SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[Commander Shepard]

Hi everyone.

The Normandy is leaving the dock and I am reading.

Anyone wanna be EDI and catch me up on details?

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Penguin Power
Don't even think this is scum.

I am just super lazy about this game right now.

It looks like this is L-1. Why would you put someone st L-1 when the game is actively seeking a replacement? And then not call it out? And on a “townread”?

FoS Fire Assassin

I think he was indoctrinated by the Reapers.

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Fire Assassin while I read.

[Commander Shepard]

Alright, picked a random town Penguin game to see if he scumhunts by looking at the players who townread him.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=75471

I skimmed his iso and he did no such thing. I'm assuming he just doesn't actually do that unless he pulls up some games proving otherwise. So he's scum here, and he's scum for exactly the reasons I've said.

This is a really good point.

What are some of your other reads?

[Commander Shepard]

I don't want the Penguin Power wagon

Looking at Shoshin’s posts I can see some of why PP is probably scum.

Can you explain why you don’t want the wagon? Or give me a gist of where your head is at that I can review tomorrow morning?

[Commander Shepard]

Hi Chara.

Why wouldn’t PP if town hunt everyone?

Why is your vote with a slash?

That’s weird.

[Commander Shepard]

Who do you think is scum on the PP wagon Nahdia?

[Commander Shepard]

Who do you think is scum on the PP wagon Nahdia?

Chara*

Wow sorry brain fail

[Commander Shepard]

Who do you think is scum on the PP wagon Nahdia?

my scumspects are Deas, Shoshin, Penguin.
though Shoshin is now outdated.
i'm going to bed now. don't worry if you're town, i'm town. :>

I am pretty sure you’re town and I know I am town :>

If your vote wasn’t stuck where would it be?

[Commander Shepard]

Hey it’s helping me to get a handle on what to read tomorrow.

Anything in particular I should focus on Chara?

[Commander Shepard]

side note: Maria may have been right about Nahdia. sorry Shepard. if you're town though, i promise i'll figure it out.
Shepard/Shoshin/Deas/?
forget how many players we have. night all.

pedit: i'm not the best person to ask. i only recently got engaged again. but i would say checking out Taly, Penguin, and Shoshin as priorities.

If you’re telling the truth there is nothing to apologize for.

The onus is on me as a replacement to prove I am town. :>

I am asking you to sort you. I am sure others will chime in with, “Hey Shepard look here”.

And lolz at me being scum. I would just quickhammer if I was. Wagon on me and another at L-1. Just be glad I am not the user Not_Mafia.

[Commander Shepard]

They givin you a problem Chara?

Hard for me to give someone a problem when all I ask is to spill guts so I have stuff to focus on.

That much data is easy for EDI, but I am only a human adult.

Pedit
Hi the worst
Do you two have any suggestions on what I should read?

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Shoshin

And pray tell why did you unvote PP?

Even in the worst case scenario where I read and hammer before you got to the thread in your opinion I would be hammering scum.

And don’t say the “quickhammer” possibility because your unvote came posts before.

[Commander Shepard]

i have 15 minutes left of my break, and i'm spending it here.

also people suck. why do they have to yell at me for doing my job. :<

Because most people work with idiots.

I mean look at me. I have to work with an intergalactic Council and they don’t let me do my shit when I have saved the universe, twice!

No instead I have to hunt for credits.

[Commander Shepard]

So like

I have an entire post that:

-

Unvotes

CS

, because holy shit, another person to assess means the previous case isn't necessarily valid at the moment, which is what I didn't want to happen.

-

States the reason why I wanted the

Nahdia

lynch with both my reasoning and other people's reasoning.

*cough* Maria *cough*

-

Votes

Fire

again because this is almost too bad to be town... but he has a cop claim...

-

Scream

"WTF"

at the fact that the ONLY person on the

PP

wagon that CARES about the

PP

wagon/lynch, is

Shoshin

.

-

Acknowledge and dislike the fact that

Pun

shits out a bunch of content only to disappear for the next 2-3 days

-

Hope

TBG

and

Espe

posts soon.

But I really just need to engage with people at the moment... particularly my townbloc and "read-sync"bloc.

(TW, Chara, Maria, Dun, Espe)

Vax

is arguably-cleared town too but I forgot he was in this game.

Oh no! Fire claims to be a cop! Quick people!

We must all read him as free of reaper influence! My armor if you can’t tell is powered by sarcasm.

Are there any other claims like IC or innos that I need to be aware of?

[Commander Shepard]

Welcome Commander Shepard.

VOTE: Fire Assassin

I hereby give you the name, Crewman. Welcome aboard the Normandy Crewman. (It means I townread you.)

[Commander Shepard]

I don't want the Penguin Power wagon

Looking at Shoshin’s posts I can see some of why PP is probably scum.

Can you explain why you don’t want the wagon? Or give me a gist of where your head is at that I can review tomorrow morning?

They feel like dumb angry town

I need a quantum entangler power source.

This needs a lot more explanation.

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Shoshin

And pray tell why did you unvote PP?

Even in the worst case scenario where I read and hammer before you got to the thread in your opinion I would be hammering scum.

And don’t say the “quickhammer” possibility because your unvote came posts before.

I unvoted because the game he linked shows him questioning townreads so I want to reevaluate without him getting lynched.

If you're scum, your goals entering the thread wouldn't have been hammering PP (that assumes PP is town), they would have been faking town-tells and securing a mislynch.

The first thing you did is try getting Chara to townread you through your "I didn't quickhammer" logic. Except we both know that you're better than that as scum and you wouldn't have hammered PP regardless of his alignment.

Your reasoning assumes PP is town. If you're both scum, you don't hammer in that situation because it doesn't matter if he's lynched or you're lynched, what matters is trying to change town's thinking towards mislynching.

And now you're voting town. Is there any reason I shouldn't scumread you for this?

1) As scum I know exactly when to sacrifice a slot and when not to. I am very good scum. The amount of people who accurately read me as scum is almost none and the amount who correctly read me as town is astronomically high. I don’t do things “for the reads”.

2) I don’t have a single game here as scum on this account. Pray tell where do you know me as better than this? I am pointing out a fact. PP’s alignment would still be whatever it is if scum!me (which doesn’t exist) hammers or not. You can’t say I would do it no matter what then say my reasoning assumes PP is town.

I generally assume the top wagon is scum on replace in and force people to prove it. Considering I am the alternative, if PP is town then this game has gone horribly askew.

3) I don’t think I am. PP providing a post where he does something as town doesn’t magically correspond to his alignment here and it shouldn’t invalidate any prior points you had. If it did you didn’t have any points or a case to begin with.

[Commander Shepard]

i have 15 minutes left of my break, and i'm spending it here.

also people suck. why do they have to yell at me for doing my job. :<

Because most people work with idiots.

I mean look at me. I have to work with an intergalactic Council and they don’t let me do my shit when I have saved the universe, twice!

No instead I have to hunt for credits.

To be fair, to my knowledge when you got to the bottom of all of it, you were messing around and shot at the ghost hologram thingey (I really was not paying attention by this point) because you thought it would be funny and doomed the entire universe. (I groaned when I realized this lead to the bad ending, but then proceeded to stick with it)

I don't trust the Fire cop claim, and I also do not like his reasoning for the vote onto Penguin Power.

Good points Crewman.

Fire + Shoshin + who else is on the Reaper ship?

Pedit yeah it seems pretty town.

[Commander Shepard]

Sheperd, you told me your main so that's how I know how you play.

And I don’t play like my main on this account hun. There’s reasons people alt hun.

You gonna address the rest of my response, or you gonna just ignore it?

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Shoshin

And pray tell why did you unvote PP?

Even in the worst case scenario where I read and hammer before you got to the thread in your opinion I would be hammering scum.

And don’t say the “quickhammer” possibility because your unvote came posts before.

I unvoted because the game he linked shows him questioning townreads so I want to reevaluate without him getting lynched.

If you're scum, your goals entering the thread wouldn't have been hammering PP (that assumes PP is town), they would have been faking town-tells and securing a mislynch.

The first thing you did is try getting Chara to townread you through your "I didn't quickhammer" logic. Except we both know that you're better than that as scum and you wouldn't have hammered PP regardless of his alignment.

Your reasoning assumes PP is town. If you're both scum, you don't hammer in that situation because it doesn't matter if he's lynched or you're lynched, what matters is trying to change town's thinking towards mislynching.

And now you're voting town. Is there any reason I shouldn't scumread you for this?

1) As scum I know exactly when to sacrifice a slot and when not to. I am very good scum. The amount of people who accurately read me as scum is almost none and the amount who correctly read me as town is astronomically high. I don’t do things “for the reads”.

2) I don’t have a single game here as scum on this account. Pray tell where do you know me as better than this? I am pointing out a fact. PP’s alignment would still be whatever it is if scum!me (which doesn’t exist) hammers or not. You can’t say I would do it no matter what then say my reasoning assumes PP is town.

I generally assume the top wagon is scum on replace in and force people to prove it. Considering I am the alternative, if PP is town then this game has gone horribly askew.

3) I don’t think I am. PP providing a post where he does something as town doesn’t magically correspond to his alignment here and it shouldn’t invalidate any prior points you had. If it did you didn’t have any points or a case to begin with.

So why would one post destroy your entire scumread on PP? And if it did why focus exclusively on someone to the exclusion of all others if your case is that bad?

[Commander Shepard]

Why is Chara town?

Because it is obviously town. Like they have town stamped in every post they’ve replied to me so far. It just like is town. I’d be skeptical of anyone thinking it’s scum.

[Commander Shepard]

Alright, fuck it. I'll make some cases on my scumreads. Because apparently that's what you guys need to see that I'm town.

I think Penguin's scum and this is why:

1) His posting on D1 is really shitty. He kinda lurks and complains about how he can't get reads and how his role is negative utility. Nothing town in his posting and he admits it when pushed for this very reason.

2) He votes Taly after it's already pretty obvious that Taly's town and that Taly is sort of leading the town. There's a pretty clear scum agenda to the push on Taly - stop Taly from unifying the town - but why push Taly if he's town? It's just a very bizarre push, one that I can't make sense of. And he keeps pushing Taly throughout the game (see below).

3) His degree of certainty that Pun was scum on D1 simply didn't square with the game. Like, PP kept saying that he had no problems dying or getting ranked 0 as long as we killed Pun too because that's how certain he was that Pun was scum. It's absurd because no townie would have been that confident about Pun. As a secondary matter, PP's self-destructive appeal is the sort of thing that almost always comes from scum, almost always. Townies just don't do that sort of thing, whereas scum often do it as a way to manipulate townies into thinking the player doesn't care about self-preservation even though that's actually their #1 priority.

4) PP's rankings are shit and his entire approach to scumhunting doesn't make any sense from a town perspective. He categorically scumhunts the people who are townreading him in 970 - "I'm not town enough to be read as town so the scum are probably among the people townreading me" - and that just doesn't make any sense from a town perspective. It's actually a very scum-aligned thought process because the scum would KNOW that anyone who townreads them is wrong. Also, what happened to the scumread on Pun? He's dropped any semblance of a push on Pun.

5) He continues casting subtle shade at Taly by questioning why Taly isn't voting him. Weird question from a town perspective. Townies are usually suspicious of people who vote them, not suspicious of people who don't. The question implies yet again that he thinks people shouldn't be townreading him, which is a thought process that makes more sense from a scum perspective who knows players shouldn't be townreading him.

6) He says I'm town all game until I stopped posting. Then he says I'm scum and votes me. What changed? I became a viable mislynch. The real problem with PP's vote is that he tries to justify it by reference to my town meta in 1352, when actually the only reason to vote me is just that I stopped posting because I was disengaged (not AI for me - I've been prodded in my town games on THIS site, including a game that PP read, yet haven't been prodded yet in this one).

The entire way PP's playing is very manipulative, it doesn't cohere with a townie's mindset, and his votes are opportunistic, determined by the sway of collective opinion. There's nothing townie anywhere to be found in his posting. Yes, it's an easy lynch, because he's probably scum.

Interesting indeed you’ve spent a good chunk on PP yet you say you have other scumreads who you conveniently never case so far and PP’s play doesn’t all of a sudden change to be not manipulative.

