Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[havingfitz]

VOTE: Pine

For beating me to the mastina walllllll post quote.

[havingfitz]

Catch up.

Early Pine tl.

wrt Mom's 62..don't care for the shock at being on 3rd page (2 of which don't even count) and the Mmmm vote.

VOTE: Momrangal

Early Cake tl.

@Eevee, wrt 77...as much as you value your vote if you WERE to vote it would be me, the person who's possibly posted the least? You've no suspicions up to this point from what content there is from others?

@Wis, wrt 82...do you ever say you're town when you're scum? If fluffing is NAI why the Koki vote?

Early sl's: Mom, Eevee and Wis.

[havingfitz]

i dont like fitz
his scumleans are based on nai things

What NAI things are my scumleans based on wrt you and Eevee?

Also...hypocrite much?

@Wis, wrt 82...do you ever say you're town when you're scum?

If fluffing is NAI why the Koki vote?

yes

Because it's a better vote than the one I had before

Also it means fits reads are bad which isn't entirely surprising but what is, is the fact that he is not really even hunting.

Nice little ad hom there. If you were any good at this game I would be offended.

My reads aren't bad until they are proven wrong...and why do you say I'm not scum hunting?
Are you? Your ISO says not.

[havingfitz]

Lots of bad scum reads for bad reasons, especially the Mom vote.

Explain.

[havingfitz]

What NAI things are my scumleans based on wrt you and Eevee?

These:

@Eevee, wrt 77...as much as you value your vote if you WERE to vote it would be me, the person who's possibly posted the least?  You've no suspicions up to this point from what content there is from others?

You having posted the least doesn't mean Eevee is not allowed to scumread you more than people who have posted more. This is no basis for a scumlean.

For page 2 of game content I would argue that scumleans aren't going to be based on extremely convincing evidence.  The fact Eevee would be more inclined to place a vote on someone who only had 1 RVS post at that point in the game over any of the players who had generated, or had generated towards them, a fair amount of content seemed suspect imo and evasive of taking a stand.  We had had 2 or 3 wagons run up to 3 votes on them by this time and no comment on those at all.  If Eevee had said anything to indicate a potential vote on me would have been for ex.  pressure to engage…I would not have thought twice about it.  She did not however hence the suspicion.

@Wis, wrt 82...do you ever say you're town when you're scum?  If fluffing is NAI why the Koki vote?

Me saying I am town is meaningless and thus nai. Me voting Kokichi can be for any number of reasons regardless of what I think of his fluff. This is no basis for a scumlean.

I’m not suspicious of you for saying you were town.  My point there was to illustrate how useless your comment was.  Which was the only value of my question...

What I do find suspect is that you vote Koki for no other apparent or stated iirc reason than fluff posting which you yourself admit is NAI for him.

So you suspect me for casting suspicions for NAI observations (which I do not totally agree with) while at the same time voting someone for…….admitted NAI reasons.    That to me is suspect.

Early sl's: Mom, Eevee and Wis.

So basicallyyyyy

Scum is doing a hell of alot of unwarranted theatre game start. Got it!

The interactions among you three are minimal. Sure, they don't read very svs, but it's not impossible. More importantly, this is a really bad reason to try to discredit reads, it seems to me. Just because they don't all seem to work together doesn't mean that all the reads are bad.

That said, I don't like HF's vote on momrangal either. He bases it on an innocuous reaction and what I interpreted to be a RVS vote on wisdom. Meanwhile, he actually has a valid concern about Eevee--not the point about having a vote on the person who posted the least, but the point about not offering any other suspicions concerning other players. So HF, why is this less worthy of a vote than your vote based on momrangal's very first post?

It’s less worthy because my Momrangal vote came with expressed reasons for the content within her post….Eevee hypothetical vote on me was for no stated reason.  Which I would argue no stated reason should have been secondary to the more-than-zero content others had been getting.

You say my suspicion towards Momrangal was for an innocuous comment.  Your opinion.  When I read it it struck me as fake….especially given the fact that almost 2 of those 3 pages were pre-game and didn’t count.  And then the thoughtful “Mmmm” pause before voting for Wisdom.

I’ll admit the reasons were gut feel and not an airtight case.  There was also an element of see how she reacts to the vote.  Which I think she has failed miserably at.  My weak vote on her which is generally being decried as for no good reasons gets a response of “scum doing unwarranted theater”(despite agreeing with at least one of my reads) and adhoming me with the “not surprised at bad reads from fitz” (paraphrasing) comment.  Neither of those reactions sits well with me and leads me to like my vote where it is

Lots of bad scum reads for bad reasons, especially the Mom vote.

Explain.

