SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[the worst]

PAGETOP YES

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Code: Select all

~RECEIVER~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
GIVER~TehBrawlGuy~Taly~Punreader~MariaR~DeasVail~Espeonage~Dunnstral~Nahdia~the worst~Pine~Shoshin~Fire Assassin~Lovebird~Chara~ManWithNoName~Vaxkiller~PenguinPower~NicoRobin
TehBrawlGuy~10~1~10~8~5~0~9~6~2~10~7~4~5~6~3~4~0~0
Taly~5~10~10~6~6~0~2~4~9~5~8~1~3~10~7~0~0~4
Punreader~0~10~10~6~4~6~9~8~5~0~7~5~2~10~1~4~0~3
MariaR~9~4~10~10~5~10~5~0~8~2~4~3~0~6~6~1~7~0
DeasVail~3~10~10~0~10~2~4~5~9~4~8~5~1~6~7~6~0~0
Espeonage~9~8~4~5~6~10~10~4~7~0~3~0~1~5~2~10~6~0
Dunnstral~2~9~7~6~4~8~10~5~5~4~3~10~0~10~6~0~1~0
Nahdia~4~5~10~3~5~6~2~10~7~4~6~9~1~10~0~0~8~0
the worst~6~10~5~8~6~9~2~7~10~4~3~1~0~10~0~4~5~0
Pine~10~9~0~~~~~0~~10~~8~~10~~~0~
Shoshin~8~10~5~0~6~3~6~4~9~1~10~2~0~10~7~5~0~4
Fire Assassin~8~2~3~9~5~0~4~10~7~4~6~10~1~10~6~0~4~0
Lovebird~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Chara~10~10~8~6~5~4~5~9~7~0~6~4~3~10~0~0~2~1
ManWithNoName~10~10~4~1~0~0~6~5~7~4~8~5~3~9~10~6~0~2
Vaxkiller~0~0~7~0~6~4~2~10~5~10~4~9~5~3~6~10~8~1
PenguinPower~9~0~0~10~8~7~10~3~6~2~4~4~5~0~5~6~10~1
NicoRobin~4~6~0~8~8~20~14~12~12~20~0~0~2~16~10~10~18~10
~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE~AVERAGE
~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)~=AVERAGE(R[-19]C:R[-2]C)
~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS~TENS
~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)~=COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,10)+COUNTIF(R[-21]C:R[-4]C,20)
~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES~ZEROES
~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)~=COUNTIF(R[-23]C:R[-6]C,0)

step 1: in Excel go to File > Options > Formulas > R1C1 reference style

Spoiler:

step 2: copy above code, paste into a blank worksheet. select column A
step 3: data tab, text to columns

Spoiler:

step 4: Delimited > Next > Tick Other, enter a tilde (~) in the box > Next > Finish

Spoiler:

step 5: reverse step 1; un-select R1C1 (if you value your sanity in ongoing spreadsheet adventures)

[Taly]

On second thought, I don't want another replacement to muddy the waters here.
VOTE: Nahdia

Speaking as a player who specializes in turning punread town slots into strong townreads.

I do.

Especially when the Nahdia wagon reeks of being a pun counterwagon to the PenguinPower wagon.

And speaking as a player who's lost town games before due to waffling over scum-slots that have had 2+ replacements in them

I'd rather not.

But if you have a case for that slot or reason why we should wait, then I want to hear it. Plus, I don't get your scumread on

MNWW

.

[ManWithNoName]

ManNoWithWame here.

And, yeah, I'm not sure whether I want to address the stuff with punreader not liking my role because I don't understand it.

[DeasVail]

I've got to be honest about the fact that I'm feeling pretty disengaged with the game at the moment. It's a weird feeling of there being too much going on and also too little going on at the same time.

Nonetheless, this is my fault and I will work on this!

I'm a bit torn on PenguinPower because of the defeatist attitude of a lot of his posting, which would make me question my scumread. But what I keep coming back to is this:

- He is obviously still posting and at least somewhat engaged with the game. I don't think this is apathetic town.
- And if PP is not apathetic town, then why the obstructive posting?

I mean, the interaction with Shoshin is probably the most town thing I've seen from him, and it's not exactly super alignment relevant.

PP's play just seems to me, to fit much better with scum who doesn't like scum that much. Started off on the wrong foot and has just sort of been floating along since then, kind of expecting to be lynched at some point, but sort of indifferent to whether that happens or not.

But I'm not sure and I could definitely see myself switching to Nahdia in the heat of a MEOW MEOW MEOW!

[Chara]

i've never felt the urge to hammer more than i do now. :>

[PenguinPower]

You have my claim, and based on the worst's ranking my role is no better than a VT at this point, so feel free to.

Lynch Shoshin tomorrow though.

[Chara]

this is one of those games where i feel like i should be sheeping other people, because my reads are so different from my townreads'.

[PenguinPower]

I'm always confused by this, how is PP an "easy lynch" if it's taken over a week to get him to L-2?

Like, what is a hard lynch in people's books, then?

It hasn't taken a week. It took like less than 48 hours once the "guilty" crap settled down.

Maybe read the game.

[Chara]

and i keep coming back to Deas being equally happy with a Penguin and a Nahdia lynch. and also a Shoshin lynch, though he hasn't said so explicitly.

and this is entirely a side note: i've definitely said the phrase before so i'm not begrudging anyone from using it, but does 'this player is town because they said things with a town mindset'

really

say anything at all?

[Chara]

for what it's worth, i don't care about lynch speed. it often has a lot more to do with the game environment as a whole than the alignment of the player being wagoned.

