SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[Shoshin]

VOTE: Sheperd

[Commander Shepard]

by PoE and in-thread facts/theory alongside my personal interactions with people,

Shoshin/PP/DV/Nahdia

make the most sense as scum right now.

PP

is

being defeatist.

Shoshin

and

DV

are doing this weird soft-distancing from him, alongside not producing any other content.

I can't think all 3 of these people are scum being openly useless. Otherwise that'd just be funny and almost

"too good"

for town.

1, maybe 2 - and god forbid 3 of

Sho/PP/DV/Nah

are town, i doubt 18p would have a 4 person scumteam, and im actually open to hearing

Pun's

thinking on

MNWW

, i dont want to say anything else rn

other than another replacement will probably feel like a setback for town X_X

Shoshin yes,
PP maybe, but only with Shoshin, Shoshin’s Unvote is really bad,
Where the fuck is DV
And hell to the no.

Petit Oh yay, scum is voting me despite saying Maria is more likely scum than me. Keep being obvious scum Shoshin, see how well that works out for you.

[Taly]

Are there any other claims like IC or innos that I need to be aware of?

Welcome to early-claim hell, how the fuck may I help you?

Mobile posting, so I can't provide full details now, but:

I am Cheetory6, and I have a Conditional Bulletproof.
The main condition is me being the most popular player.

This isn't quite as broken as it sounds because there IS a second condition, but for obvious reasons, that condition is best left unclaimed so that the pun don't know when I can/cannot be shot.

I need vax higher than fa

I need fa higher than vax

I've decided that I am enough of a negatively utility at this point that I'm going to claim.

I'm Shadoweh. Conditional Ascetic Townie with the passive that no actions from someone ranked lower than me can affect me, including night kills. This is why I suspected Punreader's BP claim.

Since I'm likely to be ranked low...claiming seemed to be beneficial.

I have content to respond to, which I will in circa 12 hours.
DO NOT END THE DAY BEFORE I CAN EXPLAIN WHY I AM DOING THIS AND GIVE RESPONSES TO THE RESPONSES TO MY READS.

Claim: Conditional Bulletproof/Conditional Vigilante; the conditions are inverses.

I actually lied.
I DO have a conditional bulletproof, but it only protects me from those who are ranked HIGHER; I was aiming for an ungated Vig, with the illusion of being bp.

To explain, I can kill people ranked lower than I am, but they can kill me; I can't kill people ranked higher than me, but they can't kill me.

This is why PenguinPower is literally a punclaim.

Details for everything in 12 hours.

Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (10)
Dunnstral (9)
ActionDan/Nahdia (8)
Shoshin (7)
MariaR (6)
Espeonage (6)
the worst (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
DeasVail (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
NicoRobin (3)
ReubenWasFine/Lovebird (2)
Srceenplay (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
PenguinPower (0)
Pine/TwoInAMillion (0)

I shot Pine.

Taly I'm pretty confident on Vax being town can you pick someone else?

I invested him.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

1) MariaR/Chara is intentional.
2) Yes, rankings are static. No more rankings.

Votecount 2.4

Espeonage

(6): DeasVail, Fire Assassin, the worst, Taly, PenguinPower, Shoshin

Fire Assassin

(1): Dunnstral

Not Voting

(8): Punreader, MariaR/Chara, Espeonage, Nahdia, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller, TehBrawlGuy

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)

I have no reason to talk about it. Chara and me know full well what it is.

I am a ranking cop. (With a certain amount of shots I won’t disclose)
Based on my rank the results I get are dependent on.

If I rank higher than the person I am checking I will get the results I should get if I was a normal cop
For example I check a Town night one and I rank higher than them then I will get “not mafia”
If I am lower I get the opposite of what I should get
In same example I would get “Mafia”

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

Actually,

Dunn

wouldn't have been able to vig/protect/vanillize anyone but

Espe

? If I'm reading this correctly?

The balancing tool is that either me or dunn becomes vanilla. It doesn't need another one.

Also, EP flavour, in your best paraphrasing, and go.

Whoever won the bet got to choose to vig, protect, or vanillaise the other.

he said it was possible but has elaborated since

Did this ability HAVE to be used N1?

@Dunn/Espe

Yes

Dunn, given your vote, I'm assuming you believe Maria over Fire, why?

For the reasons I gave earlier as to why Fire's claim was scummy

I unvoted him after he changes his claim

The NK didn't happen last night.

