Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[davesaz]

VOTE: Zoronos
Convenient, you're the person before me in the list and in the thread.

[davesaz]

Oh look, it went from nothing useful happening to 7 pages behind. I'm at the bottom of 8 which has been more interesting than 7 was.

[davesaz]

So for real, tell me about dave? Is he lurking, active lurking, is this normal/abnormal coming from him, should we worry or is too early to know?

Burning the candle at both ends in a fashion -- 6am conference calls some days, worked a post graduation party for the kiddos till past midnight last night.

[davesaz]

@NSG I didn't

really

understand this until it came up in a game I was modding, but even mentioning the existence of an ongoing can be troublesome.

[davesaz]

Because I think your strategy is kind of optimal

solution: lynch all lurkers

i'm only half-joking with this, by the way. if we want to use the "let scum incriminate themselves" strategy, then naked voting lurkers up to a decently sized wagon serves to get them to post more while also not necessarily revealing the reasons behind a scumread.

I'm opposed to LaL on the principle that it picks up too many people who got jammed at work / school / lost internet etc.
Besides, I have better luck using it selectively based on meta and with an eye to motivation.
There is even a strategy of purposeful lurking to fish for scum.

[davesaz]

It's probably a combination of me not being able to be particularly active and you viewing my past day 1s through the lens of hindsight

Also I've hardly said jack shit in terms of reads

If this is you saying that you don't expect to be townread yet, have you noticed anyone who seems to townread you too easily so far?

[davesaz]

VOTE: Zoronos
Convenient, you're the person before me in the list and in the thread.

By the way, does anybody knows this guy?

Lol that makes sense, I think I got a little late to this site to know what Team Mafia was, I still don't know much about that.

So for real, tell me about dave? Is he lurking, active lurking, is this normal/abnormal coming from him, should we worry or is too early to know?

I think I've read him in another game but can't recall, but have a feeling that he's a strong player and a replacement this early is no fun. I mean, replacements are not fun in general, but dave has no content whatsoever so it would be like starting the game 2 days later

I think this is probably town posting.

[davesaz]

Oooooh shit sorry you were not pushing him on purpose, that makes perfect sense

No worries. It was a very valid question, and being transparent about it is more valuable than a 'super secret special tell'.
MD suspicion is my back pocket read; I wanted to wait a bit more for him to engage the game before pursuing it.

My current head scratch is the wagon on the_worst. Something about it feels off, but I'm frankly not sure what or even where to begin picking it apart.
Blackstar seems mostly legit but his commitment to it was pretty low; he hopped off to chase ofhrz for voting on him (I asked about his 'gross' comment earlier). He town read HitAlt so +1'ing HitAlt's vote isn't super surprising.
HitAlt hadn't really conversed with the_worst much about AI things (that I picked up on) prior to the vote, so it looked a bit like the read came from nowhere. He explained later, but I'm not totally sure I buy it.

I don't know yet, my gut doesn't like it, but I'm not sure which part or why.

Just to confirm, you're talking about HitAlt in the last sentence there?

[davesaz]

I didn't mentally track wagon size -- saw some comments about a wagon on the worst like the one quoted in my previous post, wondering how big it got.

[davesaz]

Ruru please explain your ofrhz vote.

[davesaz]

I was definitely being opportunitistic. I saw a chance to get a wagon going on someone scummy and I jumped. By the way, answering your questions helped me to realize more stuff about ofrhz that I didn't think about before

Lean town on this.

[davesaz]

Zoronos has your worst read changed?

[davesaz]

Ruru please explain your ofrhz vote.

It's likely on scum

That's nice, please explain the read.

[davesaz]

I'm actually not a huge fan of HWS or the numerosaurus because none of their reads have jumped out ahead of thread consensus so far.

Do you often use "new idea" to mean "town" when reading people?

