Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Gosrir Elmer Odels]

In 1132 Nos is talking to Garmr in a way that seems to assume Garmr's town. Yet Nos's currently voting Garmr.

1133 seems like genuine town frustration. "Dragging it in circles" is a strikingly town thing to say imo.

@teacher: You haven't answered my question about Garmr & WM yet.

[Nosferatu]

I'll get to the rest but

You never actually said you scum read invis you just said he could go. That could of been for any amount of reasons Like you could of null read him and wanted him out to be sorted or a policy lynch ect. Also you said geo and performer weren't your top scum reads either.

don't be fucking stupid

why would i have wanted to policy lynch invis? If I clearly said I wanted him to die, it's cause I scumread him. You're just coming up with random shit now.

[PenguinPower]

Searching for a replacement for ByronVilla

[Nosferatu]

1.If you don't get my point you're dumb or playing dumb I think it's the latter. The way you wrote the list would could be the same or a read change to null unlike your two previous scum read who are clearly represented as scum. Also you keep cherry picking points to try and shake off my argument.

A.You keeped silent about your intent to vote him or not. Fact
B.You were in a position due to your actions to jump on his wagon or not. Fact
C. You can't deny the fact it doesn't benefit a scum or put a town intent and you haven't tried to argue these points. Fact
D1.Instead of focusing on the core argument you focus on the word choice saying I found your reads vague (which I found you were). Fact
D2.Even if you show you weren't vague Facts A and B are the stronger points and stand on there own don't try to present my argument as crumbling by cherry picking.

I'm not cherry picking shit

STOP SAYING THAT I WROTE THE LIST IN A VAGUE WAY OR TO CHANGE IT LATER. IF I WANTED TO POSITION MYSELF TO VOTE INVIS, I WOULD HAVE KEPT HIM IN MY SCUMREADS PLAIN AND FUCKING SIMPLE.

what you're saying is the most dumbfuck shit I've ever heard and a terrible way to position myself to vote someone.

I'm already transfuckingparently playing in a way that allows me to throw my vote around.

someone asked me to provide a readslist when invis was L-3 and already the likely lynch. You tell me why the fuck scum!me logically would put invis as a null read, when I had commented on exactly 0 of his posts beforehand and thus had no ostensible reason to change my reason.

A. you keep fucking framing it as i should have given a definite for sure "i will/won't support this" lynch. the sheer fact that i didnt oppose the wagon and that i previously vote should be clear enough fucking evidence to show that i either dont fucking care or want the lynch. now including the fact that i DIDNT EVEN VOTE THE WAGON THAT YOURE ACCUSING ME OF POSITIONING MYSELF TO VOTE, there should be OVERWHELMING evidence as to how much i cared about the invis lynch dude

B. I wasn't positioned to do shit. I could have voted everyone in {Invis, GEO, teacher, wave, garmr, tommy}. You act like I was in some scheme to vote invis specifically, when it literally could have been all of these people, and that's how I know you're talking fucking bullshit. Any reasonable person would say that I put myself in a position to vote any of these people, but you're specifically pushing invis, which is because he specifically flipped town and it's thus seemingly an easier argument to convince everyone else of. But it's fucking dumb to say I positioned myself to vote invis when I could have voted LITERALLY HALF THE FUCKING PLAYERLIST WITH EASE. AND ON TOP OF IT I DIDN'T VOTE HIM. If I were scum I would have just fucking voted before I went afk. What you're saying is anti-scum in that I'm literally just not voting a town mislynch.

C. My actual actions may benefit scum but what you're arguing is not that. You're arguing something fucking stupid, that I positioned myself to vote someone specific when in reality my playstyle (and this isn't meta right here) this game pretty transparently allows me to put my vote in a lot of places. The intentions you're accusing me of taking just didn't happen and aren't able to be inferred from my actions.

