Newbie 1876 - Game Over!

[Jackal711]

VOTE COUNT 1.5

TrinityNZ (0) -
GuerillaWoo (0) -
2 718281828459 (4) - nonny, IcemanCh, Formerfish, brassherald
Skygazer (0) -
IcemanCh (0) -
nonny (3) - GuerillaWoo, TrinityNZ, Skygazer
Formerfish (0) -
brassherald (2) - Bins, 2 718281828459
Bins (0) -

Not Voting:

With 9 alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Sunday, July 1st at 11:15 am PDT which is in

(expired on 2018-07-01 11:15:00)

[Skygazer]

@2.7: It's not just the self-deprecation (at least for me, I can't speak for anyone else), it's about the weird push on formerfish without a vote (this could potentially be a scum move in that she could be trying to plant the idea of a formerfish lynch without drawing attention to herself by placing a vote/she could be attempting to gain towncred by pointing out how cautious she's being) and the fact that she seems to be more interested in defending herself than scumhunting in her last few posts.

[GuerillaWoo]

Yeah he challenged her and she backed off immediately. He implied that Trinity asked him the same question and she never actually checked that he asked a different question. Really really not great

[nonny]

I'm hesitant to even respond to the multiple people saying I was "self deprecating", what I said about being a perfectionist was not meant to be self deprecating. I asked a question, received an answer, and responded to the answer. I did not phrase it as "woah is me, poor me", merely stated a fact and noted I'd try to lighten up since I'm just a serious person. This is the last I want to post about my personality, if you see it as scumread so be it, I feel like I've explained where I was coming from enough, either you see it as genuine or you don't.

What I wrote...

(within reason, but I doubt two scum would instantly jump on this wagon unless they were suicidal) causes you to lose the townread?

OK, so brass says this is a slip...

1. I was being hypothetical there; I did not "know" whether brass was town or not.
2. If brass
   were
   scum, then it would still be suicidal because the scum team would have just lynched their own for no apparent reason.
3. But really, I was mostly trying to figure out why I was getting heat for voting for brass, and I explained why I thought it was safe to give the L-2 vote, just in case the mere fact that it was L-2 was the reason for the heat. I was trying to write 120 as a question to the IC.
4. @Brassherald: Are you actually scum reading me, or are you just trying to pressure me by putting me at L-1? (Genuine question.)

e

2.7, you see the logic error in point 2, right? If Brass is scum then how can scum lynch him if he's at L-2? There are only 2 scum in a newbie set up, correct?

Nonny what do you think of 2.7?

I'm leaning scumread on 2.7, he is all over the place with multiple logic flaws. Not sure if it's just newbie errors or misdirection. Either way think either he is scum or scum is playing it cautious this game, since he's been at L-1 for over a day with no hammer.

Ok I'm actually back to scumreading nonny. Being self-deprecating as a gameplay defense never goes over well for me. Always reads like dodging.

It's VOTE: nonny for me

Starting to think you just read any thing I say in a negative light, even with the added emoticons.

I read everything in a negative light. Once you get duped in this game you realize people will actually go to extents to fuck with you.

This explanation I have nothing against, feels legit and I respect knowing how you read things yourself. The part that I don't get is why Trinity is sheeping, almost every post from her is just following another player, like in post 122 (how do we link to posts?), with time can find more examples as well.

[quote="In post 139, "2 718281828459"]
"Do you want brass lynched" well, I mean, if I were forced, right now, to lynch any player then it would be brass, because of the somewhat... what's the word... hasty response to my vote. I think I had a few other things on brass as well, although I would need to study the past posts more closely if you want me to write them out.[/quote]

To everyone else, it's always good to be using your vote. Pressuring people with a vote may be the only way you can get a proper read on them.
VOTE: brassherald

Is there a reason why adding more pressure to the player

you

voted for (within reason, but I doubt two scum would instantly jump on this wagon unless they were suicidal) causes you to lose the townread?