Davesaz doesn't really (yet) seem to be pushing new content into the mix but he also doesn't have a lot of posts,

These questions I'm asking, and the answers they are supposed to generate, are new content

so I'm circling on those three waiting for them to do something to get a better eval.

I see the three people you're talking about as being completely different. I was explicitly not here, HWS and Mathdino did very different things so far. What's the connection in your mind that makes you put this list together. Furthermore are there other people with similar low contribution? I suspect there are having skimmed to keep up, but interested to know what you think.

I don't know what to do about Something_Smart or JJH yet. That said, if I am suspicious of MD that leads me to lower suspicion value on JJH since scumsaurus is less likely to say 'Yeah, JJH will be obvtown eventually' about his partner.

IIRC, JJH said something rather specific about how he's approaching the game -- what did you think about that?
As far as I know, MD has a lot of experience playing with JJH, for you how does that affect what he said about future JJH expectations?

[davesaz]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Mathdino is one of the players that for me will be a contra read.
When they're town they do things that make me think they're scum trying to control the situation.
I get paranoid of players like that because one of my early games after moving to this site was a lylo loss to scum leading town.

Here's the contra part. Since he is usually controlling to the point I think he's scum, if he's not doing that it likely means he's scum.
VOTE: Mathdino

[davesaz]

The Mathdino I know power towns.
Votes have multiple purposes.
Why categorize it as lazy? I see it as thought provoking.

[davesaz]

Lazy would be ruru refusing to answer my question. In fact I can’t decide if voting me is more a diversion from my question or a chainsaw.

[davesaz]

Since you asked me about my impression of other people's meta reads, let's go here:

i had my thoughts on mathdino typed up in the beginnings of a post going over all of my scumreads that i deleted, but basically he's in the lower tier for me right now mostly as a formality. he hasn't had much of a presence as of yet and i know that's more of a sitewide thing than a "this game" thing, but i still couldn't justify townreading him as of now.

His activity isn't really AI right? I feel like his scum meta that I've read previously was like all power wolfing

Also I mean we're not wagoning the dinosaur d1 right like who does that

Ruru said she feels like the numerosauros's scum meta is power wolfing.
Do you feel ruru is lying, misinformed, or otherwise how does that square with your impressions?

I see it as immaterial for two reasons.
Our history with Mathdino is disjoint, and with no games in common it's possible we're both right.
I'm making a statement about MD's town meta. When town he's pushy and controlling. If he's not doing that I think he's likely to be scum.
In that sense my read is not about matching scum meta, it's about not matching town meta. There is a difference.

[davesaz]

Dave seems kinda like a jerk but that might be town full of himself, but frustration /anger is the easiest emotion to fake so it might be a scum front to avoid cooperating with town. Cooperation is towny imo.

Umm, where'd you get that from?

[davesaz]

Ruru please explain your ofrhz vote.

It's likely on scum

That's nice, please explain the read.

Still expecting this explanation.

[davesaz]

The Mathdino I know power towns.
Votes have multiple purposes.
Why categorize it as lazy? I see it as thought provoking.

Nah your read was lazy. It was like this weird "He fooled me and I'm wrong alot so AH HA!"
It takes only the input of posting activity, self-sabotages your credibility (I always read him wrong ergo...), then comes up with a scum read.
Like, I have non-zero MathDino suspicion right now, but your case was very meh.

You're confused about something.
Town Mathdino triggers my "scum leading town" tell. Now that I've picked up on that, if he were acting that way I'd think he is town.
There exist players you have to apply opposite logic to, he's one of them.

Talk to me about other reasons why MathDino might be scum.
Or if we're feeling spicy, talk to me about why TheWorst might be scum.

I'm not currently super sympathetic to a ruru-scum case though.

The other reasons will need to wait -- in fact there is still sorting to be done there. Votes have multiple uses. As far as I know he has not returned to this game despite being heavily active.
I don't currently think The Worst is likely to be scum.

Do you think refusing to give reasons for scumreads and votes is towny?