Tell me who else are your scumreads. Reevaluating my ass.

[Commander Shepard]

Why is Chara town?

Because it is obviously town. Like they have town stamped in every post they’ve replied to me so far. It just like is town. I’d be skeptical of anyone thinking it’s scum.

Can you explain it to me? It's fine if you think it's "obvious" but that doesn't mean it's beyond explanation.

Yes quite frankly it is and is a waste of time. No one scumreads it so far in my catchup and it is quite obviously town. Defending an obvious townread when unnecessary is a spam.

[Commander Shepard]

Yes, I'm reevaluating.

Off the top of my head, Maria was my top suspect on D1 and the first person I voted on D2. I've given reasons why I suspect her but haven't cased her yet. On D1, I didn't like things about Fire and I don't like his posting much today but I also don't like Esp's posting. I've had Taly as strong town throughout the game. I've been reading the worst as town. I read Screen as town and his replacement as town. I read Chara as town on D1 but I'm reevaluating based on the way she's reading Penguin. I'm paranoid about DV but also understanding of his disengagement.

That’s a lot of words to say “I have one other scumread that I am not talking about” which means you were exclusively focused on PP which proves my point. Shoshin is clearly a reaper.

And I don’t think spamming the thread discussing someone obviously town is good for the gamestate. I’d rather catchup.

[Commander Shepard]

by PoE and in-thread facts/theory alongside my personal interactions with people,

Shoshin/PP/DV/Nahdia

make the most sense as scum right now.

PP

is

being defeatist.

Shoshin

and

DV

are doing this weird soft-distancing from him, alongside not producing any other content.

I can't think all 3 of these people are scum being openly useless. Otherwise that'd just be funny and almost

"too good"

for town.

1, maybe 2 - and god forbid 3 of

Sho/PP/DV/Nah

are town, i doubt 18p would have a 4 person scumteam, and im actually open to hearing

Pun's

thinking on

MNWW

, i dont want to say anything else rn

other than another replacement will probably feel like a setback for town X_X

Shoshin yes,
PP maybe, but only with Shoshin, Shoshin’s Unvote is really bad,
Where the fuck is DV
And hell to the no.

Petit Oh yay, scum is voting me despite saying Maria is more likely scum than me. Keep being obvious scum Shoshin, see how well that works out for you.

[Commander Shepard]

Apparently no one has heard of armor? Or like not spontaneously claiming?

I agree holy hell that’s a lot of claims.

Taly, what do you make of Shoshin’s unvote?

[Commander Shepard]

for what it's worth, i don't care about lynch speed. it often has a lot more to do with the game environment as a whole than the alignment of the player being wagoned.

this is one of those games where i feel like i should be sheeping other people, because my reads are so different from my townreads'.

If the game is askew then this would make sense.

Talk about this a bit more please Chara.

[Commander Shepard]

I've got to be honest about the fact that I'm feeling pretty disengaged with the game at the moment. It's a weird feeling of there being too much going on and also too little going on at the same time.

Nonetheless, this is my fault and I will work on this!

I'm a bit torn on PenguinPower because of the defeatist attitude of a lot of his posting, which would make me question my scumread. But what I keep coming back to is this:

- He is obviously still posting and at least somewhat engaged with the game. I don't think this is apathetic town.
- And if PP is not apathetic town, then why the obstructive posting?

I mean, the interaction with Shoshin is probably the most town thing I've seen from him, and it's not exactly super alignment relevant.

PP's play just seems to me, to fit much better with scum who doesn't like scum that much. Started off on the wrong foot and has just sort of been floating along since then, kind of expecting to be lynched at some point, but sort of indifferent to whether that happens or not.

But I'm not sure and I could definitely see myself switching to Nahdia in the heat of a MEOW MEOW MEOW!

This reads like scum tapping on the gas on the bus timidly asking themselves if they wanna do this and are looking for exits off the bus highway.

[Commander Shepard]

On second thought, I don't want another replacement to muddy the waters here.
VOTE: Nahdia

Speaking as a player who specializes in turning punread town slots into strong townreads.

I do.

Especially when the Nahdia wagon reeks of being a pun counterwagon to the PenguinPower wagon.

Like punreader probably has no reaper influence. Stopping here for the moment will pick up later.

[Commander Shepard]

I'm highly suspect of

Fire

at this point

Espe/Vax/Dunn

are cleared to me, and based off roles. In the same breath, I feel

Maria

is cleared too, but it seems like nobody thinks so.

I will 1v1 wallpost against anyone who wants to come for

TW's

life atm.

Pun

... I want to say is town...

PP

... I'm wondering if he actually is town...

Taly, what do you make of Shoshin’s unvote?

I'm going to need to reread the past few pages.

D: With you replacing in, I don't think my vote/reasoning is valid atm. X_X...

And I don't want to lynch or vote cop claims because that can be use to spew info. for town... (

Fire

)

But I don't like the

PP

wagon?

I feel a little stuck. x-x

Who do you think could be scum with Fire then?

[Commander Shepard]

Are there any other claims like IC or innos that I need to be aware of?

Welcome to early-claim hell, how the fuck may I help you?

Mobile posting, so I can't provide full details now, but:

I am Cheetory6, and I have a Conditional Bulletproof.
The main condition is me being the most popular player.

This isn't quite as broken as it sounds because there IS a second condition, but for obvious reasons, that condition is best left unclaimed so that the pun don't know when I can/cannot be shot.

I need vax higher than fa

I need fa higher than vax

I've decided that I am enough of a negatively utility at this point that I'm going to claim.

I'm Shadoweh. Conditional Ascetic Townie with the passive that no actions from someone ranked lower than me can affect me, including night kills. This is why I suspected Punreader's BP claim.

Since I'm likely to be ranked low...claiming seemed to be beneficial.

I have content to respond to, which I will in circa 12 hours.
DO NOT END THE DAY BEFORE I CAN EXPLAIN WHY I AM DOING THIS AND GIVE RESPONSES TO THE RESPONSES TO MY READS.

Claim: Conditional Bulletproof/Conditional Vigilante; the conditions are inverses.

I actually lied.
I DO have a conditional bulletproof, but it only protects me from those who are ranked HIGHER; I was aiming for an ungated Vig, with the illusion of being bp.

To explain, I can kill people ranked lower than I am, but they can kill me; I can't kill people ranked higher than me, but they can't kill me.

This is why PenguinPower is literally a punclaim.

Details for everything in 12 hours.

Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (10)
Dunnstral (9)
ActionDan/Nahdia (8)
Shoshin (7)
MariaR (6)
Espeonage (6)
the worst (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
DeasVail (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
NicoRobin (3)
ReubenWasFine/Lovebird (2)
Srceenplay (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
PenguinPower (0)
Pine/TwoInAMillion (0)

I shot Pine.

Taly I'm pretty confident on Vax being town can you pick someone else?

I invested him.

I have a cop guilty on Espeonage.

1) MariaR/Chara is intentional.
2) Yes, rankings are static. No more rankings.

Votecount 2.4

Espeonage

(6): DeasVail, Fire Assassin, the worst, Taly, PenguinPower, Shoshin

Fire Assassin

(1): Dunnstral

Not Voting

(8): Punreader, MariaR/Chara, Espeonage, Nahdia, Srceenplay, Vaxkiller, TehBrawlGuy

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to achieve a majority.
Deadline in (expired on 2018-07-04 23:06:00)

I have no reason to talk about it. Chara and me know full well what it is.

I am a ranking cop. (With a certain amount of shots I won’t disclose)
Based on my rank the results I get are dependent on.

If I rank higher than the person I am checking I will get the results I should get if I was a normal cop
For example I check a Town night one and I rank higher than them then I will get “not mafia”
If I am lower I get the opposite of what I should get
In same example I would get “Mafia”

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

Actually,

Dunn

wouldn't have been able to vig/protect/vanillize anyone but

Espe

? If I'm reading this correctly?

The balancing tool is that either me or dunn becomes vanilla. It doesn't need another one.

Also, EP flavour, in your best paraphrasing, and go.

Whoever won the bet got to choose to vig, protect, or vanillaise the other.

he said it was possible but has elaborated since

Did this ability HAVE to be used N1?

@Dunn/Espe

Yes

Dunn, given your vote, I'm assuming you believe Maria over Fire, why?

For the reasons I gave earlier as to why Fire's claim was scummy

I unvoted him after he changes his claim

The NK didn't happen last night.

I protected Espeonage from night kills

I could only target espe and it had to be used night 1

You know what, I've been thinking about it, and I cannot see a reason not to claim my role at this point.

I am Psyche, the message facilitator. During the night phase, I choose two people to get prompts to send a short message to each other along with the scores that they gave each other. Or, at least I'm pretty sure it's to each other, I'm still awaiting definite clarification on that aspect.

Both the people chosen by Screenplay last night are still alive, and I would have probably gone with one who was more likely to be voted out and one who was unlikely to be voted out, but that's just me.

10. Srceenplay
10. Taly
10. TheBrawlGuy
9. Chara
8. Shoshin
7. The Worst
6. vaxkiller
6. Dunnstral
5. Fire Assassin
5. Nahdia
4. pine
4. pun reader
3. lovebird
2. nico
1. mariar
0. deasvail
0. espe
0. PP

punreader probably would have been moved down a little, Fire Assassin, based on today, also would move down. Maybe Dunn, too, MariaR I'd probably put around where Nahdia is and it would mostly be because that's about as town as I'd ever put MariaR.

Espeonage would move up just based on Fire Assassin's claims.

I would rank deasvail a little higher, but only because I don't remember reading anything by them, probably the 1 point slot.

Also, I am wondering whether I should say who spoke to each other last night, what do you think, ducky?

hold on what?

if you have spicy night action info share it!!!

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

confirming this

The people connected by Screenplay were the worst and Taly.

confirming this

I probably forgot something.

If Punreader shot Pine then either
A) Punreader is scum
B) Punreader is town and scum also shot Pine
C) Scum shot someone else and they lived

And also why can’t there be two one shot cops in games are both claiming to be full blown cops?

[Commander Shepard]

Furthermore if you believe there can’t be two cops why is this not a 1v1 for both claimed cops?

[Commander Shepard]

Protected from people below them, kills people ranked higher. That screams “self-aligned” to me.

I’m not opposed to leashing it.

This is the only thing close to a read I could find in Pine’s ISO.

I could buy scum and Punreader shooting this.

Especially if SK.

I also find that with everyone giving their reads list Fire’s claim seems possible and now need to look at Maria’s. Fire still gives me the heebie jeebies of reaper influence though.

[Commander Shepard]

Why are you so concerned with appearing town rather than just playing to a town wincon in order to just help town win?

Super Pro Tip, do town things, and town reads will follow, this much concern about being townread by people troubles me. It troubles me quite a bit.

I understand why you'd be concerned about this but you also need to understand where I'm coming from. Even the best townies get mislynched sometimes; being townread isn't always as simple as doing pro-town things, sometimes it's a matter of presenting your thought process in a way that allows others to understand how it comes from a town perspective.

I'm concerned about appearing town because I've been disengaged from the game to the point where there's an understandable amount of paranoia about my alignment, and when I started getting back into the game doing pro-town things, people still called me scum because I didn't have enough certainty and they didn't like my question-based approach.

My sense is that people are getting caught up in the way I'm presenting my thoughts instead of actually looking at what I'm saying, so I'm presenting basically the exact same information except in the form of cases. Like, I had said most of the stuff in my PP case before. There's not really much new stuff there. I just put the information together in a different way so that players who can't read between the lines see what I'm saying and are better able to understand my thought process.

does anyone here have experience with scum Shoshin? this post just ruined my scumread but it could be faked by someone with any sort of reasonable skill at doing so.

I just finished a game with scum!shoshin, and while it feels similar in terms of general content, the tone behind it is pretty different, especially in a post like this one. I also resonate a lot with the being disengaged but wanting to be townread. She was one of my townreads D1, and she still is. I think it's a huge mistake to go after her.