I protected Espeonage from night kills

I could only target espe and it had to be used night 1

You know what, I've been thinking about it, and I cannot see a reason not to claim my role at this point.

I am Psyche, the message facilitator. During the night phase, I choose two people to get prompts to send a short message to each other along with the scores that they gave each other. Or, at least I'm pretty sure it's to each other, I'm still awaiting definite clarification on that aspect.

Both the people chosen by Screenplay last night are still alive, and I would have probably gone with one who was more likely to be voted out and one who was unlikely to be voted out, but that's just me.

10. Srceenplay
10. Taly
10. TheBrawlGuy
9. Chara
8. Shoshin
7. The Worst
6. vaxkiller
6. Dunnstral
5. Fire Assassin
5. Nahdia
4. pine
4. pun reader
3. lovebird
2. nico
1. mariar
0. deasvail
0. espe
0. PP

punreader probably would have been moved down a little, Fire Assassin, based on today, also would move down. Maybe Dunn, too, MariaR I'd probably put around where Nahdia is and it would mostly be because that's about as town as I'd ever put MariaR.

Espeonage would move up just based on Fire Assassin's claims.

I would rank deasvail a little higher, but only because I don't remember reading anything by them, probably the 1 point slot.

Also, I am wondering whether I should say who spoke to each other last night, what do you think, ducky?

hold on what?

if you have spicy night action info share it!!!

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

confirming this

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

confirming this

I probably forgot something.

[Commander Shepard]

Apparently no one has heard of armor? Or like not spontaneously claiming?

I agree holy hell that’s a lot of claims.

Taly, what do you make of Shoshin’s unvote?

[Commander Shepard]

for what it's worth, i don't care about lynch speed. it often has a lot more to do with the game environment as a whole than the alignment of the player being wagoned.

this is one of those games where i feel like i should be sheeping other people, because my reads are so different from my townreads'.

If the game is askew then this would make sense.

Talk about this a bit more please Chara.

[Commander Shepard]

I've got to be honest about the fact that I'm feeling pretty disengaged with the game at the moment. It's a weird feeling of there being too much going on and also too little going on at the same time.

Nonetheless, this is my fault and I will work on this!

I'm a bit torn on PenguinPower because of the defeatist attitude of a lot of his posting, which would make me question my scumread. But what I keep coming back to is this:

- He is obviously still posting and at least somewhat engaged with the game. I don't think this is apathetic town.
- And if PP is not apathetic town, then why the obstructive posting?

I mean, the interaction with Shoshin is probably the most town thing I've seen from him, and it's not exactly super alignment relevant.

PP's play just seems to me, to fit much better with scum who doesn't like scum that much. Started off on the wrong foot and has just sort of been floating along since then, kind of expecting to be lynched at some point, but sort of indifferent to whether that happens or not.

But I'm not sure and I could definitely see myself switching to Nahdia in the heat of a MEOW MEOW MEOW!

This reads like scum tapping on the gas on the bus timidly asking themselves if they wanna do this and are looking for exits off the bus highway.

[Commander Shepard]

On second thought, I don't want another replacement to muddy the waters here.
VOTE: Nahdia

Speaking as a player who specializes in turning punread town slots into strong townreads.

I do.

Especially when the Nahdia wagon reeks of being a pun counterwagon to the PenguinPower wagon.

Like punreader probably has no reaper influence. Stopping here for the moment will pick up later.

[Taly]

I'm highly suspect of

Fire

at this point

Espe/Vax/Dunn

are cleared to me, and based off roles. In the same breath, I feel

Maria

is cleared too, but it seems like nobody thinks so.

I will 1v1 wallpost against anyone who wants to come for

TW's

life atm.

Pun

... I want to say is town...

PP

... I'm wondering if he actually is town...

Taly, what do you make of Shoshin’s unvote?

I'm going to need to reread the past few pages.

D: With you replacing in, I don't think my vote/reasoning is valid atm. X_X...

And I don't want to lynch or vote cop claims because that can be use to spew info. for town... (

Fire

)

But I don't like the

PP

wagon?

I feel a little stuck. x-x

[Shoshin]

Taly, can you explain how Esp/Vax/Dunn are clear via roles?

[Taly]

I feel like I've said this multiple times.

Maria

inno'ed

Vax

. I townread her. I believe her. I believe

Vax

.

