Minuet's Trio [Game Over]

[Kokichi Oma]

Eh. I kinda want to lynch kaede now even after claim

I will slap you

its you or her. Take your pick, friend.

[Ankamius]

VOTE: Kaeda
Normally I'm against lynching cop claims day 1 but..
This is scum guys.

VOTE: grapes

Okay apparently being subtle isn't gonna work

I'm a vanilla cop

this is a huge towntell

[Ankamius]

Oh ok that makes things easy then
VOTE: grapes

kaede should know better too, but it's self-preservation at work here

she just needed an excuse to hop on over to grapes

[Ankamius]

So basically you're admitting to not being able to read me if you're town here, it's a catch all.

yes, do you have a point here? I admitted i cant read you at the end of our last game

^more evidence this is theater

[Kokichi Oma]

Ank did we just become best friends?

[Ankamius]

ok so

In queen of hearts town had a bunch of compulsive body guards
Nightengale we had a bunch of double voters

Maybe this game the "weak-ish role that town gets more than one of" is vanilla cop because
1) wis is kinda right that it aint too strong especially depending on setup and sakura fakeclaiming vanilla cop as scum is only really likely if she's actually a role cop i think (btw i think the "scum version" of the vanilla cops in this case would probably be akin to rolecop if that's in fact what's going on here)
2) I'm not sure fakegod would give scum the fakeclaim of vanilla cop to just have me CC and get a wicked easy scum lynch (thing is here, maybe he would, in queen of hearts the mafia bodyguard wasn't compulsive and in nightengale scum didn't have a double-voter, though)
3) ginngie and nos are both sorta reacting how scum would in a CC situation between 2 town



At any rate after pondering it's kinda cool that if kaeda and I are both town we both are kinda bad night kills and they can't block both of us so yippee i guess

Let's vote in android nos ginngie for today

VOTE: nos

andriod is town
ginngie is probably town because I have too many other scum suspects

nos is the best vote of the three, but not the best vote

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Ank was the least person i was expecting to SR me this game after the claim.

[Ankamius]

tbh i'd prefer ginngie (and i specifically want to point to how he reacted to both vanilla cops as an instance of why it should be obvious that he's not town - because he should have had a reaction similar to grapes when kaede outed her role and his reaction to grapes' claim and his planned action is just... bad)

you're going to have to unpack this for me, kaede's posting around the vanilla cop claim is way worse

[Ankamius]

and I'm caught up

Kaede + Wisdom + (Nosferatu/Purrcocet/Moment) is my pick for the scumteam currently

grapes wagon was bad, he's town
ginngie is probably town

[Human Sequencer]

Can we stop fucking calling scumteams
We don't know the kaede is scum yet

we don't know that kaede is scum yet

Stop setting yourselves up for failure

No matter how sure you are or how sure in your read partners you are, you can still be wrong

Just lynch who you think is scum

D1 gets fucked so often because people post off their fucking minds and also because people overcomplicate things and details
aaarwrghhghghghghg

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Well this might get me lynched faster but.

Ankamius are you REALLY sure you wanna keep pushing this angle, but you and me know that town you would not SR a town me specially after that claim, and I'm pretty sure you know what's coming if I get lynched here D1, since I said it in the past.
And as an icing to the cake if i find out by any means that you were actually town and pushed me here, you'll find very quickly that i do NOT appreciate friends that do this to me.

Call it Appeal to Fear or whatever, but I'm done putting up with this BS from "friends" that "have meta" and "know how to read me".

[Ankamius]

Can we stop fucking calling scumteams
We don't know the kaede is scum yet

we don't know that kaede is scum yet

Stop setting yourselves up for failure

No matter how sure you are or how sure in your read partners you are, you can still be wrong

Just lynch who you think is scum

D1 gets fucked so often because people post off their fucking minds and also because people overcomplicate things and details
aaarwrghhghghghghg

you've clearly never played with me before

[Human Sequencer]

AH YES META EVERYBODY'S FAVORITE

are u trying to say ur reads are just that good
because ego is another thing that makes me seethe

ur asking me to just fucking trust you to be both town and just that good
in a game about manipulating trust

:THINKING:
~disclaimer I think ank is town for now~

[Kokichi Oma]

Yeah, this is scum Kaede. Sorry I was wrong earlier.

[Human Sequencer]

Tragic.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I will also note that I am vehemently against players claiming fake guilties so Kaede's stance is the right one, I'm just having fun poking her.

What about game winning fake guilties?

