I understand that my approach to d1's are... questionable and when pushed to an extreme they're probably not healthy (never lylos, least info d1). So i just wanted to make sure it was known i was aware of that.
Why leave Nos to vote invis here? In actuality Nos was probably the best lynch d1.
In post 928, Gosrir Elmer Odels wrote:First things first, the most important new thing I've got right now, is that my townread on wavemode has been solidified. His comments from around the Invis wagon were definitely coming from a genuine PoV.
2nd: point is that everything said about teacher before the lynch is still valid. There's no change there, so VOTE: teacher.
This is nothing new, though.
Thirdly, BV's 912 & 917 do contradict each other, quite blatantly, but I fail to see why that's indicative of him being scum.
In post 751, Gosrir Elmer Odels wrote:@Tommy: You could've just read the game & made a post relevant to the current gamestate. Instead of what you ended up doing.
I reread the "Nos case." It's not a case.
In post 1085, Gosrir Elmer Odels wrote:@teacher: Add your Perf read to the list of things I'd like to hear more about. Early on you had Performer as a townread. You said in 500 you didn't like the wagon on him. What happened?
@BBT: I'm kind of in the middle of something, but here's something: (no particular order within lines.)
WM, NM, TC, BV, Perf. The last two are kind of the same flavour, namely that they're just very enthusiastically making bad (not scummy bad, just bad) posts. BV more so than Perf. BV's actually got worse this day, even though you'd expect the opposite to happen if he'd had scumbuddies to teach him a few things during the night.
(Perf, kinda), BBT, Garmr. I'd have you as null, but some of the people I somewhat trust in this game seem to townread you.
Nos, Aristo. I used to like Nos's 488, but it didn't actually lead anywhere. If he's really about townhunting, he should be more transparent about his townreads. Garmr does have some points about him, he has been coasting, but I'm not sure how scummy that is. For Aristo I have this crackpot theory that Gus tried to make his slut look townier by trying to make his replace out seem to come from out of frustration in 873. I'm not sure about that. Aristo himself hasn't done much, though.
teacher, Tommy. Teacher's Gus vote seemed opportunistic, & his later posts kept giving me this trying-to-guess-what-the-others-want-to-hear feel. I want to see what happens to his readlist after some cross-questions. I didn't like Tommy's catch-up post, the quote-wall from the very start of the game felt like a gimmick to look town, & it had little to offer in terms of content. (BTW, for some reason I remembered he'd been universally townread at the time, but actually only Invis townread him.) He hasn't really been better since then. In 1040 he seems to pretend he pushed Nos D1, I guess.
In post 1112, Gosrir Elmer Odels wrote:@Nos: The burden of proof is on your shoulders: Where do you have a townread that was presented in a persuasive way? You might be townhunting, but if so, then not in a way in which town could actually benefit from it.
@Garmr: Could you tell me about your read on Tommy? Why are you townreading him?
Should I address Perf? He seems to have thought Aristo was laughing at the idea that Gus was trying to make his replace out look town (as opposed to the typo I made.) He also seems to think that Gus replaced out b/c of being a toddler allegedly (alleged by Perf), not b/c he had RL issues, even though it's been pretty well established. (The first point is interesting, I guess. I'll ISO him during the weekend b/c I don't have time to do that earlier.)
this thought process on nos seems genuine. GEO also seems like he's sorting a good bit. GEO is more than likely town. I'd just like to know what put the nail in the coffin for voting NOS over voting teacher? @GEO.
@Garmr hopefully i dont seem hypocritical about making wall posts while i do a catch up. I hope you can understand why im mkaing all the quotes here and objected to others. Not trying to be a jerk lol.
In post 1231, Tchill13 wrote:@Garmr hopefully i dont seem hypocritical about making wall posts while i do a catch up. I hope you can understand why im mkaing all the quotes here and objected to others. Not trying to be a jerk lol.
That's fine lol I'm making a post showing the link between you and performer at the moment.
In post 559, Gustavo wrote:Using my opinion on game speed isn't bad logic, it is straight up stupidity as my opinion is completely unrelated to my alignment.
are you completely aware of the game we're playing my dude?
In post 551, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:I feel like you're not reading the game properly when I see comments like this. Gus has fully defended his position as being based on content, as has Wave. Nos refused to leave the wagon despite claiming that Peformer isn't even his top scum read.