D1. BEING VAGUE IS YOUR CORE ARGUMENT

you're telling me that I made my stance on invis VAGUE so I could VOTE HIM

AND NOW I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT I WASN'T BEING VAGUE?

what the actual fuck?

D2. I legitimately cannot fucking believe this. How the fuck am I cherry picking or misrepresenting your headass argument?

So that leaves us with two situations

-Invis was your so called top scum read and you didn't react to his wagon or his lynch and held back
-Invis wasn't your so called top scum read and you never mentioned your top scum read or voted for him/her. Showing you didn't care about lynching your top scum read at all. If you actually had one

Neither of these scream town to me.

- you can't say this when I gave an ordered list where there are people below him. period
- I didn't have one and I said it in plain fucking english. You're trying to act like you have to infer it when it's literally right there

2. Let's rewind to exactly how we got to me "strawmanning your argument", and stop me when I'm wrong.

You quoted 484 AS AN EXAMPLE of me not getting info out of someone else to get reads.

I said "that's a shitty example for this point, but I don't do what your point is talking about"

You then said "find me an example where you did something with a line of questioning"

and I then gave you a whole game where I didn't use a line of questioning as town.

Then you bring it back and frame it as something else, that this one post does not push them game forward, but your original point was

You haven't done anything with the questions you asked to form any reads.

which I answered in a perfectly legitimate fashion: That I don't do that regardless of alignment.
I didn't strawman shit, you made a wrong argument with a bad example, and now that I've shown why your argument is wrong, you're trying to frame it around the example that had nothing to do with your actual point. And to boot, I did answer the argument with regards to the headass example as well.

[Tchill13]

oh my looooord at the replace outs.

[Tommy Egan]

Thinking Tchill is town now.

Nos scum, Teacher scum

[BlueBloodedToffee]

first, if you actually read the post in question, you'd see that I'm not, in fact, using PoE to scumread teacher. Poe simply pushes him further down, i.e. I'm using PoE to vote him rather than, say, tommy

second, if you actually read my iso, I specifically said I'm fine with lynching on wagon but I'd want it to be Egan. Why would my wiggle room be to go after nos or lefty?

third, If you actually read the conversation you'd see that all I'm saying in general is that I'm not certain that 2 scum were on the invis wagon. I'm not making a statement about how I feel about lefty or nos at all

get better at reading maybe?

fourth, and maybe this is a post-game discussion to be had, but what is wrong with reevaluating your reads after flips? Sometimes your day 1 reads are wrong, shocker! I'd be more suspicious of someone never reevaluating the game properly. sorry but you sound like the 2-week-olds I get in newbie games. This mindset mafiascum players seem to have that it's scummy to go after people you used to townread, sort of needs to die

I mean, you're using PoE to vote teacher. Whatever way you want to word it, you're using your town leans in order to PoE and vote someone else. But you don't feel confident enough to call them town. That's bullshit. You're not committing to the reads to allow an easy reversal (which I will speak more of in a moment).

My wiggle room comment was very clearly aimed at how you have PoE'd the people off the wagon - I said nothing about people on the wagon. You leave wiggle room to vote someone else off the wagon if teacher flips town (which seems unlikely but is still possible). You have taken that comment out of context and applied it to a different situation. Naughty, naughty.

Like, you try to insult my reading ability when the only thing I commented on was you being non-committal with your town reads. You have gone off on a tangent and started talking about things I wasn't even talking about. There is nothing wrong with reevaluating reads AFTER flips, but what you're doing is being non-committal on reads BEFORE flips so that AFTER flips you can switch your reads around more easily. For example, if I wanted to reverse my Nos (lean) town read, it would be very easy to do so as I have not committed to that read as strongly as I have to say Garmr or NM (Lefty). Those two reads would be much harder for me to backtrack on without gaining significant attention.

What you're doing is the former. You town leaned two people to Poe vote a third but then refrained from actually calling them town. That's scummy.

Garmr, what is your read on Tommy?