[davesaz]

You are very confrontational and don't seem to give a shit about thread consensus. Which is maybe fine, game could use some shakeups.
You're all 'rawr I think ruru is scum for ~reasons~ even though everyone else seems sold on towniness'.
Like, of all the ofhrz votes, why ruru's to question? If I were scum hunting on that wagon, I'd likely poke mathdino.

Think there are multiple scum on the wagon? Because you're voting one person on the wagon (dino) and questioning a second.

Maybe that's exactly why I'm asking these questions. I don't see it as confrontational though. I don't think I've even been impolite.

I looked at Mathdino in ISO, was surprised by what I saw, and voted there to stir the coals a bit. It's not prompted by the ofhrz vote at all, it's prompted by his overall content. Didn't expect that to evoke a strong reaction from anyone, and instead two 3rd parties decided it was necessary to jump in.

The question to ruru is a very simple one. It was a naked vote, and I'd like to have some explanation. I usually ask for explanations of naked votes. When I ask for explanations and the response is diversionary, it's a huge red flag.

[davesaz]

Nobody plays every game exactly the same way.

[davesaz]

I have never played in a game with ruru.
The MD games that ruru has seen are not the same MD games that I have seen.
The sets are disjoint, there is no comparison between them.
And yes, I would be hugely surprised if MD played every scum game the same way. Multiple metas are a given, else he'd get lynched every time as scum. This is mafia 101...

[davesaz]

I see that them having both been on the ofhrz wagon could be concerning, if that were an actual reason. But in fact I looked at activity to get the Mathdino lead. I get most of my leads on players I know by differences from past games, and then digging into the difference to find out if it's AI or not. If it's someone I don't know, I have to ask questions to determine what they think, and then see if what they say about what they think matches the behavior. This is why my approaches to MD and ruru are different, and previous wagon composition is merely a coincidence.

At least I'm getting a decent handle on you.

Pedit: MD has been controlling in every single town game I've ever seen. He's even tried to control my town game when we were on a team together in Team Mafia. Therefore not controlling is a huge difference and it needs to be investigated.

[davesaz]

I think NSG's points on JJH around 192 and 198 are good. (typing post numbers from memory, if these land in the wrong place it will be +/- a few posts)
I'm a little uneasy about her not pursuing that thread, and wonder how it got resolved.

[davesaz]

Orfcz+duck are scum btw.
More certain of the duck.

VOTE: the worse

When you get back please explain this.

[davesaz]

@NSG can you explain how you townread ruru?

[davesaz]

I'm having trouble seeing why others are seeing town motivation in ruru's posting.

[davesaz]

I have never played in a game with ruru.
The MD games that ruru has seen are not the same MD games that I have seen.
The sets are disjoint, there is no comparison between them.

I've never played with scum.Md, but I

have

read some of his meta

I'm not going to let you just activity tell him d1 when he's

clearly

capable of accurately mimicking that part of his towngame as scum and it serves no benefit for scum.him to lurk here.

The most obvious explanation is that he's busy outside of game or maybe he just doesn't feel like posting because the game is full of awful posts of the form "lol thE dinOsaur is luRkinG He Must be scUm xD!"

He's not getting lynched for lurking today and I'd be happy to policy lynch you over it until you do something useful with your vote. This is even noting that the dinosaur hasn't towntold at all fmpov and you could easily be scum lazily scumreading your scum partner here.

I'd rather not have several days pass and then end up in a situation like "oh davesaz voted uselessly for the first half of the game, I wonder if he's scum or if he's just

that

antitown" because that precise situation happened with lurker scum in my last game

What's your stance on ofrhz?

You still have not answered my question

VOTE: ruru

[davesaz]

Oh, to answer your question.

newbtown.

