Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[Nancy Drew 39]

I didn’t like Shosin’s reasons for her vote.

For the vote on Sajj or Reality?

Reality. However, I’m not clear whether that’s just wrong or scummy. I read the reasons you highlighted as NAI.

What's the problem with my reasons? Reality's read felt unnatural and fake (alignment indicative because townies don't fake reads), and the language used ("really" and "tbh") is the sort of language that scum tends to use when expressing fake reads (yes, town use these sorts of qualifiers too, but scum tend to use them more, especially when expressing reads that don't have any basis in the actual game - and that isn't just theory, it's something I've observed quite often when comparing the same player's town/scum game). Do you disagree with me that the read was unnatural (did you town read Joral at that point?)? And what's wrong with my point about language?

I don’t disagree that language can’t be AI but I really didn’t see the language Reality employed in that post as AI and I was townleaning Jorei at that point and I still am. I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment. I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy. I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning. People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.

[Shoshin]

I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment. I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy. I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning. People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.

You thought my response was a defensive overreaction?

[Shoshin]

If anything, 550 feels defensive.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Nancy, why are you reading Sajj as town?

I didn’t think he had the best opening post but I thought his ISO as a whole was okay. I want to clarify that I’m town

leaning

him as opposed to town

reading

him. @Vartsun. This is true for pretty much everyone on my list. The only players I am actually town

reading

rn are the worst and Vartsun, everyone else on my list is a town

lean

atm. However, my townlean on Jorei is pretty strong as compared to the rest of my list.

While I can understand how SS would think you’re “jumping the gun” on his 317 post, I completely disagree with him on his Renais read. I think that Renais is either scum or vanity posting. I don’t see how that remotely makes her remotely invested in the game.

However, I think him placing a vote on you based on that seems to be an overreaction on his part. I do like that you are on sync with me on Renais however. That’s how I’m reading it, anyway.

[Shoshin]

I don't think I've said much about Renais.

[Shoshin]

What do you think about the reasons I voted Sajj?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment. I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy. I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning. People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.

You thought my response was a defensive overreaction?

If anything, 550 feels defensive.

Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me

tbh

. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?

[Nancy Drew 39]

What do you think about the reasons I voted Sajj?

Well I thought it was based on his defending Renais and townreading her but now you say, it had nothing to do with Rennais. So now, I really don’t get it. If your reasons for voting him have nothing whatsoever do with Renais, then what else could you find possibly suspicious about it?

[Nancy Drew 39]

yeah, i thought you have just jumped the gun on 317
VOTE: shoshin

But do you really think he’s a wolf over just an overly paranoid townie?

[Shoshin]

Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me tbh. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?

Alright, I think I see what's happening here. My intent wasn't defensive, it was to better understand your thought process, so it felt weird to see you call it a "defensive overreaction" when I didn't feel that way at all - from my perspective it barely felt like I was "reacting" to you, more that I was "hunting." But I reread my post and I see where you get the defensiveness - it's because I went into some detail providing some context for the questions I was asking. I also reread your post and it looks like you might have done something similar - you weren't thinking of yourself as defending yourself but you spent a lot of time overexplaining things in a way that I interpreted as defensive in the context of my attempts to sort you. Our intent was probably equally non-defensive.

[WhemeStar]

Someone help me get into this game please

[Shoshin]

What do you think about the reasons I voted Sajj?

Well I thought it was based on his defending Renais and townreading her but now you say, it had nothing to do with Rennais. So now, I really don’t get it. If your reasons for voting him have nothing whatsoever do with Renais, then what else could you find possibly suspicious about it?

I've said other things about Sajj that I find scummy, though I definitely found her actions re: Renais scummy.

[Shoshin]

I don’t disagree that language can’t be AI but I really didn’t see the language Reality employed in that post as AI and I was townleaning Jorei at that point and I still am.

I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid

and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment.

I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy.

I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning.

People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.

I bolded the parts that I interpreted as defensive.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me tbh. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?

