SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE


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Post Post #1300 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:09 pm

Post by Punreader »

In post 928, Taly wrote:I want to hear more rankings and that
Pine
-vig explanation from
Pun
before I extend this.
I told you on D1 that I was going to vig a punread of mine.

There were precisely four players I was punreading.

I promised not to vig TehBrawlGuy (which was my original plan prior to making the promise), so in spite of punreading him I wasn't about to vig him. (Tempting as it was to start D2 with "Remember when I said I wouldn't vig you? I lied.", I prefer to not be a prick whenever possible so upheld my promise.) Also, he was the player most likely to be ranked higher than me. (Which would be an automatic failure for my vig.)

I expected the pun to believe I'd be vigging PenguinPower (my plan was instead to just lynch PenguinPower today), so I wasn't going to vig him.

That left Screenplay and Pine as my possible vigs.

Screenplay was a
significantly
weaker punread of mine; I felt I was far more likely to be wrong about him than Pine, and I really didn't want to shoot town. (I was aiming for a picture-perfect town win.) So I shot my strongest punread, because I felt it was the shot least expected while having the highest chance of hitting pun.

Speaking of the lynch:
VOTE: PenguinPower.
Meant to do this earlier.
Let me give an Alternative perspective.
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Post Post #1301 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:20 pm

Post by Punreader »

In post 840, Fire Assassin wrote:Dunnstral - 4
Pine - 4
PenguinPower - 4
Fire Assassin:
Your list contains three fours, and only one five; as per the rankings, we are to give out two fives and two fours. Which of your fours is actually a five? Do you know? If not, can you ask the mod?
Let me give an Alternative perspective.
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Post Post #1302 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:34 pm

Post by Punreader »

By the way, pausing my readthrough because I am trying to calculate the data available; every player aside from Screenplay, Pine, and Lovebird has their rankings known at this point. (And with luck, Pine told his neighbor.)
Let me give an Alternative perspective.
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Post Post #1303 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:56 pm

Post by the worst »

In post 1292, Taly wrote:O_O

I'm starting to seriously doubt that
Maria V Fire
are TvS.

I don't know if it's TvT or SvS, but my brain's weird shit right now, and I don't know if I'm 100% on point, or extremely off. So I'm going to think here.

Am I going crazy
TW
?
BRUH NO YOU JUST WALLPOSTED THE CONTSNTS OF MY BRAIN

Or maybe we're both going crazy idk yet
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1304 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:27 pm

Post by the worst »

@Pun you're quite right, my memory didn't serve as well as intended. The feeling I got was that you were talking AT Pine rather than attempting to engage with him. the case also felt highly overblown.

but looking back at this in ISO I actually think (ironically) I'm misreading playstyle as malicious distancing. it is slightly strange to me that you and Pine have so much history yet both allege that each cannot read the other....but also Pine is dead so this is just another piece of tinfoil on my hat.

I'm shelving this, I kinda doubt that you're groupscum and which means your claim is very likely legitimate, or you're just an SK.
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1305 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:30 pm

Post by MariaR »

weeeeee
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
Charloux

MariaR goes for the uwu owo tsundere-dere look but you never know if she has a knife behind her back.~
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Post Post #1306 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:40 pm

Post by MariaR »

In post 953, MariaR wrote:10, MariaR
10, Punreader Role.
10, Espeonage Towny town
9, TehBrawlGuy Towny town.
8, the worst he interests me
7, PenguinPower wanted him to survive
6, Srceenplay tr
6, Chara Big tr but didn't need that many points
5, Dunnstral place holder
5, DeasVail place holder
4, Taly ehh someone I need to keep my eye on
4, Shoshin Felt was gonna live anyway so gave a low ratings
3, Fire Assassin Didn't mind if they died
2, Pine People wanted him low
1, Vaxkiller forgot
0, Lovebird Poe
0, NicoRobin Will never be useful
0 Nahdia is scum
there ya go taly
I bet Maria is scum this game
~Firebringer
Na Maria isn't towny enough to be scum this game~
Charloux

MariaR goes for the uwu owo tsundere-dere look but you never know if she has a knife behind her back.~
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Post Post #1307 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:28 pm

Post by Punreader »

It took me a while to do, but here is what I came up with. (I am fairly certain the data is not 100% correct and I've made errors, but it is more or less what information we have available.)

Spoiler: Every Players' Rankings (by playerlist)
TEHBRAWLGUY:
TehBrawlGuy (10)
Punreader (10)
Pine (10)
Dunnstral (9)
MariaR (8)
Shoshin (7)
Nahdia (6)
Chara (6)
DeasVail (5)
Lovebird (5)
Fire Assassin (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
Screenplay (3)
the worst (2)
Taly (1)
Espeonage (0)
PenguinPower (0)
NicoRobin (0)

TALY:
Taly (10)
Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
the worst (9)
Shoshin (8)
Screenplay (7)
MariaR (6)
DeasVail (6)
TehBrawlGuy (5)
Pine (5)
Nahdia (4)
NicoRobin (4)
Lovebird (3)
Dunnstral (2)
Fire Assassain (1)
Espeonage (0)
Vaxkiller (0)
PenguinPower (0)

PUNREADER:
Taly (10)
Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
Dunnstral (9)
Nahdia (8)
Shoshin (7)
MariaR (6)
Espeonage (6)
the worst (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
DeasVail (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
NicoRobin (3)
Lovebird (2)
Screenplay (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
Pine (0)
PenguinPower (0)

MARIAR:
Punreader (10)
MariaR (10)
Espeonage (10)
TehBrawlGuy (9)
the worst (8)
PenguinPower (7)
Chara (6)
Screenplay (6)
DeasVail (5)
Dunnstral (5)
Taly (4)
Shoshin (4)
Fire Assassin (3)
Pine (2)
Vaxkiller (1)
Nahdia (0)
Lovebird (0)
NicoRobin (0)

DEASVAIL:
Taly (10)
Punreader (10)
DeasVail (10)
the worst (9)
Shoshin (8)
Screenplay (7)
Chara (6)
Vaxkiller (6)
Nahdia (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
Dunnstral (4)
Pine (4)
TehBrawlGuy (3)
Espeonage (2)
Lovebird (1)
MariaR (0)
PenguinPower (0)
NicoRobin (0)

ESPEONAGE:
Espeonage (10)
Dunnstral (10)
Vaxkiller (10)
TehBrawlGuy (9)
Taly (8)
the worst (7)
DeasVeil (6)
PenguinPower (6)
MariaR (5)
Chara (5)
Punreader (4)
Nahdia (4)
Shoshin (3)
Screenplay (2)
Lovebird (1)
Fire Assassin (0)
Pine (0)
Nico Robin (0)

DUNNSTRAL:
Dunnstral (10)
Fire Assassin (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (9)
Espeonage (8)
Punreader (7)
MariaR (6)
Screenplay (6)
Nahdia (5)
the worst (5)
DeasVail (4)
Pine (4)
Shoshin (3)
TehBrawlGuy (2)
PenguinPower (1)
Lovebird (0)
Vaxkiller (0)
NicoRobin (0)

NAHDIA:
Punreader (10)
Nahdia (10)
Chara (10)
Fire Assassin (9)
PenguinPower (8)
the worst (7)
Espeonage (6)
Shoshin (6)
Taly (5)
DeasVail (5)
TehBrawlGuy (4)
Pine (4)
MariaR (3)
Dunnstral (2)
Lovebird (1)
Screenplay (0)
Vaxkiller (0)
NicoRobin (0)

THE WORST:
Taly (10)
the worst (10)
Chara (10)
Espeonage (9)
MariaR (8)
Nahdia (7)
TehBrawlGuy (6)
DeasVail (6)
Punreader (5)
PenguinPower (5)
Pine (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
Shoshin (3)
Dunnstral (2)
Fire Assassin (1)
Lovebird (0)
Screenplay (0)
NicoRobin (0)

PINE:
TehBrawlGuy (10)
Pine (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (9)
Fire Assassin (8)
??? (7)
??? (6)
??? (6)
??? (5)
??? (5)
??? (4)
??? (4)
??? (3)
??? (2)
??? (1)
Punreader (0 * 2)
Nahdia (0)
PenguinPower (0)