Please, write them out. Because so far the only thing you are going on is his response to something you said, seeing as your original vote was simple bandwagoning.

[brassherald]

Hey, sorry for my absence, hitting the time where judges and other attorneys want to get shit done so that they can go on summer vacation.

Yeah he challenged her and she backed off immediately. He implied that Trinity asked him the same question and she never actually checked that he asked a different question. Really really not great

Who's "he"?

As for Numbers McInteger, I literally think you scum slipped and your explanation was pretty shitty. Plus you were not looking so hot before your scum slip. Plus, the appeal to emotion in 139 is so gross, I might have just thrown up a little in my mouth (Not really, but it's not comical otherwise). So, jumping a bit too quickly on a scum slip is just not a thing, to me, but you do you as your partner tries to help you come up with good explanations for your bad play in your mafia PT.

[GuerillaWoo]

UNVOTE:

Considering posting intent to hammer on 2.7 now. Change my mind.

[GuerillaWoo]

Hey, sorry for my absence, hitting the time where judges and other attorneys want to get shit done so that they can go on summer vacation.

Yeah he challenged her and she backed off immediately. He implied that Trinity asked him the same question and she never actually checked that he asked a different question. Really really not great

Who's "he"?

As for Numbers McInteger, I literally think you scum slipped and your explanation was pretty shitty. Plus you were not looking so hot before your scum slip. Plus, the appeal to emotion in 139 is so gross, I might have just thrown up a little in my mouth (Not really, but it's not comical otherwise). So, jumping a bit too quickly on a scum slip is just not a thing, to me, but you do you as your partner tries to help you come up with good explanations for your bad play in your mafia PT.

You.

[brassherald]

Hey, sorry for my absence, hitting the time where judges and other attorneys want to get shit done so that they can go on summer vacation.

Yeah he challenged her and she backed off immediately. He implied that Trinity asked him the same question and she never actually checked that he asked a different question. Really really not great

Who's "he"?

As for Numbers McInteger, I literally think you scum slipped and your explanation was pretty shitty. Plus you were not looking so hot before your scum slip. Plus, the appeal to emotion in 139 is so gross, I might have just thrown up a little in my mouth (Not really, but it's not comical otherwise). So, jumping a bit too quickly on a scum slip is just not a thing, to me, but you do you as your partner tries to help you come up with good explanations for your bad play in your mafia PT.

You.

Okay, thanks for clarification.

[2 718281828459]

Warning: Long Post

I'm hesitant to even respond to the multiple people saying I was "self deprecating", what I said about being a perfectionist was not meant to be self deprecating. I asked a question, received an answer, and responded to the answer. I did not phrase it as "woah is me, poor me", merely stated a fact and noted I'd try to lighten up since I'm just a serious person. This is the last I want to post about my personality, if you see it as scumread so be it, I feel like I've explained where I was coming from enough, either you see it as genuine or you don't.

That is what I got from it. Why you got to L-2 over it is beyond me.

What I wrote...

2. If brass

were

scum, then it would still be suicidal because the scum team would have just lynched their own for no apparent reason.

e

2.7, you see the logic error in point 2, right? If Brass is scum then how can scum lynch him if he's at L-2? There are only 2 scum in a newbie set up, correct?

I do not see that as a logic error. It was not as serious of a defense as the others, but the point was that people are

allowed

to vote for themselves, even if it is completely stupid to do so.

(I still contend that if 3 townies vote for someone, it is just as stupid for both scum to vote for the target whether the target is scum, requiring a self-vote, or the target being town, which is an instant giveaway no matter what.)

But you can disregard this one if you would rather.
My real defense was: "I was mostly trying to figure out why I was getting heat for voting for brass, and I explained why I thought it was safe to give the L-2 vote, just in case the mere fact that it was L-2 was the reason for the heat. I was trying to write 120 as a question to the IC."

