Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[PenguinPower]

Votecount 1.04

teacher

(5): Tchill13, BlueBloodedToffee, wavemode, Gustavo, Invisibility

Performer

(2): Nosferatu, Garmr

BlueBloodedToffee

(2): ByronVilla, teacher

Garmr

(1): Performer

Gustavo

(1): Lefty

ByronVilla

(1): Gosrir Elmer Odels

Tchill13

(1): Tommy Egan

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-06-25 14:45:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

[Garmr]

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

Can you explain why you have Teacher & TChill so low?

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

[Lefty]

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

I was looking at order of listed, not color. To me it looks like TChill is his 3rd highest scum read, so I was curious about that. If they're just grouped by color and not in any particular order - then ignore my question.

[Tchill13]

if the team was gosrir, byron and teacher that'd be pretty funny... oh well. just so you know i think guessing teams is stupid day 1 but ppl do it allll the time.

im not lynching bbt today though. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until day 2 possibly 3. Yes it's solely because i understand his style early which is a very easy style to manipulate as scum early. I'm giving him a chance above everything else i've seen though.

Tr-BBT

Scum-Teacher

no reads in between.

BBT seems to have the same mindset I do early. Pretty much any and every townie is expendable days 1 and 2. Wagon reasoning doesnt matter until theres an actual reason to wagon (a reason that can be validated).

These two clash against each other. Didn't you say "It doesn't matter if a townie gets lynched day 1 according to you as they are expendable?" Your words imply that BBT isn't expendable till a certain day or so. Why is BBT different from others.

Also why are you town reading BBT. Nothing in your speech implies you think BBT is town at most it should be a null read. What town actions taken by BBT justify a BBT town read in your eyes, especially if you are giving him the benefit of a doubt (which implies you think his actions are scummy but giving him a pass)?

Being a easy mislynch isn't a legit reason to town read someone.

I have a couple of reasons why I think there's a discrepancy between your mentality as described by you and your actual actions but I would rather hear it untainted from your mouth.

every townie is expendable until from my own perspective have a reason to not vote them. BBT's style of play and reads are similar to mine. I understand the motivation he has for playing the way he does i do the same all the time. That is a reason for me to TR him (I do not build "reads" the same as others d1) I hand out hard TR's day 1 to ppl ik and/or ppl im comfortable to be able to read by day 3. If BBT is town then great, if he's not im confident enough in myself to figure that out later. Clearing the game of townies that will always be in my lynch pool d1 is almost as useful as lynching actual scum seeing how scum will not be able to take advantage of certain town players anymore.

[Invisibility]

VOTE: ByronVilla
this is scum

[Tchill13]

VOTE: BV

107 is a commentary. Provides no information, communicates nothing, asks nothing, leads to nothing. So why make such a long post?

To make a statement. It seemed that BBT was confused as to why my vote was serious, and so I told him exactly why my vote was serious. Him withholding information from the town so he can ignore it. The sidenotes and nothing more/less than what they are, a sidenote. There's nothing wrong with a commentary, as it gets my views out there. That post wasn't made in order to ask questions or provide information (well I'm hoping for BBT to elaborate on his #84 but hey ho), it was more a platform for me to speak my mind on those posts of BBT's.

if you're seriously voting someone for not talking about a gut read/meta/something they saw this early thats kinda dumb. I could see doing that to someone the day before lylo. You realize the good townies get killed fisrt right? so if you're a good townie and you'd rather actually solve the game... You can't show your hand. You DO have to hold back a bit early in the game. That's just how it is. I can understand you not realizing that point in particular but now that i've mentioned it there's no point in pushing BBT for the same thing. Either you can disagree with my thought and we can discuss that or you can move along and make new reads, if you want of course. Not telling you how to play at all

[Tchill13]

wavemode

BlueBloodedToffee

Garmr

Lefty

ByronVilla

Invisibility

Gustavo
Gosrir Elmer Odels
Nosferatu
Performer
Tchill13
Tommy Egan

teacher

this is interesting. Why am i so close to teacher and so far from BBT?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Invis talk about that vote.

[Lefty]

VOTE: ByronVilla
this is scum

Why?

[Gustavo]

For now Byron v bbt is tvt.

I’ve got a good list of town reads so far. We should lynch teacher and go from there.

Mind sharing that list?

Nah.

[ByronVilla]

VOTE: BV

107 is a commentary. Provides no information, communicates nothing, asks nothing, leads to nothing. So why make such a long post?

To make a statement. It seemed that BBT was confused as to why my vote was serious, and so I told him exactly why my vote was serious. Him withholding information from the town so he can ignore it. The sidenotes and nothing more/less than what they are, a sidenote. There's nothing wrong with a commentary, as it gets my views out there. That post wasn't made in order to ask questions or provide information (well I'm hoping for BBT to elaborate on his #84 but hey ho), it was more a platform for me to speak my mind on those posts of BBT's.

if you're seriously voting someone for not talking about a gut read/meta/something they saw this early thats kinda dumb. I could see doing that to someone the day before lylo. You realize the good townies get killed fisrt right? so if you're a good townie and you'd rather actually solve the game... You can't show your hand. You DO have to hold back a bit early in the game. That's just how it is. I can understand you not realizing that point in particular but now that i've mentioned it there's no point in pushing BBT for the same thing. Either you can disagree with my thought and we can discuss that or you can move along and make new reads, if you want of course. Not telling you how to play at all

I play to win, not to survive. In a worst case scenario when I die, I want to make sure there's enough info left for other townies to pick up the pieces. Also is it bad I don't consider myself good at the game? I feel compared to others I'm quite expendable and it's a better strat to let the experienced players take the mantle come the endgame.