SHOSHIN:
Taly (10)
Shoshin (10)
Chara (10)
the worst (9)
TehBrawlGuy (8)
Screenplay (7)
DeasVail (6)
Dunnstral (6)
Punreader (5)
Vaxkiller (5)
Nahdia (4)
NicoRobin (4)
Espeonage (3)
Fire Assassin (2)
Pine (1)
MariaR (0)
Lovebird (0)
PenguinPower (0)

FIRE ASSASSIN:
Nahdia (10)
Fire Assassin (10)
Chara (10)
MariaR (9)
TehBrawlGuy (8)
the worst (7)
Shoshin (6)
Screenplay (6)
DeasVail (5)
Dunnstral (4) (ONE OF THESE IS A FIVE)
Pine (4) (ONE OF THESE IS A FIVE)
PenguinPower (4) (ONE OF THESE IS A FIVE)
Punreader (3)
Taly (2)
Lovebird (1)
Espeonage (0)
Vaxkiller (0)
NicoRobin (0)

(LOVEBIRD RANKINGS UNKNOWN)

CHARA:
TehBrawlGuy (10)
Taly (10)
Chara (10)
Nahdia (9)
Punreader (8)
the worst (7)
MariaR (6)
Shoshin (6)
DeasVail (5)
Dunnstral (5)
Espeonage (4)
Fire Assassin (4)
Lovebird (3)
PenguinPower (2)
NicoRobin (1)
Pine (0)
Screenplay (0)
Vaxkiller (0)

(SCREENPLAY RANKINGS UNKNOWN)

VAXKILLER:
Nahdia (10)
Pine (10)
Vaxkiller (10)
Fire Assassin (9)
PenguinPower (8)
Punreader (7)
DeasVail (6)
Screenplay (6)
the worst (5)
Lovebird (5)
Espeonage (4)
Shoshin (4)
Chara (3)
Dunnstral (2)
NicoRobin (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
Taly (0)
MariaR (0)

PENGUINPOWER:
MariaR (10)
Dunnstral (10)
PenguinPower (10)
TehBrawlGuy (9)
DeasVail (8)
Espeonage (7)
the worst (6)
Vaxkiller (6)
Lovebird (5)
Screenplay (5)
Shoshin (4)
Fire Assassin (4)
Nahdia (3)
Pine (2)
NicoRobin (1)
Taly (0)
Punreader (0 * 2)
Chara (0)

NICOROBIN:
Espeonage (10)
Pine (10)
NicoRobin (10)
PenguinPower (9)
Chara (8)
Dunnstral (7)
Nahdia (6)
the worst (6)
Screenplay (5)
Vaxkiller (5)
MariaR (4)
DeasVail (4)
Taly (3)
TehBrawlGuy (2)
Lovebird (1)
Punreader (0 * 2)
Shoshin (0)
Fire Assassin (0)


Spoiler: CALCULATED SCORES (by ranking):
1. Chara:
9 10s
0 9s
1 8
0 7s
3 6s
1 5
0 4s
1 3
0 2s
0 1s
0 0s

90 + 8 + 18 + 5 + 3 = 124
9 + 1 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 15
124 / 15 = ~8.27 average

2. Taly:
6 10s
2 9s
1 8
0 7s
0 6s
1 5
1 4
1 3
1 2
1 1
1 0

60 + 18 + 8 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 101
6 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 15
101 / 15 = ~6.7 average

3. the worst:
1 10
3 9s
1 8
4 7s
1 6
3 5s
0 4s
0 3s
1 2
0 1s
0 0s

10 + 27 + 8 + 28 + 6 + 15 + 2 = 96
1 + 3 + 1 + 4 + 1 + 3 + 1 = 15
96 / 15 = ~6.4 average

4. Nahdia:
4 10s
1 9
0 8s
1 7
2 6s
2 5s
3 4s
0 3s
0 2s
0 1s
2 0s

40 + 9 + 7 + 12 + 10 + 12 = 90
4 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 15
90 / 15 = ~6.00 average

5. Punreader:
6 10s
0 9s
1 8
2 7s
0 6s
2 5s
1 4
1 3
0 2s
0 * 2 1s (0 1s)
2 * 2 0s (4 0s)

60 + 8 + 14 + 10 + 4 + 3 = 99
6 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 4 = 17
99 / 17 = ~5.8 average

6. TehBrawlGuy:
3 10s
2 9s
2 8s
0 7s
1 6
1 5
1 4
1 3
2 2s
0 1s
2 0s

30 + 18 + 16 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 4 = 86
3 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 15
86 / 15 = ~5.73 average

7. DeasVail:
1 10
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
5 6s
5 5s
3 4s
0 3s
0 2s
0 1s
0 0s

10 + 30 + 25 + 12 = 77
1 + 5 + 5 + 3 = 14
77 / 14 = ~5.5 average

8. Shoshin:
1 10
0 9s
2 8s
2 7s
3 6s
0 5s
2 4s
3 3s
0 2s
0 1s
1 0

10 + 16 + 14 + 18 + 8 + 9 = 75
1 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 1 = 14
75 / 14 = ~5.35 average

9. Dunnstral:
2 10s
2 9s
0 8s
1 7
1 6
2 5
1.5 4s
0 3s
4 2s
0 1s
0 0s

20 + 18 + 7 + 6 + 10 + 6 + 4 = 71
2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1.5 + 4 = 13.5
71 / 13.5 = ~5.26 average

10. Espeonage:
3 10s
1 9
1 8
0 7s
2 6s
0 5s
2 4s
1 3
1 2
0 1s
3 0s

30 + 9 + 8 + 12 + 8 + 3 + 2 = 72
3 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 14
72 / 14 = ~5.1 average

11. MariaR:
1 10
1 9
2 8s
0 7s
4 6s
1 5
1 4
1 3
0 2s
0 1s
3 0s

10 + 9 + 16 + 24 + 5 + 4 + 3 = 71
1 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 14
71 / 14 = ~5.07 average

12. Fire Assassin:
2 10s
2 9s
1 8
2 5s
2 4s
1 3
1 2
2 1s
2 0s

20 + 18 + 8 + 10 + 8 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 71
2 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 = 15
71 / 15 = ~4.7 average

13. Pine:
4 10s
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
0 6s
1 5
4.5 4s
0 3s
1 2
1 1
3 0s

40 + 5 + 18 + 2 + 1 = 66
4 + 1 + 4.5 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 14.5
66 / 14.5 = ~4.55 average

14. Screenplay:
0 10s
0 9s
0 8s
3 7s
4 6s
1 5
0 4s
1 3
1 2
1 1
3 0s

21 + 24 + 5 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 56
3 + 4 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 14
56 / 14 = ~4.00 average

15. PenguinPower:
1 10
1 9
2 8s
1 7
1 6
1 5
.5 4s
0 3s
1 2
1 1
6 0s

10 + 9 + 18 + 7 + 6 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 60
1 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + .5 + 1 + 1 + 6 = 15.5
60 / 15.5 = ~3.87 average

16. Vaxkiller:
2 10s
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
1 6
2 5s
3 4s
0 3s
0 2s
1 1
5 0s

20 + 6 + 10 + 12 + 1 = 49
2 + 1 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 5 = 14
49 / 14 = ~3.5 average

17a. Lovebird:
0 10s
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
0 6s
2 5s
0 4s
2 3s
1 2
5 1s
4 0s

10 + 6 + 2 + 5 = 23
2 + 2 + 1 + 5 + 4 = 14
23 / 14 = ~1.6 average

17b. NicoRobin:
1 10
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
0 6s
0 5s
2 4s
1 3
0 2s
3 1s
8 0s

10 + 8 + 3 + 3 = 24
1 + 2 + 1 + 3 + 8 = 15
24 / 15 = ~1.6 average
The important ones:
13. Pine: ~4.55 average (4 10s; 3 0s)
17a. Lovebird: ~1.6 average (0 10s; 4 0s)
17b. NicoRobin: ~1.6 average (1 10; 8 0s)

Compared to the actual scores:

LOVEBIRD (18):
1.78
No 10s
4 0s

NICOROBIN (17):
2.06
1 10
8 0s

PINE (12):
4.67
10 4s
3 0s

Interestingly? While I calculated Pine's score as being higher than what it actually is (but not by much), Pine's position is ranked one lower than what it actually is. NicoRobin should also have more points than what is visible here.