Also, please EITHER call me "e" OR "2.7" but not both... "e2.7" implies a number approximately equal to 7.34, not 2.72.

I'm leaning scumread on 2.7, he is all over the place with multiple logic flaws. Not sure if it's just newbie errors or misdirection. Either way think either he is scum or scum is playing it cautious this game, since he's been at L-1 for over a day with no hammer.

"Multiple"? What are the others? (Genuine question.)

I read everything in a negative light. Once you get duped in this game you realize people will actually go to extents to [CENSORED] with you.

This explanation I have nothing against, feels legit and I respect knowing how you read things yourself. The part that I don't get is why Trinity is sheeping, almost every post from her is just following another player, like in post 122 (how do we link to posts?), with time can find more examples as well.

(I see no reason to respond to this; if you want I can)

[quote="In post 139, "2 718281828459"]
"Do you want brass lynched" well, I mean, if I were forced, right now, to lynch any player then it would be brass, because of the somewhat... what's the word... hasty response to my vote. I think I had a few other things on brass as well, although I would need to study the past posts more closely if you want me to write them out.

To everyone else, it's always good to be using your vote. Pressuring people with a vote may be the only way you can get a proper read on them.
VOTE: brassherald

Is there a reason why adding more pressure to the player

you

voted for (within reason, but I doubt two scum would instantly jump on this wagon unless they were suicidal) causes you to lose the townread?

Please, write them out. Because so far the only thing you are going on is his response to something you said, seeing as your original vote was simple bandwagoning.[/quote]
After reflecting on that one response, I thought that it was very telling. I will now go and research brass's posts further and figure out what I was thinking of.

---

Guerilla, what does the oddly worded "Considering posting intent to hammer on 2.7 now. Change my mind" mean?
A. You are going to hammer me soon
B. You are going to threaten me with hammer soon
C. You were going to do A or B but decided against it
D. None of the above

[GuerillaWoo]

A and B-ish. Posting intent to hammer is less a threat and more an acceleration of play. You're essentially saying "I will end the day barring unforeseen circumstances, so make your farewell or the case against you". I'm threatening you with that game state.

I wish we could at least see D1 through a week cuz I got no clue who your scum partner could be, and I'm not liking how little activity's going on here. But I cannot see a world in which you're town. You're poorly making these little attempts at likeability now that you're L-1. No one cares that you made a long post, dude. The math joke comes off as desperation.

Here's my question: do you think you're a good lynch? Ignore your own survival instinct here with any "of course I wouldn't lynch myself" retorts.

Or do you think you're an easy lynch? If you were, why's it easy? Which scummy player do you think is taking advantage here?

[Skygazer]

I think I am coming to a more solid decision about brass

I will now go and research brass's posts further and figure out what I was thinking of.

So if nothing even immediately comes to mind how can you say just 4 hours ago that you've reached a more solid decision??

Yeah, but I have been thinking about the situation more ever since I have been called out. Sometimes your thoughts become clearer purely due to time.

This says nothing and is frustratingly vague. Have you been only thinking about just that one single post where brass voted you? I would think if you've actually been thinking about brass then you would have more stuff to say when prompted.

If it seems suspicious that I am "suddenly" investigating a lot of people, it is because I realized that I only have one real read right now, and I think I need more.

This preemptive defense feels really scummy to me.

[2 718281828459]

More investigation. I guess my method ignores some parts of the context of a post, but I can always investigate further if I am not sure on something.

brassherald

-- OK, so the other thing I had against brass was that he went back to nonny at post 60, which I think is a little late and after nonny's main defenses. I understand this is flimsy evidence, but it was all I could find besides my Main Evidence.

Trinity

-- I do not like 67, 122, and 133. However she is new and I probably made worse errors in my first game (1872). So... not sure here, but maybe a slight town lean.

Formerfish

-- The only scummy thing I can possibly think of is that two days passed between 84 and 132, but other than that Formerfish is really pro-town: seeking information and acting in a logical manner to events.

