Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Gustavo]

I’ll try again to stop posting for a while. I’ve been working from home cause I’m sick and have had extra time on my hands. This weekend my son has tournaments so I should not be online.

[Tchill13]

im saying nos or gus lol.

[Nosferatu]

oh well thank you

[teacher]

again, anyone want to play while I catchup?

[Garmr]

@Tommy edgan

Have a question for you, have you town read gustav? If so when did you first town read him and why?

Answer this please.

[teacher]

Im assuming thats not for me?

[Garmr]

Im assuming thats not for me?

Nope tommy edgan

[teacher]

Im not asking you to move (Ive said Id hammer invis) but who is your next best? Im trying to sort outside my favorite right now.

[Garmr]

Im not asking you to move (Ive said Id hammer invis) but who is your next best? Im trying to sort outside my favorite right now.

Well tchill is my next best. Before I was dead set he was scum but as the day has dragged on i'm a little less sure of myself. I haven't gave him the bbt/gusta treatment and put him in my notes yet.

[teacher]

Thanks. FWIW, youve moved into a townread. I especially appreciaed the unstructured notes becuase it helped me see how you think, and I could evaluate it against the more structured posts. If you managed to draft that for that effect as scum - well done.

[teacher]

Im entering my V/LA long weekend. I will def try to get in at least one long read/analysis sessions, but cant promise much more than that and some light prodges.

*******

@Invis: Why did you feel the need to repeat a short townread of Gus twice at 542 and 605? Also, your GEO vote is picking up steam, but he has posted alot more since you voted him for fluff - how do you feel now, and why?

@Nos - Im not asking you who it is yet, but can you elaborate on why you arent pushing your strongest scumread? Also, way back when you said that Invis's first vote on GEO was a bad post, but now youre there on a fairly bald vote. Why?

@Tchill: re 612/615: Why does scum only have one good player? Why is Gus on both town and potential good scum lists (and not the others)?

Finally, what will be my last post @ Gustavo unless he specifically requests a response.

Now if you want me to answer your original question, I need you to answer my follow up. If you don't want my answer, why are you bringing it up again in an attempt to discredit me?
.......
You aren't the first to accuse me of playing surface level, so clearly I must be a surface level player and I'm ok with that.

Apparently we wont agree to disagree, as I had proposed in my last post to you. I dont think my read on you is moving anymore, so I wanted to drop our spat and try to sort others better.

Regardless, contrary to the quote, I did answer your follow up on what you missed -- strong buddying. I also did want you answer my original question, and I did scumread you for not doing it. You think you did it and you say you didnt see any buddying. Fair enough. We had a communication disconnect (whether you answered or not) that I scumread you for. Youre having these communication disconnects with several players (to respond, because you asked in the part of the post I ellided, you think lefty lied by implying you scummed Invis. I think Lefty's conclusion was a fair read to take from your actual statement of I dont townread Invis. But again, communication difference being blown WAY up). I wish you were willing to just say - we view those events differently. Invis said he viewed this degree of stubbornness as town. I take the other side of the WIFOM on it, and see it is as scum who doesnt want to appear afraid of attention, particularly when it hasnt actually been leading to votes. Indeed, the difficulty of getting a wagon going on you despite (as GEO noted) some broader interest having been expressed is.....interesting.

But, like I said, I really want to move on since I dont think Im getting more without a flip. Before doing so, I will add a personal and offtopic note. I did not mean to suggest at all that you were playing only the surface level. The ad hominem nature of the attack by lefty after this quote was just .... shitty. What I was trying to suggest with the surface level comment is that it is very clear you are modulating your personality for the game (surface level - how you want to appear - robotic; peel back the layers and get to the real personality - heat).

[Garmr]

Finally got through the two biggest posters iso's. BBT and Gustavo. It took me this long to read up on gustavo.

Gosh gustavo all you have done is whinge.

1.You scum read people for calling your ideals scummy and say "if they are towns they are just village idiots" to justify a vote on them. You litrally tell invisble that bad logic doesn't = scum.

2.You constantly defend your own appearance even throwing shade at others to defend yourself (post 554).

3.You rarely show any reads on people unless they engage with you. Your not proactively looking outside your little sphere.

Your actions are really bad that I have trouble pulling alignment out of them. Your actions are so bad it causes doubts in my head that you are scum making it hard to see your alignment.

Also if you are fine with a early day and lynching a VI then why are you so opposed to lynching Invisibility. Because in your eyes invisibility is low hanging fruit is the difference because his town? Oh wait earlier his scum he only becomes low hanging fruit when you need to defend yourself. So invisibility is scum and low hanging fruit but it's scummy to vote him???