Alright, I think I see what's happening here. My intent wasn't defensive, it was to better understand your thought process, so it felt weird to see you call it a "defensive overreaction" when I didn't feel that way at all - from my perspective it barely felt like I was "reacting" to you, more that I was "hunting." But I reread my post and I see where you get the defensiveness - it's because I went into some detail providing some context for the questions I was asking. I also reread your post and it looks like you might have done something similar - you weren't thinking of yourself as defending yourself but you spent a lot of time overexplaining things in a way that I interpreted as defensive in the context of my attempts to sort you. Our intent was probably equally non-defensive.

Alright. Lol. Did you catch my inclusion of the tbh and bolding it? I deliberately put that in to see if you’d scumread me for it. I’m feeling a lot better about you now.

[Shoshin]

Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me tbh. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?

Alright, I think I see what's happening here. My intent wasn't defensive, it was to better understand your thought process, so it felt weird to see you call it a "defensive overreaction" when I didn't feel that way at all - from my perspective it barely felt like I was "reacting" to you, more that I was "hunting." But I reread my post and I see where you get the defensiveness - it's because I went into some detail providing some context for the questions I was asking. I also reread your post and it looks like you might have done something similar - you weren't thinking of yourself as defending yourself but you spent a lot of time overexplaining things in a way that I interpreted as defensive in the context of my attempts to sort you. Our intent was probably equally non-defensive.

Alright. Lol. Did you catch my inclusion of the tbh and bolding it? I deliberately put that in to see if you’d scumread me for it. I’m feeling a lot better about you now.

lol yeah you thought I'd scumread you for that? I'm not that bad at mafia, I'm just trying to sort you and I appreciate that you're actually answering my questions because I feel like we're finally getting somewhere in this game.

[Shoshin]

I'm going to be so disappointed if you're scum, Nancy.

[the worst]

Someone help me get into this game please

Pretend scum!Creature isn't there

ND39 Joral and Reality?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I don’t disagree that language can’t be AI but I really didn’t see the language Reality employed in that post as AI and I was townleaning Jorei at that point and I still am.

I think my assessment of your vote is perfectly valid

and you seem a bit too defensive over a completely reasonable assessment.

I made it clear that that I wasn’t clear if it was just wrong or scummy.

I was leaning in the direction of wrong but your overreaction to my comment is concerning.

People make incorrect reads all the time for NAI reasons. I just didn’t see it at all as AI. If I had read your reasoning as scummy, my vote would have been on you not Renais.

I bolded the parts that I interpreted as defensive.

I could see why you might think that but the actual content shows otherwise. I base my reads on things that don’t add up, tone, how invested someone is in solving etc.

What is your read on Rennais, Wheme and Creature? I’m beginning to doubt my initial read on Creature based on his sounding somewhat antagonistic and his readslist is also making me wonder. However, I still can see few and far between attempts at possible “solviness”?

[the worst]

based on my experience with ND39 she does defend herself very passionately and very townily, idk if it's AI but she does it as town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I'm going to be so disappointed if you're scum, Nancy.

I could say the same. Lol. You’re either pocketing me now or you’re probably town. Rn, I’m leaning towards the latter.

[the worst]

same I just wish she'd use her vote for something

[Shoshin]

What is your read on Rennais, Wheme and Creature? I’m beginning to doubt my initial read on Creature based on his sounding somewhat antagonistic and his readslist is also making me wonder. However, I still can see few and far between attempts at possible “solviness”?

Renais feels troll, not sure about her alignment. If she keeps up as she is, she's going to get lynched. It's frustrating to play with but I'm holding out hope that if she's town, she'll eventually start doing things to make that clear.

Wheme's 155 felt scummy. I think at that point he should have recognized that Joral wasn't scummy enough to keep blindly pushing but he kept tunneling anyway. I thought about voting Wheme at this point but I also wanted to keep pressure on Reality because of her early town read on Wheme, among other things.