Now to Guerilla:

A and B-ish. Posting intent to hammer is less a threat and more an acceleration of play. You're essentially saying "I will end the day barring unforeseen circumstances, so make your farewell or the case against you". I'm threatening you with that game state.

See below.
I might be a liability in a LyLo. But then again, I remember game 1872, end of day 3 -- I thought my position was absolutely indefensible, e.g. how I messed up day 1, read a scum as town day 2, and then read a townie as scum day 3. Yet, I got

night

killed and anyway most people were saying I was innocent. I am bringing up that game because it shows that one can think they are on the brink of losing and be totally wrong.

Or do you think you're an easy lynch? If you were, why's it easy? Which scummy player do you think is taking advantage here?

I think someone like brassherald or you could be taking advantage of me. But this is assuming that someone is taking advantage, and this is not just a misguided town bandwagon.

(Oh, skygazer, I just saw your post but I think I have already responded to everything either here or in my past posts.)

---

Here I go.

I am a Power Role.

At the very beginning, I got way too excited for being dealt a power role. This excitement, combined with trying not to accidentally reveal myself, led to some bad posts. Then it was all survival instinct -- it is one thing to lynch a townie, but to lynch one of only 2 (or maybe even only 1) power roles? So I acted too defensive, due to being desperate to survive without having to reveal myself.

[2 718281828459]

Actually, I do want to respond to this.

I will now go and research brass's posts further and figure out what I was thinking of.

So if nothing even immediately comes to mind how can you say just 4 hours ago that you've reached a more solid decision??

The idea was that I only had 1 main piece of evidence, but I thought that piece was strong. "Nothing comes to mind" was about other reads besides the one post I took offense to.

[nonny]

I still want to keep my vote on nonny. This could be a mislynch, but we can afford 2 mislynches, so...

Would you like to defend yourself or claim a power role?

We've talked about this, but this is a logic flaw. So far most of your posts about game mechanics or "protocol" have has logical misrepresentations.

Also post 57 and 92 seems odd. As someone who has been obsessed with the vote count, you even made your own "unofficial" vote count before voting. Why did you unvote twice in a row without placing a vote? Could be a way to look active while waiting to make a decision, not sure how to read it.

I do not see that as a logic error. It was not as serious of a defense as the others, but the point was that people are

allowed

to vote for themselves, even if it is completely stupid to do so.

(I still contend that if 3 townies vote for someone, it is just as stupid for both scum to vote for the target whether the target is scum, requiring a self-vote, or the target being town, which is an instant giveaway no matter what.)

But you can disregard this one if you would rather.
My real defense was: "I was mostly trying to figure out why I was getting heat for voting for brass, and I explained why I thought it was safe to give the L-2 vote, just in case the mere fact that it was L-2 was the reason for the heat. I was trying to write 120 as a question to the IC."

You make it sound like it's not the L-2 reason, what other reason are you thinking of? The defense of scum self voting is odd, scum typically go for self preservation, so why would you make an excuse based on scum acting any way other then the typical? Yes, some have played scum stupidly but I don't think it'd be a typical scum play, atleast not day one newbie.

Agree with skygazer post 160. Would like the see answers to those questions as well. (see you have responded but not going to remove this from my post)

More investigation. I guess my method ignores some parts of the context of a post, but I can always investigate further if I am not sure on something.

brassherald

-- OK, so the other thing I had against brass was that he went back to nonny at post 60, which I think is a little late and after nonny's main defenses. I understand this is flimsy evidence, but it was all I could find besides my Main Evidence.

Trinity

-- I do not like 67, 122, and 133. However she is new and I probably made worse errors in my first game (1872). So... not sure here, but maybe a slight town lean.

Formerfish

-- The only scummy thing I can possibly think of is that two days passed between 84 and 132, but other than that Formerfish is really pro-town: seeking information and acting in a logical manner to events.