However, while the calculations are likely not perfect and the data is incomplete, these numbers are still
more or less
lining up to reality.

Given this, we can fairly safely assume
nobody lied about their scores.


If someone had lied about their scores, I'd be expecting a far greater discrepancy between my calculated scores and the proven scores.
Let me give an Alternative perspective.
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Post Post #1308 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:47 pm

Post by Vaxkiller »

Rough weekend I should have VLA'd prob, I wil b back tomorrow
Vaxkiller is not anti-vaccine, he is a killer of Vax machines.

Games played.
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Post Post #1309 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:50 pm

Post by Errantparabola »

Votecount 2.9


Fire Assassin
(3): Espeonage, MariaR/Chara
PenguinPower
(2): TehBrawlGuy, Punreader
Dunnstral
(1): Fire Assassin

Not Voting
(9): Nahdia, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller, Shoshin, Taly, PenguinPower, Dunnstral, DeasVail, the worst

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)
did another ms user do something lovely? recognize their achievements here!

Today's modern mafia consumer demands dozens, nay, hundreds of roles that are vanilla cops.
--implosion
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Post Post #1310 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:55 pm

Post by Punreader »

In post 1147, Fire Assassin wrote:I am a ranking cop.
If I rank higher than the person I am checking I will get the results I should get if I was a normal cop
If I am lower I get the opposite of what I should get
In post 1307, Punreader wrote:10. Espeonage: ~5.1 average
12. Fire Assassin: ~4.7 average
Right, so you just cop cleared Espeonage then; your result indicates he is town. You're ranked lower than him, so your mafia result is the opposite of what you should get.
Let me give an Alternative perspective.
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Post Post #1311 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 4:59 pm

Post by Punreader »

I made an error in my rankings; I did not account for Nico's votes being doubled. That changes everything. One moment, I'll see if I can recalculate.
Let me give an Alternative perspective.
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Post Post #1312 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:07 pm

Post by DeasVail »

In post 1224, Taly wrote:DV, with the recent pages, do you think it's more likely the entire group of 4 are all town? (Espe/Dunn/Fire/Vax)
Yeah probably
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Post Post #1313 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:21 pm

Post by DeasVail »

(Also sorry Espe)

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Post Post #1314 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:29 pm

Post by Punreader »

Spoiler: Every Players' Rankings (by playerlist)
TEHBRAWLGUY:
TehBrawlGuy (10)
Punreader (10)
Pine (10)
Dunnstral (9)
MariaR (8)
Shoshin (7)
Nahdia (6)
Chara (6)
DeasVail (5)
Lovebird (5)
Fire Assassin (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
Screenplay (3)
the worst (2)
Taly (1)
Espeonage (0)
PenguinPower (0)
NicoRobin (0)

TALY:
Taly (10)
Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
the worst (9)
Shoshin (8)
Screenplay (7)
MariaR (6)
DeasVail (6)
TehBrawlGuy (5)
Pine (5)
Nahdia (4)
NicoRobin (4)
Lovebird (3)
Dunnstral (2)
Fire Assassain (1)
Espeonage (0)
Vaxkiller (0)
PenguinPower (0)

PUNREADER:
Taly (10)
Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
Dunnstral (9)
Nahdia (8)
Shoshin (7)
MariaR (6)
Espeonage (6)
the worst (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
DeasVail (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
NicoRobin (3)
Lovebird (2)
Screenplay (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
Pine (0)
PenguinPower (0)

MARIAR:
Punreader (10)
MariaR (10)
Espeonage (10)
TehBrawlGuy (9)
the worst (8)
PenguinPower (7)
Chara (6)
Screenplay (6)
DeasVail (5)
Dunnstral (5)
Taly (4)
Shoshin (4)
Fire Assassin (3)
Pine (2)
Vaxkiller (1)
Nahdia (0)
Lovebird (0)
NicoRobin (0)

DEASVAIL:
Taly (10)
Punreader (10)
DeasVail (10)
the worst (9)
Shoshin (8)
Screenplay (7)
Chara (6)
Vaxkiller (6)
Nahdia (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
Dunnstral (4)
Pine (4)
TehBrawlGuy (3)
Espeonage (2)
Lovebird (1)
MariaR (0)
PenguinPower (0)
NicoRobin (0)

ESPEONAGE:
Espeonage (10)
Dunnstral (10)
Vaxkiller (10)
TehBrawlGuy (9)
Taly (8)
the worst (7)
DeasVeil (6)
PenguinPower (6)
MariaR (5)
Chara (5)
Punreader (4)
Nahdia (4)
Shoshin (3)
Screenplay (2)
Lovebird (1)
Fire Assassin (0)
Pine (0)
Nico Robin (0)

DUNNSTRAL:
Dunnstral (10)
Fire Assassin (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (9)
Espeonage (8)
Punreader (7)
MariaR (6)
Screenplay (6)
Nahdia (5)
the worst (5)
DeasVail (4)
Pine (4)
Shoshin (3)
TehBrawlGuy (2)
PenguinPower (1)
Lovebird (0)
Vaxkiller (0)
NicoRobin (0)

NAHDIA:
Punreader (10)
Nahdia (10)
Chara (10)
Fire Assassin (9)
PenguinPower (8)
the worst (7)
Espeonage (6)
Shoshin (6)
Taly (5)
DeasVail (5)
TehBrawlGuy (4)
Pine (4)
MariaR (3)
Dunnstral (2)
Lovebird (1)
Screenplay (0)
Vaxkiller (0)
NicoRobin (0)

THE WORST:
Taly (10)
the worst (10)
Chara (10)
Espeonage (9)
MariaR (8)
Nahdia (7)
TehBrawlGuy (6)
DeasVail (6)
Punreader (5)
PenguinPower (5)
Pine (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
Shoshin (3)
Dunnstral (2)
Fire Assassin (1)
Lovebird (0)
Screenplay (0)
NicoRobin (0)

PINE:
TehBrawlGuy (10)
Pine (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (9)
Fire Assassin (8)
??? (7)
??? (6)
??? (6)
??? (5)
??? (5)
??? (4)
??? (4)
??? (3)
??? (2)
??? (1)
Punreader (0 * 2)
Nahdia (0)
PenguinPower (0)

SHOSHIN:
Taly (10)
Shoshin (10)
Chara (10)
the worst (9)
TehBrawlGuy (8)
Screenplay (7)
DeasVail (6)
Dunnstral (6)
Punreader (5)
Vaxkiller (5)
Nahdia (4)
NicoRobin (4)
Espeonage (3)
Fire Assassin (2)
Pine (1)
MariaR (0)
Lovebird (0)
PenguinPower (0)

FIRE ASSASSIN:
Nahdia (10)
Fire Assassin (10)
Chara (10)
MariaR (9)
TehBrawlGuy (8)
the worst (7)
Shoshin (6)
Screenplay (6)
DeasVail (5)
Dunnstral (4) (ONE OF THESE IS A FIVE)
Pine (4) (ONE OF THESE IS A FIVE)
PenguinPower (4) (ONE OF THESE IS A FIVE)
Punreader (3)
Taly (2)
Lovebird (1)
Espeonage (0)
Vaxkiller (0)
NicoRobin (0)

(LOVEBIRD RANKINGS UNKNOWN)

CHARA:
TehBrawlGuy (10)
Taly (10)
Chara (10)
Nahdia (9)
Punreader (8)
the worst (7)
MariaR (6)
Shoshin (6)
DeasVail (5)
Dunnstral (5)
Espeonage (4)
Fire Assassin (4)
Lovebird (3)
PenguinPower (2)
NicoRobin (1)
Pine (0)
Screenplay (0)
Vaxkiller (0)

(SCREENPLAY RANKINGS UNKNOWN)

