Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Alchemist21]

I'm about to reread Lazy's and Kokichi's ISO.

Right now it seems like everyone in the game has something or another I could point to and say, "this person is Town," so I probably need to do a reset on my reads.

[davesaz]

Regarding targeting, what else would a scum fruit vendor do other than target people the "quests" should go to?

[Kokichi Oma]

Oh right Alchemist.
I have found that Kokichi Oma, from personal experience, tends to be scumread when town, however I have also noticed a distinct lack of activity and "doing stuff" in this game, but im not sure if it means scum as I spectated a single scum game of Kokichi Oma and he was kinda "doing stuff" in that game.

Suffice to say im conflicted enough to not give a definite townread but if he's last scum, i'd expect him to be doing more towards moving the scum wincon forward.

Yes I tried to bus my strong arm day 2.

[Alchemist21]

I doubt it's a simple fruit vendor role tbh. It's publicly announced and called a quest. I actually give items away that do stuff and it's not publicly announced. If it's Town, why bother with that when my role exists, when it's basically the same but better? And if scum, why give something so useless to scum? Unless you think he has another ability? And why even come up with these ridiculous criteria for the quests if they weren't true instead of just saying "guys the quests don't actually do anything they're just flavor." That would have made Jungle a lot more credible to people than fucking up the quest we spent a Day trying to do.

[Alchemist21]

Oh right Alchemist.
I have found that Kokichi Oma, from personal experience, tends to be scumread when town, however I have also noticed a distinct lack of activity and "doing stuff" in this game, but im not sure if it means scum as I spectated a single scum game of Kokichi Oma and he was kinda "doing stuff" in that game.

Suffice to say im conflicted enough to not give a definite townread but if he's last scum, i'd expect him to be doing more towards moving the scum wincon forward.

Yes I tried to bus my strong arm day 2.

That same slot was also in a 1v1 with the scum role cop D1, which is why my Townread of you is in doubt now.

[davesaz]

No, you don't get it. People think the's town because of the quests, and for no other reason. That's smart scum play.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

More importantly if it's a scum fruit vendor why not let it die D1 instead of the bodyswapper?

[Kokichi Oma]

If you really think me v maria was SvS then idk what to tell you. I even pointed out that she does silly gambits as scum, and linked you our game to prove it in our hydra game

[davesaz]

I issued this challenge before, and I'm renewing it. Erase the quests from the game. Read Jungle

strictly on posting

.
There is absolutely nothing town about that slot if you remove the quests.

[Kokichi Oma]

Oh right Alchemist.
I have found that Kokichi Oma, from personal experience, tends to be scumread when town, however I have also noticed a distinct lack of activity and "doing stuff" in this game, but im not sure if it means scum as I spectated a single scum game of Kokichi Oma and he was kinda "doing stuff" in that game.

Suffice to say im conflicted enough to not give a definite townread but if he's last scum, i'd expect him to be doing more towards moving the scum wincon forward.

Yes I tried to bus my strong arm day 2.

That same slot was also in a 1v1 with the scum role cop D1, which is why my Townread of you is in doubt now.

Maria and I have played together and I've read her correctly so I did reaction tests to see how shed react and I showed you why she was scum for them. Not my fault no one wanted to lynch her. Pjm had me fooled though. Not gonna lie

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.

[Alchemist21]

I issued this challenge before, and I'm renewing it. Erase the quests from the game. Read Jungle

strictly on posting

.
There is absolutely nothing town about that slot if you remove the quests.

Actually I was Townreading him on D1 before the quests came up because he had a certain tone to his posts that I thought was Towny. Like he was pretty vocal at the time and didn't seem like he cared if he brought attention to himself or not. "fast-and-loose" is how I want to describe it.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I guess i'll quote punreader's explanation:

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE:

I explained this before, but perhaps I can simplify; calling Jungle pun is a violation of occam's razor when you take motivations into mind.
To start, let's establish a baseline.