[davesaz]

Ruru stop WKing me lol

I'm not wking you, I have no real reason to believe you're town either

I just think davesaz's vote was bad

I don't think scum.him votes me here though and sring me over the interactions he had with me since he started actually posting is probably consistent with town unaware of meta / possibly not really reading the thread

Seriously though, if you could

please

explain the vote I asked you about?
People don't get to be town without explaining their scumreads.

[davesaz]

My problem with Daveasz was his push on ruru. The questions felt largely answerable from reading the thread, imo. Maybe I'm being insufficiently generous here, but I feel pretty okay in my town ruru read, and my assessment of their vote on ofhrz was 'Not malicious, maybe misguided', and especially in the context of the other things ruru has written it just felt like an odd choice to specifically call out that vote, from amongst all the naked-vote options to chose.

Show me a single post where ruru gives a

reason

to scumread ofhrz.
That's the question that ruru absolutely refuses to answer.
Not answering it is unacceptable. Without the info I can't properly read

either

of the slots.

[davesaz]

This:

What's your stance on ofrhz?

Is the reason for this:

You still have not answered my question

VOTE: ruru

The post is even quoted in the vote post.
I fail to see how anyone could read that and not know what it's about.

[davesaz]

OK maybe I missed a post.

Followup: how is my thinking Mathdino is failing to obvtown (by the MD standard of town) any different than you thinking ofhrz is failing to obvtown?

[davesaz]

Because Md is known to be able to mimic certain aspects of his towngame, specifically the ones you were talking about (activity/forcefulness)

That's nice, but I'm asking about how you're reading me.
I play town my way, by looking for things that are different.
I also actually explain what I'm seeing, because if I'm right I might be the only one seeing it and possibly town's only hope.

[davesaz]

LHF? Can't say I'm familiar with that one.

[davesaz]

Non game related but why do you think you can't explain because of the site rules? Are you perhaps misreading them? Because anything from past games that are now finished is fine.

Nevertheless thanks for the answers.

Going into this further would risk breaking that very rule.
For now you can safely drop that as a question, thanks.

[davesaz]

Two followups:
Do you feel she has fully answered your question to your satisfaction, or did she give you the runaround?
Based on her answer, how do you read those slots now?

I didn't have a

strong

read on either slot.
I'm not really sure if I liked the answer or not. I had time to see it, but didn't really have time to process it fully.

Hey, Daveasz, what's the current state of your MathDino read? He has, to my eyes, become more engaged with the game in the time since you wrote your case on him. Has MathDino's recent posting changed your mind or reinforced original suspicion?

Somewhat tempered toward null but also with the recognition that an adaption to his play in the game could be an attempt to improve his standing and not truly natural.

I should perhaps fill you in that my reads are rarely strong before the first scumflip.

[davesaz]

That math read was mightly hedged, and still rested on a bad meta core.

I voted MD. I stated that votes have multiple purposes. What made you think it was a solid read?
MD is one of the players that I'm sure about alignment only after a flip, and I read the flip twice to be sure. I don't think I'm trying to hide that at all.

I feel bad yelling 'answers now!' so I guess I won't, but I'd really like the answer to my first question which you obviously did not give. Take your time, but come back and answer.

Thanks. I said in my reply that I hadn't had time to look beyond there being an answer, and I appreciate it when people respect that kind of RL statement.
Ruru has done other things beyond that point (namely actually giving reasons for things ) that say weak town to me.
I had a strong newb read on ofrhz, and still have a newb read there. It's not an iso that yells SCUM KILL IT which is why I wanted to know what was up with the wagon.

[davesaz]

Within a category, roughly equal. Gaps between categories are pretty small. Caveat that my d1 reads are average at best, perhaps not even that.

davesaz

Zoronos - Actively looking to determine everyone's alignment

ruru - I had some reservations about ofrhz push being on LHF, now resolved with explanation. Looks like sorting behavior.
HitAlt - Gut read not backed by either meta nor real evidence
BlackStar - This is kinda vague, mostly gut but interactions with other players seemed to not be hiding anything. TBH don't remember if it's more inquisitive or just responsive.

