mini 2013: the chorus of i'll call b4 i cum mafia (all done)

[Dunnstral]

I think as long as nobody claims vig, tchill is scum. If somebody claims vig, tchill is town

[UnaBombaH]

Also Chill saying they didn't get the fruit is a given - scum!Chill never admits to it because it means he is guiltied then and there (right?)
Town!Chill would admit it if they got one, but they would never get it in a scenario where profii was killed before giving it (right?)

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: tchill13

Just for now, Gonna see what everyone has to say. Wondering if it's beneficial to leave him alive for the next day too but not sure that's a good idea if nobody can claim a kill otherwise

[Dunnstral]

killed before giving it

no, that's not a thing, he'd still get the fruit

profii would have had to have been both shot by a vig, and roleblocked by the mafia

[UnaBombaH]

I think as long as nobody claims vig, tchill is scum. If somebody claims vig, tchill is town

..meaning that a Vig implies a scum!roleblocker too?
Or meaning that profii would've died BEFORE giving the fruit to Chill?

[UnaBombaH]

profii would have had to have been both shot by a vig, and roleblocked by the mafia

OK then, helps with solving I think.

[Dunnstral]

profii can't die before giving the fruit to tchill, order of operations

[Dunnstral]

OK, this is a normal game so it uses natural action resolution: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ormal_Game

Normal Guidelines
Unless the mod states otherwise in their rules, all Normal games must use NAR. The Golden Rule of NAR applies, but just to be extra clear, a list of all normal roles and their order under NAR has been created.

Commute - Commuter
Blocking - Roleblocker, Rolestopper
Jailkeep - Jailkeeper
Protection - Doctor, Bodyguard
Miscellaneous - Neighborizer, Friendly Neighbor
Kill - Mafia factional kill, SK factional kill, Strongman, Vigilante
Role Investigation - Cop, Gunsmith, Role Cop, Vanilla Cop, Neapolitan
Action Investigation - Tracker, Watcher, Voyeur, Follower, Motion Detector
If only one of the actions affects another, resolve that one first, regardless of the positions on the list.


Killing
Killing doesn't stop the actions of the dead player. (Imagine that all kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.) This means that kills generally do not affect other actions for the purpose of the Golden Rule.

I believe profii's role is "Miscellaneous" since he is a fruit vendor, even though his modifier is weak, so he goes before killing actions

[Azurit]

Does it matter wheter he is Miscellanoeus or not? I think that's the important part:

Killing doesn't stop the actions of the dead player. (Imagine that all kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.) This means that kills generally do not affect other actions for the purpose of the Golden Rule.

I'm going to vote tchill at EoD.

Rereading Performer now.

[Morality]

Does it matter wheter he is Miscellanoeus or not? I think that's the important part:

Killing doesn't stop the actions of the dead player. (Imagine that all kills happen at the end of the night, and everyone pulls the trigger simultaneously.) This means that kills generally do not affect other actions for the purpose of the Golden Rule.

I'm going to vote tchill at EoD.

Rereading Performer now.

Town points for azur, meaning ruby is going above azur for final scum

[Azurit]

Well, what I found out:
- When Performer had to decide between Profii and Koki, it seems like he had to decide between two townies.
- Retroperspecitv his long read list was kinda wierd. He called not to lynch null reads and read people like Ruby and chill as null, because "nothing stood out". At the same time he suspected Una, Yaesayer, dunn and Mari for not having enough content. I think performer just did not want to lynch his buddies (Tchill and Ruby). I also think the slot from Yeasayer is not a buddy, because he could have read him as null very easy. It feels more like "having the change to lynch him".
- Performer wrote about one line about everyone, but explained much more about the worst, siv and lucky. I'd evaluate him as a scum player who is fine with "reading" townies, but does not feel comfortabel to operate with other scum players. That would implicate that those three people are town, but it's my weakest result.
- is in the waggon on dunnstral at EoD

Conclusion of his posts:
Ruby and Tchill are more likely to be scum.
Very likely to be town = Yeasayer > Luck Otter, Dunn >> Una >> SIV, the worst > a little bit townie

His read list is in the spoiler

Spoiler:

Not sure why the host didn’t put my v/la in the votecount updates….I plan to be v/la for every weekend. Anyway, I’ll address specific questions and general wondering regarding me, all as one post. I’m not into posting streams and streams of wall posts, since I do a lot of phone posting rather than computer posting.

