Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Ankamius]

I'm actually a bit afraid that just about every flip since I made that list has been in my d2 townreads.

[Alchemist21]

Ugh, action failed again. Fairly obvious I won't be getting a result here.

Jungle can you tell us about your quest today? I'm with kaede in thinking today should be the last chance to get a quest done.

As long as nobody counterclaims this I'm taking it as a innocent on Wilky.

I'll wait to hear Jungle's quest before voting anywhere.

[wilky]

Just went through dunnstrals iso. Dunn hard defended Maria most of the game and defended Maria not posting the track results/hood partner. Dunn also never got on the Maria lynch.
Dunn got on the projectmatt wagon but backed off when the lynch looked likely.
Dunn wasn't on the vent lynch.
Dunn seemed to want Wraith dead for a fair bit and Wraith flipped town.
How many scum was it we thought was likely earlier? I also see scum!Dunn implicating another 2 players as scum one moreso than the other but I want to see more interactions before disclosing who it was

[Ankamius]

The main thing about dunn is that matt was also hardcore tunneling him until MariaR softcleared him

[YT2980]

Hello, typed this up last night, because I didn’t want to stall at all to start this day phase. Especially when I feel the person who questioned me, ankamius, is town.

@Ankamius: The bulk of what I used to form my initial gamereads was activity that happened right around each D1 thru D3 lynch, using an ISO of gif’s posts in-thread to help guide me. Decided this was an excellent route to go down given 2 scum flips had already resulted from the lynches. Committed to reading 10 pages before each lynch occurred, and 5 after.

So, there are a few reasons I concluded a definite town read on you, Ankamius.

First, your 929 follows a train of thought I can only see as town. I wouldn't see a point in a scum ankamius panicking over a D1 lynch because of a lack of info about potential associations with the D1 flip. I think a scum player would be thrilled of this lack of information, and opt not to discuss it. Whereas, town has legitimate reasons to panic about this. Thus, instant town lean.

Second, I can’t see scum continually repeating that they feel projectmatt is town on D3 when he's practically dead in the water and clearly the lynch target. And then, further, maintaining this stance after he’s lynched. If anything, given that he flipped scum, I feel any potential scum member would be seriously disincentivized from doing this, so that seems clearly on the surface to me like uninformed town, and not scum.

I also felt your case against ramcius was fair, because looking at some of his posts they don’t seem like the most town-friendly posts. Hopefully I can make up for Ramcius.

I also took a look at impossibear's posts in-thread once I seen his town flip at day start, and concluded that MariaR would have had one of the strongest incentives to have killed them, which only served to strengthen my scum read when I chose to vote Maria yesterday.

My town leans/scum leans I voiced last day phase need further content and support to help sort them out, so I am continuing to search for more, but they were tentative conclusions, based upon gut feelings from the info I previously consumed.

Please, let me know if any of my other reads concern you.

[Alchemist21]

The main thing about dunn is that matt was also hardcore tunneling him until MariaR softcleared him

I mean nero and Maria were both scum and did theater with each other. I could see Dunn being involved in that.

[wilky]

The main thing about dunn is that matt was also hardcore tunneling him until MariaR softcleared him

I mean nero and Maria were both scum and did theater with each other. I could see Dunn being involved in that.

Pretty much this. I'm phone posting just now so getting everything into a post is awkward aswell but Dunn was right up for a Jungle lynch when that wagon was gaining traction after we never got a daycop on impossibear yet after that wagon died down Dunn stated that Jungle would mechanically be the wrong lynch and we shouldn't lynch there.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Oh yeah, I also would like to extend an apology to Ouroboros, their track target was good coz it gave us a guilty with matt's flip, I still dont think that was the optimal way to have played it, but considering the track fell on lying scum it ended up for the better.

[davesaz]

Agree, and the neighborize targets ended up being useful too.

It should be pretty much beyond doubt that if I had been scum with Maria we could have announced OTM's crumbed target and both been cleared. Maria must have thought she could frame me by being the first to reveal the no result. I'm happy that the ramifications of the matt no result swayed enough people to get Maria lynched.

I agree with wanting to hear from JUNGLE before doing much. There is probably a lot of heavy lifting to get remaining scum. Do we think the team is more likely to be 4 or 5? I think it's on the line and could go either way. Possible deep scum here.

[YT2980]

while my ipad updates to ios 11, some questions

punreader: did you target davesaz last night?
kaede: what are your thoughts on ankamius? hoping you can support my townread on them, but if you have any inklings they are scum i'd like to know.
dunnstral: who are you townreading right now?
kokichi: who are your scumspects right now?

[Kokichi Oma]

Who did Math block.

[Kokichi Oma]

Also thanks guys for finally listening to me on Maria. Only took 2 days.

[Kokichi Oma]

Why didnt scum just strong arm kill kaede. Idgi if shes mod confirmed clear

[Kokichi Oma]

We should just lynch dave I guess? I'm not sure. I'll read and decide. Likely one scum left anyway

[Kokichi Oma]

Mark* block

[wilky]

Also thanks guys for finally listening to me on Maria. Only took 2 days.