Fire

screwed around with a misleading guilty on

Espe

. I townread

Espe

. I believe

Espe

.

Dunn

claimed a protect on

Espe

N1 over their ranking-bound roles. I townread them both. I believe their townbloc.

Any question or doubtcast to

Espe/Vax/Dun

being cleared right now is a complete can of worms that I'm not willing to open when there's very few flips right now and I have scumreads.

[Shoshin]

Why do you townread Maria?

[Taly]

Why do you scumread

Maria

?

[Shoshin]

Her reads on D1 felt fake. Her posts feel more defensive than scumhunting oriented. On D1, she said she was openly lying about reads/rankings in a way that makes me think she's trying to avoid commiting to any positions, a pretty typical scum pattern. She quickly jumped onto Nahdia's reasoning to end the day without wanting to scumhunt. And the way she voted Fire today after he claimed didn't square with the way she was thinking on D1 about the game's roles/setup (i.e. on D1 she's going on about how the scum might have roles to screw with our rankings, which is a really speculative position, but then when Fire claims, she's suddenly can't speculate about multiple cops?), so to me it was more of scum reacting the way they prepared to react to another cop claim rather than a townie who gave Fire's claim some deeper thought. And I haven't seen anything townie in her posts.

[Shoshin]

So why do you townread her?

[Shoshin]

Claim doesn't =ali
look fhr the way they claimed that's what's important not the claim itself.
Also I hope I'm not the only one openly lying about rankings here

Maria on D1. Claims aren't AI... and she's speculating about crazy setup stuff with vote swappers and openly lying about it...

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

But then Fire claims and he's scum because there can't be two cops? I thought claims weren't AI... I thought Maria was open to crazy setup stuff... but nah, guess not.

It doesn't square.

[Taly]

1)

Because why would

Maria

-scum fakeclaim an innocent on

Vax

of all people, one of the most suspected people of the game?

2)

Because why would

Maria

-scum merge with

Chara

of all people, one of the most townread people of the game?

3)

Because why would

Maria

-scum claim cop at all, or challenge at a cop claim like

Fire's

?

4)

Because why would

Maria

-scum openly be OK with lying about reads D1 since it'd mean her scumself wouldn't have accurate thread info. on town's mindset?

5)

Because why would

Maria

-scum counter a

PP

-town wagon, or a

PP

-scum wagon with her own scumread-

Nahdia

wagon??

[Shoshin]

1)

Because why would

Maria

-scum fakeclaim an innocent on

Vax

of all people, one of the most suspected people of the game?

2)

Because why would

Maria

-scum merge with

Chara

of all people, one of the most townread people of the game?

3)

Because why would

Maria

-scum claim cop at all, or challenge at a cop claim like

Fire's

?

4)

Because why would

Maria

-scum openly be OK with lying about reads D1 since it'd mean her scumself wouldn't have accurate thread info. on town's mindset?

5)

Because why would

Maria

-scum counter a

PP

-town wagon, or a

PP

-scum wagon with her own scumread-

Nahdia

wagon??

There's lots of plausible scum narratives to answer those questions.

1) If Vax is town, Maria could be buddying. If Vax is scum, Maria could be protecting a teammate.
2) I don't really understand the merge thing or what happened there... if Maria chose to merge with Chara, she could be buddying Chara... and besides, the question you should ask is, how is Maria both a cop and a merger?
3) To push a mislynch on Fire. To create chaos. To make you think she's town based on role. There's plenty of games where scum claim or counterclaim cop.
4) Scum openly lie about reads on D1 so that they're immune from suspicion. I don't understand what you mean by "accurate thread info" when scum's goal isn't to help town, it's to hurt town. It hurts town when you openly lie about reads so that nobody can form accurate reads about you.
5) If both PP and Nahdia are town, she could be setting up a mislynch on Nahdia based on PP's flip. If PP's scum and Nahdia's town, she could be redirecting towards a mislynch while protecting her teammate. If PP's town and Nahdia's scum, she could be looking for town credit while also believing that PP's going to get lynched, not Nahdia.

I've seen scum do everything that Maria's doing. None of it is very indicative of alignment either way.

[Shoshin]

Taly, answer the flipside of your question: Why would Maria-town be okay with lying about reads on D1 since it'd mean her townself wouldn't have accurate thread info. on town's mindset? Or to put it another way, who do you think cares more about accurate thread info, town or scum?