I didn't refuse...it's not like anyone asked me to and I said "nah fam"
I'm not satisfied with what this wagon has gotten so far and quite frankly I don't even think it'll give much more
VOTE: GEO <-- not my top scumread either if you were wondering.
In post 725, Nosferatu wrote:I'm not trying to approach this game from a readlist perspective like I usually do, but I'll do it once to give perspective
Normally I start from the middle and branch out but I wanted to start from the bottom and grow up instead, so the bottom rung isn't necessarily just the scummiest of the earth to me, but instead they're people that haven't shown themselves as town, since the number of things I'm juggling at once right now sorta necessitates townhunting in most of my games.
pedit: see i knew you would ask that so ^^^
BlueBloodedToffee wrote:Then you lie. Or withhold information.
Unless you're scum, then you can just spout some shit that you think will look town.
you have a point, but if there enough votes on a slot that they're in danger of getting lolhammered, the knowledge that there is a pressure vote is not exactly gamebreaking. I also didn't ask him any questions and he's aware I stuck on performer's wagon just because I could, so in this context it didn't really matter.
I don't see the progression on performer here and i'd like to know how he went from "he can go" to closer to the top of players "that have shown themselves to be town"
In post 1231, Tchill13 wrote:@Garmr hopefully i dont seem hypocritical about making wall posts while i do a catch up. I hope you can understand why im mkaing all the quotes here and objected to others. Not trying to be a jerk lol.
That's fine lol I'm making a post showing the link between you and performer at the moment.
im very ok with performer being the lynch atm fyi.
Nos posted a trio of invis, GEO, performer that "could go". Nos voted GEO and said "not my top scumread btw". Nos wasn't on the invis wagon. Wouldn't that lead ppl to believe that Performer was his biggest SR? Performer is closer to the top of that "shown themselves to be town" list though?
In post 1230, Tchill13 wrote:
that's why i asked. Of cousre its easy to come up with a decent excuse there.
Why are you hung up on that? Are you convinced that makes him scum?
I'm not hung up on it - it's just one part of my case on Tommy. It is however an imporant part at a pivotal moment in the game.
Why does he vote Invis over BV? It's such a critical (opportunistic?) time to vote and force a claim on somebody he has shown 0 interest in. That doesn't set off a red flag for you?
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
In post 1230, Tchill13 wrote:
that's why i asked. Of cousre its easy to come up with a decent excuse there.
Why are you hung up on that? Are you convinced that makes him scum?
I'm not hung up on it - it's just one part of my case on Tommy. It is however an imporant part at a pivotal moment in the game.
Why does he vote Invis over BV? It's such a critical (opportunistic?) time to vote and force a claim on somebody he has shown 0 interest in. That doesn't set off a red flag for you?
I'm not gonna answer for him so i'll hold off on that situation. Tommy made a very understandable push on Nos early D1. Tommy picked it right back up D2. Tommy put a player that (I was tunneling atm) was probably gonna get lynched regardless at L-1. Byron was the only legitimate option as a counter wagon at that point... I just think you're reading into it too much. Personally. HE seems to be sum hunting. Only red flag like i said was sometimes its easy for scum to ask a plethora of random questions to make it LOOK like scum hunting.
You shown you have reads why vote someone who hasn't posted since rvs and with out explanation?
idk you tell me? what POSSIBLE reason could i have for stating my reads then naked voting someone not on that list? could it be to form a new read? maybe to poke a lurker and see how they react?
im not making fun. the level of simple questions is pretty high in this game. idk what you expect me to say that you couldn't possibly figure out on your own.
letting ppl slide through d1 isn't how to play d1.
You naked voted him not because you scum read him but to get a reaction because his a lurker and/or you wanted a read. Seems pretty weak
In post 200, Tchill13 wrote:alright i'll be back in a bit i expect a full wagon on performer and those who don't participate are his scum buddies lol.
This seems like a bit of scum theatre as you want to form a wagon on someone you don't even scum read. Also you might of thought this would look good if performer flips. It would be bus.
In post 269, Lefty wrote:You’re also still arguing from the logic standpoint, which I think is not very difficult to do as scum. You’re countering my points by pointing at actions that are supposed to be Townie. I’m much more concerned about lynching who I think is scum than seeing who is acting the most Town.
i'm a logical person, what can I say. If you are interested in lynching scum you have to A. find them and B. convince others to do that.