[Shoshin]

Hey DV, I'm feeling disengaged too but I'm here now and trying to figure this out so please try getting into this. Forget all the roles/claims/results for a moment and talk to me about the behaviors here - what are your thoughts on Esp? Fire? Maria?

[Shoshin]

Chara, what're your reads at this point?

[Shoshin]

I'm sorry if you've said it before recently but this game is hard enough as it is and getting updates from players is very helpful.

[ManWithNoName]

I'm always confused by this, how is PP an "easy lynch" if it's taken over a week to get him to L-2?

Like, what is a hard lynch in people's books, then?

It hasn't taken a week. It took like less than 48 hours once the "guilty" crap settled down.

Maybe read the game.

I did, it's day 2, I know it formed quickly but several people seem to have suspected you day 1 and did nothing with it until a week into Day 2. I still think the lynch forming quickly is somewhat of an imagined narrative which does not take the full context of the game into account.

[Dunnstral]

You have my claim, and based on the worst's ranking my role is no better than a VT at this point, so feel free to.

Lynch Shoshin tomorrow though.

Nope, because you still never cased him. You dying doesn't mean I magically follow your reads, they get tossed in the trash with you where you guys belong

[MariaR]

Holy shit Dunn is angry

[Chara]

Chara, what're your reads at this point?

they're kind of a mess right now. i'm working on it but i don't have any sort of list to give you.

[Taly]

*sits next to Maria, Chara, and Dunn like*

*glaring at Shoshin, PP, and DV like*

*waiting for TW, TBG, and Pun like*

[PenguinPower]

Nope, because you still never cased him. You dying doesn't mean I magically follow your reads, they get tossed in the trash with you where you guys belong

gtfo with your hypocritical shit.

kthx.

[Chara]

right now i'd say most of my suspicion lies with Deas.
and i forgot to say this, but thanks for explaining Nahdia-scum, Maria.

i still don't know if i'm onboard. if they're town here i know exactly why they made all the posts they did, so it's very hard to scumread them for it.
i think Shoshin/Deas are my best scumreads right now, followed by Penguin.

i'm not happy for the why on Shoshin, considering it amounts to comparing her play to what i'd do in this situation, when disengaged. simply asking a lot of questions in a directed fashion feels lazy. Shoshin is putting the onus on everyone else to make content in her last several posts.

[Chara]

actually, now that i've typed that out, i like the Shoshin reasoning a bit more. it does bother me.

[Chara]

*glaring at Shoshin, PP, and DV like*

huh, i was wrong about disagreeing with my townreads.

[Taly]

by PoE and in-thread facts/theory alongside my personal interactions with people,

Shoshin/PP/DV/Nahdia

make the most sense as scum right now.

PP

is

being defeatist.

Shoshin

and

DV

are doing this weird soft-distancing from him, alongside not producing any other content.

I can't think all 3 of these people are scum being openly useless. Otherwise that'd just be funny and almost

"too good"

for town.

1, maybe 2 - and god forbid 3 of

Sho/PP/DV/Nah

are town, i doubt 18p would have a 4 person scumteam, and im actually open to hearing

Pun's

thinking on

MNWW

, i dont want to say anything else rn

other than another replacement will probably feel like a setback for town X_X

[Shoshin]

Alright, fuck it. I'll make some cases on my scumreads. Because apparently that's what you guys need to see that I'm town.

[Shoshin]

I think Penguin's scum and this is why:

1) His posting on D1 is really shitty. He kinda lurks and complains about how he can't get reads and how his role is negative utility. Nothing town in his posting and he admits it when pushed for this very reason.

2) He votes Taly after it's already pretty obvious that Taly's town and that Taly is sort of leading the town. There's a pretty clear scum agenda to the push on Taly - stop Taly from unifying the town - but why push Taly if he's town? It's just a very bizarre push, one that I can't make sense of. And he keeps pushing Taly throughout the game (see below).

3) His degree of certainty that Pun was scum on D1 simply didn't square with the game. Like, PP kept saying that he had no problems dying or getting ranked 0 as long as we killed Pun too because that's how certain he was that Pun was scum. It's absurd because no townie would have been that confident about Pun. As a secondary matter, PP's self-destructive appeal is the sort of thing that almost always comes from scum, almost always. Townies just don't do that sort of thing, whereas scum often do it as a way to manipulate townies into thinking the player doesn't care about self-preservation even though that's actually their #1 priority.

4) PP's rankings are shit and his entire approach to scumhunting doesn't make any sense from a town perspective. He categorically scumhunts the people who are townreading him in 970 - "I'm not town enough to be read as town so the scum are probably among the people townreading me" - and that just doesn't make any sense from a town perspective. It's actually a very scum-aligned thought process because the scum would KNOW that anyone who townreads them is wrong. Also, what happened to the scumread on Pun? He's dropped any semblance of a push on Pun.

5) He continues casting subtle shade at Taly by questioning why Taly isn't voting him. Weird question from a town perspective. Townies are usually suspicious of people who vote them, not suspicious of people who don't. The question implies yet again that he thinks people shouldn't be townreading him, which is a thought process that makes more sense from a scum perspective who knows players shouldn't be townreading him.

6) He says I'm town all game until I stopped posting. Then he says I'm scum and votes me. What changed? I became a viable mislynch. The real problem with PP's vote is that he tries to justify it by reference to my town meta in 1352, when actually the only reason to vote me is just that I stopped posting because I was disengaged (not AI for me - I've been prodded in my town games on THIS site, including a game that PP read, yet haven't been prodded yet in this one).

The entire way PP's playing is very manipulative, it doesn't cohere with a townie's mindset, and his votes are opportunistic, determined by the sway of collective opinion. There's nothing townie anywhere to be found in his posting. Yes, it's an easy lynch, because he's probably scum.