Creature's scummy. He hasn't done anything. Posts feel awkward. Doesn't seem to be hunting for scum. And from what I've been told, that's not how Creature plays as town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Are you serious? In what way? I am trying to read you accurately but then you keep making questionable posts like this one. Is SS seeing something I’m not? This post is really pinging me, it almost reads like an OMGUS.Why? Because your post was definitely defensive and I rightly pointed that out. Why you or anyone could possibly view that as in anyway “defensive”, just baffles me tbh. Are you an overly paranoid townie or a defensive wolf?

Alright, I think I see what's happening here. My intent wasn't defensive, it was to better understand your thought process, so it felt weird to see you call it a "defensive overreaction" when I didn't feel that way at all - from my perspective it barely felt like I was "reacting" to you, more that I was "hunting." But I reread my post and I see where you get the defensiveness - it's because I went into some detail providing some context for the questions I was asking. I also reread your post and it looks like you might have done something similar - you weren't thinking of yourself as defending yourself but you spent a lot of time overexplaining things in a way that I interpreted as defensive in the context of my attempts to sort you. Our intent was probably equally non-defensive.

Alright. Lol. Did you catch my inclusion of the tbh and bolding it? I deliberately put that in to see if you’d scumread me for it. I’m feeling a lot better about you now.

lol yeah you thought I'd scumread you for that? I'm not that bad at mafia, I'm just trying to sort you and I appreciate that you're actually answering my questions because I feel like we're finally getting somewhere in this game.

Rn, I have you, the worst, Vartsun and Jorei as my top town. I think however one reads Creature, his putting the worst as his only townread spews him as likely townie. If Creature is town, than the worst really is his strongest townread but if he is scum, than that also favours the worst as probably town. In a game I played with scum!Creature on MU, he asked why there was a wagon on a particular player (and only that player) and that player wound up flipping town. So, based on Creature’s readslist, there is no world where they can be w/w together. So, I completely agree with Vartsun’s reasons for townreading the worst.

[Shoshin]

I think however one reads Creature, his putting the worst as his only townread spews him as likely townie. If Creature is town, than the worst really is his strongest townread but if he is scum, than that also favours the worst as probably town. In a game I played with scum!Creature on MU, he asked why there was a wagon on a particular player (and only that player) and that player wound up flipping town. So, based on Creature’s readslist, there is no world where they can be w/w together. So, I completely agree with Vartsun’s reasons for townreading the worst.

Reading the worst via Creature isn't persuasive to me. What do you think of the actual things the worst has said/done in this game?

[Nancy Drew 39]

What is your read on Rennais, Wheme and Creature? I’m beginning to doubt my initial read on Creature based on his sounding somewhat antagonistic and his readslist is also making me wonder. However, I still can see few and far between attempts at possible “solviness”?

Renais feels troll, not sure about her alignment. If she keeps up as she is, she's going to get lynched. It's frustrating to play with but I'm holding out hope that if she's town, she'll eventually start doing things to make that clear.

Wheme's 155 felt scummy. I think at that point he should have recognized that Joral wasn't scummy enough to keep blindly pushing but he kept tunneling anyway. I thought about voting Wheme at this point but I also wanted to keep pressure on Reality because of her early town read on Wheme, among other things.

Creature's scummy. He hasn't done anything. Posts feel awkward. Doesn't seem to be hunting for scum. And from what I've been told, that's not how Creature plays as town.

Yeah, I really hated his bizarre overreaction to Jorei’s post. It was wayy too over the top. It read fake to me. I’m thinking of possibly switching my vote to Wheme but I wanted to gauge my eyes out with a hot poker after ISOing Rennais.

If there were to be a close tie between the worst and Creature (or any of my top town), I would definitely jump on that wagon. I’m hesitating because I can still see a bit of digging on his part but it could also mean his scum game has improved somewhat. Creature either plays as town by bring super solvey or not really caring about the gamestate. In the last game I played with him, he did practically nothing and I voted him based on that but later in that same game, he wound up pushing for a correct lynch, so I’m not at all clear on his alignment rn. Usually when Creature has randed scum in a game, it’s over the top obvious to nearly every other player. The fact that I even have the slightest doubt, is primarily what is making me hesitate.