Large Normal 212: Korts' Geriatrics - Game Over @1831

[Momrangal]

So.

Page 6 and my only question is why Axlerod lives. From those few pages, I see suspicion towards his slot, a light town read from MOI (not sure why) and despite people scum reading him it doesn't look like he was probably wagoned? Based off Eddie being wagoned and KMD somehow getting lynched

[Momrangal]

Ok

Made it to the top of page 10 and while I'm not sure I completely absorbed everything...


I disagree with my slots read on MoI and I think MOU and Old man are likely TvT.

Even someone on his Caliber, I don't think attacking his ego and the reaction to it is something he could fake and considering that, it would be pretty easy for MOI!Scum to get pretty attached to that and devolve the game state

Not sure what's going on with the Chamber slot but I'm reading town there prior to his replace out.

Was hoping to get more insight on Cooldog claim by now but I'm... Not. Slight scum read there, and I'm seeing pj being thrown around (now ginngie) and I don't even remember seeing him post.

Pine town?

Hito?town. I played with him once ages ago and this doesn't feel like the same Hito who confidently lynched Vi (iirc gotta pull the game back up) but I can follow his thought process.

Taking a break here, more later

[Ginngie]

I can deal with a mom slot

[Eddie Cane]

linguine mara chiaro

[Axelrod]

In reply to Axel –

Regarding it being “hard to play” when we have 4 replacements – this is factually correct and absolutely not an excuse for Town players to not be putting in effort. You have a whole Days posts to analyze and two flips with which to parse players. Just because there are empty slots who you can’t directly interact with doesn’t mean you can’t see what the previous inhabitants posted before for digestion. Frankly it is a cop-out response and why despite my head saying you logically are more likely Town my gut screams coasting scum. And as to the questions –

1. Are you not reading the thread? This information has already been provided in the game by myself and Tammy. To re-iterate – I rarely delegate my reads because there are rarely players in the games I play who I would trust to sheep before even considering whether I Town read them. “The Thaw” (Mini Normal modded by Nexus) is a recent example cited by Tammy – I sheeped Grey on a read early on while trying to get sorted with him. I’ve also cited the Nearly Vanilla game where I worked hand in hand with Tammy (part of a Tammy / Nacho hydra) to vet reads. As to my thoughts on Firebringer now that he flaked out – I have zero respect for his ability to read me as my evidence presented showed.

2. KMD’s claim required no response. He claimed VT. I don’t care how Town you think that is you don’t let a VT claim who played suspect enough to get to L-1 or whatever to claim live. That’s Mafia 101. Proper play Day 1 in that situation is hammer that slot 100 out of 100 times. It prevents scum from claiming VT under the WIFOM that “Only Town claims VT” (which is a bad stance, seen scum claim it before and have done so myself). It also prevents the possibility another Town who isn’t a VT gets run up to claim. Frankly he never should have claimed at all which is the proper play for a VT in his situation Day1.

Now … some questions for you.

1. Why should I not see these questions as scum perspective filler? You are either asking for information already stated in thread or asking pointless theory questions. What sort of response to these do you think would possibly “help” you find scum?

2. Why are you softly piddling around talking about the KMD wagon when you don’t know Lycan’s alignment and seem to be leaning that it is scum? Why do you think it is reasonable for scum to flash wagon KMD if you think Lycan is scum when you were widely scum-read and could have been lynched and have already stated you would be a “better mislynch” for scum?

3. What do you think about my reasoning about you and Lycan sharing the same alignment? What is your read on insanity and what do you think of the wagon that developed on that slot?

4. What do you think of the discrepancy between Firebringer's claimed ability to read me and the evidence I presented and what do you think that Fire refused to engage on that point when I refuted it?

I already said it was a cop out. However, the simple reality is that my motivation to play this game has tanked hard, and that is kind of just the way it is. You saying it's no "excuse" is wrong. That is the excuse. You might not like it, but there is it. I'm still here, and frankly, I'm also playing with about as much effort as anyone else atm. Thank you for answering my questions.