You haven't done either of those things yet. I get you think i am scum, but your reasons for scum reading me aren't very good. You just don't like my playstyle which is fine, I am not really interested in arguing with you about your reasons, but i will push you to do part 2 of the job of a townie. You already said you are fine sitting back which is lazy or it's scum trying to avoid actual scum hunting.
just so we are clear from this point where gus posted this im gonna be pretty suspicious here of ppl that would rather lynch gus than sort Performer/gosrir and/or get a few more in depth reads on others? poking gus is fine but if he's lynched today scum will be on his wagon whether he is town or scum. since town rarely lynch scum d1 without a scum bus. Scum would more than likely jump on his wagon to keep other town from sorting.
Gus hasn't done anything scummy. A few RVS votes. Voted Performer. I fail to see how lynching Gus is the best option.
Performer/invis/gosrir/teacher are much better lynch options in no particular order.
Now performer becomes a scum read. Before you were only pushing him to get reads ect. You don't give no explanation why. Espically since he responded to you with
In post 211, Performer wrote:invis: The vote on bbt looked opportunistic. Just randomly sheeped byron at that point, later on pg 5 gets on the wagon on teacher. VOTE: invisibility
Gustavo: "I’m down for a fast day. I’m getting ready to play a game that ends in 36 hours so I need practice"
FOS: gustavo
This post just screams of suspicion. There's a difference between too fast & too slow.
How can you say this and think We can get something substantial in a fast day of 36 hours?
That's like saying "oh let's quickhammer." If you get lucky, you get a scum flip, if you get unlucky, you get a town pr flip.
Bbt: asked people to follow him in the wagon on lefty - see below for the read on lefty. Said byron was scum. I don't see why. He's null more than anything to me.
Lefty: posting gives me a town tone such as the ones where he asks questions, like the one posed to Nos about the point of his post. I also like his interrogation of bbt on pg 4.
Byron: not sure what to make of his interaction with bbt on pgs 5-6.
Garmr: rvs voted him because he was the last one to the game - hence I suspected him lurking. Shows up, omgus votes me & said I was buddying someone??, later puts up a sharp interrogation post to chill, on pg 4. His questioning and other posts, make me think he's got a sensible head on his shoulders in figuring out the game.
Chill: voted me & mentioned pushing a lurker... what in the? I’ve posted literally just yesterday when the game first began. What’s your definition of lurking?
I like his posting overall, he certainly is proactive like bbt. But other posts like not wanting to lynch specific people, posts like that make me wonder wth? If anything, I'll chalk it up to personal bias, as I have biases too on fm.
Teacher: voted bbt since he didn’t provide reasoning….but it was only pg 3 by that time.
---------------
That's what I got so far.
What in the post did you find scummy at the time since before you were only voting him because he was a lurker and wanted more info. Despite him actually turning out to be a lurker in this period of time (pretty much the first day) this was not the case so it comes off as odd that it's your major push with him.
So you pretty much left your vote on performer the whole day (your first vote was rvs and your second vote on teacher was a rvs breaker until it came time to lynch invis. Also despite you saying why don't you lynch performer you never actually made a case as to why he was scum earlier. Which makes me think you wanted town cred for his lynch.
You were quite happy jumping off him to be on the same wagon as him. Effectively being the one to tip the wagons against invisibility's while killing the chances of performer being lynched that day despite being your scum read.
Then instead of pushing performer and voting him he doesn't talk about him all day and we get this.
In post 1021, Performer wrote:Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.
Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today. VOTE: nosferatu
Holy shit straight after each other and no questioning your former scum reads intent the guy you spent the whole day 1 pushing.
Then
In post 1083, Performer wrote:Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.
I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.
In post 906, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:No surprise that your two choices are town. I made the Performer wagon a no-go because he made it clear to me he was town. And before he did that people were trying to lynch him based purely on lurking whilst stating awful reasons to try and justify it.
I think only TChill said he was trying to gain information/force involvement. Gus, Nos and Wave (?) all tried to justify their position on the wagon as if Performer (with 5 posts) was the scummiest scummer to ever scum. That's not happening whilst I'm around.