I like tommy and town read him. I been town reading him for a while. I liked his nos push day 1 also i'm not 100% sure but I think can see some suspicion of tchill in his post 1040, but he looks like gathering information instead of making accusations straight away.

Just to make sure I understand does your town read on Tommy rely mainly on him scum reading Nos? Is there anything outside of that?

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@bbt look at TChill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

I've already admitted to not liking TChill's play D2 and that's mainly due to how some of our main reads have clashed. However, I don't think a clash of reads makes someone scum and I still see town motivation in his posts. I have no intention of lynching TChill today but depending on certain flips this read is subject to change as I'm nowhere near as confident as I was on D1.

Would like to point out how much of a struggle it was get a nos wagon going with legit points. But when it comes to my wagon I get a lot of blank votes with no reasoning, kinda funny how the wagon came after I said I'm start going to apply some pressure for actual reasoning on a read. Isn't the point of mafia to get information?

I don't think the Nos wagon was a struggle to get going, IIRC the wagon grew to around 4 (?) votes fairly quickly. I also agree that your wagon grew very quickly and there was 100% scum influence on that wagon (reminder that I need to look at it more closely.)

I'll go either way honestly because I highly doubt garmr and nos are the same alignment.

How have you ruled out that they both could be town?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Votecount 2.05

Garmr

(4): Not_Mafia, Nosferatu, Performer, Tchill13

Huh.

Nos could be scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

i think nos or garmr should be the lynch.

Why do you scum read Garmr?

You're right. I don't feel that I need to cater the presentation of my reads to help the town.

if you think that's scummy you can lynch me.

Stuff like this makes me think Nos is town - he doesn't conform to 'traditional town play' and I'm trying to work out if that is why I want to scum read him.

Garmr's town, Nos's scum.

VOTE: Nos

Talk more about the Nos scum read? (I see you have elaborated slightly further down the page but is there more?)

Guys who's scum nos or garmr? And why

Garmr is never today's lynch. I don't know why today has to be between Nos and Garmr though? Thoughts on Tommy?

If we don't lynch nos or garmr, who's the best scum candidate? I say teacher.

I'd agree with this. Teacher is a good lynch.

I'll read their isos and reread that case but I had thought Garmr and Teacher looked town.

Forgot you were in this game - talk about your Teacher town read?

In 1132 Nos is talking to Garmr in a way that seems to assume Garmr's town. Yet Nos's currently voting Garmr.

This isn't a scum tell. Never has been, never will be. The amount of times I do this (as either alignment) is unbelievable. Just because you scum read someone you don't splash that intention across all of your posts. If you think along these lines then it can go as far as 'I'm not talking to you because you're scum' which is obviously silly.

Nos scum, Teacher scum

Briefly summarise why Nos is scum? And who would you prefer out of the two?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think teacher should be the lynch today.

[Tommy Egan]

Ugh @bbt you really gotta read my posts. You said i didn't push Nos earlier and even Nos confirmed I did now you're asking for a summary despite my reasons being available.

In short though active lurking, providing nothing and some quotes that ping me but I'm phone posting just now so I'll grab the quotes later.

I'd prefer Nos but more than happy to lynch either of them today.

[Garmr]

I think teacher should be the lynch today.

You mean not mafia? I would perfer a nos lynch which is why I forced the spot light onto me and him. But I wouldn't oppose a a not mafia lynch either. As my wagon obviously has/had 1 or more scum on it.

Garmr, what is your read on Tommy?

I like tommy and town read him. I been town reading him for a while. I liked his nos push day 1 also i'm not 100% sure but I think can see some suspicion of tchill in his post 1040, but he looks like gathering information instead of making accusations straight away.

Just to make sure I understand does your town read on Tommy rely mainly on him scum reading Nos? Is there anything outside of that?

Other than that? Gut

Calling these two out now in a scum team now

Nosf,Tchill I'm having trouble with the third member of the scum team.

@bbt look at TChill day 2 action doesn't that scream obvious scum.