Something_Smart These three players
northsidegal are people I

know

I could be fooled by
Mathdino so they get places of honor in the middle

jjh927 - Are these reads manipulative or on point? Hard enough to tell and goes in weak scum pile because manipulative is a possibility
ofrhz - Would be null if slightly newer player. I finally see the reason some people are calling this scum. Tempered by occasional townish responses.
the worst - I see the reasons there are scumreads here. TBH this could just be town with bad reads and bad reactions.

HeWhoSwims - Meta read from a game we were scum together. I do not have any town meta to compare to, nor time to meta dive.
pinturicchio - I will feel bad if RL is the real cause of the issues here. But it felt scum before that point.

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

[davesaz]

The not posting much was the meta case lol

Holy pedit!

[davesaz]

Pintu's: your logic is based almost entirely on how scumleaning someone lynchbaity is scummy, which is invalid because town scumlean lynchbait all the time.

My logic is based on how he hasn't said absolutely nothing about me and he drops the bomb saying I was already scummy before IRL reasons, in order to get a vote on me without repercussions. It's not the same of what you're saying.

I was going to finish catching up and then go back to your other post, but this one will do just as well.

In that post I was speaking about present day look at previous posting.
I had not done a concentrated readthrough before that point in the thread.

[davesaz]

And I reached the end of the thread and realized you've moved your vote.
I find it somewhat interesting that none of the rest of my reads post got much attention.

[davesaz]

HWS's recent posting intensified the scumread.

[davesaz]

He seems to be holding back, not committing to any scumreads nor rocking the boat until there is something that suits his purposes.

[davesaz]

He seems to be holding back, not committing to any scumreads nor rocking the boat until there is something that suits his purposes.

This pretty much describes me too, what's the difference?

I disagree, you're doing some things that I see as trying to sort people.

[davesaz]

The whole ‘town hero’ bit at the end struck me as a bit over the top.

If you're town, and you're the only person who sees something, and you fail to explain it, and town loses, you gamethrew.
That is and always will be my opinion. This has nothing to do with being a hero. The only right way to play town is to explain stuff.
Even when it's gut and all I have is gut, then I say that's what it is.
There is exactly one reason I can think of that might be an exception -- a PR result where you have a reasonable expectation of living long enough to get another result.

Now given that philosophy, if someone has a mysterious read D1 and refuses to explain it, they're scum. (exception being a town read in a mason game)

[davesaz]

Concerned that I'm only explicitly townreading one person on that wagon.

[davesaz]

jjh is below the would lynch line for me despite the wagon composition concern.

[davesaz]

Find another vote for JJH and I’ll declare intent / hammer.

I suspect you missed the post where I said I'm willing.
Would you like that before or after this conversation with S_S?

[davesaz]

No CC from me.
Can I interest you in HWS?

[davesaz]

Unless you're willing to accept a NL, we're in deadline range of not fooling around any more.

[davesaz]

Let's not put anyone except jjh anywhere near hammer until HWS tells us jjh's alignment

And if HWS just doesn't post for the next 24 hours, then what?
My comment was serious.

[davesaz]

VC please

[davesaz]

hypo-inno Mathdino.

That data is hella useful. Gonna take me a bit to digest.
Pedit: it certainly generates content fast.

[davesaz]

What would you say the jailkeeper would ideally do?

I find voting for this d1 to be highly suspicious (ofrhz, davesaz)

Y tho

This wasn't meant as a crumb but it seems people picked it up as such

I read it as really weak fishing.

[davesaz]

JJH voted: BlackStar, pinturicchio, The Worst, Zoronos

Voting JJH: NSG, The Worst, ruru, BlackStar, HWS, ofrhz, Mathdino, pinturicchio

[davesaz]

BTW I did that list manually while listening to a meeting, so there's a chance I missed someone.