VAXKILLER:
Nahdia (10)
Pine (10)
Vaxkiller (10)
Fire Assassin (9)
PenguinPower (8)
Punreader (7)
DeasVail (6)
Screenplay (6)
the worst (5)
Lovebird (5)
Espeonage (4)
Shoshin (4)
Chara (3)
Dunnstral (2)
NicoRobin (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
Taly (0)
MariaR (0)

PENGUINPOWER:
MariaR (10)
Dunnstral (10)
PenguinPower (10)
TehBrawlGuy (9)
DeasVail (8)
Espeonage (7)
the worst (6)
Vaxkiller (6)
Lovebird (5)
Screenplay (5)
Shoshin (4)
Fire Assassin (4)
Nahdia (3)
Pine (2)
NicoRobin (1)
Taly (0)
Punreader (0 * 2)
Chara (0)

NICOROBIN:
Espeonage (10 * 2)
Pine (10 * 2)
NicoRobin (10 * 2)
PenguinPower (9 * 2)
Chara (8 * 2)
Dunnstral (7 * 2)
Nahdia (6 * 2)
the worst (6 * 2)
Screenplay (5 * 2)
Vaxkiller (5 * 2)
MariaR (4 * 2)
DeasVail (4 * 2)
Taly (3 * 2)
TehBrawlGuy (2 * 2)
Lovebird (1 * 2)
Punreader (0 * 2 * 2)
Shoshin (0 * 2)
Fire Assassin (0 * 2)

Spoiler: CALCULATED SCORES (by ranking):
1. Chara:
9 10s
0 9s
2 8s
0 7s
3 6s
1 5
0 4s
1 3
0 2s
0 1s
0 0s

90 + 16 + 18 + 5 + 3 = 132
9 + 2 + 3 + 1 + 1 = 16
132 / 16 = ~8.25 average

2. Taly:
6 10s
2 9s
1 8
0 7s
0 6s
1 5
1 4
2 3s
1 2
1 1
1 0

60 + 18 + 8 + 5 + 4 + 6 + 2 + 1 = 104
6 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 1 = 16
104 / 16 = ~6.5 average

3. the worst:
1 10
3 9s
1 8
4 7s
2 6s
3 5s
0 4s
0 3s
1 2
0 1s
0 0s

10 + 27 + 8 + 28 + 12 + 15 + 2 = 102
1 + 3 + 1 + 4 + 2 + 3 + 1 = 16
102 / 16 = ~6.375 average

4. Nahdia:
4 10s
1 9
0 8s
1 7
3 6s
2 5s
3 4s
0 3s
0 2s
0 1s
2 0s

40 + 9 + 7 + 18 + 10 + 12 = 96
4 + 1 + 1 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 16
96 / 16 = ~6.00 average

5. TehBrawlGuy:
3 10s
2 9s
2 8s
0 7s
1 6
1 5
1 4
1 3
3 2s
0 1s
2 0s

30 + 18 + 16 + 6 + 5 + 4 + 3 + 6 = 88
3 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 3 = 16
88 / 16 = ~5.5 average

6. Espeonage:
4 10s
1 9
1 8
0 7s
2 6s
0 5s
2 4s
1 3
1 2
0 1s
3 0s

40 + 9 + 8 + 12 + 8 + 3 + 2 = 82
4 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 15
82 / 15 = ~5.47 average

7. DeasVail:
1 10
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
5 6s
5 5s
4 4s
0 3s
0 2s
0 1s
0 0s

10 + 30 + 25 + 16 = 81
1 + 5 + 5 + 4 = 15
81 / 15 = ~5.4 average

8. Dunnstral:
2 10s
2 9s
0 8s
2 7s
1 6
2 5
1.5 4s
0 3s
4 2s
0 1s
0 0s

20 + 18 + 14 + 6 + 10 + 6 + 4 = 78
2 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 1.5 + 4 = 14.5
78 / 14.5 = ~5.38 average

9. Punreader:
6 10s
0 9s
1 8
2 7s
0 6s
2 5s
1 4
1 3
0 2s
0 * 2 1s (0 1s)
3 * 2 0s (6 0s)

60 + 8 + 14 + 10 + 4 + 3 = 99
6 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 6 = 19
99 / 19 = ~5.2 average

10. MariaR:
1 10
1 9
2 8s
0 7s
4 6s
1 5
2 4s
1 3
0 2s
0 1s
3 0s

10 + 9 + 16 + 24 + 5 + 8 + 3 = 75
1 + 1 + 2 + 4 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 3 = 15
75 / 15 = ~5 average

11. Shoshin:
1 10
0 9s
2 8s
2 7s
3 6s
0 5s
2 4s
3 3s
0 2s
0 1s
2 0s

10 + 16 + 14 + 18 + 8 + 9 = 75
1 + 2 + 2 + 3 + 2 + 3 + 2 = 15
75 / 15 = ~5 average

12. Pine:
5 10s
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
0 6s
1 5
4.5 4s
0 3s
1 2
1 1
3 0s

50 + 5 + 18 + 2 + 1 = 76
5 + 1 + 4.5 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 15.5
76 / 15.5 = ~4.9 average

13. Fire Assassin:
2 10s
2 9s
1 8
2 5s
2 4s
1 3
1 2
2 1s
3 0s

20 + 18 + 8 + 10 + 8 + 3 + 2 + 2 = 71
2 + 2 + 1 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 3 = 16
71 / 15 = ~4.4375 average

14. PenguinPower:
1 10
2 9s
2 8s
1 7
1 6
1 5
.5 4s
0 3s
1 2
1 1
6 0s

10 + 10 + 18 + 7 + 6 + 5 + 2 + 2 + 1 = 69
1 + 2 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + .5 + 1 + 1 + 6 = 16.5
69 / 16.5 = ~4.18 average

15. Screenplay:
0 10s
0 9s
0 8s
3 7s
4 6s
2 5s
0 4s
1 3
1 2
1 1
3 0s

21 + 24 + 10 + 3 + 2 + 1 = 61
3 + 4 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 3 = 15
61 / 15 = ~4.06 average

16. Vaxkiller:
2 10s
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
1 6
3 5s
3 4s
0 3s
0 2s
1 1
5 0s

20 + 6 + 15 + 12 + 1 = 54
2 + 1 + 4 + 3 + 1 + 5 = 15
54 / 15 = ~3.6 average

17. NicoRobin:
2 10s
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
0 6s
0 5s
2 4s
1 3
0 2s
3 1s
8 0s

20 + 8 + 3 + 3 = 34
2 + 2 + 1 + 3 + 8 = 16
34 / 16 = ~2.125 average

18. Lovebird:
0 10s
0 9s
0 8s
0 7s
0 6s
2 5s
0 4s
2 3s
1 2
6 1s
4 0s

10 + 6 + 2 + 6 = 24
2 + 2 + 1 + 6 + 4 = 15
24 / 15 = ~1.6 average
12. Pine: ~4.9 average (4 10s+1 unlisted bonus; 3 0s)
17. NicoRobin: ~2.125 average (1 10+1 unlisted bonus; 8 0s)
18. Lovebird: ~1.6 average (0 10s; 4 0s)

Compared to the actual scores:

LOVEBIRD (18):
1.78
No 10s
4 0s

NICOROBIN (17):
2.06
1 10
8 0s

PINE (12):
4.67
10 4s
3 0s

We have the right ranks now, and NicoRobin's score is closer to the mark, but there's a greater disparity between Pine's theoretical score and actual score. (He's got a higher calculated score than his actual score.)
Let me give an Alternative perspective.
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Post Post #1315 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:33 pm

Post by DeasVail »

Town

Taly
Dunnstral
Fire Assassin
Vaxkiller
Espeonage (I'm worried about missing something here but the reality is that he's probably town)

[Gap]

TehBrawlGuy
Punreader
the worst

[Gap]

Chara
Screenplay

[Gap]

Shoshin
Nahdia
MariaR
PenguinPower

Scum

--

That's a rough idea of my reads right now I think.