Am I scum based purely on a pre-flip association with Performer or is there more?
Also, why is Performer scum?
im catching up rn. BBT and PErformer are probably the same alignment.
so performer and garmr only voted each other or they BOTH voted invis d1. Well that seems odd because why would you vote with your only other read that you were compelled to vote d1? Why only vote 2 players d1? Then you sit on that vote with the other guy for most of d1...
He keeps trying to link performer alignment up with other people. Which makes me think he knows performer is scum and his trying to line up a lynch.
Garmr, can you review my Tommy post please and give me your thoughts?
I feel like town are just pulling in so many different directions. It's real hard to find a consensus here as people just keep pushing their own reads.
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
I feel like town are just pulling in so many different directions. It's real hard to find a consensus here as people just keep pushing their own reads.
Also, what is NM doing? Worst play I’ve ever seen.
I can't remember the last N_M post that wasn't bland, unimaginative and lame. Some shitposters are at least somewhat funny. You are the epitomy of the type of poster that nobody would miss if you were to suddenly disappear. You never add anything of value.
I'm guessing you haven't read the game and probably never will? Why even sign up to play?
decent case. You're wrong, but its decent and i can see the connections. I hopped on every wagon d1 im pretty sure. I definitely pushed invis as hard as i pushed performer.
I feel that you're making the case ik he's scum because maybe you know hes scum? lol. Maybe you really do believe the connections. I'd be hesitant to insta lynch you right after performer though since at this point your digging your own grave after my flip IF in fact performer is your scum bussy, which is a bad plan and highly unlikely.
I's looking more like Nos/Performer. Of course i'll have more info after i iso performer. I should have went to bed an hour ago lol.
In post 661, Performer wrote:Nosferatu - has changed from sr to tr for me because he’s trying to talk to gustavo, such as on pg 24. Their interaction causes me to think nos is trying to lessen the cluttering in the thread. Scum would want to cause chaos, speed up a day to lessen information gleaned, and/or stall a day for strategic reason. I don’t get that tone from nos in the nos & gus interaction.
I was not understanding the case on teacher so I did an ISO on him .
@teacher: based on your ISO, you've been solid on gust being scum for awhile, since 213. Any changes on that read?
Also, who are your other sr and why?
In post 948, Performer wrote:Nos why did you sr garmr? Garm , I think nos is town - my read on him hasn't changed since I last posted about him.
The posts on pg 38 are alarming. Hmm.
In post 1018, Performer wrote:"I don't really ask questions for the purpose of forming reads. Pretty rarely at least."
I can back that up regarding nos when he's town. Iirc, we played at least 1 mini normal years ago where as town, he played with a minimalist style with minimal questioning.
@bbt regarding the byron v bbt, I felt like I was the only person thinking byron was town and you were possibly....scummy.....
The issue is I still have you at null, which is not that surprising because you have been pushing for my tr deaths. First asking people to get on lefty, later voting gustavo slot, , saying gustavo slot is still scummy on d2, and now voting byron.
However, I'm well aware one of my liabilities is that I strongly dislike pushing for my idols' deaths & I have problems reading them , which is why I've been seeking feedback from others. If you & I make it to mylo or lylo somehow, that is one of my worst nightmares because I will be a big liability.
Also, I completely expected you to die on n1 but you are alive, so I have been growing paranoid as to why you're alive. When we played in a mini normal a couple years ago, you died immediately on n1, and we were both town. So, I am going to lose my mind .
Also @chill, I forgot about your question, sorry about that. From the notes I made yesterday , I think you, nos, lefty, byron, and tommy (slight tr) were on my tr side. I moved garm to null because of his push on nos, which has been interesting to say the least.
I need to reread a few of the wall posts on this page & parse through them .
In post 1021, Performer wrote:Ok so I did some more rereading, nos has wave & garm as his sr. I asked nos why, he said he just doesn't tr garm, and that's all he said . Well , that's fishy.
Along with garm casing & voting nos, nos voted wave instead.
The combination of events has made me change my tr -> null -> sr for nos. It looks like nos is trying to vote the people with least resistance & when I analyzed my wagon & garm pushed a case against nos, nos reacted bizarre, which didn't look like it came from town.