I have not re-read this thread in quite a while, so if your history of sheeping people you read as Town was something discussed between you and Tammy before, then okay, I did not remember that.

The KMD thing is more relevant, in as much as, I personally feel rather strongly that when you vote someone - especially in a deadline situation like that - you say why. If they have made a claim, you give your opinion on the claim. You say "i believe that" and then, presumably, don't vote them. Or you say, that's "BS" and then, presumably, you do vote them, or keep voting them. You can also say "I don't know if I believe that or not, but we're in a deadline situation and I think this is still the correct vote." You just didn't do any of those things. You appeared to default to simply your previous vote, without accounting for the new information/situation. Frankly, as you even suggest, it could be possible to believe the claim but conclude that you still had to vote the person, in as much as it was close to deadline and VT isn't confirmable anyway. You didn't say that either though. I will disagree strongly with your statement that you

always

lynch the VT claimer. That's just wrong.

1) So, the responses you might have given to this question - it seemed to me - were:

a) Yes, this is something I do all the time, here's where I did it. It's a neutral response. But in as much as it's a play you do as Town, it's then not something that signifys scum, whatever Firebringer seemed to think.
b) No, I don't typically do this as Town, so I can't give you any examples, but (I would look for an explanation) here's why I decided to do it in this case. That might be a Town response depending on the explanation, but it's probably also what you would say as scum. And the way you say it could matter.
c) This is something I have done when I was scum before, here are the times, but (explanation). That's a Town response.

I gather what you are saying here is that, while it's

rare

, you have done it as Town, in whatever games those were? Are you acknowledging also doing it as scum, or has that not actually happened?

2) I don't even know what you're getting at about "soft piddling" the KMD wagon. I'm being fairly transparent about all this. I was looking at all the votes and how they happened and making judgments on how likely those votes - given whatever reasons were given or not as the case may be - could have been Town vs. scum motivated. Knowing Lycan's alignment isn't essential for this - it's still going to be educated guessing - though it would be rather more useful. I'm trying to look at it from both perspectives of Lycan-scum and Lycan-town. I don't know his alignment. What I think is that the

odds

lean towards him being scum, vs just our bad luck and unfortunate coincidence. The number of people who seem perfectly willing to accept that explanation is making me hesitate though. And possibly it's just correct to let him have a night an give us a "result", for the future anyway.

3) I would say that there's some logic to the argument that scum would not care so much between a Town-Lycan and town-myself, and having staked whatever position they staked on us respectively, wouldn't want to change it on a dime, and also might not have wanted to be the one to hammer whichever of us ended up being it, which could possibly explain some of the stall out on both our wagons.

I'm not scum and I rarely engage in hypos in which I am, but in as much as it helps me trying to see the other argument through your "presumptive" Town eyes - if we were both scum, it would seem to me that the scum would have to have been pretty much resigned to the idea that one of us was going under as the deadline approached, and I would generally expect some more bussing. As opposed to waiting around and hoping that a miracle last minute wagon on Town would spring up out of nowhere and save us both.

I may disagree on the likelyhood of the wagons stalling like they did if we were a scum/Town split. Again, from my perspective, if Lycan was scum, then he got up to a certain vote and stalled out, and that was pretty far ahead of the deadline, so his presumptive scum buddies wouldn't necessarily have written him off yet, and could have hoped for an alternate. Then, as you may recall, the votes on me started happening rather quickly after you voted, so they could have seen that and been hopeful of a me lynch instead. And, despite some resistance from some people, I still feel that was what was most likely to have happened, given the number of people not voting me, but saying things like "well, I'll vote him at deadline..." or something like that. That leads to a situation where scum just sit until the deadline, and then they have an easy justification for the vote. The flashwagon would have been something unexpected.

I think it makes even less sense in a scum-Axel/Town-Lycan scenario, but I guess I'm biased.