There are probably things about it that are not quite right, but I don't really see much reason to townread the people in the last group at this point.
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Post Post #1316 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:42 pm

Post by Punreader »

In post 1270, the worst wrote:how is PP obvscum
I can help you with that.
Spoiler: Look here
In post 303, Punreader wrote:Free preview:
In post 285, TehBrawlGuy wrote:PP's last post makes me feel that PP v Taly is not TvT. Dunno which one is the Scum yet, though. I'll catch that on re-read.
It is far from a surefire thing given I have limited experience with both players, but from what I know this is fairly standard Taly play and not what I'd expect from PenguinPower if he were town. This would not be something I'd state with any level of true confidence, but it has enough where I'll back your sentiment.
In post 552, Punreader wrote:
PenguinPower:
No need for me to explain my read here. I can simply recycle what I said on him before.
In post 473, Punreader wrote: PenguinPower had an incredibly town entrance, which was natural; there was absolutely nothing artificial or fake in his opening. This earned him the spot as my penultimate townread. Since then, there has been a perfect blend of being lighthearted and scumhunting; he's neither fluff posted nor been super serious. That is exactly what I would expect of him as town. Pending some major change, my townread there is never shifting its strength.
In post 964, Punreader wrote:
In post 892, PenguinPower wrote:I have no feelings on Titus right now. I am very skeptical of people who town read me D1 (outside a very small set of players), especially when they don't provide a reason as to why they town read me when asked.
I provided my reasoning.
In post 473, Punreader wrote:
In post 456, Jingle wrote:I'll bite the bait though, tell me about this PP read.
I already did; you should have paid attention the first time.
In post 294, Punreader wrote:
In post 28, PenguinPower wrote:Yea, but...I'm policy lynching...uh....
Power to you, my friend. I believe you have no place in a penitentiary.
PenguinPower had an incredibly town entrance, which was natural; there was absolutely nothing artificial or fake in his opening. This earned him the spot as my penultimate townread. Since then, there has been a perfect blend of being lighthearted and scumhunting; he's neither fluff posted nor been super serious. That is exactly what I would expect of him as town. Pending some major change, my townread there is never shifting its strength.
This still holds. I am quite positive you have been scumhunting and you yourself know that to be true. If you want me to point out the more 'lighthearted' content, I can.
Except this game, just invert it; PenguinPower's entrance this game was incredibly stilted. His posting this game has been entirely super-serious; he is altogether missing the lighthearted aspect. His focus has been too much on mechanics and not enough on punhunting. Add in that the role he claimed is literally a pun role, and he is a solid punread.
In post 703, Punreader wrote:
In post 555, Nahdia wrote:I think their being stilted is pretty well excused by there being no votes. I think their progression towards and the way they claimed came off as town.
I very strongly do not think a lack of votes justifies being stilted. It is an excuse for slacking off, nothing more, especially given that the mod announced from the onset a willingness to track the votes even though they hold no weight. Check . That is Errantparabola's first votecount; the precedence for voting had already been established.

PenguinPower's complaint . Check the timestamps as well. Errantparabola's post 100 has no edit mark. That means it was not edited at a later date. That means it was made on Monday, June 4th; PenguinPower's post complaining was on Wednesday, June 6th. The moderator was
already providing a service that PenguinPower was complaining about a lack of
. His complaint was thus an excuse. Nothing more; the stilted nature of his entrance cannot be reasonably explained by it.

Furthermore, the progression of his claim is the opposite of town. He didn't immediately counter my claim. It was only when players began to show suspicion of his contributions to the game that he provided his claim. When that claim proved to make things worse rather than better, he fullclaimed. He knew he was getting in trouble, and was hoping the truth would make him look better.

This was one of the contributing factors in my decision to fullclaim. PenguinPower's claim progression was meant to protect him from being voted off N1...and if I didn't realclaim, he'd have gotten away with it because people like you were buying it.
In post 709, Punreader wrote:
In post 700, PenguinPower wrote:I'm certain that he half claimed, then admitted to lying about his claim, then added a N1 modifier after being asked to vig me.
This is a fine narrative but one which fails to live up to reality.

I indicated from the onset that I was not claiming fully. I said from the beginning that my bulletproof was not as strong as indicated. I said there was a second condition. I said I wasn't claiming fully. I said that if I claimed fully, it would make sense, but that it would be detrimental for me to have done so. I laid this all out at the beginning; I was quite clear about the nature of my claim.

When I claimed my actual role, I outlined the nature of it. I made no such claim about having that modifier. I stated that I couldn't vig N1, not that I had a modifier stating I can't vig, because my role PM doesn't indicate it at all; it is simply self-evident from the nature of the claim. My vig works off of ranking. I can't vig someone when we don't have a ranking. Ranking is done N1. Thus, I cannot vig N1.
In post 781, Punreader wrote:
In post 745, TehBrawlGuy wrote:I get that apparently the thread has something against mechanics, but holy shit you guys, there's one major difference between this and a standard game. How hard is it to keep track of that
one thing
?
This would be one of the reasons that the players using that one mechanic as an excuse to do nothing (namely, PenguinPower and Pine) are pun.

This game is not nearly as different from a normal game of mafia as they are pretending it to be. Their excuses for not generating content due to said mechanic are therefore nothing more than that: just excuses to not be held accountable for content early in the game. This would also be one of the reasons I consider you a punbuddy, since by your own logic, you should recognize that this:
In post 748, TehBrawlGuy wrote:I really don't get Pine being pretty low on rankings. I weakly townread him. Most of his content is NAI and what there is seems to me like a townie who's just chilling waiting for the game to progress.
...Is an invalid reason to townread him. There is no justification for chilling because
the game is already in progress
.

Pretending the game isn't in progress is a pun-oriented narrative because
as you yourself note
, there is only one difference between this game and a normal game. So players in this game should be...treating it as if it were a normal game; the players who thus are stating they aren't doing so are automatically more suspicious.
In post 795, Punreader wrote:
In post 794, TehBrawlGuy wrote:I think you draw a couple of wrong conclusions here. First off, although there's only one mechanical change, that doesn't mean the ramifications of it on the gamestate are simple. It means, among other things, that it's a lot harder to really be engaged in D1 because there aren't traditional wagons/voting.
And yet the moderator is still tracking votes as if there were traditional wagons/voting. If the moderator were not providing that service, this would be more of a valid point, but he
is
.

Additionally, the addition of the rating mechanic actually gives something
better
than traditional wagons/voting.

Players can create rankings lists, should they so choose, which give data points on multiple players rather than just one.
You can also look in here:
In post 730, Punreader wrote:
Spoiler: Understanding of my Stances
In post 303, Punreader wrote:Free preview:
In post 285, TehBrawlGuy wrote:PP's last post makes me feel that PP v Taly is not TvT. Dunno which one is the Scum yet, though. I'll catch that on re-read.
It is far from a surefire thing given I have limited experience with both players, but from what I know this is fairly standard Taly play and not what I'd expect from PenguinPower if he were town. This would not be something I'd state with any level of true confidence, but it has enough where I'll back your sentiment.
This still holds. In the PenguinPower-Taly exchange, PenguinPower plays exactly to what I'd expect of his punplay, and Taly comes out looking incredibly town from the fight.
In post 370, Punreader wrote:
TOWNIE TENS:

Chara

EAGER EIGHTS:

Taly
Dunnstral
ActionDan

SOLID SIXES:

Shoshin
MariaR
Espeonage

FINICKY FIVES:

the worst
Fire Assassin
DeasVail
Vaxkiller

UNFORTUNATE FOURS:

NicoRobin
ReubenWasFine

IN-BETWEEN THREES:

Srceenplay

TERRIBLE TWOS:

TehBrawlGuy
PenguinPower

ZOMBIFY THESE ZEROES:

Pine/TwoInAMillion
Here I post my readslist, and deliver the promise that reasons will come in 24 hours. (As it turned out, I finished 23 hours later.)
In post 534, Punreader wrote:Since then, PenguinPower has become a zero, but I will detail that later; otherwise, this remains unchanged and is my reference point.

I'll begin by stating, most of my reads come from meta combined with motivations: what I expect to see as either alignment. I can do this for almost the entire playerlist to some extent, but some of these reads are going to have a stronger base than others. With that established...