[davesaz]

Mathdino should be able to meta townread me on my posting this game 100%.
Granted I'm gonna look bad association wise. That happens to town all the time. Whatever... On mobile now and thus posting is crippled.

[davesaz]

The answer to 2 is that he's going strictly by association (which looks bad and I know it) and ignoring my posting.

The answer to 1 is that I haven't had enough RL time post-flip to have a clue. It's gonna take me at least an uninterrupted RL hour, or several hours of interrupted time.

[davesaz]

You should be able to meta TR me off team mafia plus other games we've been town together. No research should be necessary.
VOTE: Mathdino

[davesaz]

That's a fuck you death tunnel btw.

[davesaz]

I'm gonna ignore this till my blood pressure drops a bit.

[davesaz]

@davesaz Can you post reads as well?

Not while l-2. Refused.

[davesaz]

I started out pumped to work on solving it, and y'all hit me with freezing water balloons. Still not happy or very motivated. That's a statement of fact, not an AtE, so don't even think about it. The difference is whether it's fake or not. Absolutely not fake. Ask MD what I wanted to do in the TM game when people started dumping crap on me.

The associations look bad but I'm still town. If townies can't recognize the neon signs during D1 that I don't know anyone's alignment, then just lynch me and get it over with. I tend to not put effort into things that nobody cares about.

Strong/weak refers to how much work is needed on the read, not how strongly/weakly town/scum.
I know that probably sounds weird... Example Mathdino is a medium town but it's a weak read. HitAlt and BlackStar are null and weak reads, etc.

davesaz (strong duh - the role PM can't be wrong)
HeWhoSwims - un-cc'd PR, would be weak read without that.

Zoronos (strong)
ruru (medium)
Mathdino (weak)

HitAlt (weak, really need to examine motivation which is very hard to get a handle on here)
BlackStar (weak)


ofrhz (must re-examine in light of flips)
the worst (weak)

pinturicchio (medium)

I've got plenty of other things I can do. Show me why I need to care about this.

[davesaz]

Shade is not going to get you anywhere with me.

HWS's play, upon re-evaluation as a PR, is town. The read itself would be weak in terms of lack of evidence (other than the claim itself). Pre-claim PR's sometimes go out of their way to look like scum, though I don't think this is the case.

MD vote remains as long as he's voting me. MD town cannot vote me, and claim to not be able to recognize me given the town games we've played. I can vote for scum after wagon moves to scum.

[davesaz]

I'm trying to be as transparent as possible about not really being up to date. The aforementioned hours haven't been available yet. I'm on my phone now and it would be very difficult to do anything extensive.

[davesaz]

@MOD please update the alive/dead lists in the OP.

[davesaz]

Votes have multiple purposes.

For example the purpose loosely defined as slapping someone with a fish to make them rethink.

UNVOTE:

In other news, I got busy over the weekend with my family asking me to do stuff.
I'm the only driver, and my wife plus two teens adds up to a shitton of running all over the place.

[davesaz]

this was the interaction

Spoiler:

I see that MathDino isn't cleared yet either. (although I still enjoy their posting very much)
Good for us in the end I think.
Scum will have to show some of their hand when they kill if we refuse to lock anyone as town.

Tell me when you guys agree that the worst can be lynched today, and I'll be around to unvote at L-1. (???)

Preflips are bad, Math voting me is questionable, I don't know what IIoA means and the worst is still a really good lynch rn

incorrect and we need to focus elsewhere

also

╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮

You're still on ofhrz, which is still bad and one of the main reasons I scumread you

Who else do you think is scum

Have you read my posts? srs quessun

Have you read my posts? srs quessun

Yeah, but there's a lot of shit and I don't remember you saying who you scumread recently and an iso glance suggests that I'm right.