It is a completely fair question what my read on Insanity is, but I'm currently punting that one down the road. I got an early Town read on him and never saw much cause to revisit it. I have not followed what the arguments are that he's scum, but I have noted that several people are making them, so it's just another thing on my list of things I'm not currently doing to re-read that slot and assess the arguments people are making. The fact Insanity bailed has played a large part in my not doing that yet, like it or not. I did look at his vote on the KMD wagon, and it, at least, didn't do anything to make me think he was more Town.

4) See, that's just the thing about Firebringer. What exactly does he get - as scum - by completely making up a false claim of historically being able to read you correctly, when, as you apparently demonstrated, that is just not the case? I don't think it benefits him at all. I think it makes a lot more sense that he would be mis-remembering his powers of Magna-reading than that he would be lying about it.

[Korts]

Lycanfire has requested replacement by PM.

[Eddie Cane]

yum

[roflcopter]

honestly what the hell people

[Ginngie]

This lobby gonna die lmao

[Pine]

Mod: Suggest/request pause on game while replacements are sourced.

[Korts]

insanity018 has been modkilled. She was a

Vanilla Townie

. Day 2 continues.

Mod: Suggest/request pause on game while replacements are sourced.

I'm not sure replacements are coming, to be honest.

[Eddie Cane]

anyone wanna sig bet on the next 3 flips

[Ginngie]

1/3

“There’s a hole in the ground, and I wanna be a worm”

[Axelrod]

So the next three to get the ax are Firebringer, Tammy, and Cooldog?

I think that could easily just be T/T/T and would probably want to concede if that happened.

[Axelrod]

Right, we got a Firebringer replacement.

[Eddie Cane]

I'm sticking with Fire and Tammy town, CD scum if theres scum

Axel cant uou use these flips?

[Momrangal]

At page 17. Catching up is sooo slloowww

Skimmed through some of d2 and I assume he retracted his IC claim. Town read intensifies there

[Kison]

Thanks for replacing in, Momrangal. Super disappointed that so many people would flake out like this. On the upside, I'm glad it is the Insanity slot that got modkilled so far.

I'm here and reading up on the KMD wagon like I had planned to do on Friday, so should have more to say in a little bit.

[Ginngie]

tbh it was like a free dayvig

and we would have ended up mislynching

[Kison]

Alright, I probably need to do this again but after isolating everyone who voted KMD, CooLDog, Firebringer, Pine & Ginngie are the four I like the least. CooLDog's was probably the slimiest hop on the wagon. Eddie & MoI were pretty consistent in going after KMD all day. Tammy kind of went back and forth but I think made sense ultimately.

VOTE: CooLDoG

Aside from being a crap slot in general, his vote on KMD was just lazy. Goes from null read & "let him catch up" to suddenly finding his iso terrible when he jumps on the wagon.

Probably will have questions for other KMD voters tomorrow. Also going to see who was around but decided to sit on the sidelines, because a wagon forming that quickly, I wouldn't expect all scum to just pile on.

[Korts]

OnTheMark replaces Tammy! He is V/LA until Wednesday.

[OnTheMark]

Confirm.

I am high as a kite not reading shit til Wednesday. Not posting til Wednesday

Where I will still be high.

Highreads momrangal scum
Kison scumlean or null
Eddie Cane town
Axelrod town but being stupid there is never a reason to chain three lynches

Pine town
Copter scum
Ginngie town

Highreads were taken from this page only

Let the policy lynching begin for reads with 0 context

[roflcopter]

fine with lynching cooldog or axel

kison axel is the scum who cased kmd during day one then pointedly did not vote him

[Eddie Cane]

KMD, CooLDog, Firebringer, Pine & Ginngie are the four

[Kison]

Of course it looks weird when you quote it like that.

Rofl I will take a look at that but I dunno, I'm not feeling the whole Axel scum thing like I was before!