Chara:
My Chara townread comes primarily from having many games' experience with it. I hesitate to Chare my past experience (as my meta comes from first-hand exposure, linking to examples would be traceable to my main), but the Chararal Chist of it is that Chara always Chows a strong aptitude for forwarding a town wincon. (Okay I'll stop that now.) When Chara is town, it demonstrates this by providing a transparent thought process where its reasoning can be traced, step by step, from beginning to end. This trait, in of itself, isn't town, but what amplifies it is the consistency and the delivery of it. It's not only the process itself, but the content therein. While Chara is not an elite punhunter, Chara's process still provides reasonable town positions to hold.

This is not something Chara can fake convincingly. You can always tell Chara is town by it demonstrating the genuine attempt to game solve, furthering the town wincon in the process. In spite of Chara not being an elite punhunter, in its own way, you can still hold a certain burden of proficiency to it; if Chara's stances don't seem reasonable positions to hold, then it could be pun. However, Chara's content this game
does
show reasonable stances, with reasonable justifications. I follow the process, even if I don't fully agree with it. I agree with more than I don't, and understand how Chara is getting from point A to point B. All of this strongly suggests town.

Taly:
If you Tally his posts, it should be immediately obvious why I hold this read. He has the highest post count in this game by far, and in those posts, constantly, neverending, there is content where he explains his reads, justifies his stances, asks questions, and engages players. Not in of itself enough to be town because tryhard pun is a thing, but when you look at the nature of the content it becomes clear he isn't just doing "busywork". His content builds off of itself; he follows through on the content, and when his stances change, there is a logical progression in the shift.

When he presents posts, he does so without an attempt to force us to wolf it down. This violetly aggressive pushing shows a desire to work with others in a way difficult, but not quite impossible, to fake. He is similar to Chara in this regard, but I don't have the same level of familiarity with him to be as confident on my read here as I do on Chara.

Dunnstral:
I may have been a little hasty in having him this high, but I feel this is his town game off of what little he has provided. Admittedly, he lurks as both alignments but initial signs point to town.

Nahdia/ActionDan:
This read comes from ActionDan, obviously. ActionDan didn't contribute much before leaving the game, but what he did give was enough to make me instantly feel this is his towngame. When ActionDan is town, I expect his reads to be fairly competent, and also to have some level of synchronization with mine. He was suspicious of Screenplay before even I was, and also noted suspicion on TehBrawlGuy well before the thought crossed my mind. Does this mean his reads are right, of course not, but the fact he saw the same slots I see as suspect before I did is an instantly promising sign. His analysis of Espeonage is fairly good as well, and I thought his position on Chara/Deas was indicative of solid, critical thinking of a type difficult to fake as pun.

However, the lack of overall activity and his natural competency as a pun player keep this from being a read I would more strongly Act on. Counterbalancing that, given he was replaced I'd say that isn't Danning at all, so I may be promoting Nahdia's slot.

Shoshin:
Shoshin is one of the players in this game I am least-familiar with, so I can't speak about her with any meta-based experience. However, just off of her play, I felt that her content was indicative of town solving. and are comments that could come from pun, but I lean town on. Many of the directions she's headed have felt like good ones; I've liked the inquiries in posts such as , , , , , , , , , , and . There's good analysis in . However, I'm a little concerned that a great amount of what she has done doesn't appear to have much follow-through to it. This is mitigated by the times I can see it (for instance, the continued Screenplay push), but there are many times where I don't see her evolution in process, keeping me from promoting her. Shoshi's reasonably town, yet not locktown.

MariaR:
I have extensive experience with Maria. I'm not at the point where I can soulread her (not even remotely close), but I still have a reasonable baseline for what she'll be like as town, and initial signs are promising. However, this is not something I can lock in because the best ally in reading her is time we've not had; you never know, something might Mar my Rid there later.

Espeonage:
I don't actually have a good ability to read Espeonage even though I've spied on plenty of his games before. He's a little difficult to pin down; a fair amount of his content
has
made me question him, but he always ninjas his way out by the end. It's mostly the little things which give him this rating; I liked his lighthearted banter seen in such places as , balanced nicely by more serious gamesolving. Many of his prods have felt good, yet this boon is ruined by the conclusions reached from them; his stated reads are, by and large, backwards from what I would expect. Espeonage is reasonably competent, yet all the players I'm suspicious of (Pine, PenguinPower, TehBrawlGuy, Screenplay) are players he's giving passes for whatever reason, even if he had genuine inquiries.

the worst:
Another player I can't reliably read, albeit in part owing to lack of extensive experience. the worst case scenario would be him as pun, but I don't have any reason to suspect he is. He doesn't particularly make me feel town, but lacking a reason to punread him, he may actually be worthy of promotion.

Fire Assassin:
Though I have the experience necessary to meta read Fire Assassin
in theory
, in practice I simply don't know what I'm doing with him and pretending I do would be detrimental. I have no clue what to look for; I have no tells on him; I don't know what indicates he's town or pun. I can tell you overall on his play alone, the content he has produced hasn't been a Sin, but if there is a strong town Fire, I've yet to see it lit. If I had to make a call, it would be town, but I would do so with no confidence whatsoever.

This is the midway point in my reads, and unfortunately I need to take a break to attend to something which came up, so this makes a good stopping point.
Here I give my basic process, outlining that my read on PenguinPower has strengthened from punread to STRONG punread. I lay out the groundwork for the top half of my readslist, which can loosely be thought of as my townreads.
In post 552, Punreader wrote:
DeasVail:
DeasVail is an incredibly talented pun player, and nothing he has done is out of his punrange. In fact, a fair amount of his content is actually the sort I'd expect if he were pun. For the longest time, he was
lower
in my readslist. What actually bumped him up was, in fact, when he gave
his
reads in . His Intervention was an incredible step in the right direction.

Though it's not impossible for him to distance/bus and it's a certainty my reads are far from perfect (and thus, that he could be pun that pushes town players I'm punreading), the significant overlap in reads and his explanation of his process all the same was enough to remove him from the lower half of my reads. Altogether, while he has a permanent Vail preventing me from putting him much higher, he is still someone I'd say is more likely town than not.

Vaxkiller:
Vaxkiller also has gone on a rollercoaster in my reads, from a six to a four before I settled on five. To some extent, he Vaxes me; I don't have a reliable way of reading his contribution. However, some of his pushes, while containing some...questionable...reasoning, look like they are genuinely going in the right direction. Not a killer-strong read, but enough that I want to keep him in the game longer.

NicoRobin:
Nico's not reacting in the way I would expect her to if she were town, but I want to wait longer before committing to this, because she also lurks/flakes plenty as town and this could be one of those times. If she does the thing I am expecting her to do as either alignment, I'll have a better handle on her.

ReubenWasFine:
There isn't much here and I have no game experience with Reuben, but Reuben's contributions to this game have been...lackluster. Not condemning, but certainly not endearing.

Screenplay:
Screenplay's contribution this game on the other hand have been somewhat indicative of pun. He is also fairly lackluster, but the difference is I have the experience with him to know that if he were town he
shouldn't
be. None of his contributions in this game have been even remotely endearing, and yet I've seen plenty of content sending up red flags, as early as . was hollow as well, with no purpose behind it. His reads such as in are opposite what they should be, and he is someone who I respect as a punhunter. Being on vacation feels like more of an excuse than anything else; he is posting plenty, he is reading everything (both of these are self-evident if you look at his iso), and yet in spite of this he is doing virtually nothing.

TehBrawlGuy:
This is another player I don't have much experience with, but his posting has continued to get worse. I'm having trouble explaining this one at the moment, so I'll try to tackle him in a separate post.