[Fire Assassin]

But then Fire claims and he's scum because there can't be two cops? I thought claims weren't AI... I thought Maria was open to crazy setup stuff... but nah, guess not.

It doesn't square.

She is also lying about her claim.

[Fire Assassin]

I'm highly suspect of Fire at this point

Interesting change of pace.
In ten pages you will be townreading me

[Commander Shepard]

I'm highly suspect of

Fire

at this point

Espe/Vax/Dunn

are cleared to me, and based off roles. In the same breath, I feel

Maria

is cleared too, but it seems like nobody thinks so.

I will 1v1 wallpost against anyone who wants to come for

TW's

life atm.

Pun

... I want to say is town...

PP

... I'm wondering if he actually is town...

Taly, what do you make of Shoshin’s unvote?

I'm going to need to reread the past few pages.

D: With you replacing in, I don't think my vote/reasoning is valid atm. X_X...

And I don't want to lynch or vote cop claims because that can be use to spew info. for town... (

Fire

)

But I don't like the

PP

wagon?

I feel a little stuck. x-x

Who do you think could be scum with Fire then?

[Commander Shepard]

Are there any other claims like IC or innos that I need to be aware of?

Welcome to early-claim hell, how the fuck may I help you?

Mobile posting, so I can't provide full details now, but:

I am Cheetory6, and I have a Conditional Bulletproof.
The main condition is me being the most popular player.

This isn't quite as broken as it sounds because there IS a second condition, but for obvious reasons, that condition is best left unclaimed so that the pun don't know when I can/cannot be shot.

I need vax higher than fa

I need fa higher than vax

I've decided that I am enough of a negatively utility at this point that I'm going to claim.

I'm Shadoweh. Conditional Ascetic Townie with the passive that no actions from someone ranked lower than me can affect me, including night kills. This is why I suspected Punreader's BP claim.

Since I'm likely to be ranked low...claiming seemed to be beneficial.

I have content to respond to, which I will in circa 12 hours.
DO NOT END THE DAY BEFORE I CAN EXPLAIN WHY I AM DOING THIS AND GIVE RESPONSES TO THE RESPONSES TO MY READS.

Claim: Conditional Bulletproof/Conditional Vigilante; the conditions are inverses.

I actually lied.
I DO have a conditional bulletproof, but it only protects me from those who are ranked HIGHER; I was aiming for an ungated Vig, with the illusion of being bp.

To explain, I can kill people ranked lower than I am, but they can kill me; I can't kill people ranked higher than me, but they can't kill me.

This is why PenguinPower is literally a punclaim.

Details for everything in 12 hours.

Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (10)
Dunnstral (9)
ActionDan/Nahdia (8)
Shoshin (7)
MariaR (6)
Espeonage (6)
the worst (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
DeasVail (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
NicoRobin (3)
ReubenWasFine/Lovebird (2)
Srceenplay (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
PenguinPower (0)
Pine/TwoInAMillion (0)

I shot Pine.

Taly I'm pretty confident on Vax being town can you pick someone else?

I invested him.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

1) MariaR/Chara is intentional.
2) Yes, rankings are static. No more rankings.

Votecount 2.4

Espeonage

(6): DeasVail, Fire Assassin, the worst, Taly, PenguinPower, Shoshin

Fire Assassin

(1): Dunnstral

Not Voting

(8): Punreader, MariaR/Chara, Espeonage, Nahdia, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller, TehBrawlGuy

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)

I have no reason to talk about it. Chara and me know full well what it is.

I am a ranking cop. (With a certain amount of shots I won’t disclose)
Based on my rank the results I get are dependent on.

If I rank higher than the person I am checking I will get the results I should get if I was a normal cop
For example I check a Town night one and I rank higher than them then I will get “not mafia”
If I am lower I get the opposite of what I should get
In same example I would get “Mafia”

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

Actually,

Dunn

wouldn't have been able to vig/protect/vanillize anyone but

Espe

? If I'm reading this correctly?

The balancing tool is that either me or dunn becomes vanilla. It doesn't need another one.

Also, EP flavour, in your best paraphrasing, and go.

Whoever won the bet got to choose to vig, protect, or vanillaise the other.

he said it was possible but has elaborated since

Did this ability HAVE to be used N1?

@Dunn/Espe

Yes

Dunn, given your vote, I'm assuming you believe Maria over Fire, why?