Don't like them either.
You know RC? My first game with them they faked a cop guilty on actual scum, scum ended up NKing them but town won the game (i was town that game, but dont remember if i died or rep'd out). Sure they wont the game, but I dont think that's ethical, if you fake a guilty is because you're too low on ethics to get your target lynched in some way of form, I refuse to rely on such dirty tactics, specially because, even tho I can fake confidence, Im always scared due to a bit of doubt in my mind, and if im wrong I could single handlely cause a town loss due to misjudgement and arrogance. The end result, doesnt justify the means.

I agree but it’s not only unethical. it’s idiotic. Sooner or later the player who does that will rand cop and red check scum and town will lose that game because no one believes them. And that’s if you’re actually right about that player’s alignment. If you do this and you’re wrong, you inevitably fuck town over by becoming the next guaranteed mislynch.

[Brian Skies]

Kaede is like all bullshit ate over the last few pages
I trust her maturity more than honestly getting that upset over this shit
It doesn't read genuine at all, it's still so finally inconsistent and feels disingenuous

Explain?

tbh i'd prefer ginngie (and i specifically want to point to how he reacted to both vanilla cops as an instance of why it should be obvious that he's not town - because he should have had a reaction similar to grapes when kaede outed her role and his reaction to grapes' claim and his planned action is just... bad)

you're going to have to unpack this for me, kaede's posting around the vanilla cop claim is way worse

Explain?

[Kokichi Oma]

I disagree on the android townread, but as I said that can be sorted later.

[Kokichi Oma]

Nancy and Brian vote Kaede.

[Brian Skies]

I want my questions answered first.

[Ankamius]

Well this might get me lynched faster but.

Ankamius are you REALLY sure you wanna keep pushing this angle, but you and me know that town you would not SR a town me specially after that claim, and I'm pretty sure you know what's coming if I get lynched here D1, since I said it in the past.
And as an icing to the cake if i find out by any means that you were actually town and pushed me here, you'll find very quickly that i do NOT appreciate friends that do this to me.

Call it Appeal to Fear or whatever, but I'm done putting up with this BS from "friends" that "have meta" and "know how to read me".

the game is completely separate from everything outside of it for me, this should be mostly clear from the amount of history we have both in and out of the game

even if not, just note that as proof of what I mean, Mathblade is one of my favorite people from the site outside of mafia, yet it's actually very recent that I can ever stand them in mafia.

so

I know that you are emotional as town, and I believe that it's within your scumrange to use emotion to try to deflect attention from yourself (and wasn't it even proven earlier in this thread? I remember seeing a link to a time you did as scum within the past couple days)
I believe Wisdom would try to push you as either alignment to 'counter' you, since I remember your reads generally are good when you're able to focus on the game.

here's the thing, though

Your emotion doesn't feel like it's coming from a natural perspective that you should be having with how things are progressing
Wisdom's push on you followed by the really awkward backing off after the pressure started easing off you (and by proxy, him, since the wagon on you was what replaced the wagon on him) doesn't look town
Your posts about and to him are the most fake-sounding posts out of everything you've posted so far
Wisdom isn't a shit scum player, I fully believe it's well within his scumrange to try to put you in a better spot to coast through the game while he carries by pushing other lynches ad nauseum

the entire thing has this air of bullshit theater about it that I really don't like.

(now that I think about it, Moment probably isn't scum here)

[Kokichi Oma]

I want my questions answered first.

Didn't need an explanation before, now you do?

[Ankamius]

tbh i'd prefer ginngie (and i specifically want to point to how he reacted to both vanilla cops as an instance of why it should be obvious that he's not town - because he should have had a reaction similar to grapes when kaede outed her role and his reaction to grapes' claim and his planned action is just... bad)

you're going to have to unpack this for me, kaede's posting around the vanilla cop claim is way worse

Explain?

well, it's hard to explain this because it's more a continuation of the play I've been scumreading from her.

it reads more like she found a possible out and is preemptively trying to justify not giving town any info from her role

[Dunnstral]

at least one is town

that's legit the most useless info

Main character roles are stronger than normal roles

says who?