Also disagree with lynching Fire today. I agree he's the most likely Scum out of the 4 linked by roles, + Maria's claim, but if he's town, leaving him alive forces the mafia to either get copped or deal with him for us. We've got way less dangerous scummy lynches like PP. I'd also be ok with seeing Shepard swing. I had a weak town read on Nahdia but I really don't like how much Shepard has avoided commenting on PP directly and obviously I don't like his push on Shoshin. #chainsaw

I will 1v1 wallpost against anyone who wants to come for

TW's

life atm.

ftr, this is not helpful. if someone genuinely wants to scumread tw, stifling that discussion is not good

Lol this is flawed as fuck and I need to see if it’s town flawed or scum flawed

If I comment on PP oh no! I am scum for not catching up!
If I comment on stuff other than PP oh no! Must be chainsaw for not talking about PP.

No one has answered the question I asked and no one has said it is a bad question Ergo the push is good.

[Commander Shepard]

let's do thisssssssss

scores are approximate since the double-weighted scores are not an exact doubling of themselves (evidenced by Pine's slot; to get his average he'd have needed a 0 from Reuben/Lovebird which we know is not correct).
even so these are probably close enough to the actual scores that I'm feeling comfortable.

Position	Name	Rank
1st	Chara	8.29
2nd	the worst	7.19
3rd	Taly	6.71
4th	TehBrawlGuy	6.29
5th	Dunnstral	6.25
6th	Punreader	6.06
7th	Nahdia	6.00
8th	DeasVail	5.56
9th	Espeonage	5.56
10th	Shoshin	5.44
11th	MariaR	5.38
12th	Pine	4.94
13th	ManWithNoName	4.75
14th	Fire Assassin	4.71
15th	Vaxkiller	4.13
16th	PenguinPower	4.06
17th	Lovebird	2.00
18th	NicoRobin	1.63

Spoiler: data tabled (more #aesthetic than useful but....fight me)

X axis : receiver of score
Y axis : giver of score

	RECEIVER
GIVER	TehBrawlGuy	Taly	Punreader	MariaR	DeasVail	Espeonage	Dunnstral	Nahdia	the worst	Pine	Shoshin	Fire Assassin	Lovebird	Chara	ManWithNoName	Vaxkiller	PenguinPower	NicoRobin
TehBrawlGuy	10	1	10	8	5	0	9	6	2	10	7	4	5	6	3	4	0	0
Taly	5	10	10	6	6	0	2	4	9	5	8	1	3	10	7	0	0	4
Punreader	0	10	10	6	4	6	9	8	5	0	7	5	2	10	1	4	0	3
MariaR	9	4	10	10	5	10	5	0	8	2	4	3	0	6	6	1	7	0
DeasVail	3	10	10	0	10	2	4	5	9	4	8	5	1	6	7	6	0	0
Espeonage	9	8	4	5	6	10	10	4	7	0	3	0	1	5	2	10	6	0
Dunnstral	2	9	7	6	4	8	10	5	5	4	3	10	0	10	6	0	1	0
Nahdia	4	5	10	3	5	6	2	10	7	4	6	9	1	10	0	0	8	0
the worst	6	10	5	8	6	9	2	7	10	4	3	1	0	10	0	4	5	0
Pine	10	9	0					0		10		8		10			0
Shoshin	8	10	5	0	6	3	6	4	9	1	10	2	0	10	7	5	0	4
Fire Assassin	8	2	3	9	5	0	4	10	7	4	6	10	1	10	6	0	4	0
Lovebird
Chara	10	10	8	6	5	4	5	9	7	0	6	4	3	10	0	0	2	1
ManWithNoName	10	10	4	1	0	0	6	5	7	4	8	5	3	9	10	6	0	2
Vaxkiller	0	0	7	0	6	4	2	10	5	10	4	9	5	3	6	10	8	1
PenguinPower	9	0	0	10	8	7	10	3	6	2	4	4	5	0	5	6	10	1
NicoRobin	4	6	0	8	8	20	14	12	12	20	0	0	2	16	10	10	18	10
	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE
	6.29	6.71	6.06	5.38	5.56	5.56	6.25	6.00	7.19	4.94	5.44	4.71	2.00	8.29	4.75	4.13	4.06	1.63
	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS
	4	7	6	2	1	3	3	3	1	4	1	2	0	9	2	3	1	1
	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES
	2	2	3	3	1	4	0	2	0	3	1	2	4	1	3	5	7	8
unaccounted votes	1	1	1	2	2	2	2	1	2	1	2	1	2	1	2	2	1	2
unaccounted points	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	0	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	11
av. unacc. score	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	0	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	5.5

Putting this here for my reference

[Commander Shepard]

Vi

Welcome, NicoRobin.

People care about what you think. To be specific, they're all clamoring to know what you think of them.
You are

Vi

, the

Ranking Townie

.

Alignment: Town

-- You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Passive: Public Rankings

(

Get 'em while they're still fresh!

) -- Your D1 rankings of other people will be made public in-thread and are assigned double weight.

17. NicoRobin

(TOWN)

Average:

2.06

Number of 10s:

1

Number of 0s:

8

With that, Night 1 begins immediately and ends in (expired on 2018-06-20 21:38:00).

0
4
3
0
0
0
0
0
0

4
0

1
2
1
1
20
AVERAGE
2.25
TENS
1
ZEROES
8


Something is off here based on the numbers provided by worst. The averages are wrong. Did someone sanity check these?

[Commander Shepard]

The number of points for NicoRobin should be 35/17 to get 2.05. There's too many numbers there.

[Commander Shepard]

Vi

Welcome, NicoRobin.

People care about what you think. To be specific, they're all clamoring to know what you think of them.
You are

Vi

, the

Ranking Townie

.

Alignment: Town

-- You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Passive: Public Rankings

(

Get 'em while they're still fresh!

) -- Your D1 rankings of other people will be made public in-thread and are assigned double weight.

17. NicoRobin

(TOWN)

Average:

2.06

Number of 10s:

1

Number of 0s:

8

With that, Night 1 begins immediately and ends in (expired on 2018-06-20 21:38:00).

0
4
3
0
0
0
0
0
0

4
0

1
2
1
1
20
AVERAGE
2.25
TENS
1
ZEROES
8


Something is off here based on the numbers provided by worst. The averages are wrong. Did someone sanity check these?

We are missing the information from the other two dead people.

Whoops.

We're missing information from Lovebird yeah, but it looks like she didn't submit to get the averages to line up. We have Nico's and we have Pine's except for a few gaps?
If I put in 0's for Pine and Lovebird it doesn't make sense.

We need a number that x/y * 2.06 is roughly an integer.
x = y * 2.06 where X and Y are both integers. Going through the numbers means 17 is the only valid one meaning lovebird didn't submit.

[Commander Shepard]

Or it could be 18 and 37 or 17 and 35

[Commander Shepard]

The sum of the NicoRobin column is 36. Something is hinky there. If Lovebird submitted it's a 1 for Nico but if she didn't then the numbers are too high.

[Commander Shepard]

RadiantCowbells

Welcome, ReubenWasFine.

You're a force to be reckoned with.
You are

RadiantCowbells

, the

Loud Doctor

.

Alignment: Town

-- You win when all threats to town are dead, and there is at least one member of town alive.

Active: I Like Doctors

(

And so you are one.

) -- Twice during the game, you can target someone during the Night Phase to protect them from the first kill attempt on them. They will be informed that you visited them.

18. Lovebird

(TOWN)

Average:

1.78

Number of 10s:

0

Number of 0s:

4

If Lovebird submitted, it's a mandatory 10 for herself.
If we assume Pine put in a zero that makes the average
2.33333 repeating

To get 1.78 you'd need 32 points total. There's 32 there before Lovebird did anything. So if Lovebird submitted we have 10 too many, if she's treated as all zeroes then the NicoRobin column sum is off and all the zeroes calculations are wrong.

Something is wrong with these numbers.

[Commander Shepard]

But then Fire claims and he's scum because there can't be two cops? I thought claims weren't AI... I thought Maria was open to crazy setup stuff... but nah, guess not.

I said this before and I'll say it again. I didn't believe fire was a cop because of his invest result more so then him claiming cop itself.

Thus begs the question, why aren't you voting Fire? And why aren't you looking for Fire's partners if you believe that? Why is this day not a 1v1 between you both if you believe he can't be a cop.

[Commander Shepard]

Her posts feel more defensive than scumhunting oriented.

Can you show me what defensive posting you're talking about? That could just be more playstyle given I'm a very reactive player but I'd like to see what you're on about.

On D1, she said she was openly lying about reads/rankings in a way that makes me think she's trying to avoid commiting to any positions, a pretty typical scum pattern.

I don't see why this is an issue when scum me can just give you reads and stick to them for the most part because it's kinda easy to do that. Well at least for me given I find scum easier than town but you wouldn't know that if you didn't know me

She quickly jumped onto Nahdia's reasoning to end the day without wanting to scumhunt.

I have no idea where you're going with this? Yes I did agree with Nahdia that the day should end early but I don't get where you got the "without scumhunting" part I wanted the day to end early so people didn't second guess reads.

And the way she voted Fire today after he claimed didn't square with the way she was thinking on D1 about the game's roles/setup (i.e. on D1 she's going on about how the scum might have roles to screw with our rankings, which is a really speculative position, but then when Fire claims, she's suddenly can't speculate about multiple cops?),

Na more cops isn't the problem godfathers can be a thing etc etc I really disliked his result and the way he went about it. The fact he unvoted after my claim was...interesting

Why would it matter if people second guess reads? Making sure reads are solid is a core foundation of the game.

[Commander Shepard]

You thought a guilty on Esp wasn't plausible?

Check my rankings esp was one of my top townreads and his reaction felt legit to me. I felt it was more likely fire was bsing in some way IE gambit or just fakeclaiming then having a srs guilty on one of my top townreads yes. If it was on someone I was scumreading I wouldn't have had an issue.

But then Fire claims and he's scum because there can't be two cops? I thought claims weren't AI... I thought Maria was open to crazy setup stuff... but nah, guess not.

I said this before and I'll say it again. I didn't believe fire was a cop because of his invest result more so then him claiming cop itself.

Thus begs the question, why aren't you voting Fire? And why aren't you looking for Fire's partners if you believe that? Why is this day not a 1v1 between you both if you believe he can't be a cop.

He took it back because his is based on rankings that we can not conf and that means the base of the strong sr is gone. I can still see fire flipping scum easy because I would like to think he's decent at the game when he tries. For now he's just in a base of a scumread while I sr your slot

much

more

So you scumread more than someone who to you is mechanically confirmed scum? Seems legit.

Sarcasm detected.

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: MariaR

Fire Shoshin MariaR
Punreader SK

This game is coming together beautifully.

Pedit: If he can't be a cop >> You're a cop >> Ergo confirmed scum. It's a counterclaim. That's a thing.
That's also hyperbole. Examining reads is something everyone should be doing.

[Commander Shepard]

And yeah I believe there's no cop claims right now. Neither of them are acting like cops should act. I think they're using too much information and trying to ride the cred.

[Commander Shepard]

Check my rankings esp was one of my top townreads and his reaction felt legit to me. I felt it was more likely fire was bsing in some way IE gambit or just fakeclaiming then having a srs guilty on one of my top townreads yes. If it was on someone I was scumreading I wouldn't have had an issue.

Okay... why would that make Fire's claim fake rather than the result flawed?

I'm actually surprised there aren't more powers based on the rankings. Scum lied about the numbers for a reason.

If any of the cop claims are genuine I'm actually leaning towards Fires mechanically simply because it uses the rankings.

Pedit Because of your PP unvote. It was horrible. You spent a majority of the thread talking about PP and then unvote him and haven't actually seemed to do any reevaluating of the slot. A majority of your reasons PP is scum also don't link to PP's meta.

[Commander Shepard]

And yeah I believe there's no cop claims right now. Neither of them are acting like cops should act. I think they're using too much information and

trying to ride the cred.

Neither of me or fire are doing this. Fire is also not mech scum and the fact you keep ignoring that is telling

Cops don't usually say their results might be wrong when they claim, especially when they've been scumreading the person they got a guilty on.

You do when it's a guilty and the guy is getting run up to L-1 very fast. Cause then you get lynched when they flip town.