I've already admitted to not liking TChill's play D2 and that's mainly due to how some of our main reads have clashed. However, I don't think a clash of reads makes someone scum and I still see town motivation in his posts. I have no intention of lynching TChill today but depending on certain flips this read is subject to change as I'm nowhere near as confident as I was on D1.

Well If I die I want my case on him to have some significance I want someone to follow it up.

Would like to point out how much of a struggle it was get a nos wagon going with legit points. But when it comes to my wagon I get a lot of blank votes with no reasoning, kinda funny how the wagon came after I said I'm start going to apply some pressure for actual reasoning on a read. Isn't the point of mafia to get information?

I don't think the Nos wagon was a struggle to get going, IIRC the wagon grew to around 4 (?) votes fairly quickly. I also agree that your wagon grew very quickly and there was 100% scum influence on that wagon (reminder that I need to look at it more closely.)

My beginning pushes were ignored but once it pushed off it spiked up. Looking back the spot light was on someone else when I made the initial comment, it would of probably been ignored if I didn't keep pushing and nos would still be in the shadows.

[Garmr]

I'll get to the rest but

You never actually said you scum read invis you just said he could go. That could of been for any amount of reasons Like you could of null read him and wanted him out to be sorted or a policy lynch ect. Also you said geo and performer weren't your top scum reads either.

don't be fucking stupid

why would i have wanted to policy lynch invis? If I clearly said I wanted him to die, it's cause I scumread him. You're just coming up with random shit now.

... I'm not saying that's what you were doing I'm saying with you being that silent those were possibilities.

[wavemode]

I mean, you're using PoE to vote teacher. Whatever way you want to word it, you're using your town leans in order to PoE and vote someone else. But you don't feel confident enough to call them town. That's bullshit. You're not committing to the reads to allow an easy reversal (which I will speak more of in a moment).

My wiggle room comment was very clearly aimed at how you have PoE'd the people off the wagon - I said nothing about people on the wagon. You leave wiggle room to vote someone else off the wagon if teacher flips town (which seems unlikely but is still possible). You have taken that comment out of context and applied it to a different situation. Naughty, naughty.

Like, you try to insult my reading ability when the only thing I commented on was you being non-committal with your town reads. You have gone off on a tangent and started talking about things I wasn't even talking about. There is nothing wrong with reevaluating reads AFTER flips, but what you're doing is being non-committal on reads BEFORE flips so that AFTER flips you can switch your reads around more easily. For example, if I wanted to reverse my Nos (lean) town read, it would be very easy to do so as I have not committed to that read as strongly as I have to say Garmr or NM (Lefty). Those two reads would be much harder for me to backtrack on without gaining significant attention.

What you're doing is the former. You town leaned two people to Poe vote a third but then refrained from actually calling them town. That's scummy.

i mean, all im reading is a lot of text that essentially says "yes im ignoring the context of what you said, because i'd rather focus on it out of context." mehhh i've officially lost interest in this debate. you can think what you want about me

[Garmr]

I'm am cherry picking

fixed

STOP SAYING THAT I WROTE THE LIST IN A VAGUE WAY OR TO CHANGE IT LATER. IF I WANTED TO POSITION MYSELF TO VOTE INVIS, I WOULD HAVE KEPT HIM IN MY SCUMREADS PLAIN AND FUCKING SIMPLE.

would never position myself to vote someone as scum, especially given the playstyle I've decided to go with this game. I'm townhunting, so I'll vote legit anyone as long as they're not in my stronger townreads. Positioning myself to vote invis is unnecessary because

I put myself in a position to vote literally anyone pretty early on in this game. In fact, I was actually planning on voting invis, but he got hammered when I was afk.

I also did give an indication that his position changed.

So lets start with the Bold first. You're saying you never needed to position yourself to vote invis but thje lower comment indicates you did and not just invis but everyone.