Says me

[zMuffinMan]

@ginngie,

i don't have anything to say that's of 'utmost importance'

but i will do a breakdown of where i'm at with reads with a (relatively) short summary of why (note: kind of unordered within ranks) (can probably elaborate on any one of these reads in a bit more depth if required but cbf now and too busy today - basically wasting my break writing this already - so maybe later tonight):

mastina - probably town (claim, don't care to sort further)

grapes - probably town (i've liked his approach to scum hunting here - it looks like he's not trying to seem town, he's just giving thoughts on various things as they occur to him and the angles he's thinking about things from just seems town to me - e.g. the wis/hebi thing he mentioned looks more like an example of town having a thought occurring to them rather than scum just throwing random suspicion out there. claim stuff recently looks town)

purr - probably town (similar to grapes, the general observations and the way he's been approaching reads looks town)

kokichi - probably town (had him as town early for a couple reasons - setup speculation if he's telling the truth about the 5-day thing, tone, subtle word choices in some places which are kind of hard to fake consistently over a body of work. i think his approach to reads is genuine - in particular, i think the wisdom read and approach to wisdom this game feels like a real read)

human sequencer - probably town (sort of similar grapes/purr)

dunnstral - probably town (somewhat different to the grapes/purr/hs reads but similar in nature - there's a lack of being guarded and a lack of what looks like an agenda and i think the way he's approaching reads and claims looks genuine)

brian - probably town (i've been swaying a lot on the strength of this read at various points, but more recent posting has made me feel better about this - e.g. i think his outburst about nancy/andriod seemed town and i think his posts immediately after i said i think it's ginngie-nancy-kaede seemed town

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nancy - more likely town than scum (i had a lot of issues with her early play, particularly the fact that she spent a lot of time defending herself and hardly any time actually trying to find scum and when she did make attempts that looked like trying to find scum they were pretty half-hearted - e.g. the dunnstral thing which i've already talked about. also didn't like her questions to me because they felt like just a waste of space in an attempt to look like she was doing something. softened up on this a bit recently for a few reasons - i'm buying some of the recent appeals and i think her reads and some of the other things she's been saying more recently feel more genuine)

kaede - more likely town than scum (this... is a read that's too complex to give a fair summary to but in short i didn't like kaede's early play (particularly the appeals to wisdom which looked to me like trying too hard to prep for countering suspicion on her), i haven't really liked the way she's been forming reads, but recent posts have felt a bit better (yes, most of it is ate and i am aware she does this as both alignments but in this particular case i think it's more likely to be town) and interactions with people i think are likely scum don't really look like scum-scum (don't talk to me about how this is unwise before a flip))

wisdom - more likely town than scum (i really want to put him higher up for little things such as thinking there were 4 scum and i do think his general aproach to forming certain reads - e.g. kaede, moment - looks more likely town than scum. the issue i'm having with putting him higher is certain other reads he has - e.g. ginngie, nosferatu)

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moment - possibly town (this read has been slipping a lot and that's partly due to POE pushing him further down and partly due to me rethinking some things i thought looked a lot more town earlier on than i do now - e.g. i thought the first post he gave reads looked kinda town to me when i first read it and i thought his reaction to people calling nancy town looked kinda town too (since there was an avenue for him to just back down like the rest of the game was doing there rather than being stubborn about it), but on looking back at it i'm less sure and his posts lately have left a meh impression on me)

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andriod - possibly town, possibly scum (partly poe, partly some things have just been bugging me lately - e.g. don't really agree the thing about goons necessarily means anything, but i do think the 'thought this was role madness' comment seems pretty out of place and andriod just hasn't had any real presence for a long time now. i thought the early posting was townish though)

ankamius - possibly town, possibly scum (partly poe, partly just a lack of seeing anything town from the slot yet. didn't particularly like hebi's play or lurking. ankamius hasn't really done anything that looks town to me. hasn't done anything that looks like scum either, though... just haven't really cared for ankamius's posts so far)

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nosferatu - more likely scum than town (partly poe, but really just haven't seen anything town come from the slot yet. all the votes feel like incredibly lazy 'any lynch on town will do' votes. don't really buy the excuse that he's townhunting here because, well, he isn't or he'd have more reads than he apparently does. not sure what to make of the recent self-vote ate stuff - kind of ignoring it for now until i have a chance to look into how he plays at some point. was kind of interested to see if he'd vote ginngie or not and him doing so but now unvoting doesn't make me feel great)

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ginngie - probably scum (honestly, i don't think this has anything to do with playstyle clash or anything like that - he just doesn't look like he's genuinely interested in finding scum and every time he talks about someone being town it doesn't look like it's coming from a town place. i might go into this in more detail if i have time later, but ill prob be busy with stuff this afternoon so it will have to wait until tonight but as a really, really quick example, his approach to reading nancy (wotc) and his questioning of certain wagons without committing to a read (e.g. kaede, grapes) doesn't look town to me at all - it just looks like scum who's trying to come off as reasonable when he knows they're mislynches. early play doesn't look town. recent stuff around claims doesn't look town. may elaborate later)

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cupcake - cupcake