Not always. Especially in Face To Face mafia. If you assume that there is at least one cop in MariaR and Fire then naturally scum would have some sort of defense against it. Having the results be sane/insane depending on the rankings makes sense.

Pedit: If you're a cop then you'd be counter claiming or arguing there'd be two cops. It's pretty straight forward. Either vote Fire or you're full of shit.

Pedit2: Chara said your votes are linked. Are you linked some other way? I don't see a reason I shouldn't be voting my top scumread, especially when you don't actually vote who you scumread and instead vote me.

[Commander Shepard]

Because of your PP unvote. It was horrible. You spent a majority of the thread talking about PP and then unvote him and haven't actually seemed to do any reevaluating of the slot. A majority of your reasons PP is scum also don't link to PP's meta.

I don't understand how you read my unvote as a scum-tell. If I were town in that situation, you think I'd have ignored the new information and kept pushing PP?

What do you mean my reasons don't linke to PP's meta? And I gave my reasons before even looking at any of his games, so I'm not sure what that has to do with my alignment.

I think just because someone linked you a post doesn't make the reasons NOT meta related invalid.

Furthermore, if you're using a meta argument and evaluating it, you'd have to read that entire game to obtain the context in which the post came from and compare it to this one here and see if they are similar.

A simple POST is not enough to unvote.
That you gave non meta reasons is my fucking point.

The post doesn't have any relation to those non meta reasons, so those non meta reasons should still be reasons you scumread the slot.
So your arguments for PP scum are
(A bunch of non meta reasons and meta reason) someone gives post
You still have (A bunch of non meta reasons and a meta reason that needs a reread)

Since you haven't actually reevaluated anything and seen how that post compares to your meta reasons you're very likely scum.

Pedit what? You're not a cop...Then how did the Vax shit happen? *goes back to relook*

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: fire
My invest was a cop as well I don't think we have 2 cops

You're claiming cop here. So which is it? Are you or are you not a cop?

[Commander Shepard]

Actually, I've made multiple posts entertaining this idea and questioning Maria/Fire as a pair, and it's driving me a bit crazy. Nobody seems interested too interested in that though...

I don't believe that town has 0 investigative roles so if nobody else says anything I don't think they can be a pair

Not everyone has claimed. Why the fuck would an investigative if it exists out itself now? If anything it'd check between the two cop/invest/whatever claims.

Pedit:

1) No I don't. If you think Fire is scum then you should be voting him. You're a claimed cop/invest/whatever. It's a fucking counterclaim.
2) No I don't. I think you're scum. The only thing mentioned is your votes are linked. So I'm a okay to vote you.
3) No I don't. If you used a cop ability then you're still counter claiming Fire.

[Commander Shepard]

And yeah I believe there's no cop claims right now. Neither of them are acting like cops should act. I think they're using too much information and trying to ride the cred.

0% chance we lynch an investigative claim today

Then we have to pretty much lynch Shoshin or we're probably hitting town.

Because this cop shit is bullshit. Maria and Fire have both done sketchy shit around their claims and I believe none of it.

Pedit: Hey DV. Thoughts on the Maria/Fire situation.

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Shoshin

[Commander Shepard]

3) No I don't. If you used a cop ability then you're still counter claiming Fire.

How long have you played mafia?

Long enough to know you're full of shit. This game is too small to support two cops and Fire's makes more sense than yours if I have to pick. I'd rather just use my machine gun to kill you but the moderator took all my bullets (sniff).

Pedit:
Yes it FUCKING IS WHEN IT'S A COP. Other roles fine. But a cop and a cop both the same night is crap.
yes you "cased" my slot. Waaaaaaaaaah you should be voting Fire. And until you do I want your fucking head.

[Commander Shepard]

Oh I disagree with the common thought of the thread. I must be dumb. That's it yeah. Apparently you can't actually counter the points I have so now I'm dumb.

I gotta go. I'll start giving a shit when people don't resort to attacking others instead they attack points. Which none of you have actually done. Shoshin has came close and said they don't believe my reasons, but they don't actually attack the points which means they have merit.

Let's lynch Shoshin people.

[Commander Shepard]

I am afk today and tomorrow y’all. Really need to lynch Shoshin here.

[Commander Shepard]

I am afk today and tomorrow y’all. Really need to lynch Shoshin here.

y?

Their Unvote of PP makes 0 sense.

It’s like someone told them the earth is the third rock from the sun so PP is town.

[Commander Shepard]

So why would one post destroy your entire scumread on PP? And if it did why focus exclusively on someone to the exclusion of all others if your case is that bad?

Look at these questions, MWNN. How are these not evidence that Sheperd is pre-inclined to read me as scum?

I just think there's a big difference between misrepresenting something and being mistaken. I don't think there is enough in that one post to make the leap to misrepresentation and lynch him based on it.

I understand what you're saying but my point is that he's specifically emphasizing certain things I've said while ignoring others, which to me is more than just a mistake or misinterpretation, it's manipulative. Sheperd's a pretty bright guy, after all. I find it hard to believe that he ignores the reason I unvoted - to keep PP from being lynched while I reevaluate - to push the idea that I suddenly townread PP. I also find it hard to believe that he'd scumread me for that turn because if anything it's a town-tell - why would scum me stop voting PP there when I could easily let that lynch happen?

You’re making the same arguments

I

did as scum.

You’ve never seen me as town.

I can think of a few reasons you stop the PP lynch from most to least likely.

1) It’s a double bus and it is an excuse. (Especially true in one or both of the cop/invest is telling the truth)
2) It’s a mislynch and you don’t wanna be called out on your shit making you an important PR role.
3) You haven’t been/suck at scum so you’re freaking out about me suspecting you since I have seen your recent town meta. And you’re doing things different.

[Commander Shepard]

3*, 4, 6, 7, 8*, 10*, 12*

I'm going to feel so shitty if I lynch

Sho

or

Shep

and they flip town, but a flip on one of them will give a lot of clarity...

Actually

What if

Sho

and

Shep

were copped?

Fuck yeah. I would be down for that.

[Commander Shepard]

So why would one post destroy your entire scumread on PP? And if it did why focus exclusively on someone to the exclusion of all others if your case is that bad?

Look at these questions, MWNN. How are these not evidence that Sheperd is pre-inclined to read me as scum?

Lol asking why you do something doesn’t preincline me to jack.

This can die.

Unload my assault rifle of all its thermal clips into Shoshin

(EDI: Error again you have no thermal clips)

Well shiiiit

[Commander Shepard]

You’ve never seen me as town.

Yeah I have. I've read your games and I've played with you as town.

Calling bullshit on that or you wouldn’t have needed my games in the newbie because you coulda done that yourself.

#memoryFail

Gotta go peace out.

[Commander Shepard]

Am I the only person that's thinking

Sho/Shep

are fighting

Fire/Maria's

battle?

Fire/Maria

shouldn't even be voted or lynched at all right now because of their claims.

But it makes no sense that

Fire/Maria

say the other's fakeclaiming but not really voting each other, or asserting themselves against the other. If they really do believe the other person is faking cop, isn't that virtually a scum counterclaim to them? I mean, why else would they say the other's fakeclaiming then?

Their game doesn't look consistent to their reads?

I mean, I'm not even saying

Fire/Maria

can't BOTH be town cops, but they're not working in a manner very conducive to their opinions right now. I can understand as a town cop - that they want their own lynch so they can do their own mode of gamesolving... but it's not cohesive, and I don't know if it's trying to be.

And I can see how

Sho/Shep

agree on

Fire/Maria

not being very towny outside their claims, but I don't know why they're 1v1ing each other so hard?

Like what the fuck is this?

You mean like I have been asking constantly about Maria and Fire and never gotten an answer from Maria why the fuck her vote is on me instead?

Because Shoshin as town is logical. I demonstrated their flawed logic and I am “misinterpreting” and they don’t say how and they don’t say what just that I am.

It’s the last gasp of a cornered scum.

Pedit I really gotta go will read Shoshin’s posts later

[Commander Shepard]

Will catch up later tonight.

Gotta do my regularly scheduled away mission.

[Commander Shepard]

Intent to hammer

And if PP flips town we lynch Shoshin. If they are scum I reevaluate and see if Shoshin is bussing.

I have an unscheduled meeting.

[Commander Shepard]

With any luck you won’t have to bother and I will be dead and y’all will lynch Shoshin.

[Commander Shepard]

Anyone got any last thoughts before I hammer?

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Penguin Power

See y’all later when I don’t want to pray to porcelain.

[Commander Shepard]

Sorry for late entry. I expected to be dead so I hung out at a friend’s all night.

I am confused on how I am alive and how Punreader is alive.

Kinda makes me useless now shit.

Punreader is confirmed not group scum unless they are BP as I am relatively confident they shot me last night.

Why the fuck would someone heal me?

I am a fucking weird PGO esque (not official role name). If I get shot by scum they die but shot by town:SK I die. Was trying to die so Shoshin gets lynched because Shoshin is obvScum.

Mainly I wanted a chance to confirm Punreader as not a scum vig and then save a mislynch so we would hit scum. I was a planned mislynch for scum so pretty much a safe bet to try to get punreader to shoot me and be dead.

I haven’t read at all except what I have already mentioned since I expected to die.

I have to go but something funny is going on as I should have never been healed.

[Commander Shepard]

Taly was probably shot Day One.

Missing vig shot was almost certainly on me.

[Commander Shepard]

My flavor is that I am a true responsible adult so I make sure to ban scum but I will die if my peers decide I am a bad listmod. It’s kinda funny.

Going to bed now.

[Commander Shepard]

Ooooooooooooooooooooo. I think Vax is a friendly neighbour.

1) Unlikely. With 2 cops a tracker neighbor and my memory is shit at midnight other invests.
2) It would have hit me and thus been created
3) if true Unless scum rolestopped me but why?
4) Why the fuck you fishin?

5) sleep sounds amazing.

[Commander Shepard]

Like I was a designated mislynch

My head hurts going to bed now I like understand nothing.

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Shoshin

#sleepDeprivedCommandersIsBad

[Commander Shepard]

However, I must insist we let him live for one more night and simply lynch him tomorrow, as that is the optimal play.

I understand you may have reasons for this that I am not privy to, but as the most likely person, in my mind, to be scum, I will likely be pushing for his lynch today unless this is explained.

Also Shepard, does the PGO element of your role only work with kill attempts or other actions as well?

FoS DeasVeil

Why the fuck would I tell scum whether it did or not? That seems to be recipe for dumb

If I am then scum can’t roleblock then kill me they have to mislynch me
If I am not then scum know if they can eliminate me.

[Commander Shepard]

So tldr scum lied as I said?

Like what are you saying with all this?

[Commander Shepard]

So it's a little hard to tell given MariaR stated she would lie about her rankings prior to D2 as to obfuscate them from the pun, however,

Punreader (10)
MariaR (10)
Espeonage (10)
TehBrawlGuy (9)
the worst (8)
PenguinPower (7)
Chara (6)
Screenplay (6)
DeasVail (5)
Dunnstral (5)
Taly (4)
Shoshin (4)
Fire Assassin (3)
Pine (2)
Vaxkiller (1)
Nahdia (0)
Lovebird (0)
NicoRobin (0)

Having isoed her, I can see most of these lining up fairly well to the sentiment behind her posts.

...Isn’t that a bad thing?

That means like her reads haven’t changed at all despite having myself Lovebird and Nico as scum when Lovebird and Nico are flipped town and I know I am town.

[Commander Shepard]

Like why is Maria R town?
I am highly suspicious that she is “auto BP”. Seems like she is trying to make an excuse for why she is still alive in advance.

[Commander Shepard]

OK, so im town, I shot commander last night and hes still alive.... wtf

VOTE: Vaxkiller

I don’t believe in two vigs.

And I am reasonably confident Punreader shot me.

And as obvTown as I am I don’t believe in two protective actions on me.

One is a stretch. But two?

I think Vax scumclaimed. I don’t believe Vax shot me.

I really like am completely fucking confused.

[Commander Shepard]

You’re asking me to believe that town has two cops two vigs and two protectives?

What would scum have a nuke?