So my point still stands you were positioned to vote invis yet you gave absolutely no reaction to the wagon despite him being a earlier scum read. You gave no intent you were going to vote for latter for a hammer.

these are facts.

Doesn't matter what you actually said your read of him


Now for the italics
You didn't give a fucking clear one.

I'm not trying to approach this game from a readlist perspective like I usually do, but I'll do it once to give perspective

{Tchill, Lefty, Byron, Gus}
{BBT, Performer}
{Invis}
{GEO, teacher}
{wave, garmr, tommy}

Normally I start from the middle and branch out but I wanted to start from the bottom and grow up instead, so the bottom rung isn't necessarily just the scummiest of the earth to me, but instead they're people that haven't shown themselves as town, since the number of things I'm juggling at once right now sorta necessitates townhunting in most of my games.

pedit: see i knew you would ask that so ^^^

Your middle one invis is that null or null scum since your two scum reads geo and teacher aren't on the bottom. Your bottom reads could be null the way your formatted it. It no way is a indicater.

A. you keep fucking framing it as i should have given a definite for sure "i will/won't support this" lynch. the sheer fact that i didnt oppose the wagon and that i previously vote should be clear enough fucking evidence to show that i either dont fucking care or want the lynch. now including the fact that i DIDNT EVEN VOTE THE WAGON THAT YOURE ACCUSING ME OF POSITIONING MYSELF TO VOTE, there should be OVERWHELMING evidence as to how much i cared about the invis lynch dude

You admitted it yourself earlier you were in the position to vote him. The rest of this post is pretty much Appeal to emotion. Caps locks galore.

B. I wasn't positioned to do shit. I could have voted everyone in {Invis, GEO, teacher, wave, garmr, tommy}. You act like I was in some scheme to vote invis specifically, when it literally could have been all of these people, and that's how I know you're talking fucking bullshit. Any reasonable person would say that I put myself in a position to vote any of these people, but you're specifically pushing invis, which is because he specifically flipped town and it's thus seemingly an easier argument to convince everyone else of. But it's fucking dumb to say I positioned myself to vote invis when I could have voted LITERALLY HALF THE FUCKING PLAYERLIST WITH EASE. AND ON TOP OF IT I DIDN'T VOTE HIM. If I were scum I would have just fucking voted before I went afk. What you're saying is anti-scum in that I'm literally just not voting a town mislynch.

It's not a scheme, It was result of your hesitance as scum to place a vote because you knew he was going to flip town also the wagon may of dropped before leaving so you questioned about your vote him. So you as scum would have to juggle between getting a easy mislynch and people looking back at the wagon to hunt for scum on it. Never in your wildest did you think I Garmr would catch you and call you out for it.

C.

My actual actions may benefit scum

but what you're arguing is not that. You're arguing something fucking stupid, that I positioned myself to vote someone specific when in reality my playstyle (and this isn't meta right here) this game pretty transparently allows me to put my vote in a lot of places. The intentions you're accusing me of taking just didn't happen and aren't able to be inferred from my actions.

You can stop right there at the bolded because that's exactly what my main argument is. What you are focusing on is a lesser point which was only mean to enchant the main argument. You are the one who tried to frame you being vague it as my main argument to shake off the heat.

Which makes you scum.

D1. BEING VAGUE IS YOUR CORE ARGUMENT

you're telling me that I made my stance on invis VAGUE so I could VOTE HIM

AND NOW I CAN'T TELL YOU THAT I WASN'T BEING VAGUE?

what the actual fuck?

D2. I legitimately cannot fucking believe this. How the fuck am I cherry picking or misrepresenting your headass argument?

straw man
noun
noun: strawman
1.
an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

Being vague isn't the core argument it's your actions benefited a scum nos. Vague on it's own isn't scum anyway. But lets see what the line your arguing against is

5. Put himself in a position where he could lynch invis if he wanted to but waited to see how people would react. Was online for role reveal didn't put his thoughts down on invisible wagon. Put in a fluffy statement anyone could of made. Nos also made it clear that invis was a scum read early so I would think he would at least have a reaction to invi being lynched.