PenguinPower:
No need for me to explain my read here. I can simply recycle what I said on him before.
In post 473, Punreader wrote: PenguinPower had an incredibly town entrance, which was natural; there was absolutely nothing artificial or fake in his opening. This earned him the spot as my penultimate townread. Since then, there has been a perfect blend of being lighthearted and scumhunting; he's neither fluff posted nor been super serious. That is exactly what I would expect of him as town. Pending some major change, my townread there is never shifting its strength.
In post 964, Punreader wrote:
In post 892, PenguinPower wrote:I have no feelings on Titus right now. I am very skeptical of people who town read me D1 (outside a very small set of players), especially when they don't provide a reason as to why they town read me when asked.
I provided my reasoning.
In post 473, Punreader wrote:
In post 456, Jingle wrote:I'll bite the bait though, tell me about this PP read.
I already did; you should have paid attention the first time.
In post 294, Punreader wrote:
In post 28, PenguinPower wrote:Yea, but...I'm policy lynching...uh....
Power to you, my friend. I believe you have no place in a penitentiary.
PenguinPower had an incredibly town entrance, which was natural; there was absolutely nothing artificial or fake in his opening. This earned him the spot as my penultimate townread. Since then, there has been a perfect blend of being lighthearted and scumhunting; he's neither fluff posted nor been super serious. That is exactly what I would expect of him as town. Pending some major change, my townread there is never shifting its strength.
This still holds. I am quite positive you have been scumhunting and you yourself know that to be true. If you want me to point out the more 'lighthearted' content, I can.
Except this game, just invert it; PenguinPower's entrance this game was incredibly stilted. His posting this game has been entirely super-serious; he is altogether missing the lighthearted aspect. His focus has been too much on mechanics and not enough on punhunting. Add in that the role he claimed is literally a pun role, and he is a solid punread.

Pine:
I described the threefold reasons for this read briefly before.
In post 525, Punreader wrote:Pine, the short version is that this is Pine transparently being a punfuck. I am intimately familiar with his meta as both alignments and I guarantee you his contribution this game is him as pun. I can cite multiple behavioral tells to this effect, from what content he is giving, what reads he has given, to the ways he has given it and I will do precisely that in the full version. He had no clue he was playing with
me
, so he didn't properly hide his tells that give him away to me.
The way Pine gave his content was in his posting gimmick. Pine was giving his reads through the "hey Errant got really drunk and slipped in discord..." method. The mod may have told him to stop, but without the mod intervening there, he would have continued to use that gimmick for the whole game.

I can cite multiple references to this, but most famously would in fact be Civilization, something Nahdia should be all too aware of. Pine uses gimmicks to mask his pun content, as a way of hiding in plain sight. They have served him well in the past, acting as a way to engage others in an entertaining manner but also lead to them underestimating him.

Prior to the gimmick, which brings me to the first point, Pine was contributing nothing. This was part of where the punread originated. Pine willingly replaced into the game. What did he do after replacing in? Nothing. Pine replaced in at , page 7, on June 5th.
Pine's first content was , a singular line on PenguinPower echoing thread consensus (more on that when we get to point two), but his first full contribution is , page 19, on June 9th.

He has given no reasons for his reads. (The gimmick also helps to serve mask a lack of reasons.) And he has given reads on only a small fraction of the players in the game. And he has done nothing since choosing to replace in. I know Pine, and while he may adamantly deny it, as pun he is a lurker, both in the sense of not posting often and actively lurking a fair amount of the time he posts.

Were he town, he would have upon replacing in done his absolute best to give content in spite of having not read the game. Pine replacing in as town needs not have read the whole game to contribute opinions, but the Pine of this game did nothing...except for, when he did go with his gimmicky reads, defend the players in the game most likely to be pun.

Why is that condemning?

Because Pine is the strongest anti-busser pun player on the site. He will distance. He'll even vote a punbuddy. He might 'bus' in the sense that he'll pine after a punbuddy who makes sense to push but given the slightest excuse he'll abort it if he sees an opportunity to let the punbuddy live. And he sees opportunities even where by all rights none
should
be. By that I mean he sees a chance to abort a bus where other players insist to continue one.

This is particularly pertinent given PenguinPower. If you assume PenguinPower is pun, then is perfect distancing. Given the first opportunity, . And his other noteworthy townread? . The two players in the game aside from Pine, most likely to be pun, and Pine townreads them.

His approach this game has been pun. His content this game has been pun. This is, 100% guaranteed to be his pungame. He would never have played this way if he had known I was in the game, but since he was unaware of my presence, he thought that this strategy would go unnoticed.
Here I go into extensive detail about the bottom half of my reads, wherein you can see my punreads. In particular, I write multiple paragraphs outlining precisely why I feel Pine and PenguinPower in particular are pun.
In post 680, Punreader wrote:
In post 672, Pine wrote:Protected from people below them, kills people ranked higher. That screams “self-aligned” to me.

I’m not opposed to leashing it.
That role sure WOULD be perfect for 3p, but unfortunately for your attempted narrative, it is not the role I claimed.
Pine was misrepresenting the nature of the role I claimed, which if left unchallenged would have led to support of the 3p narrative, allowing him to get away with diverting discussion away from punhunting and onto mechanics.
In post 703, Punreader wrote:
In post 567, Shoshin wrote:
In post 552, Punreader wrote:Vaxkiller: Vaxkiller also has gone on a rollercoaster in my reads, from a six to a four before I settled on five. To some extent, he Vaxes me; I don't have a reliable way of reading his contribution. However, some of his pushes, while containing some...questionable...reasoning, look like they are genuinely going in the right direction. Not a killer-strong read, but enough that I want to keep him in the game longer.
This "rollercoaster from a six to a four to a five" feels fake.
Do you want me to do a Post By Post Analysis of Vaxkiller to prove what I mean? I kid you not, I can and will do it to show
precisely
why he has gone up and down and all around on my reads list.
In post 706, Punreader wrote:
In post 631, Vaxkiller wrote:
In post 567, Shoshin wrote:
In post 552, Punreader wrote:Vaxkiller: Vaxkiller also has gone on a rollercoaster in my reads, from a six to a four before I settled on five. To some extent, he Vaxes me; I don't have a reliable way of reading his contribution. However, some of his pushes, while containing some...questionable...reasoning, look like they are genuinely going in the right direction. Not a killer-strong read, but enough that I want to keep him in the game longer.
This "rollercoaster from a six to a four to a five" feels fake.
Workin my way backwards, but yeah this confuses me as well. I'm a roller coaster but i Vex him, I push some, but something i do are questionable.. I look genuine, but not a strong read. I mean it dont get more wishy washy than that.
Vaxkiller, I realize English is not your first language, but perhaps you should look up the idiomatic expression like a roller coaster.

"Wishy-washy" is
precisely the definition of the expression
.
Yes you have gone up, yes you have gone down. Yes, you have things I like, yes you have things I don't like. That is precisely what I said my read on you was: uncertain, varying, constantly changing and shifting.
In post 568, Shoshin wrote:I also don't like how Pun's rankings -- 10, 8, 8, 8, 6, 6, 6, 5, 5, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 2, 0 -- don't match up to the actual rankings -- 10, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 6, 5, 5, 4, 4, 3, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0 -- seems like a very unnatural way to think about the game if you're actually trying to sort reads into a meaningful rankings list.
Your mistake is in thinking it's a
rankings
list.

It is not.

It is a
reads
list. Strongest town, strong town, weak town, various shades of null, potential pun, slight pun, pun, STRONG pun, approximately.

Read it again with that understanding and you will have a much better handling on where I am coming from.
In post 554, Srceenplay wrote:
In post 552, Punreader wrote:Screenplay: Screenplay's contribution this game on the other hand have been somewhat indicative of pun. He is also fairly lackluster, but the difference is I have the experience with him to know that if he were town he shouldn't be. None of his contributions in this game have been even remotely endearing, and yet I've seen plenty of content sending up red flags, as early as 106. 108 was hollow as well, with no purpose behind it. His reads such as in 177 are opposite what they should be, and he is someone who I respect as a punhunter. Being on vacation feels like more of an excuse than anything else; he is posting plenty, he is reading everything (both of these are self-evident if you look at his iso), and yet in spite of this he is doing virtually nothing.
I’m not sure who you are but this is bullshit. You have went way down on my list.
If it were bullshit as you say, then you'd be able to explain why it was bullshit. You're not as incompetent/lackluster as you are pretending to be.
In post 555, Nahdia wrote:I think their being stilted is pretty well excused by there being no votes. I think their progression towards and the way they claimed came off as town.
I very strongly do not think a lack of votes justifies being stilted. It is an excuse for slacking off, nothing more, especially given that the mod announced from the onset a willingness to track the votes even though they hold no weight. Check . That is Errantparabola's first votecount; the precedence for voting had already been established.