The mom scum read is for completely nai stuff.

The initial reason was for gut…and stays for reasons expressed to Otter above.

The Eevee read as well.

Opinion.  I explain it in more detail above.  I do not think my suspicion of Eevee is completely NAI.  Of my 3 scumreads the suspicions towards her are probably the weakest considering where they began and how she reacted.

Wis scum read I didn't even see reasoning for

His position of Koki fluff posting and fluff posting being NAI for Koki and voting Koki anyway.  For no other stated reasons as I recall. 

<<< Fixing quote tag. >>>

 

[havingfitz]

bs
you're trying to make it appear like lack of reasons is scummy
you've played enough games to know people can be town and yet not explain a single thing they do

No BS. Stop talking out your ass and misrepping me.

Where do I say lack of reasons is scummy?

Do I go around scumreading every player who lays down a naked vote? No.

@mod...

I screwed up one of my Otter quotes in my last post. Not count his works my pist should be under 500 words.

<<< Correct, I clocked it as 485 when fixed. As a reminder, I will fix broken tags on my own, so a heads up on them is done at your own risk, but I appreciate it all the same. >>>

[havingfitz]

Youre kidding me, right?

Absolutely not.

[If Eevee had said anything to indicate a potential vote on me would have been for ex. pressure to engage…I would not have thought twice about it. She did not however hence the suspicion.

= "Eevee did not say why hes voting me, so its suspicious"

"She did not however hence the suspicion"

WHICH WAS FOR

"The fact Eevee would be more inclined to place a vote on someone who only had 1 RVS post at that point in the game over any of the players who had generated, or had generated towards them, a fair amount of content seemed suspect imo and evasive of taking a stand."

What I do find suspect is that you vote Koki for no other apparent or stated iirc reason

than

fluff posting which you yourself admit is NAI for him.

= "You didnt say why youre voting kokichi, so its suspicious"

I'm voting you for the reasons you gave...not the reasons you didn't give. The reason you gave is BS and is the exact thing you are incorrectly accusing me of in voting me. Voting for NAI reasons.

Yeah youre totally not scumreading lack of reasons.

Yeah...you're totally misrepping.

[havingfitz]

Fitz "gut/reaction test" explanation reads like major backpedaling.

Where is my vote? I've given my reasons and stand behind them. And her reaction was shit so my vote feels better.

Reactions aren't something you consider with early game votes?

[havingfitz]

Initially you were calling your reads scum leans for reasons in that wall post. But now you're saying it was for other reasons (gut and etc) which is what bothers me. Not your dedication to your vote.

Backpedaling isn't sticking to your suspicions and adding to them with other considerations. Wtf?

Nah this is WisTown

If Wisdom is town in this game he needs to seriously reassess his play. This would be 2 shit games in a row to my knowledge.

[havingfitz]

Mod...are you doing votecounts this game?

If so...would you mind doing one?

[havingfitz]

OK...the game is so short I'm doing a read from the start (mid pg 2):

rvsrvsrvsrvs

wrt AA9's post 44...when I first read this I thought it was a bit lamist but then as I got further into pg 3 decided it was nothing based on 2nd language consideration.  (i.e. I was of same mindset Wisdom [and Hiraki] was when they voted AA9).

Echoed by Pine in post 52....and Cake in next post.

@Mom wrt 64...what are you not sure about wrt Pine's comment?

gut tr'ing Pine and Koki at this point...perhaps Cake too.

@Hiraki wrt 66...do you always "say something" when you sheep another player's vote?

tr TheBrie...

hmmm....not seeing where AA9 was being "extremely hypocritical" wrt Wisdom as Hiraki states here.

Still do not like Eevee's hypothetical vote on me (77).  Her 86 feels off as well.

Still agree with my own 90.

Still dislike Mom's 98.

Don't like Wisdom's 102....feels like it's making excuses and infer's a PL vote on Koki.

tl in Dunnstral

I lean town on Cake but still think his vote on me is crap.

tl on Otter

125...feels like a soft defense of Eevee by Wisdom.

@ Dunn, wrt 140...why are you voting me?

@Cake...how am I confusing you?.  My point is I haven't back pedaled on anything.  If I say play x is scummy for reason 1.  And later add another reason...that's not back pedaling.

I could see Wisdom's scum list including 2 town (me and Koki) and one scum (Fuzzy).  Or all 3 town as my opinion on Fuzzy is still forming.

wrt Wisdom's 178...whether you are scum or town...any reasons given by others (whether they are town or scum) that go against your wincon are going to be called BS.  Show me a case against you that you like.  And you pulling meta based on 1 game is......bs.