As you said that is weak at best against brassherald. You stated you had more of a list, and came back with one weak point against. Was there more, or are you scrambling for reasons why you bandwagoned?

Here I go.

I am a Power Role.

At the very beginning, I got way too excited for being dealt a power role. This excitement, combined with trying not to accidentally reveal myself, led to some bad posts. Then it was all survival instinct -- it is one thing to lynch a townie, but to lynch one of only 2 (or maybe even only 1) power roles? So I acted too defensive, due to being desperate to survive without having to reveal myself.

Not sure how I feel about the role claim. To me role claiming day one is just asking to be killed night 1. You didn't really try to build a defense prior to a role claim. Wouldn't you want to build a defense prior to claiming, claiming does not really help town at this stage. SE or IC if my logic is wrong here please explain.

UNVOTE: 2.7 I want to see others' response to 2.7 post before someone can hammer.

[brassherald]

Just claim your role, then.

Like, this is the most half assed role claim I've seen in a while and the only reason I can think of for someone to say "I'm a PR" and nothing else is that they are trying to avoid a Counterclaim because they are scum.

I'm not buying a non-specific "PR" claim.

[GuerillaWoo]

You skipped the first half of that question. Also lol @ D1 vagur "PR" claim. It feels like you're playing some very straightforward scum defenses. Legit have no problem ending the day early now.

[2 718281828459]

Oh, wait, I was going to write about this but forgot to. This is more evidence against brass (admittedly more recent, but still).

So, jumping a bit too quickly on a scum slip is just not a thing, to me, but you do you as your partner tries to help you come up with good explanations for your bad play in your mafia PT.

I think this sentence is just ridiculous. Even if I somehow were scum and you somehow knew it 100%, your part about "my partner" coming up with "explanations" in the PT would still be impossible to know as confidently as you state it.

Brass being scum looking for an easy lynch seems like the best interpretation for me right now.

I will respond to nonny in a bit.

brassherald: I was waiting until a post like that (although I was thinking it would be less of an attack) to fully claim.

I am a Town Doctor

.

[2 718281828459]

OK, posts are coming faster than I can respond. Let me handle nonny first.

[brassherald]

Okay, so town doctor, why then did you say that there could be 1 PR?

VOTE: nonny

Because I am not lynching an un-CCed PR claim, no matter how bad it is. I still don't trust numbers.

[2 718281828459]

I still want to keep my vote on nonny. This could be a mislynch, but we can afford 2 mislynches, so...

Would you like to defend yourself or claim a power role?

We've talked about this, but this is a logic flaw. So far most of your posts about game mechanics or "protocol" have has logical misrepresentations.

Yes, and I realized that was a flaw and admitted it. (I think so at least.)

Also post 57 and 92 seems odd. As someone who has been obsessed with the vote count, you even made your own "unofficial" vote count before voting. Why did you unvote twice in a row without placing a vote? Could be a way to look active while waiting to make a decision, not sure how to read it.

I do not know why I unvoted twice in a row. I was still forming a decision, so yeah.

I do not see that as a logic error. It was not as serious of a defense as the others, but the point was that people are

allowed

to vote for themselves, even if it is completely stupid to do so.

(I still contend that if 3 townies vote for someone, it is just as stupid for both scum to vote for the target whether the target is scum, requiring a self-vote, or the target being town, which is an instant giveaway no matter what.)

But you can disregard this one if you would rather.
My real defense was: "I was mostly trying to figure out why I was getting heat for voting for brass, and I explained why I thought it was safe to give the L-2 vote, just in case the mere fact that it was L-2 was the reason for the heat. I was trying to write 120 as a question to the IC."

You make it sound like it's not the L-2 reason, what other reason are you thinking of? The defense of scum self voting is odd, scum typically go for self preservation, so why would you make an excuse based on scum acting any way other then the typical? Yes, some have played scum stupidly but I don't think it'd be a typical scum play, atleast not day one newbie.