And I was fucking trying to die. *sigh*

[Commander Shepard]

Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (10)
Dunnstral (9)
ActionDan/Nahdia (8)
Shoshin (7)
MariaR (6)
Espeonage (6)
the worst (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
DeasVail (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
NicoRobin (3)
ReubenWasFine/Lovebird (2)
Srceenplay (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
PenguinPower (0)
Pine/TwoInAMillion (0)

I shot Pine.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU SHOOT PINE. Also why is your post formatted like that? HOW did you shoot pine? You claiming vig?

actually solid I didn't read your list before

why hard TR pine and scumread like Taly and Maria?

Because Pine was town? I don't know how you didn't see it, maybe you weren't interacting with him? Maybe that's why I didn't see anything from MariaR, I didnt interact with them. Taly scares me, im getting scum vibes again. MariaR was just leftover when I put the list together, I didnt want to bump anyone down

@Vaxkiller Assuming your claim is true which I doubt explain after Punreader claimed vig and proved it why you didn’t shoot Punreader?

[Commander Shepard]

You’re asking me to believe that town has two cops two vigs and two protectives?

What would scum have a nuke?

And I was fucking trying to die. *sigh*

Hot take: There's not two cops.

Explain how I am alive.
Like I legit do not see why I am not dead.

[Commander Shepard]

Actually no....

VOTE: Shoshin

Me living means that someone trusted my reads enough to heal me.

Let’s do this.

[Commander Shepard]

However, I must insist we let him live for one more night and simply lynch him tomorrow, as that is the optimal play.

I understand you may have reasons for this that I am not privy to, but as the most likely person, in my mind, to be scum, I will likely be pushing for his lynch today unless this is explained.

Also Shepard, does the PGO element of your role only work with kill attempts or other actions as well?

FoS DeasVeil

Why the fuck would I tell scum whether it did or not? That seems to be recipe for dumb

If I am then scum can’t roleblock then kill me they have to mislynch me
If I am not then scum know if they can eliminate me.

This reaction seems pretty over the top considering that you didn't mind if you died.

Why wouldn't protective be on the cop claim?

@Dunn I don’t know ask them
@DeasVeil Yes I don’t

mind

if I die. I just don’t want to hand scum a roadmap saying “here’s how to kill me” good luck!!

[Commander Shepard]

I am just going with facts.

1 or 2 people shot me.

I somehow lived.

I am trying to figure out how.

[Commander Shepard]

I am thinking Vax+Shoshin+MariaR and I was fear shot as I am a tunneler.

Invests would be on fire to see who killed/who fire checked and so fire would be too risky a kill for pun.

I mean if scum are entirely dominating this game killing me is kinda a smart move for them as no one ever suspects killing me.

[Commander Shepard]

Plus scum vig is an excellent counter to all this PR floating about. I mean I was joking about the nuke but the shoe fits.

[Commander Shepard]

Maybe Shep is the SK he said pun was, aren't they immune to death the first night they are shot?

Yes and pun mysteriously claims vig on day one how?

(Sarcasm this is just so blatantly bad)

[Commander Shepard]

Mobile posting, so I can't provide full details now, but:

I am Cheetory6, and I have a Conditional Bulletproof.
The main condition is me being the most popular player.

This isn't quite as broken as it sounds because there IS a second condition, but for obvious reasons, that condition is best left unclaimed so that the pun don't know when I can/cannot be shot.

Keeping in mind punreader claims BP on post 7 then claims vig.

[Commander Shepard]

Punreader (10)
Chara (10)
Taly (10)
Dunnstral (9)
ActionDan/Nahdia (8)
Shoshin (7)
MariaR (6)
Espeonage (6)
the worst (5)
Fire Assassin (5)
DeasVail (4)
Vaxkiller (4)
NicoRobin (3)
ReubenWasFine/Lovebird (2)
Srceenplay (1)
TehBrawlGuy (0)
PenguinPower (0)
Pine/TwoInAMillion (0)

I shot Pine.

WHY THE FUCK WOULD YOU SHOOT PINE. Also why is your post formatted like that? HOW did you shoot pine? You claiming vig?

actually solid I didn't read your list before

why hard TR pine and scumread like Taly and Maria?

Because Pine was town? I don't know how you didn't see it, maybe you weren't interacting with him? Maybe that's why I didn't see anything from MariaR, I didnt interact with them. Taly scares me, im getting scum vibes again. MariaR was just leftover when I put the list together, I didnt want to bump anyone down

@Vaxkiller Assuming your claim is true which I doubt explain after Punreader claimed vig and proved it why you didn’t shoot Punreader?

@Vaxkiller ???

[Commander Shepard]

So, you have pun AND Vax as scum?

All vig claims are mafia or SK right now?

I am thinking that. Or just punreader is town and lying about BP to not be shot. So they could kill things.

I have seen a game with one day vig and it was scum.

What reason do you have to believe a vig is alignment indicative and what reason do you have that Vax held their shot til now?

[Commander Shepard]

And what proof do we have that Vaxkiller actually shot me? Because I refuse to believe I was protected twice.

[Commander Shepard]

@Commander

Why? After calming down and reading the situation his actions made sense. Claiming a fake BP makes sense as town. So I thinks Puns town now.

Also his vig was very conditional. Mine less so. I'm a novice vig.

So you are legitimately thinking town has two cops two vigs two protectives?

And even if you are thinking one, what protective heals me?

And why the hell wouldn’t you have shot punreader?

Answer: You’re a scum vig trying to shoot me for creds or lying to murky things up.

[Commander Shepard]

I don't have any proof of anything, but this is mafia, we rely on deductive reasoning. I don't have to prove anything to think that Vax is town.

I'm just trying to clarify what you are thinking because I am still lost with your train of thought. So, either vax is mafia, and pun is SK, or Vax is mafia, pun is vig and pun lied about being conditional bulletproof because no one on the scum team would ever be ranked above him and he knew this on Day 1?

Pun is she or they I think.

Pun lied about conditional BP. That pun would just be regular able to be shot regardless of rankings. They didn’t lie because of who scum were because they wouldn’t know for starters but a vig’s usefulness is only as good as their longevity.

[Commander Shepard]

Scum has a vig now? Is that even allowed?

This exchange is getting intense AND confusing.

Yes.

1) It’s a theme game.
2) Scum vigs are things.

Again why would an unproven vig shot claim be town?

When the most likely answer is Vax is just lying.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

[Commander Shepard]

Also whats this about you an Pun talking with each other. DO you have a neighborhood?

I do have a night only neighborhood with Pun.

It’s why I am “reasonably certain” they shot me.

It’s also why you’re full of shit. I asked Punreader to shoot me.

[Commander Shepard]

Answer the SK question

No.

I don’t see how answering that question is anything but anti town.

[Commander Shepard]

How did you get a neighborhood with punreader?

Don’t know. It’s been there since night one.

[Commander Shepard]

@Vaxkiller

Assume you are infinite shot >> You didn’t shoot someone claiming your role because ???

Assume you are one shot >> You didn’t shoot someone claiming your role because ???

Answer the fucking question as to why you claimed to have shot me. Because I don’t believe you.

[Commander Shepard]

lol
I think commander sees his mistake which makes me think he is probably the SK here.

I am a fucking weird PGO esque (not official role name). If I get shot by scum they die but shot by town:SK I die. Was trying to die so Shoshin gets lynched because Shoshin is obvScum.

Like, why wouldn't you pass along this nugget of info: There is probably an SK in the game guys! My Role PM mentions it!

I'm thinking commander's role is likely some different version of the stated above claim.

Or you’re fucking grasping for straws here.

Secondly my role PM actually doesn’t mention an SK. I threw that in to make an SK sweat if it exists.

[Commander Shepard]

@Vaxkiller

Assume you are infinite shot >> You didn’t shoot someone claiming your role because ???

Assume you are one shot >> You didn’t shoot someone claiming your role because ???

Answer the fucking question as to why you claimed to have shot me. Because I don’t believe you.

He didn't claim my role. It's similar, but different.

Nope.

Punreader claimed conditional BP vig.

You claimed novice vig.

Same role different modifiers.

Still a fucking counter claim and the fact you’ve never pushed punreader is downright absurd.

[Commander Shepard]

Vax could literally be anything.

We have 0 proof he is a vig. More than likely just godfather fake claiming to add to the confusion.

Vax: “Your role claim is so well crafted!”
Vax: “Claims to have shot me”
Vax: Attacks the claim and says it’s not.

A+ logic for wins. /sarcasm

Lynch Vax.

Vax’s role PM might as well be straw grabber

[Commander Shepard]

lol
I think commander sees his mistake which makes me think he is probably the SK here.

I am a fucking weird PGO esque (not official role name). If I get shot by scum they die but shot by town:SK I die. Was trying to die so Shoshin gets lynched because Shoshin is obvScum.

Like, why wouldn't you pass along this nugget of info: There is probably an SK in the game guys! My Role PM mentions it!

I'm thinking commander's role is likely some different version of the stated above claim.

Or you’re fucking grasping for straws here.

Secondly my role PM actually doesn’t mention an SK. I threw that in to make an SK sweat if it exists.

Buuuuuuut if your role doesn't list SK don't you think there would NOT be an SK as your role doesn't list a way to resolve the action??????

Nope. It mentions scum and not scum.

[Commander Shepard]

SK would be patently not scum.

[Commander Shepard]

Still dodging the why’d you shoot me question over punreader 2 or 3 Times now.

Awesome. /sarcasm

[Commander Shepard]

Let's pull away from this baseless speculation from CS for a second, and I'd like you to expand on what may be baseless speculation on punreader's role because I feel you are implying that pun did shoot you and you can prove it, I assume?

Expand on that, please.

It’s simple.

I asked them in the hood to shoot me.

They said they were shooting someone and changed it to me before thread open.

[Commander Shepard]

Let's pull away from this baseless speculation from CS for a second, and I'd like you to expand on what may be baseless speculation on punreader's role because I feel you are implying that pun did shoot you and you can prove it, I assume?

Expand on that, please.

It’s simple.

I asked them in the hood to shoot me.

They said they were shooting someone and changed it to me before thread open.

So, how is this proof?

Because they are an uncc’d vig day one proven to have shot someone. Ergo proven killer.

Furthermore no one else died.

So if they didn’t shoot me (which they have also claimed in thread as well) where is their shot?

[Commander Shepard]

The main issue I'm having here is that you are asking for proof that Vax shot you, but seem to be taking at face value that pun shot you.

And, I've been trying to find a way to resolve this issue my last couple of posts, and you just aren't. You seem to take one as confirmed and the other as unconfirmed, but day 2 you didn't take pun as confirmed at all from what I recall.

Incorrect on multiple counts.

I believe (and it’s still probable) that Punreader is an SK.

The extra kill on night one was never CC’d.

Therefore punreader is a proven killer with a proven shot.

In contrast I do not believe Vax because there is no evidence to believe Vax and the counter (that I was protected twice) is just stupid.

[Commander Shepard]

I have to go to work but Pun having shot anyone else is suicide.

If anyone else dies me and person X vote them immediately for not shooting me.

[Commander Shepard]

So in the pun lying worlds they hold their shot

If SK it’s stupid
If town they could have just as easily said “nope not listening I am shooting this person still”
And as scum they would not hold a kill with how much out on the field.

So them not shooting me is suicide.

[Commander Shepard]

Why would you ask Pun to shoot you, did you think he was scum? I dont understand the logic here.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you want with this pun scenario. How in the world does not shooting pun make me scum? Have you thought out your argument all the way other than "there cant be 2 vigs"?

I'm assuming you are thinking that one of us is scum. IF I WERE the one that is scum then wouldn't I want to fucking shoot PUN????? Unless you think we are both scum.
I don't get this.

Asked and answered.

To the contrary, I wanted to prove that Commander Shepard wasn’t scum and that Shoshin is. Me v Shoshin would have had the issue of being really loud or then we waste time likely mislynching me before lynching Shoshin. My death would have confirmed Punreader not group scum (as I believed) and it would have shown Shoshin scum.

1) Because yes two cops two vigs and investigatives all town (if you are town which I doubt) would be impossible.

2) If you were scum you just simply aren’t a vig. Boom.

[Commander Shepard]

Why would you ask Pun to shoot you, did you think he was scum? I dont understand the logic here.