PenguinPower's complaint . Check the timestamps as well. Errantparabola's post 100 has no edit mark. That means it was not edited at a later date. That means it was made on Monday, June 4th; PenguinPower's post complaining was on Wednesday, June 6th. The moderator was
already providing a service that PenguinPower was complaining about a lack of
. His complaint was thus an excuse. Nothing more; the stilted nature of his entrance cannot be reasonably explained by it.

Furthermore, the progression of his claim is the opposite of town. He didn't immediately counter my claim. It was only when players began to show suspicion of his contributions to the game that he provided his claim. When that claim proved to make things worse rather than better, he fullclaimed. He knew he was getting in trouble, and was hoping the truth would make him look better.

This was one of the contributing factors in my decision to fullclaim. PenguinPower's claim progression was meant to protect him from being voted off N1...and if I didn't realclaim, he'd have gotten away with it because people like you were buying it.
Here I respond to the people who responded to where I explain my reads. I offer to show in greater detail, a post by post take on Vaxkiller as to why my read there has shifted so much. I clarify that I am not producing rankings lists, but READS lists. I then go on the offensive, both by pressuring Screenplay, and by outlining why PenguinPower is pun.
In post 707, Punreader wrote:
In post 662, Chara wrote:i want to say Pine is scum, but i'm finding it difficult to rationalize what scum Pine's plan is this game, at all.
I already outlined it. Pine's team this game has some reasonable distancing, but is largely playing the same game: lackluster posting, lurking, and not contributing much. Giving the bare minimum to pass by, not drawing attention. Letting the active posters duke it out in town V town fighting, and subtly supporting this from the background. Focusing on mechanics talk rather than punhunting, for cheap towncred while avoiding giving hard stances that are difficult to back out of.

Is this an original plan? Why no, no it isn't. Is it a "boring" plan? Why yes, yes it is; it is thoroughly uninspired. Why doesn't that disqualify it from being Pine's plan? Because Pine is incredibly pragmatic and opportunistic. If he sees an opening to use a strategy, it doesn't matter how boring/unoriginal it is. He'll use it anyway because a plan which is boring yet practical is a more surefire way to win the game. He doesn't need to make flashy maneuvers. Flashy maneuvers are Pine's desperation moves, when he is backed into a corner.

The most unorthodox part of Pine's pun stratagem lies in his nightkills, something we haven't witnessed yet. His dayplay is not something very creative as he has no need to shift gears from the plan he knows will work, until something (like a player who is on an alt that secretly has loads of experience with him he was unaware of) throws a wrench in the plan. And he doesn't even enact that until the last possible moment; if he thinks he can salvage his original plan, at every opportunity, he will.

I can cite Turn of Camn as the most fresh example of this; at every point he was adamantly against altering the plan to account for Ellibereth, until he was given no choice. You were there so you should know precisely what I am talking about. Pine's play is his textbook punplay this game. He hasn't shifted gears yet because he still holds hope his plan will work, so it's still on display for all to see.
Here I explain what Pine's pungame is, and why his plan this game is it.
In post 708, Punreader wrote:
In post 673, Dunnstral wrote:Pine is scummy on this page
Immensely so, and it is proof of the concept I am referring to.

He is shifting focus away from punhunting, and onto theory discussion. Theory discussion has the benefit of looking town and can offer him immediate towncred, while also distracting the town because theory discussion bears no ACTUAL alignment relevance.
Here I bring up by proxy examples of the behavior I am citing from Pine which are his pungame, and explaining why they are indicative of him being pun.
In post 709, Punreader wrote:
In post 700, PenguinPower wrote:I'm certain that he half claimed, then admitted to lying about his claim, then added a N1 modifier after being asked to vig me.
This is a fine narrative but one which fails to live up to reality.
This was a proxy-callout of the punteam. Pine, TehBrawlGuy, and PenguinPower have all taken similar stances on the nature of my role, as if there were a discussion behind closed doors.

Since I know that's not a neighborhood with daychat, there's only one option that comes to mind.
In post 712, Punreader wrote:
In post 711, Punreader wrote:
In post 705, Srceenplay wrote:
In post 703, Punreader wrote:If it were bullshit as you say, then you'd be able to explain why it was bullshit. You're not as incompetent/lackluster as you are pretending to be.
That’s bull shit as well because you would know that I am incompetent at explaining.
No, you claim you are but you're not. You explain things better than you are pretending. Furthermore, you actually
try
to explain things. You don't leave things as empty statements; you still explain in spite of the "incompetence" at explaining.

I know this in part because I have a similar perspective as pun; I underestimate my own competency as town and pretend I am a worse town player than I actually am, and
this
is what I am saying you are doing. You are stating you are incompetent when I know for a fact you are not actually that incompetent. You likely have a self-perception you're not that incompetent, and thus as pun you "mute" your own competency.

Perhaps I am not explaining this as well as I should, but I feel my message gets across. There is a disconnect between the level of skill I have witnessed from you when you've been town, and the level of skill you are displaying in this game. That disconnect most likely originates from a perception of "I'm not a good town player, so I need to pretend I'm not a good player", leading to you as pun being less competent than you should be.
Another way of stating this:
I do not believe you're lying about thinking it's bullshit.
I do not believe you
think
you're lying about being incompetent.
I believe you fully
think
that you're incompetent as town.
But I believe that perception is flawed, and that you're
not actually incompetent as town in spite of believing you're incompetent as town
.
And
due to this flawed perception, as pun you act incompetently
.
Which introduces the disconnect.
Here I engage Screenplay and go into greater detail as to why I am punreading him.
In post 729, Punreader wrote:
In post 724, Nahdia wrote:i feel like scum is lurking pretty hard rn.
Then you should rate Pine 0 and give a low rating to Screenplay.
Here I directly call Pine and Screenplay lurkers, as the most blatant examples.
That's the most important takeaways from my content.
Let me give an Alternative perspective.
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Post Post #1317 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 5:49 pm

Post by the worst »

In post 1307, Punreader wrote:Given this, we can fairly safely assume nobody lied about their scores.

If someone had lied about their scores, I'd be expecting a far greater discrepancy between my calculated scores and the proven scores.
I agree.
got some super spicy stuff in a spreadsheet at home which I'll post once Srceen's slot fills. Idk how to calculate your average exactly though.
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1318 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:01 pm

Post by Chara »

so Espeonage is probably higher than Fire, so Fire's claimed role has a reversed cop result. and Fire got a guilty, so his claim in the end is Espeon town after the confusion is all dealt with. is that right?
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Post Post #1319 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:07 pm

Post by Chara »

mod: did Nico's role double her own 10 too?


according to her flip, it's her "rankings of other people" that are doubled, but that may just be the word choice and it affects all of her rankings.
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Post Post #1320 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:08 pm

Post by the worst »

In post 1318, Chara wrote:so Espeonage is probably higher than Fire, so Fire's claimed role has a reversed cop result. and Fire got a guilty, so his claim in the end is Espeon town after the confusion is all dealt with. is that right?
Yup.

I'll post the table once srceen's results are out and I can reasonably guess the balance but there's like a 2% chance Fire outranked Espe here.
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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Post Post #1321 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:09 pm

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also good shout wrt Nico. my interpretation is it wouldn't double hers but
ヽ(`⌒´)ノ
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Post Post #1322 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:22 pm

Post by Chara »

same here, and it has an effect enough on the rankings that i want to know.

but regarding non-mechanical things, i don't know if i trust Maria or not. but that's alright, i still love her. was townreading Nahdia day 1, but i hope they're feeling better because i need to update the read and what i have to examine so far isn't enough. but looking into Penguin would at least be helpful for reading Nahdia.

every player who knows me in any real capacity ranked me high. i'm waiting for my SUPP winner banner, thanks guys.
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Post Post #1323 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:24 pm

Post by Chara »

Deas: can you tell me about Vaxkiller town and why i'm in the same tier as Srceenplay? and also Shoshin scum.
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Post Post #1324 (ISO) » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:27 pm

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you're #1 like guaranteed lol, by some margin
who's scum? i haven't read up yet but like, it's me
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