Doesn't seem to me you being vague is a core part of it. Because in your words you would still vote him. So who cares if it was a scum read or a null read. You didn't tell anyone you were going to vote or had the intentions and waited to see what happened. So lets pretend you weren't vague for a second still doesn't effect my case as a whole.

2. Let's rewind to exactly how we got to me "strawmanning your argument", and stop me when I'm wrong.

You quoted 484 AS AN EXAMPLE of me not getting info out of someone else to get reads.

I said "that's a shitty example for this point, but I don't do what your point is talking about"

You then said "find me an example where you did something with a line of questioning"

and I then gave you a whole game where I didn't use a line of questioning as town.

So you did a line of questioning this game and you show a town game where you didn't do it at all. My point was you did nothing (nothing showed in your reads) with your questioning so it's basically filler and basically a attempt to look town. Not you don't question as town. How hard is it to understand what you linked me is different from what i'm asking.

Then you bring it back and frame it as something else, that this one post does not push them game forward, but your original point was
You haven't done anything with the questions you asked to form any reads.


which I answered in a perfectly legitimate fashion: That I don't do that regardless of alignment.

This shows you knew I was talking about you doing stuff with question you asked this game.

[Garmr]

@nos
Two simple questions then that sorts out your bullshit roundabout arguing.
Would your actions yesterday benefit a scum around the invis wagon benefit a scum nos yes or no? 9I think it's pretty clear all the ways it would of)
What benefit did it bring to a town nos?

[teacher]

Im amazed nobody has done VCA on the lynch yet. The one thing that we all know for sure is that Invis is town. We have also discussed whether there was one or two scum on the wagon. I think two, alot of you think one. Even if youre right and Im wrong, the one scum was likely in place early -- its a town wagon that stayed as a leader for days and acquired a certain air of inevitability. So lets go to the video tape.

VC lynch -5

Invisibility

(3):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla

VC lynch -4

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla, BlueBloodedToffee

VC lynch -3

Invisibility

(3):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla

VC lynch -1

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

ByronVilla,Tchill13

THE CLAIM HAPPENED HERE, at 733.

VC lynch -5hrs

Invisibility

(4):

Garmr, Performer,

Tchill13, Tommy Egan

VC lynch

Invisibility

(7):

Garmr, Performer,

Tchill13, Tommy Egan, Gustavo, Gosrir Elmer Odels, BlueBloodedToffee

What makes this persistency particularly interesting is that the only person to really push the wagon, at least until the claim, was TChill. Garmr pushed a bit from 500-550 (particularly to Wave and Gus); Performer didnt really push much at all. This difference, as well as their other general play/lurking, is why I scummed Performer and towned Garmr. But nobody was interested in Performer when I pushed them earlier today, and Garmr is a leading wagon. Will someone voting Garmr explain a case -- if there has been one, I missed it.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Ugh @bbt you really gotta read my posts. You said i didn't push Nos earlier and even Nos confirmed I did now you're asking for a summary despite my reasons being available.

In short though active lurking, providing nothing and some quotes that ping me but I'm phone posting just now so I'll grab the quotes later.

I'd prefer Nos but more than happy to lynch either of them today.

No, I didn't say you didn't push Nos. I said you pushed Nos so hard that I don't remember you doing it. Misrep.

I mean, when I'm on a laptop I'll go grab your posts for why Nos is scum and we can analyze them. Because there really isn't a whole lot and I would argue that you spent a lot of D1 seemingly having a stronger scum read on BV but doing nothing about it.

Also, can you talk about your shift onto the Invis wagon?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Aristo, you didn't respond to my earlier post either. Make sure you do that please.

[teacher]

1. In 213 you named WM to be your "hardest townread." In your readlist you write a lot about why he's town, but you don't mention at all why he got relegated to just a townlean.
2. What did you like about 842 in particular? I personally felt that he did have a point, however, he presented it in an intellectually unsatisfying (? maybe manipulative?) way, by which I mean that on his lists there are many points that are practically duplicates or one entails the other.