For the reasons I gave earlier as to why Fire's claim was scummy

I unvoted him after he changes his claim

The NK didn't happen last night.

I protected Espeonage from night kills

I could only target espe and it had to be used night 1

You know what, I've been thinking about it, and I cannot see a reason not to claim my role at this point.

I am Psyche, the message facilitator. During the night phase, I choose two people to get prompts to send a short message to each other along with the scores that they gave each other. Or, at least I'm pretty sure it's to each other, I'm still awaiting definite clarification on that aspect.

Both the people chosen by Screenplay last night are still alive, and I would have probably gone with one who was more likely to be voted out and one who was unlikely to be voted out, but that's just me.

10. Srceenplay
10. Taly
10. TheBrawlGuy
9. Chara
8. Shoshin
7. The Worst
6. vaxkiller
6. Dunnstral
5. Fire Assassin
5. Nahdia
4. pine
4. pun reader
3. lovebird
2. nico
1. mariar
0. deasvail
0. espe
0. PP

punreader probably would have been moved down a little, Fire Assassin, based on today, also would move down. Maybe Dunn, too, MariaR I'd probably put around where Nahdia is and it would mostly be because that's about as town as I'd ever put MariaR.

Espeonage would move up just based on Fire Assassin's claims.

I would rank deasvail a little higher, but only because I don't remember reading anything by them, probably the 1 point slot.

Also, I am wondering whether I should say who spoke to each other last night, what do you think, ducky?

hold on what?

if you have spicy night action info share it!!!

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

confirming this

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

confirming this

I probably forgot something.

If Punreader shot Pine then either
A) Punreader is scum
B) Punreader is town and scum also shot Pine
C) Scum shot someone else and they lived

And also why can’t there be two one shot cops in games are both claiming to be full blown cops?

[Commander Shepard]

Furthermore if you believe there can’t be two cops why is this not a 1v1 for both claimed cops?

[TehBrawlGuy]

Why are you so concerned with appearing town rather than just playing to a town wincon in order to just help town win?

Super Pro Tip, do town things, and town reads will follow, this much concern about being townread by people troubles me. It troubles me quite a bit.

I understand why you'd be concerned about this but you also need to understand where I'm coming from. Even the best townies get mislynched sometimes; being townread isn't always as simple as doing pro-town things, sometimes it's a matter of presenting your thought process in a way that allows others to understand how it comes from a town perspective.

I'm concerned about appearing town because I've been disengaged from the game to the point where there's an understandable amount of paranoia about my alignment, and when I started getting back into the game doing pro-town things, people still called me scum because I didn't have enough certainty and they didn't like my question-based approach.

My sense is that people are getting caught up in the way I'm presenting my thoughts instead of actually looking at what I'm saying, so I'm presenting basically the exact same information except in the form of cases. Like, I had said most of the stuff in my PP case before. There's not really much new stuff there. I just put the information together in a different way so that players who can't read between the lines see what I'm saying and are better able to understand my thought process.

does anyone here have experience with scum Shoshin? this post just ruined my scumread but it could be faked by someone with any sort of reasonable skill at doing so.

I just finished a game with scum!shoshin, and while it feels similar in terms of general content, the tone behind it is pretty different, especially in a post like this one. I also resonate a lot with the being disengaged but wanting to be townread. She was one of my townreads D1, and she still is. I think it's a huge mistake to go after her.

Also disagree with lynching Fire today. I agree he's the most likely Scum out of the 4 linked by roles, + Maria's claim, but if he's town, leaving him alive forces the mafia to either get copped or deal with him for us. We've got way less dangerous scummy lynches like PP. I'd also be ok with seeing Shepard swing. I had a weak town read on Nahdia but I really don't like how much Shepard has avoided commenting on PP directly and obviously I don't like his push on Shoshin. #chainsaw

I will 1v1 wallpost against anyone who wants to come for

TW's

life atm.

ftr, this is not helpful. if someone genuinely wants to scumread tw, stifling that discussion is not good

[Commander Shepard]

Protected from people below them, kills people ranked higher. That screams “self-aligned” to me.

I’m not opposed to leashing it.

This is the only thing close to a read I could find in Pine’s ISO.

I could buy scum and Punreader shooting this.

Especially if SK.

I also find that with everyone giving their reads list Fire’s claim seems possible and now need to look at Maria’s. Fire still gives me the heebie jeebies of reaper influence though.