[Garmr]

Stepping in but that's a odd question. The TChill part at least teacher is a scum read.

Tchill is a null read according to the list (judging by the colour code) and tbh I disagree with the reasoning that people are town reading him for but I want him to come in personally and answer my question.

It's like you are asking why aren't you town reading chill which strikes me as a odd thing to say as a townie.

I was looking at order of listed, not color. To me it looks like TChill is his 3rd highest scum read, so I was curious about that. If they're just grouped by color and not in any particular order - then ignore my question.

The colours normally mean reads green-town, black-null and red-scum. I'm not sure if they are ordered but even if they are it wouldn't necessarily means he scums reads him. What do you think he should be higher on the list?

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

[Gustavo]

VOTE: ByronVilla
this is scum

It’s very obvious he’s town. This is why you aren’t on the list

[Invisibility]

Invis talk about that vote.

he was bad in BBT vs BV
i can pull out specific things but like i'll have to read it again to find it so give me a sec

[Gustavo]

I play to win, not to survive. In a worst case scenario when I die, I want to make sure there's enough info left for other townies to pick up the pieces.

But if you scum read people for things that aren’t AI, nobody is going to listen to you when you are dead. Besides, unless you are NKd, people typically don’t listen to the dead people and while i town read you, If you are actually town, id be surprised if scum actually killed you.

[Invisibility]

it's like that stuff about calling BBT scum for being "an ass" i don't like

[Tchill13]

Byron trying way too hard to sound town there.

Is it really this easy.

Teacher/Byron/???

Jesus christ you just love using OMGUS don't you? Learn some respect jesus

this BBT V Byron is disgusting on byron's part. Demands "other" info from BBT (giving BBT exactly what he wanted, a reaction) claims he's trying to learn the game (join date 2015) jumps for the OMGUS finger pointing immediately (this is where I get my scumtingles, other points could have town motivation to them) and now Byron has made such a big issue out of the mess it can't go ignored. Town usually doesn't jump to OMGUS like that imo in that situation this early in the game.

[Lefty]

For now Byron v bbt is tvt.

I’ve got a good list of town reads so far. We should lynch teacher and go from there.

Mind sharing that list?

Nah.

Cool.

You’d tell me if you were scum right?

[ByronVilla]

Byron trying way too hard to sound town there.

Is it really this easy.

Teacher/Byron/???

Jesus christ you just love using OMGUS don't you? Learn some respect jesus

this BBT V Byron is disgusting on byron's part. Demands "other" info from BBT (giving BBT exactly what he wanted, a reaction) claims he's trying to learn the game (join date 2015) jumps for the OMGUS finger pointing immediately (this is where I get my scumtingles, other points could have town motivation to them) and now Byron has made such a big issue out of the mess it can't go ignored. Town usually doesn't jump to OMGUS like that imo in that situation this early in the game.

I played two newbie games, stopped playing, and have played two mini normals before this. I am still learning the game.

[Tchill13]

Thanks for response Wave, I disagree with reasoning on Invis vote as I could easily see it being qualified as RVS.

I understand that possibility (small as it might be - the wagon was clearly formed for serious reasons), but at the end of the day I'm not claiming it would have gotten him lynched to vote there as scum - I'm just saying he had nothing to *gain*. It would have been a risk for no benefit to vote and offer no dialogue or reasoning there, IMO, as opposed to giving some reasoning and attempting to look like a contributing townie. UNLESS, as I said, it was a 5D chess move to fool the observant. In my experience this flips town 8 times out of 10

I disagree on Byron as well - this feels like scum who don't want to backtrack on a read. Trying to stay consistent/how they think they would act as town.

Oh, come on now, be objective. Does this REALLY read to you like a push for your throat? What does scum gain from 107, making points that he himself admits (several times, in other posts) are not necessarily scummy but anti-town? "scum who don't want to backtrack on a read" ehhh byron was not under any pressure to start taking shots at you. He created this whole stink unprompted. If he's scum here, he must think he can not only get you lynched but also recover from your town flip afterward. But he's not playing to that objective whatsoever. He seems to just really want to know what the fuck is up with your read lol. Usually once I reach the position of "if this person were scum, he'd have to actually just be fucking retarded" I set them aside. Like,

maaaaaayyyybeeee

but we can deal with him later if he is. In my experience this flips town 99 times out of 100

@wavemode regarding the "maybe retarded" statement... In my experience sometimes giving scum any credit for being a decent player is too much credit at all. I'd be careful with that.

[Invisibility]

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

are you saying this just because i was in a lot of wagons early game?

[Lefty]

The colours normally mean reads green-town, black-null and red-scum. I'm not sure if they are ordered but even if they are it wouldn't necessarily means he scums reads him. What do you think he should be higher on the list?

P:edit
VOTE: Invisibility His just opportunistically jumping on what wagon may take off. I see no real thought process of his own.

Nah, I’m not saying he needs to be higher. I was curious as to what Wavemode was seeing if in fact I was reading his list correctly (in order and not by group), to see if we had similar impressions on that slot.

[Invisibility]

okay that was worded badly and i'm not sure how to write it better

bleh ninja'd

[Tchill13]

i was addressing this interaction from invisibility. its easy to spew town this early on a stance like that. It's not "fluff". It's invisibility purposefully looking town. tbh i believe scum have more to gain from spewing town early and seek to do so more than actual townies.

Wouldn't Town say the same thing on that topic? So the difference is people not mentioning it and (from you pov) Invis going out of their way to say it?

exactly. Scum want to look town so they'll make the easy statements quicker than other townies imo. This isn't a full proof way to read someone i just use it to "help" a main case, which i do not have on invisibility.

[Invisibility]

to clarify, you not saying that that situation makes me scum, just that it doesn't make me town?