1. Wave was downgraded because I see some inconsistencies in his play. I already gave an example in 500, so am surprised your asking the question. But it was also because his participation after my way early reads felt more fluffy and less solvey.

2. I actually really loved 842's presentation. Between this and 571, I think I know how his mind works, and it is consistent with his other posts. (This, btw, is what I was referring to w/r/t Tommy Egan's catchup. It felt like he was trying to emulate 571, which I had already TR'ed Garmr for in 634). But what I really liked about 842 is that it was pushing for a likely mislynch - something I dont think scum wants to do, even if the reasoning is right.

[teacher]

what style that was townread was I copying here?? Show me quotes cause you have lost me there.

To be clear, I was answering this question above. I feel like your 684 copied the style of Garmr's 571, which I TRed in 634. Why I decided to call this out, though, is to BEG you to fix the formatting of your posts. Half the time -- including this example -- your own content is in quotes, making it easy to skim or miss. If that happens, please please EBWOP.

[teacher]

My preferred lynch pool is still (Performer, Aristo, Tommy)

Out of the two leading wagons, unless someone can give me an actual Garmr case, Id prefer Nos. Though I think he's town, he's certainly coasting which Garmrs not.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

These are so bad, nos can I have a readslist if there isn't one between pages 21 onwards.

This is in relation to two posts from a conversation with Nos and myself.

The intention is clearly there and now I have kicked up a fuss about it nobody will be leaving is easily/quietly.

I have forced people on the wagon to defend their position on it. They had the chance to get off - and didn't take it. Now they're committed.

yeah ok but there was no reason to do this. People don't get lynched on page 18.

Don't they? Fuck it you're scum to me now.

And then this. And all of a sudden Nos is super scum. You have made a total of 2 posts relating to Nos - I don't understand the conviction in this read. Can you explain why that statement from Nos was so scummy?

be careful scumreading gus

you might just be a closet bigot

That’s also interesting but could be nothing

well it means they're not scum together.

Yeah, of the 4 on my wagon, disliking Nos the most. Added to sr . Feels like he's sliding by and just keeping his read there on me.

gonna do something about it?

Oh look Nos still literally providing nothing. I know that's rich coming from me but active lurking is 100% worse than not posting at all. The fact people are town reading this active lurking genuinely concerns me.

Then this - which seems slightly unfair on Nos given that the second post is clearly providing content.

Then at the end of this post you vote Nos - after reviewing your reasoning I fail to see how your Nos scum read is so strong. In fact, that troubles me that this is still your strongest scum read in the entire game given this is your reasoning. Your reasoning for BV!scum seem much stronger and yet you never entertain it.

What don't you get about the nos vote? I have my reasons more than once in my posts

From this point on, you just make posts like this (which you only did once on D1) as if to avoid having to address your scum read. I see now why you won't reiterate your points - it's a super weak read and yet your strongest in the game.

So I think my point about your push on Nos being weak on D1 was correct, you made a total of 4 posts maximum related to him (and they were contained in walls). You didn't push Nos very hard at all and yet entered D2 like Nos was confirmed scum.

After reviewing this, Tommy's reads are super weak. I don't understand how you think you pushed Nos so hard and yet you spent the majority of D1 actually pushing on BV. And then somehow you end up on the Invis wagon.

VOTE: Tommy

This is the lynch for Today.

[Performer]

Sigh.
These wall posts are hurting me. Just via a skim of the debate, I feel like nos is town.

Teacher's 1166 post on pg 47 , is a sign that he's not working with anyone, and that he has no twisted agenda. So I don't think teacher is scum. The super long debate between garm and nos is like when parents and kids fight, which is hard to watch and a little painful to parse for understanding.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Performer, read my post on Tommy and give me your thoughts please.