1. Not sure how to answer this because the question is confusing.
2. That was more of a joke defense.

Agree with skygazer post 160. Would like the see answers to those questions as well. (see you have responded but not going to remove this from my post)

OK, let me answer that... man, too many questions!

More investigation. I guess my method ignores some parts of the context of a post, but I can always investigate further if I am not sure on something.

brassherald

-- OK, so the other thing I had against brass was that he went back to nonny at post 60, which I think is a little late and after nonny's main defenses. I understand this is flimsy evidence, but it was all I could find besides my Main Evidence.

Trinity

-- I do not like 67, 122, and 133. However she is new and I probably made worse errors in my first game (1872). So... not sure here, but maybe a slight town lean.

Formerfish

-- The only scummy thing I can possibly think of is that two days passed between 84 and 132, but other than that Formerfish is really pro-town: seeking information and acting in a logical manner to events.

As you said that is weak at best against brassherald. You stated you had more of a list, and came back with one weak point against. Was there more, or are you scrambling for reasons why you bandwagoned?

I misremembered. I had, at that point, only one real reason (but I consider it strong).

By the way, right NOW, I have two reasons why I read brass = scum.

Here I go.

I am a Power Role.

At the very beginning, I got way too excited for being dealt a power role. This excitement, combined with trying not to accidentally reveal myself, led to some bad posts. Then it was all survival instinct -- it is one thing to lynch a townie, but to lynch one of only 2 (or maybe even only 1) power roles? So I acted too defensive, due to being desperate to survive without having to reveal myself.

Not sure how I feel about the role claim. To me role claiming day one is just asking to be killed night 1. You didn't really try to build a defense prior to a role claim. Wouldn't you want to build a defense prior to claiming, claiming does not really help town at this stage. SE or IC if my logic is wrong here please explain.

UNVOTE: 2.7 I want to see others' response to 2.7 post before someone can hammer.

What is this "build a defense"? Also, I considered claiming Doctor outright, but decided to do it slowly because I am not sure what the protocol is. (Perhaps that was a mistake.)

[2 718281828459]

Okay, so town doctor, why then did you say that there could be 1 PR?

Because I had not yet claimed doctor. I wanted to claim PR without giving information about which one I was. The reason for that (which may have been a mistake) is that full claims cannot be undone, and I was unsure of which to do.

[2 718281828459]

Now to respond to Skygazer:

I think I am coming to a more solid decision about brass

I will now go and research brass's posts further and figure out what I was thinking of.

So if nothing even immediately comes to mind how can you say just 4 hours ago that you've reached a more solid decision??

Because I was pretty solid (well, as solid as you can get on day 1) about Brass being scum.

Yeah, but I have been thinking about the situation more ever since I have been called out. Sometimes your thoughts become clearer purely due to time.

This says nothing and is frustratingly vague. Have you been only thinking about just that one single post where brass voted you? I would think if you've actually been thinking about brass then you would have more stuff to say when prompted.

True, but I considered it to be strong evidence.

If it seems suspicious that I am "suddenly" investigating a lot of people, it is because I realized that I only have one real read right now, and I think I need more.

This preemptive defense feels really scummy to me.

Why?

[2 718281828459]

I think I have covered everything.

Although Brass, why are you still voting for nonny? I thought all the evidence against nonny was groundless.

[brassherald]

When did I say the "evidence" was groundless? If someone else said it, I don't have to adopt that perspective.

[nonny]

Okay, so town doctor, why then did you say that there could be 1 PR?

VOTE: nonny

Because I am not lynching an un-CCed PR claim, no matter how bad it is. I still don't trust numbers.

That does seem odd, in the setups on the first page there is no set up where the town doc is the only PR.

2.7 why would you be vague when you're trying to reveal you are important? Why did you want the follow up to claim fully? Please stop using "protocols" as a reason, it's easy to hide behind unwritten "rules".