Can I ask in your words how do you think your actions are contributing towards town?

ok Let me respond to this

1. I assume you are referring to performer here, and I think this is kind of unfair. Performer is using something non game relevant and implying it is. He is basically saying my opinion of game speed is alignment indicative when it isn't. I have to make an opinion on him based on that. I don't see why town would do something like that so to me I think it is scum trying to cast shade on me. If I am somehow wrong, I absolutely believe he is a VI. This imo is different than the invisible situation. If performer thought I was scum or scummy for my random votes, then I could accuse him of bad logic. Using my opinion on game speed isn't bad logic, it is straight up stupidity as my opinion is completely unrelated to my alignment.

2. I don't really understand this one, and there is no 554. The closest is maybe 544 and I am not shading anyone in 544.

3. I am not really sure how to respond to this one. Early on I definitely gave some reads, and made posts which would lead people to infer my reads on others. If somebody doesn't want to assume, they can ask me what my read is on somebody. This i think is kind of my playstyle. Ideally i'd love to sit back and do my own thing and look for people who are being genuinely curious and who are just faking it. When lefty asked me who my town reads were, that I felt was faking it. If he read my iso he knows for sure byron and bbt are town reads so why ask that? Why is he interested in who I am town reading vs who I am scum reading? I also disagree with you that I am not looking outside of my little sphere, you are making an assumption based on what you see. I am also the kind of person who sees bad posts, I am going to speak up. I will definitely do that when they are about me but I also do them when they are about others (hence my posts questioning byron earlier, me doing it again with invisibility and with lefty)


Let's make one thing clear. I am not voting a VI. I am voting scum. Performer is 199% without a doubt scum in my mind and I already said I am not voting anyone else. I specifically said earlier i was death tunneling him. I guess you missed that in my iso?

My actions are helping town because I am voting to lynched confirmed scum. In the process of my death tunneling, I am still reading and responding to posts, I am still developing reads. Just because I don't want to vote invisibility doesn't mean I am not helping town. I don't even know if I scum read invisibility. There are 2/3 people i'd rather lynch over invisibility.

If performer didn't say what he said, this would probably be a completely different game. When I get angry the wheels fall off and Performer's posts definitely made me angry. Lefty's inconsistencies and calling me scum for going after "low hanging fruit" yet town reading everyone else going after the same people makes me angry.

1.It's bad logic I will admit but it's not that bad it has to come from scum. I think reasoning is up to the individual and some individuals will vote people for the stupidest reasons. One game I was death tunneled as town by another townie because "I said to be honest" a lot and that was apparently scummy. Look performer has a history of shitty reasons to vote. Look at his vote on me for apparently lurking when the game started 2 hours earlier. I did vote him for other reasons but looking back they were a bit of a stretch. That's normally what happens when trying to break out of rvs through. My views on him now are null but I would still argue against your reasoning even if I was scum reading him since tainted logic can ruin a wagon.

2.sorry wrong post 534

invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher.
VOTE: invisibility

and why doesn't performer get accused of going after "low hanging fruit" also?

where is the consistency in your accusations?

Invisibility (4): Garmr, Performer, ByronVilla, BlueBloodedToffee

Why haven't you accused these 4 people of going after low hanging fruit? I never voted invisibility and you accuse me of it, but these 4 are actually trying to lynch him

Garmr - You say he hasn't done anything AI but he is voting low hanging fruit...
Performer - I'd say he is your top town read considering you defense of him yet he is voting low hanging fruit...
Byron - You also have a town read
BBT - you have also said is a town read.

how do you justify this blatant contradiction on such a massive level?

Pointing out other people rubs me the wrong way. It's double edge, one edge is "these people aren't considered scummy why am" I and the other is "you should scum read these people" Both messages are extremely bad and when you scratch the surface a little you can find plenty of reasons to treat why people would be different.

3.Yeah you have some superficial reads outside your circle but most of the interactions you put effort into are the ones that poke you. A reason I don't automatically jump on to scumread you for it is I have been like this in the past as town and it took me someone else to point it out to me.

So you keep calling invisibility a low hanging fruit and seem to be persistently pushing against a invisibility lynch (I noticed you said it looked bad that bbt voted invisibility.) But you can't really town read him and said some of his actions seem scummy in the past.



I'm going to be honest it seems like you don't care at all if invisibility gets lynched or not, but you will willingly push against his wagon not because you think his town. But you do it to prove a point so you can improve your own self image. That's how it comes across to me.