Also I have no idea what the fuck you want with this pun scenario. How in the world does not shooting pun make me scum? Have you thought out your argument all the way other than "there cant be 2 vigs"?

I'm assuming you are thinking that one of us is scum. IF I WERE the one that is scum then wouldn't I want to fucking shoot PUN????? Unless you think we are both scum.
I don't get this.

Asked and answered.

To the contrary, I wanted to prove that Punreader wasn’t scum and that Shoshin is. Me v Shoshin would have had the issue of being really loud or then we waste time likely mislynching me before lynching Shoshin. My death would have confirmed Punreader not group scum (as I believed) and it would have shown Shoshin scum.

1) Because yes two cops two vigs and investigatives all town (if you are town which I doubt) would be impossible.

2) If you were scum you just simply aren’t a vig. Boom.

Yay for brain farts. Even commanders aren’t immune

[Commander Shepard]

I mean I could but it’s more likely Vax is GF or you’re both scum together.

I’d rather vote my “guilty” as I don’t see two protectives in this setup so my “guilty” overrides your inno.

[Commander Shepard]

Or you’re just scum claiming an inno.

[Commander Shepard]

Pretty much yes you have a cop inno that you say was on Vax but redirection, bus driver, god father

These are all potential things that can impact what you are saying.

However I was shot by punreader truth.
I was claimed to have been shot by Vax.

So either you believe that Vax is a vig and I was protected twice, or you believe that something fucked with your check if real.

The latter is much more reasonable.

[Commander Shepard]

Furthermore the fact you aren’t dead raises questions as if two protectives exist surely a strongman exists which begs the question why aren’t you dead?

Ergo Vax is more likely scum with you.

[Commander Shepard]

So in order for your “innocent” to stand you must explain how these events unfolded.

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Commander Shepard

Fakeclaimed a role for their bulletproof but got caught out when a second vig claimed

Would have been the lynch today without the claim

Lol let’s assume that’s the case. It’s wrong but let’s assume that.

That takes care of one of two kills.

What happened to the second kill?

[Commander Shepard]

That means I still have to be protected by someone regardless of my claim’s status (hint: It’s true)

[Commander Shepard]

Pretty much yes you have a cop inno that you say was on Vax but redirection, bus driver, god father

These are all potential things that can impact what you are saying.

However I was shot by punreader truth.
I was claimed to have been shot by Vax.

So either you believe that Vax is a vig and I was protected twice, or you believe that something fucked with your check if real.

The latter is much more reasonable.

one protect could easily account for two shots. it depends on the mod. where's the proof punreader shot you and why do you believe it?
obviously, you could also be lying, but as we're talking about your reasoning here, that point is irrelevant for the moment.

Punreader is an confirmed vig << fact
Taly died today after likely being shot N1 << fact
There was one other kill << fact
Punreader claimed to have shot me before day flip ended << fact
There are no other kills to indicate they shot elsewhere << fact
So the only way they didn’t shoot me is if they held their shot
And one protect never does two shots. Never have seen it.

[Commander Shepard]

For reasons so elaborated Punreader also who is confirmed not group scum based on not dying as my explosion isn’t a bullet means that they are not group scum. Therefore they have no reason to lie about shooting me.

If they are SK they have no reason to withhold their shot

If they are town then they wouldn’t lie to have confirmed they shot me.

Therefore Vaxkiller is a confirmed liar and is lying to mislynch my ass.

[Commander Shepard]

Between that and two cop two vigs and two protects is bullshit

Even if you go with popular opinion (which imo is wrong) which is now one cop two vigs two protects that is still waaaay too much for a mini theme that just doesn’t make sense. Which is why Vax MariaR Shoshin does.

[Commander Shepard]

How did you get a neighborhood with punreader?

Don’t know. It’s been there since night one.

Not only does Vax wish to distract from facts Vax tries to change the conversation away from those facts.

[Commander Shepard]

@Commander

Why? After calming down and reading the situation his actions made sense. Claiming a fake BP makes sense as town. So I thinks Puns town now.

Also his vig was very conditional. Mine less so. I'm a novice vig.

...Welcome to the flail folks.

Pun is town.
Realizes pun can’t be town in town!Vax world.

Vax: Wait! I mean pun is scum. Please don’t lynch me!

I am going to work. Seriously the above post is all kinds of terribad. Vax has no answer so he just tries to paint people as scum and says leaving punreader alive is bad yet doesn’t vote punreader.

[Commander Shepard]

You hesitate to lynch me because you didn’t shoot me. That my town flip would confirm you as a liar.

#boomGoesTheScum

[Commander Shepard]

BTW, since our flips will show who is telling the truth scum will likely be super bussing their scum mate... but alas, I have no votes except yours!

You’re asking me to believe that town has two cops two vigs and two protectives?

What would scum have a nuke?

And I was fucking trying to die. *sigh*

Hot take: There's not two cops.

I dunno. Doc or some shit. Idk why they'd protect you, but w/e.

I'm kinda musing though, and this can be backburner considering no flipped scums, but possibility of an SK?

You’re asking me to believe that town has two cops two vigs and two protectives?

What would scum have a nuke?

And I was fucking trying to die. *sigh*

Was trying to rectify this bc its a good point.

This is also going to flip scum.

Commander then punreader then espeonage

Can’t even keep your story straight.

“Scum are massively bussing Shepard.”

“Scum aren’t massively bussing Shepard.”

In a span of three posts. The only one not his is me calling out his bullshit.

Pretty much everyone is scum to Vax besides Vax. This is just WiFoM.

[Commander Shepard]

Correction it’s EP’s vote count.

Point still stands

[Commander Shepard]

And facts are facts dude.

You can put “facts” in air quotes but you’re clearly Conwaying this shit.

[Commander Shepard]

I am at work but will be available late.

Hopefully that’s 5 hours from when Chara made that post.

@DeasVail While cute the cat pics take a while to load on my phone. It also helps me to help put emotions behind big walls of text which is something I struggle with. That’s mainly what my life is after work due to a recent taxing away mission.

[Commander Shepard]

@DeasVail what I mean is please spoiler that cuteness

[Commander Shepard]

punreader, you should just shoot me so that town can lynch a scum tomorrow rather than wasting time on me.

You know, this is actually the shot I had submitted until four hours prior to deadline, but to explain why I didn't, you have to first understand:
Commander Shepherd had a method of communicating with me, and

asked

me to shoot him. I wasn't particularly fond of the idea, but I obliged all the same. So, neither kill was mine. (The source of Taly's death is, presumably, having been the N1 nightkill and pun simply shooting TehBrawlGuy tonight.)

I'm fairly confident in three pun being Fire Assassin, Shoshin, and ManWithNoName (outside chance of the worst) at this point, but I still maintain Fire Assassin should not be lynched today. (In spite of his investigation choice being one which is 98% likely a pun investigation as Dunnstral was already nigh-conftown.) Given this,
VOTE: Shoshin.

@Dunn what do you make of this post here?

[Commander Shepard]

I understand what you are saying with the last paragraph.

However from where I am it is all “mechanical weirdness”.

I don’t see how the fuck I am alive. The simple answer to that question is Vax is lying. Further evidenced by the fact Vax can’t keep his scumreads straight.

Now if we start from the side of Vax is telling the truth then Punreader has to be lying.

If we start from Punreader and Vax telling the truth then I am protected twice. << This would be the mechanical weirdness I have a hard time accepting. I would find a cop inno being manipulated or outright false over two people protecting me. And yes I would believe it would necessarily be two otherwise cop follow the doc becomes a thing especially if I am wrong on MariaR with the auto BP claim given. We would have to have a separate protective (if you go with the one protective saves against all kills) that would have to hit me. Then if MariaR is truthtelling which I doubt, I think it was a ploy to not be NK’d or a ploy to avoid suspicion about not being NK’d, throw the one shot BP cop on it.

Three protectives or two AND cops is just too weird.

Simple answer is the last to claim is the liar.

Do you understand what I am saying?

[Commander Shepard]

From my point of view it is literally mechanical weirdness. Because I know a protective hit me or I would be dead.

[Commander Shepard]

The simple answer to that question is Vax is lying.

No it isn't, because he has an inno on him. I don't like jumping straight to godfathers

I don't think there are two protectives that targeted you - that doesn't make any sense to me both mechanics wise (I don't think there are two protectives) and reads wise (Fire claimed cop so why are protectives on you)

Okay...Then please point out what I am missing and how I can survive two shots on me?
I agree I find it absurd two protectives targeted me as well.

Which means I have to pick the least absurd of the options. There is also door three which is even more absurd than Vax lying, so I am loathe to even suggest it.

[Commander Shepard]

It’s a matter of picking which of the absurd to believe fmpov.

[Commander Shepard]

Oh god.

I just realized there is a world where no one is lying today and if it’s right it requires absolutely ingenious scum.

Lightning rod with strong willed kill. It was in a mini theme game I was in.

So lightning rod everything to me since I am a loud and vocal person.

Can anyone disprove this idea?

This one would explain potentially multiple protectives or if like there was a requirement the person survive.

[Commander Shepard]

Scum would rely on the fact I am a loud truck and then the chaos from my townflip scum ride the clusterfuck

Oh fuck.

[Commander Shepard]

Wait why isn’t fire screaming I am innocent?

*eyedaggers at Fire*

Fire who did you cop and what result did you get?

[Commander Shepard]

Shepard, contrary to the lessons of the Mass Effect series, there are other people in this game and Fire may have checked any of them.

Though, I do need some milk, could you go pick it up for me? That's what the RPG hero does, right?

ManWithNoName, I am aware of the trillions of people in the galaxy and the more than 10 Fire could have checked (assuming he is town). It’s why I asked him for his results.

The RPG hero takes on quests and side quests that help save the world. Time permitting they take on side quests. Should I have time tonight I will find you a great milk GIF assuming it doesn’t detract from eliminating reaper scum.

[Commander Shepard]

Lightning rod with strong willed kill. It was in a mini theme game I was in.

So lightning rod everything to me since I am a loud and vocal person.

Can anyone disprove this idea?

It's a wild theory based on nothing, and would make more sense with everything going to the dead town today

With everything going to the dead town today? You mean me? Like I am trying to figure out if this is a slip or what you mean. Can you please restate that?

[Commander Shepard]

EDIT

I need to calm down i rewrote this a few times, this was the nicest version.


I made commander shepard claim because i was pissed off at the start of the day why he was still alive. He claimed is role and it did not jive at all with what I did.

******************If I were fucking scum why would I FAKE A FUCKING VIG ON HIM AFTER THE CLAIMED***************************

WHY

WHY

WHY??????

To mislynch me and cause chaos. I have claimed things as scum to cause chaos more times than I can count. More often than not I did it with the truth. It makes me think you probably killed TBG if there wasn’t a lightning rod.

[Commander Shepard]

Okay...let’s assume for a moment that happened and I am town.
Furthermore let’s assume that the lightning rod happened

Then who would be scum in that case. I am thinking Shoshin still.

[Commander Shepard]

@ManWithNoName
https://i.imgur.com/OrVcZi7.gifv

Closest gif I could find just replace shoe with milk. Not sure how this is relevant.

[Commander Shepard]

I'm going to post my incredibly simplistic thoughts on players, because despite all the "information" we do have, when it comes down to it, I don't actually have that much to say.

Punreader: Very unlikely to be group scum. Even if they are some kind of third party, at this stage it's most likely in their best interests to help the town so their death is not worth pursuing any time soon. I often don't really gel with the arguments they make, but that's probably not alignment-relevant in this case.

<< Agreed

MariaR: Overall I'm kind of underwhelmed by her play in the game. But I've been very underwhelming as well and so it's really a matter of working out whether this is town-apathy because of the mess that this game has been or if it's just scum coasting while town continues to be a mess. Is there any way to tell the difference between these two things??? I don't know! The inno on Vaxkiller is interesting and is a positive in my mind, but I can't rule it as unquestionably town.

<< Agreed

Espeonage: If Fire Assassin's role is taken as valid, then Espe is town. I also don't think that Fire and Espe are scum together because Fire almost got Espe lynched.

<< Agreed

Dunnstral: From play I strongly think that Dunn is town. There is also Fire's result (but Fire's alignment is a question mark to me right now)

<< I wouldn’t use strongly for Dunn (that’d be Chara) but their play does seem town.

