NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[the worst]

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[davesaz]

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[davesaz]

I'm gonna give you some self-meta, calmly and relatively gently.
It represents RL information and consequently is the truth.

I play as myself. This is not a persona, no mask, no fake outrage or ignorance, nada. It's actually unfiltered me.
I don't jump to conclusions. Jumping to conclusions can cause serious damage. I do make intuitive leaps but I don't put things on the line based on mere intuition.
I don't make stuff up -- no fake claims or fake results from me. I may occasionally exaggerate to make a point but I won't go all-out on said exaggeration.
If you're innocent I'm the guy you want on your jury. The facts have to make sense before I'll vote guilty.
If you're the prosecutor on a guilty defendant and at least minimally competent, I'm the guy you want on your jury. If the facts prove your case, I won't allow the guilty to walk.

When I'm scum and thus forced to lie, I'm painfully bad at lying. The reason I play is to get better at it. And to get better at detecting lies from others.

There you go, the plain unvarnished truth about me. It really upsets me a lot that site meta pretty much forces people to scumread me for it. I'm the opposite of site meta -- being careful is being me, not being scummy.

[davesaz]

You're going to maintain the assertion that you've given thoughts on Sky?

VOTE: Skygazer

I feel like the description of raskol's NL vote as "LAMIST" is probably the scummiest thing in the thread so far.

Yes I will. The above still applies for me.

That's an acceptable answer, but not a strong one.
Have there been scummier things since? That post was a very long time ago. In your later post you didn't reflect any potential changes in Skygazer which might either reinforce or soften the opinion.

I have an opinion about Skygazer. If I tell you what my opinion is before I trust your opinion, I'll give you information you can use to make your opinion match mine. Since I know my alignment is town and don't know yours, it plays to my wincon to challenge your opinion to see if it's well-founded or not.

[dramonic]

That is one really opaque attempt at appearing transparent

vote:davesaz

Eventually ill get a moment to sit down and review the whole game but in the meantime I dont remember where my vote was

[xyzzy]

it feels genuine to me but idk I don't feel confident about that

[dramonic]

Im not saying it aint genuine, im saying it's a lot of word that means very little and have nothing to do with the game.

The whole line of "Im bad at lying and am thus town" is such an easy cop-out

[davesaz]

That's a misrepresentation of what I said.
What I said is that one of the reasons I play mafia at all is that I'm bad at lying. (the other being that I'm damn good at solving logic puzzles, if people were just acting a little more logical)

[davesaz]

Suggesting that I'm less than genuine is a good way to really piss me off. That was one of the other points of the post.

[Flubbernugget]

Im not saying it aint genuine, im saying it's a lot of word that means very little and have nothing to do with the game.

The whole line of "Im bad at lying and am thus town" is such an easy cop-out

It's tangential to my case at the very least (sorry idr the other ones but the fact that nobody on this wagon is sheeping is probably a good thing)

[davesaz]

There is absolutely nothing tangential about it.
I'm flat out saying that I don't have an opinion yet.

[davesaz]

Firm opinion...

[profii]

Im not saying it aint genuine, im saying it's a lot of word that means very little and have nothing to do with the game.

The whole line of "Im bad at lying and am thus town" is such an easy cop-out

Not sure “thus town” was explicitly stated, however I am not sure what conclusion we are supposed to draw other than that

[dramonic]

Good scum doesn't really need to lie. You can be scum and genuinely scumread someone who you know isn't on your team for many legitimate reasons. Hell, you can spend the entirety of a game crusading for your own buddy's lynch and get through the game without lying that way.

"I play as myself", "I don't make stuff up" and lines like that are all fine and dandy but they give nothing. Nobody plays as someone else (besides being chiller here than usual), and you're not expected to make stuff up. That's like saying "I have opinions". So does everyone else in the game.

Couple that with 603 (not a post tag but its 3 posts up, sue me) that is super vaguely shading Ausuka and non-committal. "It's an okay answer, but roll again and you might earn a townread!" (Paraphrase) just rings like bull to me. It's keeping the back door wide open to swing a read either way. Same for the whole "I have a secret opinion that ill only share after I hear yours cuz you might echo me". That applies to literally any read at any point in any game by any player.
Everyone claims to be town and therefore know their own read to be genuine, that doesn't mean you can cop out of giving your own first. Your self-read is no stronger than anyone else's.