Who do you scumread that's not ofhrz

OK if you've read my recent posts I'm not sure why you'd bother asking me that question. If anyone probably you rn tbh

and it's shit and you can do better and you can also do better than your last one

You can do better than voting town

I don't think town avoids finding scum like you've been doing

I'm voting my strongest scumread ATM and have been putting about as much energy into this game as I can muster d1. I feel like I've been pretty open about how turned off this game I am and frankly who the fuck are you to BoP or criticise my playstyle?

VOTE: jjh927 flips red

Is that an ATE OMGUS combo

... oh now I understand why nsg was SvS-reading this (assuming she knew no daytalk)

I agree with NSG but not to the extent that I can distinguish between it really being SvS and just town being really salty at a totally bogus mislynch attempt.
Definitely possible SvS.

To-do: who came first, jjh or someone else? That will help with determining if it's really SvS. If you understand where I'm coming from here and have more time than I do then be my guest. If you don't understand, welcome to the mysteries of how town Dave operates.

[davesaz]

What do you mean by 'who came first'?

I can do legwork but you need to be more specific about what you're trying to find.

There are 3 people in the nsg quote.
worst wagon, hitalt wagon (was there even a hitalt wagon?); was jjh early or late on said wagons... or maybe on, off, back on?

[davesaz]

When I read through the context of the stuff that NSG pointed out, along with the period between JJH and HWS claims, TW looks like he got caught too far into a cross-bus and couldn't disengage. The wagon dynamics back that up, and they each expressed strong scumreads on the other.

Still have some reservations though, it's easy to find that type of relationship when looking for it. For an example of how easy it is to get it wrong I need look no farther than my "inaction due to lack of time" and how it gets misread...

[davesaz]

Oh BTW if Mathdino's vca post is correct, HitAlt has not been voted by anyone D1. That's mildly interesting.

[davesaz]

Open question: who am I trying to case in my recent posting.

[davesaz]

I read the upside down (and backwards) stuff mentally.
Pedit: lot happened while I had to do an urgent off-computer activity.

[davesaz]

What's the point of 1852?

[davesaz]

If I'm the only one legitimately scumreading you then why are you arguing with the others

Can't tell who this was to.

[davesaz]

What's the point of 1852?

I thought it was a funny sequence

Funny haha or funny someone's scummy?

[davesaz]

the only player who seems to be legitimely reading me as scum, even if she's wrong, is ruru.

I don't think this is true. Though to be honest I have not been keeping mental track so I could be wrong.

[davesaz]

Not Voting: HeWhoSwims, HitAlt, Zoronos, davesaz, BlackStar,

Tfw I can't policy lynch 5 people

8 days left on deadline is not the time to be yammering about this.

pedit: me too

[davesaz]

Open question: who am I trying to case in my recent posting.

Thanks for answers.
Why hasn't anyone commented either way on the case itself?

[davesaz]

Who

The case is that tw vs jjh was svs through and through. Possibly with a side of hitalt.

Hint: remove me from consideration and a solve is much easier.

[davesaz]

I think that the posts inside this

this was the interaction

Spoiler:

I see that MathDino isn't cleared yet either. (although I still enjoy their posting very much)
Good for us in the end I think.
Scum will have to show some of their hand when they kill if we refuse to lock anyone as town.

Tell me when you guys agree that the worst can be lynched today, and I'll be around to unvote at L-1. (???)

Preflips are bad, Math voting me is questionable, I don't know what IIoA means and the worst is still a really good lynch rn

incorrect and we need to focus elsewhere

also

╭∩╮（︶︿︶）╭∩╮

You're still on ofhrz, which is still bad and one of the main reasons I scumread you

Who else do you think is scum

Have you read my posts? srs quessun

Have you read my posts? srs quessun

Yeah, but there's a lot of shit and I don't remember you saying who you scumread recently and an iso glance suggests that I'm right.