The people I don’t see myself voting or lynching up to this point: Lucky, & null slots.
----------
Worst: he voted prof, he spoke of checking my meta, later says this is his iconic townplay meta in the way he's been posting. All that meta talk just doesn’t sound townie, when combined with his pg 12 interactions with prof & mari (he still has a tr on mari). His continued vote on me is still mystifying, and not in a good way. Yet his scummy behavior to me, I wondered - is this too scummy to be scum? I considered that but no, my read is the same on him. I don't believe this is a case of that slot being too scummy to be scum. What's worrisome to me is nobody seems to believes me, but I don't like sitting my vote on a slot for this long when there are other productive cases. Mentioning the wagoning on koki by saying he doesn't want to go that route because he can get very annoying if town... what in the world? That just isn't a good reason.

Dunn: minimalistic post content and not seeing why he thinks tchill has an agenda, that he’s pushing an agenda.

Una: as someone I’ve noticed was an IC before, I find it suspect that he puts out a ton of joke posts. His vote on prof looked like a pressure vote so that’s alright, but his posts are mostly odd. Not a tr. I want to see what he'll post, which he said he'll do by tomorrow.

Lucky:

in terms of why worst over prof at the moment, I believe I explained why already about that. Also, what questions from 170? Sorry if I missed them but I don’t recall questions that needed answering anymore, as I believe I already addressed them. I believed Lucky's thought process to be from town on his page 7 post & based on pgs 7-8 interactions with Siv, I voted Siv and at the time, Lucky was my only tr iirc. Still had worst as an sr but leaving my vote on him and no one voting that, was getting us nowhere, so we needed more productive pressure. Later Lucky votes me because I didn’t answer him…? An odd progression but I can see town doing this, I’ve done something like this before too, so I wouldn’t say that’s scummy. My tr on him stays the same. Bringing up una’s “lurking” so that he should be wagoned, makes absolutely no sense. Being on v/la is NAI, otherwise Mari, Una, and I would be widely sr. The question of “if scum, what does siv benefit from giving mari a tr,” to that I’m saying that I didn’t have a tr on mari from the way she’s posting (scummy), so the fact that he did a tr on her just sounds fabricated. How it benefits him in the end, is anybody’s guess – we’d have to ask the scum team that. Why would siv tr mari anyway at that point?

Tchill:

nothing stood out in my skim about this slot so I put him as null. Voted prof, then me, later voted Dunn. Has reasonable posts here and there, but one of them that’s just plain eye opening was how he thought Siv was doing decent work at that point on pg 9.

Yeasayer: forgot this guy was even in this game anymore. Looking at his ISO, it’s been half a day phase & by now, he should’ve input a little more, is my expectation. Siv mentioned he got a strong feeling this slot was interested in game solving…but they were only what, 3 light posts in? Definitely getting more suspect about this slot.

Ruby:

null. About the same as my thoughts on Tchill.

Mari: posts song lyrics and makes a few substantial posts, like the back to back ones regarding her Siv & Dunn votes. I love songs too but the ISO look largely fluff, such as the super bare pg 11 post only about worst being null, and asking others for content.

Azurit: suspicion on this slot has maintained, there's no progression for me about this slot from their posts. Azurit, readslist?

Koki: either he’s being threatened to treat prof as the biggest scum of the Earth, or he has the strongest gut feel ever regarding prof, because he has focused on him for all day. Mentioned getting night protection from pr, which raised my eyebrows as I mentioned before.

Prof:

first wagon of the day but 1st two votes didn’t even look serious. Throughout the day my read on him has wavered multiple times from town mislynch to scummy, and back and forth. When I got to pgs 12-13, my read on him changed to tr. I can agree with what he & tchill brought up regarding koki, which is why I'll
VOTE: Kokichi

Siv: what further is suspect is how he read Azur’s rvs posting as awkward town. In rvs, isn’t the purpose supposed to be mostly if not completely fake?? Like if I claimed 1-shot commuter in rvs and voted myself in the 1st post of the game, that’s an rvs case. Bringing up that mafia used to bring up meta talk can be suspicious, yes, but it’s if they have recent meta, they can post about that to manipulate. I don’t even have any recent meta, so Siv calling me mafia because of meta - suspicious. It looks he twisted my words. Out of thing air, he added me to his tr list, which I honestly have no clue why.

[Ruby Red]

eh fuck it i look like the last scum anyways, heres my contribution to this game:

i hardclaim tracker, tracked tchill to mariar last night

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: tchill13

[Azurit]

I've reread Ruby now. Many opinions and only a few explanations makes it hard to read them. But there are two things that pinged me:

First one: they town read Lucky very early (what is fine), but later in the game Ruby they repead the read againg and again and act like that would be something totaly new (they say "you can be town for now" for exampel). It is only a very small point, but sometimes it seems like Ruby does not have new content, so they repead older reads to camouflage their lack of content. At the end of the day they you can see that behavior again when Ruby calls out the scum team to times with very little changes and a little bit later a lynch pool with almost the same people.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Tchill13 Let's see just how tchill you are.