Shepard: Very unsure what to think here. If I had to pick an alignment, it would be scum, but there are things that make me unsure. The FoSing of me without actually seeming to think that I'm scum seems to go against what scum would want to do. If they wanted to get me lynched, then just get me lynched. If they want to "townread" me, then I would expect some amount of buddying here. But maybe my problem here is that I'm making expected scumplay too simplistic. Maybe Shepard is just scum.

<< I am told that I have galaxy or moon logic. I also keep FoS’s in play when something really pings me the wrong way to go back and reevaluate it later. It pinged me pure and simple it doesn’t rise to Shoshin or Vax level pings but it is there.

The worst: TBG's post at the end of Day 2 did resonate with me as I had been thinking similar things. I find the worst's play to be generally town but with nothing that actually strongly points away from scum, and at this stage of the game, that requires a re-look at the worst's alignment. He also seems to really fit with what I'd expect from coasting scum, but Taly did strongly think he was town and they did have some kind of role interaction, which gives me pause.

<< I think this is odd you bring it up and don’t explore it. This paragraph reads all kinds of ewwwww.

Shoshin: Despite her being a common scumread, I actually like her play. I know I don't have any strong reason for thinking this, but I feel uncomfortable about the idea of lynching her. Maybe this is a bad thing! Maybe I'm just being bad! I don't know.

<< Ewwwww bad. No. Scum’s job is to make you uncomfortable lynching them. If you scumread someone you lynch them. Fuck feelings.

Fire Assassin: I don't even know. I really thought that the cop guilty fiasco was indicative of town but today's play from Fire has just not been what I would expect from town.

<< Agreed. But Punreader has a point.

Chara: Probably town despite my reservations.

<<Chara is like obvTow

ManWithNoName: My feelings on him are just super mediocre. If I needed to fill a scumteam theory, then I would probably put his name in because it wouldn't make me feel uncomfortable, but that would be lazy and maybe I just need to see more.

<< If I am wrong somewhere I could see ManwithNoName being scum

Vaxkiller: I struggle to see his play coming from scum so my inclination is then town regardless of Maria's alignment.

<< I struggle to see where his play is coming from as town and two vigs is really hard to swallow. The claim seems bullshit, and will continue to seem bullshit until either a moderator confirms I am right or Vax is true claiming.

---

I am completely aware that most of the above is vague and unspecific and not at all helpful, but that's where my thoughts are at right now.

I probably would just lynch Shepard, but I am really worried considering how this game has gone so far.

Let’s lynch Shoshin.

[Commander Shepard]

VOTE: Shoshin

[Commander Shepard]

With any luck you won’t have to bother and I will be dead and y’all will lynch Shoshin.

<< FYI one of my crumbs if anyone cares

[Commander Shepard]

Okay...let’s assume for a moment that happened and I am town.
Furthermore let’s assume that the lightning rod happened

Then who would be scum in that case. I am thinking Shoshin still.

Why are we making an ass out of you and me here?

I am a human. However I have met a good centaur race before. Maybe you’re a centaur male with no name?

If you mean why we would assume that is the case, it is because I am town and am trying to get people to consider the truth. This way, if I am mislynched, people are able to see where I am coming from and prepare for the next day. Considering the fact I replaced in and it has been non stop tunnel on my slot people owe me the chance to actually read me and present a case why I am scum or why I am town.

The only person I have seen do that is Vax and it’s “I shot you and you didn’t die” and my answer was “I wanted to” and here’s my crumb from the prior day proving so.

I am trying to bring discussion to the forefront and the fact that you deflect so is rather intriguing. Are you desperate man with no name? I figure if you surely scumread me a case or discussion could only help you, not hurt your cause. Your, what I believe is joking, does you no favors.

[Commander Shepard]

Let’s further more break down the people on my wagon:

1) Fire — A cop claim that could go either way.
2) ManWuthNoName — A Player that could go either way that has dodged discussion twice now
3) Dunn — Likely town could be deep wolf but probably town.
4) Shoshin — ObvScum said plenty there
5) Vaxkiller — A man who likely fakeclaimed vig and the only reason he isn’t being considered is the “inno”. Also can’t keep who the fuck He scumreads straight and wants all the options on the table besides his buddies.

Most of the votes are incredibly stale and lack any sort of logic at all. Or are manufactured logic (in the case of Vax. No one is actively pushing me yet the votes remain.

It’s much more likely this is a scumdriven wagon waiting on town to “finish me offL then claim “oh it was a mislynch who was on the end of it”.

[Commander Shepard]

In contrast let’s look at the Shoshin wagon

It has Punreader (almost certainly not group scum), the worst (pretty sure not group scum) and me (town af)

Seriously this isn’t hard.

[Commander Shepard]

Okay, let me try to get this out in the simplest way possible. You keep talking about this lightning rod thing and I am having a hard time wrapping my head around why I need to assume your theory on a lightning rod is true in order to believe you are town.

Why should I assume that this lighting rod thing occurred?

1) Because I tried to commit suicide.
2) I asked punreader to shoot me. Likely not group scum said they did.
3) Vaxkiller, the “inno” said they shot me.
4) No protective that I know of protects from two kills in a night and no one in their right mind would protect me after I asked to die.

5) This means even if you scumread me incorrectly. Even if you think I am one shot BP incorrectly then someone would have to protect me. When I specifically called out yesterday I wanted to die.

[Commander Shepard]

6) The alternative is you believe I am scum with Vaxkiller and Vackiller didn’t shoot me which then you could believe I am one shot BP.

[Commander Shepard]

The two shots on me dictate that someone is lying about shooting me. And I am going with the person who said they were shooting me before I didn’t die as being honest.

Pedit

So you believe that town has a semiconditional BP Infinite shot Vig
A BP cop
And a novice (shots tbd) vig
And scum didn’t have a strongman to counter?

[Commander Shepard]

And you believe two vigs and an SK exist

And I didn’t kill ANYONE?

[Commander Shepard]

Some of your assumptions would HAVE to be wrong there.

Otherwise I would have to be infinite shot lynch proof infinite shot BP godfather SK to even stand a chance against a semi conditional BP infinite shot vig Town. Like an SK would have considerable powers to balance the fact they would be alone.

One shot deathproof is weaker than semi conditional BP by miles.

[Commander Shepard]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deathproof

It is also generally not used in games like ever. And claiming that I want to die and then NOT dying is a huge way to get a target on my back.

Why the ever loving fuck would I do that?

[Commander Shepard]

I think we're discounting the fact that scum could have shot Taly again. Like, they didn't know Taly was going to die if they shot him N1, probably still wanted him dead. Other kill goes to the SK.

Also, I don't know that punreader actually claimed to kill you before you didn't die. Remember, I don't have access to the neighborhood to confirm that.

I do think that MariaR is town, so she clears Vax for me, and trying to lynch Vaxkiller, then, is just dumb.

First sentence wrong for many reasons
1) Wrong. Taly claimed they were going to die. Taly did die.
2) Scum would want Taly dead a person without any concrete reads over a “inno” in Vax. Why?
3) Why would I as an SK shoot TBG of all people? I can think of others I would shoot as an SK over an unclaimed person. I am the fucking Cookie Monster. I eat crumbs for breakfast.
4) Your last sentence asks why the fuck scum in that scenario don’t shoot Vax?

Second sentence is wrong because
1) It has been said multiple times.
2) Punreader themselves said so in thread this is the case.
3) Punreader is confirmed not group scum.
4) Your case requires punreader to lie.


..Do you need more reasons as to why that is hell to the no?

[Commander Shepard]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deathproof

It is also generally not used in games like ever. And claiming that I want to die and then NOT dying is a huge way to get a target on my back.

Why the ever loving fuck would I do that?

I don't know, I can't explain any of the word diarrhea you are sending out!

Then slow down and read it and attempt to understand what I am saying instead of attacking it and calling it diarrhea.

Because calling me an SK is just levels of stupid play
And even if you believe that you’re not voting a scumread which is a recipe for goddamn disaster tomorrow if you are right.

[Commander Shepard]

Because radical concept I am not an SK.

[Commander Shepard]

What kind of scum team leaves two cops an “innocent” and a claimed vig all alive to day three? Like ......

[Commander Shepard]

With any luck you won’t have to bother and I will be dead and y’all will lynch Shoshin.

<< FYI one of my crumbs if anyone cares

I asked to die yesterday in thread. Fact.

[Commander Shepard]

punreader, you should just shoot me so that town can lynch a scum tomorrow rather than wasting time on me.

You know, this is actually the shot I had submitted until four hours prior to deadline, but to explain why I didn't, you have to first understand:
Commander Shepherd had a method of communicating with me, and

asked

me to shoot him. I wasn't particularly fond of the idea, but I obliged all the same. So, neither kill was mine. (The source of Taly's death is, presumably, having been the N1 nightkill and pun simply shooting TehBrawlGuy tonight.)

I'm fairly confident in three pun being Fire Assassin, Shoshin, and ManWithNoName (outside chance of the worst) at this point, but I still maintain Fire Assassin should not be lynched today. (In spite of his investigation choice being one which is 98% likely a pun investigation as Dunnstral was already nigh-conftown.) Given this,
VOTE: Shoshin.

Punreader,very likely not group scum, confirmed the fact I asked them to shoot me.

Do you see this?

[Commander Shepard]

With any luck you won’t have to bother and I will be dead and y’all will lynch Shoshin.

<< FYI one of my crumbs if anyone cares

I asked to die yesterday in thread. Fact.

Okay, taking this piece by piece. I agree on this point.

Now, why is this important to the grand scheme of things?

I will get to that I am just going post by post.

[Commander Shepard]

Okay, I'll just wait until it all comes together to ask any questions I may have

Do you agree with the following statement

Either
Punreader shot me and is telling the truth about doing so
Or Punreader did not attempt to shoot me and is lying.

And do you agree with punreader is likely not confirmed scum?

[Commander Shepard]

Okay, I'll just wait until it all comes together to ask any questions I may have

Do you agree with the following statement

Either
Punreader shot me and is telling the truth about doing so
Or Punreader did not attempt to shoot me and is lying.

And do you agree with punreader is likely confirmed not group scum?

Sorry typo

[Commander Shepard]

Okay now let’s look at option B) That punreader lied

This would require someone who is likely not group scum lying to me AND at least one other person in a hood. They would have to do said lying before my flip so they would have expected me to die or be in trouble themselves yes?

Now why would someone who is not group scum do those things?

Do you agree that means that punreader is much more likely to be telling the truth about me asking to die?

[Commander Shepard]

So you with me ManWithNoName?

[Commander Shepard]

There is at least one other person.

Who is / is not I will not say.

But yes there is.

[Commander Shepard]

So do you agree with my prior statement that it is exceedingly unlikely punreader is lying?

[Commander Shepard]

(I know they aren’t but the exceedingly unlikely is for your benefit)

[Commander Shepard]

So with punreader shooting me of all people,

Now we have a “inno” in Vax claiming to have shot me. (I use that in quotes)

Do you agree that Vax claimed to have shot me?

So either A) Vax is lying
B) Punreader is lying
Or C) Lightning rod

[Commander Shepard]

Sorry for late entry. I expected to be dead so I hung out at a friend’s all night.

I am confused on how I am alive and how Punreader is alive.

Kinda makes me useless now shit.

Punreader is confirmed not group scum unless they are BP as I am relatively confident they shot me last night.

Why the fuck would someone heal me?

I am a fucking weird PGO esque (not official role name). If I get shot by scum they die but shot by town:SK I die. Was trying to die so Shoshin gets lynched because Shoshin is obvScum.

Mainly I wanted a chance to confirm Punreader as not a scum vig and then save a mislynch so we would hit scum. I was a planned mislynch for scum so pretty much a safe bet to try to get punreader to shoot me and be dead.

I haven’t read at all except what I have already mentioned since I expected to die.

I have to go but something funny is going on as I should have never been healed.

I did ask about it when I started.

However I have the added bonus of knowing punreader said so pre day open that they did.

I was struggling to put this together and my first thought was I was healed.

Healed once is possible. Twice not so much. Hence why I went after Vax.