...Hopefully that wasn't not chill.

Tbf, if you take offense to being told your post/approach doesn't sound genuine in a game built around fooling people it might be good to step back. You are not what you say on here. Im not saying you aren't genuine as a person, and I'm sure most of your 602 comes from the heart.
But I AM saying that scum-you has a heart too.

[dramonic]

Lotsa ninjas to 603 is no longer 3 posts up.
Yall are butts

[dramonic]

"You are not what you say on here" is meant as "you are not defined by what you say on here", not as "You are not who you claim to be"
Just realized that can be twisted waaaaaay hard .-.

[HitAlt]

Interesting.
I added dave to that honeypot of mine mainly to round it up nicely with Chick and Sky. But it seems I had a good hunch there too.
We lynch SkyGrazer today,

and if they flip town

, you just go see my ISO and find the post where I said there's scum already in the wagon.
More or less guaranteed.

[HitAlt]

I'm gonna give you some self-meta, calmly and relatively gently.

While I think you are scum here, I also think you wrote this more or less from the heart.

Outside of this game: You have no need to take peoples reads on you personally.
I do not know you on a personal level, but I have seen and played with you enough to say that I really have no trouble believing you are a very honest person.
A person with high moral standards.
I also know it can suck that the sites meta (and the overall direction it might be evolving towards) is not in your favor or to your liking.
I've "lost" many a pastime and community over the years simply because I either couldn't or simply wouldn't adapt to the changes that came with the times.

I'm not sure why I wrote all this, but I hope you don't feel bad about people scumreading you.

[davesaz]

replace out -- mean it this time

I'm done with mafia.

[davesaz]

That's strictly a health thing btw. Sorry Pine, I'm old and I don't like the physical effects of raging any more.

[brassherald]

@Hitalt, what are your feelings on dramonic after the interactions just now with davesaz?

[dramonic]

Was I not chill?

[Andrius]

Spoiler: Inferno

A. The point of the spoiler is to hide my massive catch-up wall since that's how I replace into ALL games and I need to keep track of my thoughts, especially in 100 page games where I forget what I thought pages or days ago. I hid it so people don't have to read it if they don't want to, but I need it to function.
B. There's no trend. There's a good bloc of people I wish would post more and some I wish would post less since they're not doing much despite saying alot. Though admittedly it got you to talk game stuff so that's a win.
C. The fact that you're in the higher bracket of posters in terms of volume but I don't have a solid read on you. More posts means nothing if they're any of [non-game related, fluff, etc]. Not saying yours all are but in general.
D. You're in the top three. Enough said.
E. Not much to elaborate on. I'd have to reread them (again) but I'm hoping to get some more game content going and get them talking and make new stuff instead of evaluating y'alls earlygame which is a headache.
F. You and Rask look worst because Ausuka is one of the champions of the wagon.

I wouldn't call it non-committal. I tend to be very biased, come off very strong, and very quickly form (at least in my mind) a solid townbloc and scumbloc and then just proceed to seek the latter's destruction and the former's preservation. I'm The Paladin for a reason. XD
The problem with Profii is alot of early game posting with little substance inflates the postcount and makes it so, a few days in, they have alot of posts but little content and little useful to find out their alignment. Being nice and chatty is one thing, but actually solving the game is another issue. Magna is an old friend who I have a healthy amount of respect for both as a person and as a player. He's wearing the DON CORLEONE tag for a reason - he's a GODZILLA of a player and is a threat to scumteams as town and the bane of towns as scum. We were scumbuddies in THE THING MAFIA where he got both his avatar and his Scummy from. He has a solid play and isn't someone I can meta reliably as his play is, in my mind, stable across alignments and across the board. Its more of a long-term thing, at least on my end. I'm told I'm one of the more easily readable people around as far as I'm concerned.

I'm glad we're talking. This is how we correct bad reads and progress.

The question is whether Ausuka was pursuing other reads at all. My impression – she was and is.

I'd feel better if she let us in on who they are.