If it's worth any consolation I scum read Maria from d1 but she was my first cop target and I was holding off a bit until I got a result.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

kaede: what are your thoughts on ankamius? hoping you can support my townread on them, but if you have any inklings they are scum i'd like to know.

Ankamius is town tho.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Then again i did say the same thing about projectmatt.
But i'm more confident on my Ankamius read.

[Dunnstral]

dunnstral: who are you townreading right now?

Punreader, probably dave and kokichi too

VOTE: Alchemist21

[Punreader]

The main thing about dunn is that matt was also hardcore tunneling him until MariaR softcleared him

I mean nero and Maria were both scum and did theater with each other. I could see Dunn being involved in that.

I like your idea, but I think you have the wrong target. There was someone else involved:

I don't think the miller really needs to be talked on and should just focus on the play of said miller. It can be a fake claim but that doesn't mean it's a scum fake claim either. Just focus on day play and if something comes up we can talk about it.

My question is why add 2 millers in the first place if both the flavor on the miller part would conf them they'd become masons within the matter of moments it feels too simple.
Perhaps that's the whole wifom trick gif wanted us to play around?

I don't think we should've went into full detail on this until both millers claimed flavor but I still somewhat want to play it as is on day play not night play because the 2 miller thing just has a lot of wifom stuff in it that we can't really solve on our own.

I would rather wilky claim first myself because his whole way of going at it gives me bad vibes that I can't really explain compared to dave

I don't think anyone (nor should) is saying that we must lynch in the millers it was mostly "out guess the mod" and wifom based on flavor. I think reading on the play itself is what's more important. I'm willing to join the Wilky wagon but It's not for the miller claiim more so his rxn to the whole thing also I assume in a game like fall out there would be fake claims? so I don't really like RC's vote reason for Wilky.
VOTE: Wilky

I'm not getting the Wilky hate. Like at all. Why in the world would scum fakeclaim miller to 1v1 a useless powerrole. Everyone on that wagon gets -10 town cred.

What does seem possible to me is that Dave fakeclaims miller and then CC'd.

vote:Dave

Oh wait we have

two

Miller claims out the gate?

We're going to need some immediate flavor claims.

^

I mean I brought up the flavour thing and even pointed to which part of the PM it is contained within. As scum I wouldn't know that information if everyone wants me to claim first then that's fine by me.

I was also working off the assumption that there would only be 1 miller tbh and was aiming to catch dave out already but going by what's been said 2 millers is something the mod would definitely do so i'm now beginning to believe both me and dave are millers here.

So we're just assuming that safe claims are given now?

These pinged me as scummy stuff with tmi trying to withhold info. And even without the miller claims I don't really like his tone about the whole miller situation in the first place. Why are you voting Ank? For pressure or because you sr them? I don't think just voting will hurry them up with whatever they're doing.

He's claiming a neg utility role. Hiders are weak by nature, he's saying that GIF has nerfed the role and made it not weak. The idea of 3 neg utility roles irks me. There is a fake claimer in this group.

I'm not getting the Wilky hate. Like at all. Why in the world would scum fakeclaim miller to 1v1 a useless powerrole

It's possible Wilky fakeclaimed Miller to try and appear as a second Miller. It would make sense given the mod meta that 2 millers in a game has been done by this mod before, but on the other hand Wilky did say this was their first large Theme game so I doubt they would have been aware enough of Gif's mod meta to have taken advantage of it unless a scumbuddy told them. But yeah, you're probably right and to think Wilky's scum requires a lot of assumptions, more than are probably reasonable.

good posting.

Who is aware of Gifs mod meta, besides ouroboros?

I'm not getting the Wilky hate. Like at all. Why in the world would scum fakeclaim miller to 1v1 a useless powerrole. Everyone on that wagon gets -10 town cred.

What does seem possible to me is that Dave fakeclaims miller and then CC'd.

vote:Dave

This is a terrible viewpoint on the matter
You're acting like the fakeclaim was to 1v1: if Wilky had claimed and I had bloodlust time to murder this fuck who fakeclaimed miller vibes I would have agreed with you.
I got the vibes with Wilky's claim that he was voting Davesaz because he was obligated to and looking for a way to defuse the tension and end with oh we both agree we're both town.

I went back read 52 b/c I didn't get that vibe at all. If I title my head just right I could maybe understand someone taking the "Until then" line as a character fish/intent to town read them later on but what I really don't get is

i saw the first miller claim and was like

there's probably gonna be another, this being a gif game and all

Do you think there are two millers in this game?

Well, I mean I felt like Dave was scummier than Wilky here and I haven't really changed my mind so....what else do you feel like I should be doing?

VOTE: Nero Cain
This seems good

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

VOTE: Nero

Well, I mean I felt like Dave was scummier than Wilky here and I haven't really changed my mind so....what else do you feel like I should be doing?