The only way Vax is truth telling is if there is a lightning rod.

[Commander Shepard]

I was starting from
1) Punreader claimed in hood they shot me
That is stupid to lie about preflip with another person present
2) Therefore I thought I was healed
3) Healed twice is not a thing so Vax scum or LR.

Pedit finally. I feel like a goddamn tape recorder

[Commander Shepard]

Shepard, just curious, did you/Nahdia get my message on night 1?

It depends do cats nuzzle up against people often? Or do they only play Christian rock in the sound of a purr?

[Commander Shepard]

Yes I did I will quit with the jokes.

I was trying to tell you “I get the hint already” that it was you. I just wanted a bit of brevity.

[Commander Shepard]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... htning_Rod

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Nexus_(Role)

Who did you target last night DV?

[Commander Shepard]

@MariaR

Or all actions redirect to a given player

[Commander Shepard]

The only way Vax is truth telling is if there is a lightning rod.

So according to you scum have a lighting rod and a doc, cause that would be the only way to survive. What about everyone else? Shouldn't our cops have got back scum results? It looks like peopel have more ability's, were any of them fucked with?

Like you explain it like its as simple as a lighting rod explain everyone. Just one role. No a lighting rod messes with EVERYONE and we would see its effects everywhere!

You just want to gloss over all this.

You ALMOST had me talked into it. But you can't explain the most simple of things. This "neighborhood" sounds like your scum chat, which is why you wouldnt want to out the final person im sure.

No just a lightning rod. And if DV targeted Shoshin and Shoshin is the lightning rod it is still possible or if all actions were redirected to Shoshin

The fact of the matter is I was either protected twice or there is a lightning rod or you are a liar

[Commander Shepard]

The only way Vax is truth telling is if there is a lightning rod.

So according to you scum have a lighting rod and a doc, cause that would be the only way to survive. What about everyone else? Shouldn't our cops have got back scum results? It looks like peopel have more ability's, were any of them fucked with?

Like you explain it like its as simple as a lighting rod explain everyone. Just one role. No a lighting rod messes with EVERYONE and we would see its effects everywhere!

You just want to gloss over all this.

You ALMOST had me talked into it. But you can't explain the most simple of things. This "neighborhood" sounds like your scum chat, which is why you wouldnt want to out the final person im sure.

Hence why I have been asking whether it is possible for a few damn RL days now

And I am really skiddish

That the only people who can discount my theory are DV and Shoshin

Both of whom I have been FoSing the entire time.

[Commander Shepard]

There's three cops?

Why would there be three cops?

MariaR and Fire. Who would be three?

Pedit if someone who has a snowballs chance in hell asks or they out themselves it is fine

Sure as hell not outing the third when scum ask.

[Commander Shepard]

Shepard, your role suggests there's an SK? If so, why don't you believe that one of Pun or Vax is SK?

....It doesn’t say SK directly.

However I have had an FoS on punreader being the SK the whole time. Hence part of the reason I asked them to shoot me. The other is my role.

Pedit because I asked to try to save a mislynch:

[Commander Shepard]

Why the fuck would you ask someone to shoot you?

To prevent my mislynch.

Town mislynching me today wouldn’t do anything protown.

So vigging me would save a mislynch and confirm punreader as not group scum which would flag them as an SK

[Commander Shepard]

Why the fuck would you ask someone to shoot you?

Asked and he said it was answered (its not)

Yes it fucking has been multiple times

[Commander Shepard]

So, let me get this straight.

Shepard asks Pun to shoot him.

Pun obliges.

Vax also shoots Shepard.

Shepard somehow lives.

Is there a role that would allow Shepard to live when shot twice?

That’s where I got the idea lightning rod

Because I originally couldn’t think of anything.

But then why isn’t Shoshin dead?

Something is very wrong here.

[Commander Shepard]

Why the fuck would you ask someone to shoot you?

To prevent my mislynch.

Town mislynching me today wouldn’t do anything protown.

So vigging me would save a mislynch and confirm punreader as not group scum which would flag them as an SK

I don't believe this.

Have you ever done this as town before?

Never have had a PT before vig a vig while being widely misread so no

Brb

[Commander Shepard]

Did anyone protect Shepard?

If someone protected me after I asked to die I am gonna cry

[Commander Shepard]

What's Pun's role again? He's bulletproof and vig?

Semi conditional BP vig is what he said

Above is one way below is another I forget which

[Commander Shepard]

What's Pun's role again? He's bulletproof and vig?

Semi conditional BP vig is what they said

Above is one way below is another I forget which

Whoops sorry

[Commander Shepard]

let's do thisssssssss

scores are approximate since the double-weighted scores are not an exact doubling of themselves (evidenced by Pine's slot; to get his average he'd have needed a 0 from Reuben/Lovebird which we know is not correct).
even so these are probably close enough to the actual scores that I'm feeling comfortable.

Position	Name	Rank
1st	Chara	8.29
2nd	the worst	7.19
3rd	Taly	6.71
4th	TehBrawlGuy	6.29
5th	Dunnstral	6.25
6th	Punreader	6.06
7th	Nahdia	6.00
8th	DeasVail	5.56
9th	Espeonage	5.56
10th	Shoshin	5.44
11th	MariaR	5.38
12th	Pine	4.94
13th	ManWithNoName	4.75
14th	Fire Assassin	4.71
15th	Vaxkiller	4.13
16th	PenguinPower	4.06
17th	Lovebird	2.00
18th	NicoRobin	1.63

Spoiler: data tabled (more #aesthetic than useful but....fight me)

X axis : receiver of score
Y axis : giver of score

	RECEIVER
GIVER	TehBrawlGuy	Taly	Punreader	MariaR	DeasVail	Espeonage	Dunnstral	Nahdia	the worst	Pine	Shoshin	Fire Assassin	Lovebird	Chara	ManWithNoName	Vaxkiller	PenguinPower	NicoRobin
TehBrawlGuy	10	1	10	8	5	0	9	6	2	10	7	4	5	6	3	4	0	0
Taly	5	10	10	6	6	0	2	4	9	5	8	1	3	10	7	0	0	4
Punreader	0	10	10	6	4	6	9	8	5	0	7	5	2	10	1	4	0	3
MariaR	9	4	10	10	5	10	5	0	8	2	4	3	0	6	6	1	7	0
DeasVail	3	10	10	0	10	2	4	5	9	4	8	5	1	6	7	6	0	0
Espeonage	9	8	4	5	6	10	10	4	7	0	3	0	1	5	2	10	6	0
Dunnstral	2	9	7	6	4	8	10	5	5	4	3	10	0	10	6	0	1	0
Nahdia	4	5	10	3	5	6	2	10	7	4	6	9	1	10	0	0	8	0
the worst	6	10	5	8	6	9	2	7	10	4	3	1	0	10	0	4	5	0
Pine	10	9	0					0		10		8		10			0
Shoshin	8	10	5	0	6	3	6	4	9	1	10	2	0	10	7	5	0	4
Fire Assassin	8	2	3	9	5	0	4	10	7	4	6	10	1	10	6	0	4	0
Lovebird
Chara	10	10	8	6	5	4	5	9	7	0	6	4	3	10	0	0	2	1
ManWithNoName	10	10	4	1	0	0	6	5	7	4	8	5	3	9	10	6	0	2
Vaxkiller	0	0	7	0	6	4	2	10	5	10	4	9	5	3	6	10	8	1
PenguinPower	9	0	0	10	8	7	10	3	6	2	4	4	5	0	5	6	10	1
NicoRobin	4	6	0	8	8	20	14	12	12	20	0	0	2	16	10	10	18	10
	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE	AVERAGE
	6.29	6.71	6.06	5.38	5.56	5.56	6.25	6.00	7.19	4.94	5.44	4.71	2.00	8.29	4.75	4.13	4.06	1.63
	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS	TENS
	4	7	6	2	1	3	3	3	1	4	1	2	0	9	2	3	1	1
	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES	ZEROES
	2	2	3	3	1	4	0	2	0	3	1	2	4	1	3	5	7	8
unaccounted votes	1	1	1	2	2	2	2	1	2	1	2	1	2	1	2	2	1	2
unaccounted points	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	0	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	11
av. unacc. score	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	0	???	???	???	???	???	???	???	5.5

According to this yes? But we are close

@Vax they modified it to be what I said they said something else at the start

[Commander Shepard]

Why'd TBG die?

Guessing scum shot them?

So if Shoshin and Vax are lying and scum Lightning rodded that makes sense
If Vax is scum who shot me and used a universal kill doc on me to create chaos or just outright lying

But it looks like the people I am scumreading are indeed scum.

[Commander Shepard]

Shepard, any reason we should believe you over believing that you're scum who got caught lying about his role?

Because we have two choices

One of which is we mislynch me and then you have to.

Or you just do.

Especially since Dunnstral is in that damn hood and can back up the fact I asked to die
Then there was the whole I crumbed it

Not dying after crumbing you would die is a stupid scum move

Who here thinks I am stupid as scum?

[Commander Shepard]

There were 2 kills right? So how do you exaplin lighting rod again?

lol...

One was Taly would was delayed scum kill probably

Second is probably scum.

Like Vax and Shoshin and ManWithNoName aggro me to get me to post for pages.

[Commander Shepard]

Like strong willed kill explains why cops aren’t dead it just fits.

But only if Shoshin is scum so we have circled back to me v Shoshin damn it.

[Commander Shepard]

Is there a role that would allow Shepard to live when shot twice?

commuter
hider
full mafia bulletproof

Or ya know
Punreader blocked and Vax is a liar

I will be out all day y’all.

Like Shoshin and Vax are obvious

[Commander Shepard]

You’d know if DV actually visited you.

[Commander Shepard]

Gonna be busy with an away mission deadline most if not all of today.

[Commander Shepard]

Prod dodge sorry some food I had in the mess hall is not agreeing with me.

[Commander Shepard]

i dont

want

to have to prod people

Like holyshit.

Where the fuck is everyone?

[Commander Shepard]

I'm not sure what else to say at this point in the game.

I still think Shepard's the best lynch today.

Shoshin

Let’s assume for a second we have played together.

Let’s assume for a second you don’t think I am terrible as scum.

It’s confirmed there are two cop claims a vig claim and an inno all going into night.

If you truly believe I am scum then why the fuck would I leave all of that open?

And on top of that shift all attention to myself the next day intentionally. I work best as scum when universally townread.

Now why would scum!me make what looks to be a dumb kill and before night ends beg to die?

I am not stupid. People voting me have 0 respect for my scum game. And right now that kill points to inexperienced or inactive scum.

[Commander Shepard]

I'm not sure what else to say at this point in the game.

I still think Shepard's the best lynch today.

Shoshin

Let’s assume for a second we have played together.

Let’s assume for a second you don’t think I am terrible as scum.

It’s confirmed there are two cop claims a vig claim and an inno all going into night.

If you truly believe I am scum then why the fuck would I leave all of that open?

And on top of that shift all attention to myself the next day intentionally. I work best as scum when universally townread.

Now why would scum!me make what looks to be a dumb kill and before night ends beg to die?

I am not stupid. People voting me have 0 respect for my scum game. And right now that kill points to inexperienced or inactive scum.

What would you have done as scum after replacing your slot? What's your plan to get universally townread?

I would have been very appealing towards people who have wrong reads for the right reasons. I would make some townie with atrocious reads the town leader. Take a look at Shadowrun. I took my slot which was a bit suspected due to a single misspeak (not slip mind you as it could have come from town) and buddied the only person alive who heard it and the doctor to always navigate around protects. In Gistou my advice single handedly slaughtered the other scum team in one night due to town kills and I was strongman vigged for never being able to be lynched because so townie. I was so Townie mastina (who is awesome and I only say this to make a point not to attack someone who isn’t here) made a mod mistake and gave someone an investigative result of my fake claim and I wasn’t suspected. They started attacking each other.

Scum is much easier when other townies do the mislynching for you. Then you just let the narrative write itself.

In this case I am trying to figure out this game. Find me someone I have been buddy buddy towards. You fucking can’t.

[Commander Shepard]

And fuck I just outed my alts damn it

I am MathBlade/OnTheMark.

Fuck :/