@Inferno – While you may not understand Andy and my history it would be very suspect if he wasn’t cagey about trusting me this early. We’ve played many games together and he’s firsthand seen my scum game from both sides of the fence enough to have a healthy paranoia Day1. He was one of the partners in the game that won me this banner. If you want an entertaining story ask him about Black Lanterns. In fact if he (who knows me better than I think the rest of the game combined) was solid on me as Town right now I’d think he was scum trying to buddy me. So feel free to prod on Flubber and Profii and others but don’t expect anything solid out of him on me until at least tomorrow.

I wouldn't call it paranoia, so much as healthy respect for your game, as we both know what you're capable of you walking Thingzilla. XD
To be fair, the Black Lantern game netted me a scummy and we were sorta buds, and The Thing won you a scummy and we were buds so clearly we've got something going on.

@Andrius: On Ausuka, I’m not really impressed with her posting. Most of her contributions have actually been defending Profii and your slot. There’s not a lot of reads of her own in there or original thoughts in terms of hunting. She’s really just sheeping on her wagons rn.

She hasn't posted yet (at of this post) so maybe she's just away but, yes, I have noticed and its a solid wagon to sit on given it was started by Thingzilla.

Skygazer, what do you like about my big catchup post? Because you said you liked the post but there's alot there and seems like a big blanket over alot of junk.

Thanks ^.^ I like the game too ofc, except Lucca is my favourite character instead of Magus

Ayla and Magus are my favorites. I recently got the Chrono Trigger DS to try and play it again but the game's glitched and it just STOPS when you first go back in time in Leene Market. ;___;

Skygazer got a wagon so a vote there was more useful. I honestly suspect them both roughly equally.

I think my issue with what you pointed out about HitAlt is that its such a throwaway comment that's not directly about the game. More like 'what is your meta' which gives the appearance of questioning you without real game purpose. And so far there's been little follow-up so.

I tried to do a thing. Like a honey thing.
With a scumread who I also thought might be a lynchbait.
So I'd say we lynch there today, and if it flips town, we almost know there's scum in the wagon as of now.

I read your words but do not understand.

Spoiler: xyzzy

479 - I don't like this HitAlt post very much. it's literally the only time they've referenced any of these users at all. I can't really comment on the quality of this group as a potential scum team, but I dislike posts that declare a bunch of players to be scum together with literally no supporting evidence given.

THANK YOU <3

514 - yeah I don't feel great about the Skygazer wagon b/c most of the people on it haven't really offered any actual justification for their votes

YEP
Granted we need wagons to pressure but yes I agree.
Fair.

576 - a lot of these points feel like Inferno390 is willfully misinterpreting Andrius' post.

Honestly my gut read was more of 'kid puts on a serious face to talk to adult who's calling him out'. No offense to Inferno but suddenly he got REAL HEAD IN THE GAME. Granted I'm biased since I'm a participant but I didn't get misinterpreting so much as like 'hey ill rise to the callout'.

Really dislike how HitAlt comes back and gets a townread on Ausuka from meta, and then goes on his vague little 'im doing some teehee stuff'.


At the risk of further escalating the situation, yeah, a bunch of self-meta doesn't REALLY help anything in-game but is useful to know for other stuff. We're good, davesaz. We're good.

Interesting.
I added dave to that honeypot of mine mainly to round it up nicely with Chick and Sky. But it seems I had a good hunch there too.
We lynch SkyGrazer today,

and if they flip town

, you just go see my ISO and find the post where I said there's scum already in the wagon.
More or less guaranteed.

Nah I'm not really feeling a SkyGazer lynch.
Rather lynch you or Rask atm ngl.

Speaking of Chickadee I do miss her though.

[Andrius]

Magna.
Plum's birthday is today.
Man that brings me back YEARS on this site. :c

[Inferno390]

Hey all! Recovering from surgery pretty well, so I’m popping in to catch up and try and to some solving. I’m on mobile again tho, so bear with.

Interesting.
I added dave to that honeypot of mine mainly to round it up nicely with Chick and Sky. But it seems I had a good hunch there too.
We lynch SkyGrazer today,

and if they flip town

, you just go see my ISO and find the post where I said there's scum already in the wagon.
More or less guaranteed.

dramonic, you mentioned something about leaving back doors open. What do you think of this?