Who do you scumread that's not ofhrz

OK if you've read my recent posts I'm not sure why you'd bother asking me that question. If anyone probably you rn tbh

and it's shit and you can do better and you can also do better than your last one

You can do better than voting town

I don't think town avoids finding scum like you've been doing

I'm voting my strongest scumread ATM and have been putting about as much energy into this game as I can muster d1. I feel like I've been pretty open about how turned off this game I am and frankly who the fuck are you to BoP or criticise my playstyle?

VOTE: jjh927 flips red

Is that an ATE OMGUS combo

Make it look like TW vs JJH is SvS.

This is what I think.
Tell me why it's wrong.

[davesaz]

1181 + a couple votes not captured on the VC

Jjh927

(6):

northsidegal

,

the worst

,

pinturicchio

,

ruru

,

Mathdino

, BlackStar, (+

Zoronos

declaring intent to hammer)

HeWhoSwims

(3):

davesaz

, ofrhz, BlackStar,

the worst

(2):

HitAlt

,

jjh927

,

davesaz

(1):

Zoronos

,

Not Voting:

Something_Smart, HeWhoSwims

Townreads <davesaz, HWS, ruru, Zoronos, Mathdino> (1st 4 could be an unstoppable townblock if I'm right about all of them)
Null <ofrhz, BlackStar>
Scum in <the worst, pinturicchio, HitAlt>

Yes, I think both partners could have tried to bus TW, hence giving them the finger.
Yes, I think TW could have been mad enough about it to sacrifice their better role.
Yes, I think it's possible both partners could have bussed JJH.
It's quite possible only one of the 3 scumreads is actually scum. I don't have a clear handle on ofrhz. I can't remember if I wanted to upgrade BlackStar.

[davesaz]

Fine, here it is without the VCA.
It's what I think. These are my reads.

Townreads <davesaz, HWS, ruru, Zoronos, Mathdino> (1st 4 could be an unstoppable townblock if I'm right about all of them)
Null <ofrhz, BlackStar>
Scum in <the worst, pinturicchio, HitAlt>

Yes, I think both partners could have tried to bus TW, hence giving them the finger.
Yes, I think TW could have been mad enough about it to sacrifice their better role.
Yes, I think it's possible both partners could have bussed JJH.
It's quite possible only one of the 3 scumreads is actually scum. I don't have a clear handle on ofrhz. I can't remember if I wanted to upgrade BlackStar.

[davesaz]

The pre-claim game stall?

[davesaz]

Could mean scum are on wagon wishing that town would follow bad push by town.
This implies someone hard townreading or wking the counter.
Or scum are already comfortably townreads.

[davesaz]

Could mean scum are on wagon wishing that town would follow bad push by town.
This implies someone hard townreading or wking the counter.
Or scum are already comfortably townreads.

Which do you think it is?
Why did we struggle for a couple days to get that last vote?

Part of that's on me thinking HWS was scum.
You'd have to ask some other people why they didn't move for several days.

[davesaz]

HitAlt and davesaz have both retracted their innos on me and claimed VT. I don't think anyone else has jeopardized their hypoclaim (GOOD JOB GUYS ).

I think you missed the place where I implied that my vote on you was not because I thought you were scum.

[davesaz]

I'll pass on the immediate hammer and declare intent.

[davesaz]

<checks avatars vs usernames>
GDI hate when people change their avatar, that's what I key on the most. (also hate when people get cute and a bunch have the same avatar)

Oh, uh ok don't suppose some time can hurt.

[davesaz]

VOTE: Pinturrichio

[davesaz]

TBH the whole concept of hypo inno is questionable. For it to be plausible it has to be on at least a null, and if reads are organic at all it isn't going to hold up anyway. You're stuck calling someone town when you don't really believe it, or choosing someone you were already townreading to which the question is why would you hypothetically cop them.

A cop worth the name can work a scum->town read change into conversation pretty easily and it's rare that an inno is worth sacrificing a PR for anyway.

[davesaz]

NSG gets most of the credit for the worst read, though I did catch the d1 interaction between TW and JJH and thought one of them was scum.