[Tchill13]

If the performer wagon wouldn't have stalled like it has I would think pretty clearly that invis is scum. I feel pretty good that performer maybe scum.

[Garmr]

you can find plenty of reasons why some people would treat others different.

fixed

[Nosferatu]

Im not asking you who it is yet, but can you elaborate on why you arent pushing your strongest scumread? Also, way back when you said that Invis's first vote on GEO was a bad post, but now youre there on a fairly bald vote. Why?

I'm not pushing one cause I don't have one, not concealing my top scumread for ~reasons~, that would be weird and dumb

As a general rule I don't really join a wagon cause its my top scumread, generally weigh each scum read equally in that I don't care which one gets lynched first. That's not to say there's not an order, but I don't really have a strict order as to my scumreads right now.

I'm not voting GEO for that bad post in the past nor am I voting him for any new reasons. It's a pressure vote to help sort. Questioning him is unnecessary.

If the performer wagon wouldn't have stalled like it has I would think pretty clearly that invis is scum. I feel pretty good that performer maybe scum.

See, you can't say that because BBT forced the wagon into stalling.

[Lefty]

^ I agree with Nos on that irt the Performer wagon. BBT essentially made that untouchable and the fact no one has touched it since reinforces that I think both Peformer and BBT are Town.

[Lefty]

Also just not to ruffle feathers, I want to put out there that my language is just how I talk. Hopefully nobody reads my tone wrongly because I use curse words.

That said, Gus is still a crybaby and I will mercilessly tease him post game if I’m right on my reads and we are both Town. Vice versa applies too. I don’t hold grudges and if anyone feels I am being abrasive please refer back to this post. I say fuck and shit like any other adjective.

I’m not sure how MS handles this tell, but seeing as how Gus is nearly at his post count on D1 as his recently completely scum game, I sort of doubt he’s scum here. I’m of the type that don’t believe scum (minus a very select number of players IME) can maintain that sort of activity.

[Lefty]

@Nos - do you have scum reads? Like your philosophy is cool and zen af but you haven’t expressed any sort of suspicion that I remember thus far.

[Lefty]

I’m officially more open to the idea that Teacher could be scum.

GLGL

[Lefty]

Skim notably I don’t see why Invis saying Gus looks Town for two different reasons in two different instances is something to question. Like Invis just strikes me as a player who reads stuff and says whatever comes to mind at the time and nothing more.

[Lefty]

UNVOTE: Gosrir

VOTE: Teacher

[Gustavo]

Pointing out other people rubs me the wrong way. It's double edge, one edge is "these people aren't considered scummy why am" I and the other is "you should scum read these people" Both messages are extremely bad and when you scratch the surface a little you can find plenty of reasons to treat why people would be different.

Pointing out suspicious behavior is something I’ve done all game though. You have to admit I make an excellent point in that post. I made such an excellent point lefty ignores it and drops his scum read on me. It’s kind of frustrating you’re the only one to react to it and somehow your interpretation is that I’m scummy, not him.

I’ve lost all hope in this game. Town would have been better off speeding through day 1 like I suggested. Now I’m fairly confident this game is going to end up like my scum game that just ended. Perfect scum victory.

[Gustavo]

So you keep calling invisibility a low hanging fruit

I don’t think I ever called invisibility low hanging fruit. Lefty said I was scum because of my attacks on low hanging fruit. One of the low hanging fruit was invisibility. I never even voted him, I merely pointed out that he was guilty of the same thing he was accusing Byron of doing. That was me attacking low hanging fruit apparently

But he’s town reading (or was) everyone who was voting invisibility.

You tell me how that makes sense. If lhf is low hanging fruit and going after him is suspicious, why haven’t we heard lefty attack the other poeple voting him?

It was immediately after me pointing that out that lefty dropped his push on me and resorted to adhom attacks.

Who gets backed into a corner and starts making it personal? Town or scum?

[Garmr]

of frustrating you’re the only one to react to it and somehow your interpretation is that I’m scummy, not him.

I’ve lost all hope in this game. Town would have been better off speeding through day 1 like I

Have to be honest despite my brain telling me that your actions are scummy my gut feeling is unsure. But I'm going to say drop the victim complex seriously.

Also your logic is terrible and something I would see in a newbie game.

If someone is scum reading you for a action pointing out others doing the same action doesn't excuse your action. Also the same action can be done for different reasons by different people.

Reading through your iso is fraustrating.

[Gustavo]

But I wasn’t doing the action I was accused of...