I don't make anything out of the unabombah vote from ruby. They made a regular vote first and the number vote (clearly a joke) second, so I wouldn't take it as hiding a wagon vote.

Azurit, is your Dunnstral vote random?

humor check
logical check
questioning check

after a great deal of consideration i've decided that i'll be treating luckyotter as town until proven otherwise. congratulations.

Note that it takes two post to present the first read.

VOTE: Tchill13 Let's see just how tchill you are.

I don't make anything out of the unabombah vote from ruby. They made a regular vote first and the number vote (clearly a joke) second, so I wouldn't take it as hiding a wagon vote.

Azurit, is your Dunnstral vote random?

humor check
logical check
questioning check

after a great deal of consideration i've decided that i'll be treating luckyotter as town until proven otherwise. congratulations.

doesn't seemm like a great dwal of consideration tbh.

are you accusing me of something?

that being said, you raise an interesting point. after even more consideration, i'm willing to reclassify to "town but possible deepwolf".

And why don't you try to make anything happen?

i (no offense) really hate every single thing about this post. will circle back to it later but need to touch on something else first.

on first read and after looking strictly at their content (particularly the stuff just before koki's initial comment and vote, all of which i'm assuming must've contributed to an idea about his play that i don't fully understand), i don't really get the read kokichi had on profil either. @koki, enlighten me if you'd please. after continuing on, i get the feeling you were just sort of baiting him for a reaction but in case you weren't and this is entirely earnest, i'd like to see where you're coming from.

in the meantime, VOTE: Azurit. their initial posts came across as very noncommittal to me and seemed like somebody trying to present themselves as participating while doing the bare minimum, albeit very awkwardly.

you can be town for now

Second one: Ruby starts to talk about deep wolfs very early. Later in the game they soudenly say, that it's not a good idea to try to lynch deep wolfs first. That's not consistent and even more it seems like Ruby uses to deep wolf argument to throw shades on MariaR and Lucky at the beginning of the game. And later on they use it just the other way round to protect Performer from being lynched and lynch Dunn instead of him. According to my reads they always use the argument pro scum and against townies.

Spoiler:

VOTE: Tchill13 Let's see just how tchill you are.

I don't make anything out of the unabombah vote from ruby. They made a regular vote first and the number vote (clearly a joke) second, so I wouldn't take it as hiding a wagon vote.

Azurit, is your Dunnstral vote random?

humor check
logical check
questioning check

after a great deal of consideration i've decided that i'll be treating luckyotter as town until proven otherwise. congratulations.

doesn't seemm like a great dwal of consideration tbh.

are you accusing me of something?

that being said, you raise an interesting point. after even more consideration, i'm willing to reclassify to "town but possible deepwolf".

maria was page 4 deepwolf.

dunn is objectively wolfy this game. going after someone like azurit or (imo) performer is just looking for a deepwolf before the just wolfy players are dead.

that lynches town a majority of the time and then you're left in lylo with scumfucks that should've been lynched d1.

[Azurit]

Ruby, why did you promote to vote dunn, but Track tchill?

[UnaBombaH]

...so Chill+Ruby the remaining scum?

[the worst]

Ruby, why did you promote to vote dunn, but Track tchill?

Azurit please before Ruby answers, tell me
what is the point of this question? in any world?

[Azurit]

I want to find out wheter I can trust ruby or not.

[the worst]

I want a detailed explanation of what you expect to gain from that question after she replies pl0x

[Dunnstral]

I believe Ruby red's claim if there are no other investigative roles

[Dunnstral]

Right now we have:

odd-night rolecop
weak fruit vendor (acts as an investigative)
tracker
2-shot gunsmith (presumably scum)

Gonna think on it actually, seems slightly powerful but I could see it working

[the worst]

only current concern is exactly why scum gunsmith exists if no town shooty roles so *shrug*
ohey wasn't profii oneshot?

[Dunnstral]

He could be fake claiming to make vig seem more likely, he also said full vig shouldn't claim

[UnaBombaH]

I believe Ruby red's claim if there are no other investigative roles

..don't think we should yet go for a massclaim here though..

So in other news - we lynch Chill today no matter what, and we just need to sort Ruby outside of their claim. (obv. Chill flipping town = scum!Ruby)

[the worst]

ooOoooOOOo nice

nah we're fine, we already had a soft guilty on tchill who was in scum PoE and now we have a less soft guilty
ruby COULD be kamikaze scum but seems a waste when tch is already designated lynch today


pedit: v v true
pedit2: una #goodposting