I'd like it if you could expand on your dave/wilky viewpoint.

it's mostly the same as b4. I don't really see scum Wilky CCing Dave here. Them both being Millers is just as equally plausible to me as Wilky Dave fakeclaiming miller as scum. I'm not really getting y I can't think that Dave is scum that got CC'd. If its "there's mod meta!" then fair, I'm not saying we HAVE to vote Dave I just hadn't moved my vote to another scumspect yet. I'd want to lynch off the Wilky mini wagon.

I don't get how town Nero can get "oh 3 people claim neg utility so scum has to be fake claiming" without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.
Scum nero thinking that and using it as an agenda to push something makes a lot more sense though imo.

You're saying I can't find that genuine when from my "join date" I didn't know why you thought that so why did you just think "oh it's a scum thought process" right away? Also just because you point to wiki and find a role weak doesn't mean it can't be in the game that's not the issue at hand here. The issue is you're saying 3 roles 1 has to be a fake claim in them via scum and that's the agenda you're pushing that I have a problem with it's not me saying you don't think hiders are weak I don't really care about that. I just don't get why you closed off the thought of "oh maybe they could all be town" Do you sr people in the group besides the claims? I see you tr wilk because you don't see scum him ccing but what do you feel about dave and tchi play wise?

without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.

Its putting words into my mouth.

I guess the real question is why can't I, as town, think there's a fake claimer in 3 neg utility roles? I guess the other question is why do you think all 3 are town and they aren't fakeclaiming.

Do you sr people in the group besides the claims? I see you tr wilk because you don't see scum him ccing but what do you feel about dave and tchi play wise?

I DO! I think you are scum and the RC hydra is scummy and Khade. Dave and tchill are null, it's pure WIFOM paranoid.

WRT Maria, not a fan of her voting with me while simultaneously saying something about how she doesn't like my reasons for voting him

thought I do like this I just didn't like how RC seemingly was talking out of both sides of his mouth about Wilky.

And your going from "I think Wilky is scum" to "guys lets all believe the the 3 neg utility roles" makes your Wilky vote seem pretty bandwagony.

guess the real question is why can't I, as town, think there's a fake claimer in 3 neg utility roles? I guess the other question is why do you think all 3 are town and they aren't fakeclaiming.

I never said the 2nd part see

this

is putting words into someones mouth just because I am voting you because of something I dislike does not mean I throw my other logic on wilky out the window

Alright if that is all I'm done this convo and have fruit to eat.

I know 2 town roles, maybe 4 since I'm coming around to the idea of using two millers. Its not enough for me to know whether or not the town is weak or strong and I can't tell you about the nature of the scumteam.
How is that NOT putting words into my mouth?

I had felt like her quoting my 222 was a misrep of the usage of the word weak there and her trying to claim that I'm calling hiders weak and thus the town weak.

She's basicly sheeping Dunn here but adding on some strongly worded hot air. If she thinks I'm scummy that I felt it was a very strong possibility that one of Dave or Tchill was scum that got CCed/fakeclaimed then fine but she's trying hard to make it seem like she's not sheeping Dunn. I don't really understand why she thinks I think

Wilky

your top scum read is town as fuck Wilky while you also blasted me for thinking that there's scum in the fake claimers? This is hypocritical as fuck.

*shrug* I guess I don't get why it takes people for a loop when they see 2 of the same claim. I ran into the same issue before in a game got n1ed for being a voice of reason. Remind me what your stance of the 2 players in question are play wise?

I'm policy dayvigging the next person to vote a claimed mason.

(^^^He meant miller, for clarity.^^^)

You know the player this implicates to me?

VOTE: davesaz.

[Dunnstral]

I don't think it's dave

[Punreader]

punreader: did you target davesaz last night?

I did, but as a reminder, I don't die when hiding behind people who don't share my alignment, so I cannot clear players I hide behind.

It does make an excellent incentive for the pun to nightkill the player I'm hiding behind if the player I hide behind is town, because at this stage I feel fairly confident that I am obvtown enough to never be lynched, I have strongly contributed to the lynch of two pun, and while davesaz may or may not be the last one, even if he isn't I am still going to POE the game down bit by bit.

For instance, right now if davesaz were to flip town, I'd hide behind Kokichi Oma again.

I should get an updated reads list which when inverted could give a lynch order.

I largely expect it to be unnecessary though, as I am primarily planning for a davesaz lynch to end the game in a town win. But, never hurts to take the precaution.

[Punreader]

Who did Math block.

Honestly, likely me, given OnTheMark's last indicated posting was asking Ankamius if it would be bad to block me. If we were going by OnTheMark's reads, however, it would be either wilky (thus the failed result) or davesaz (making lynching him a mistake, but regrettably, I am not psychic so if this were the case I have no way of telling).

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I think he didnt want to block dave.

[Ankamius]

Who did Math block.

Honestly, likely me, given OnTheMark's last indicated posting was asking Ankamius if it would be bad to block me.

I'm going to correct this since it really confused me

OTM asked Kaede, not me.