opportunism. Agree with associatives however...they are kind sketchy....

But skitter, reconsider a little "being fake", because like I said, scum really may end up feeling more like scum masons than true "scums" that know all the alignments and know that they are lying when say that X person seems scummy to them.
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Post Post #897 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:37 pm

Post by pinturicchio »

Actually, the first one who dies on my townbloc will be considered Brian Epstein, and I'm afraid that our beloved townbloc will disolve far before it should because of our grief :(
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Post Post #898 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:37 pm

Post by skitter30 »

zzzzzzz this argument is also becoming boring and annoying

I think the case against esp is stupid.

I want to lynch in {sando/the worst} with a side of ud and I'll probably compromise on ceejay or nm at deadline if necessary.

I don't want to lynch pin/mwnn. I was townreading draynth. Fumuki is losing that townread but I think that's out of annoyance but I don't want to lynch them because of draynth.

I don't really have a read on ap, esp, or nm, and I think that's everyone.
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Fumuki
Fumuki
Mafia Scum
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Fumuki
Mafia Scum
Mafia Scum
Posts: 1687
Joined: April 2, 2018

Post Post #899 (ISO) » Tue May 22, 2018 4:38 pm

Post by Fumuki »

In post 893, skitter30 wrote:THE FIRST NIGHT THEY TRIED TO SHOOT FOR MAFIA.
OMG YOU USE CAPS AS WELL?

HELL YEAHHHHHHHHHH

ANYWAY, THEY TRIED BUT FAILEDDDD

IT HURTS TOWN ANYWAY AND BENEFITS MAFIA ANYWAY

I WANT RED FLIPS ANYWAY

AND I WANT TO SHEEP SOMEONE
(As known as Shirou aka Lazy Shirou aka Bunno aka Churros aka Rainn aka Buki aka Nibbui aka Volpe14)

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