Wisdom omgus sr'ing Brie's replacement Mathblade as soon as a hint of suspicion comes his way looks bad imo.

@Math wrt 198...how does me being scum work itself out?  By scum winning?

Done.

I still suspect my first three suspects.  Though my order has changed slightly:

Scum to town feels...

Eevee/Wisdom
Momrangal
Fuzzy
HIraki
AA9/Pine
Koki
Dunn
Cakez
Math/Otter

VOTE: Eevee

[havingfitz]

I'm talking out of my ass here but I think there's probably still a larger Wisdom wagon at this point. Are they weighted the same or nah?

Close. Wagon make up has Eevee my preference

[havingfitz]

Fitz was actually voting momrangal (still for a bad initial reason, imo)

Naturally imo my reasons were fine.  And subsequent Mom content (reaction) only solidified my suspicions.

while never pointing out her inconsistency wrt voting Wisdom.

I was suspecting them both independently of each other and one suspect voting another suspect meant nothing that early in the game.  The fact the person I was voting did something additionally questionable (whether they admitted to it or not) didn’t earn comment by me.

Maybe Fitz sees momrangal as a liability to being able to push Wisdom later.

if I think they are both scum they would be liabilities to getting one or the other lynched.  Not sure the point here.  I suspect them both.  Scum partners will be liability to each others lynch under most circumstances imo.

Seeing that the momrangal vote is highly criticized, he moves to the eevee wagon.

I’m not going to park my vote uselessly if other suspects close to or equal in suspicion have more traction.

 

Why not Fuzzy? How could you possibly still be forming an opinion on Fuzzy when he's done literally nothing this game?

I don’t like what Fuzzy has done this game.  I would not be entirely opposed to seeing him lynched today…but it feels like more of a policy lynch than a lynch for anything he has done.  And similar to the criticisms I placed on Eevee for their hypothetical vote on me…I’m rather place a vote on someone who I suspect for things they have done than on someone for a ~PL.  

I don't have good reads on Hiraki or Kokichi, so I need to take the time to do this (will have to do later tonight).

If you don’t have good reads on these two why are you lumping them with your grouping of scum?

I think there is scum within {Fuzzy, Fitz, Math, Kokichi, Hiraki}.

How many scum?  One?  Two?  The team?  IMO Fuzzy and Hiraki could possibly be scum.  IMO Math and Koki are probably town.  IMK I am town. 

[havingfitz]

he is avoiding me.

lol

I'm not avoiding anything other than this website over the weekend, as usual.

If you had something you wanted me to reply to restate or point me to it please.

Probably not back in here until tomorrow morning.

[havingfitz]

remind me of this when fitz flips red

Mmm

I'm not entirely confident in that flip

, but I disagree with the notion that he makes sense. As it stands, he doesn't seem to be doing anything out of the ordinary for him

VOTE: fitz

This is honestly probably the best wagon.

What in the three posts I made between these posts from you made me "honestly probably" the best wagon after being on the fence about me being scum? Also..."honestly probably" is the kind of language that pings me even more on you. "honestly probably?"

Am I "honestly probably" the best wagon because I think you are scum?

It's pretty weird that the one post he didn't like is the one where his competence is questioned (again) and I feel like he is scum reading me because of that.

I scum read you before you started with the ad homs against me to discredit my suspicions towards you.

[havingfitz]

Math...why is fuzzy scum aside from meta?

Fuzzy...why aren't you doing anything? ffs. Who's scum. Who are you inclined to vote?

[havingfitz]

Because Fuzzy is blatantly not hunting and when he does try to post something it comes out as obvious bullshit.

He doesn't do this as town?

[havingfitz]

Yeah sure. You're the best wagon because I am an omgusser.

Keep pretending I didn't show my progression of thought regarding your slot though.

I didn't say you were omgus voting me...I asked if you were. And if saying I'm not "critically thinking" is your progression between being on the fence on me and voting me....that's a shit progression.

Let's also pretend I didn't already explain why those three beginning scum reads were bad, even in isolation of each other.

My scum reads are fine and independent of each other and came nefore you wrre on the fence. What does "even in isolation" even mean? smh...

And your ad homs came after I suspected you so mice accusation by you of the contrary.

[havingfitz]

Bump for new page.

[havingfitz]

4 votes Eevee.
4 votes Fuzzy.
My opinion of the two hasn't changed.
I actually like both wagon compositions so maybe they're both scum.
Eevee and A9 aren't getting any value from their 1 vote wagons.
I'll try to get a reply fwiw to mom's comments.

mod...I'm v/la Friday-Monday morning.

[havingfitz]

I'll try to get a reply fwiw to mom's comments.

Not happening tonight.

See you all Monday.