Also, I just checked votecounts & if my counts were correct, teacher & nos are at 2 votes apiece for leading wagons. We need 7 for lynch today. VOTE: nosferatu
In post 1083, Performer wrote:Will be able to put in more in-depth notes when I get on a computer after work.
I think by this point , a nos/garm/tommy/gosrir flip would help considerably. If nos/garm flip, it should ascertain alignment of the other. Same goes for tommy/gosrir, after reading tommy's ISO. I saw he wanted nos and teacher lynched, and asked why garm was scum.
I don't see how nos and garm are same sided, and tommy and gosrir don't seem same sided either based on my ISO of tommy.
VOTE: garm
VOTE: nos
im not voting performer here. Nos's iso shows more scum motivation imo than performers iso as far as comparing iso ON THEIR OWN regardless to connections with others.
I really, really liked the fact that performer hard defended nos and showed good progression to the nos SR.
I didn't like the fact that he quickly voted garmr afterwards.
ik this is gonna "line up" with garmrs perf/tchill case. I really don't care.
In post 449, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:The intention is clearly there and now I have kicked up a fuss about it nobody will be leaving is easily/quietly.
I have forced people on the wagon to defend their position on it. They had the chance to get off - and didn't take it. Now they're committed.
yeah ok but there was no reason to do this. People don't get lynched on page 18.
Don't they? Fuck it you're scum to me now.
And then this. And all of a sudden Nos is super scum. You have made a total of 2 posts relating to Nos - I don't understand the conviction in this read. Can you explain why that statement from Nos was so scummy?
In post 492, Performer wrote:Yeah, of the 4 on my wagon, disliking Nos the most. Added to sr . Feels like he's sliding by and just keeping his read there on me.
gonna do something about it?
Oh look Nos still literally providing nothing. I know that's rich coming from me but active lurking is 100% worse than not posting at all. The fact people are town reading this active lurking genuinely concerns me.
Then this - which seems slightly unfair on Nos given that the second post is clearly providing content.
Then at the end of this post you vote Nos - after reviewing your reasoning I fail to see how your Nos scum read is so strong. In fact, that troubles me that this is still your strongest scum read in the entire game given this is your reasoning. Your reasoning for BV!scum seem much stronger and yet you never entertain it.
In post 704, Tommy Egan wrote:What don't you get about the nos vote? I have my reasons more than once in my posts
From this point on, you just make posts like this (which you only did once on D1) as if to avoid having to address your scum read. I see now why you won't reiterate your points - it's a super weak read and yet your strongest in the game.
So I think my point about your push on Nos being weak on D1 was correct, you made a total of 4 posts maximum related to him (and they were contained in walls). You didn't push Nos very hard at all and yet entered D2 like Nos was confirmed scum.
After reviewing this, Tommy's reads are super weak. I don't understand how you think you pushed Nos so hard and yet you spent the majority of D1 actually pushing on BV. And then somehow you end up on the Invis wagon.
VOTE: Tommy
This is the lynch for Today.
I agree that his point on nos's 452 was weaker than I remembered and I think his push tchill was better than nos because some of his tchill points in 684 mirror mine. He doesn't ring scum to me through. I may have some bias on his slot because he resonated with me but I can see how he could come to those conclusions because I came to similar ones as well and I'm town.
It's not the conclusions I have a problem with Garmr - it's the severity of the reads and the reasoning behind them.
I don't get why he doesn't push or vote BV.
I don't understand how Nos is his biggest scum read given his reasoning (especially compared to his reasoning for BV)
I don't understand how or why he jumped on the Invis wagon to force a claim.
You don't have any problems with this?
Meta this. Meta that. Meta Everything. Meta is not a good scum-hunting tool. PEOPLE CAN MANIPULATE THEIR META. Stop it. Stop. It. Now.
In post 1248, BlueBloodedToffee wrote:It's not the conclusions I have a problem with Garmr - it's the severity of the reads and the reasoning behind them.
I don't get why he doesn't push or vote BV.
I don't understand how Nos is his biggest scum read given his reasoning (especially compared to his reasoning for BV)
I don't understand how or why he jumped on the Invis wagon to force a claim.
You don't have any problems with this?
I can't answer any of these with certainty but the first one doesn't worry me. He said that bv was a info lynch and invis lynch was inevitable. The only one that concerns me is the nos>tchill.