• The motivation of a town player is to further the gamestate such that town can identify who is town/pun and coordinate to lynch and shut down pun.
  
• The motivation of a pun player is to further the gamestate such that pun are positioned to control the town. In a typical pun player, this can be subdivided into three motivations in this approximate strength:
  1. Survive as pun
     
  2. Protect punbuddies
     
  3. Control the town
     
  4. Shut the town down
  (That is not the strength they should be in, but it is the strength pun players play them in.)

Then, with these motivations in mind, examine REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE's actions.
REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE claimed a role which, if specific conditions were fulfilled, would reveal the alignment of a player.
As town, the motivation of this is self-evident; further the gamestate to identify who is town/pun.
As pun, this requires it to be a move for towncred, as a subset of survivalism.

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE then failed to deliver on this promise.
As town, the motivation of this is self-evident; it was a human error.
As pun, this move would require REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE deliberately putting himself in harm's way (violating survivalism), remove his influence from the town (violating controlling the town), for the sake of not giving away a piece of information not likely to directly harm him (not contributing to protecting a punbuddy), which doesn't shut the town down as much as it denies them a service he had the ability to deny them simply by never using it/never claiming it.

If he were pun who intended to not give the service to the town, why not just neglect to claim it or even never use it?
By claiming it and failing to use it properly, he is placing himself in harm's way for no visible benefit.

This is furthered by his usage on Ouroboros.
If REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE is town, the motivation for targeting Ouroboros is self-evident. Ouroboros is the same type of player as Impossibear; a competent hydra in a strong position to gamesolve, and REALMEN had no way of knowing Ouroboros would be the nightkill.

If REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE is pun, the motivation for targeting Ouroboros requires giving up on surviving (as targeting the nightkill will garner further suspicion beyond the already-existing suspicion to come for the failure on Impossibear, setting himself up for the lynch), controlling the town, and protecting punbuddies for the sake of denying the town a service.

Yes, it is possible for REALMEN to be pun, but it requires navigating a labyrinth of justifications.

The simpler answer is he's town.

[Alchemist21]

Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.

Wilky basically has an inno on him though since he got blocked last night. I don't think there's more than 1 scum left.

[davesaz]

Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.

There won't be a lylo if you let me solve the game.

[Kokichi Oma]

Lynching you is game solved

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.

Wilky basically has an inno on him though since he got blocked last night. I don't think there's more than 1 scum left.

What makes you think he got blocked last night?

[YT2980]

Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.

Aside from dave, who is likely today’s lynch, I do tentatively agree to this plan. I see happenstance where wilky could be lying about his own role and the lack of a result to get towncred, given he hasn’t produced any seriously townfeeling content of his own, and due to my own PoE.

However, I am not OK with lynching wilky today, the next day phase, or probably not the following unless I have serious reason to because of his possible investigative role. We’ll see what happens there. I also have RMOJ at the top of my scumspect list, and I am definitely down to lead a lynchwagon there. Still, I’d like more content out of both slots that convince me they are pro-town if they are not scum, especially as we move further into this game.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

btw if at any point I see GIF's post that Jungle's being replaced im just lynching that today.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

They were active enough during the last night phase to give me a quest after all.

[davesaz]

Well regardless all of dave, Jungle and wilky need to be policy lynched before LyLo.

Wilky basically has an inno on him though since he got blocked last night. I don't think there's more than 1 scum left.

Explain how it's not possible that the whole thing is a sham?

I think town is more likely than scum, but I'm unwilling to call it an inno.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

A block if true is def an inno if there's 1 scum remaining. Strongman is dead after all.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

I'm just wondering what makes him think he was blocked last night.

[davesaz]

@MOD: prod time?

[davesaz]

A block if true is def an inno if there's 1 scum remaining. Strongman is dead after all.

Logic fail. Strongman has absolutely nothing to do with slow cop. If the slow cop is even real.