Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gustavo]

do you think shoshin and gamma are scum together, y/n?

@gustavo for like the third time

Idk

[brassherald]

"I was never President."

Votecount 1.16

Gamma Emerald(4)

~ Mathdino, Shoshin, Not_Mafia, Gustavo

Momrangal(3)

~ skitter30, Nauci, Bernie Sanders

Bernie Sanders(2)

~ Keyser Söze, Momrangal

the worst(1)

~ Gamma Emerald


Not Voting (3): Errantparabola, the worst, Irrelephant11

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-04 17:10:00)

[Nauci]

yeah but why are you asking me to remove context from my reads on people? :/

That's a dumb misrep and is not what I said at all. >:C

I'll take heed of others' opinions on that post but I think you're susceptible to pocketing so you'd have to find other posts from her you like for me to take your viewpoint into serious consideration for my read

[the worst]

794 and surrounding were solid af fmpov. like I am not a fan of how I was positioned as scum for my predecessor and irl busyness here. it crossed my mind several times that I was an easy af push for scum to hide behind, and I found Mom seeing things exactly the same way.

either she's town or has me pocketed hard but I'm not sure what scum!Mom's method is in WKing me here

I kinda feel like I've already addressed this fam :<
not really seeing the scum motivation there. like sure if we get some flips I'm always open to reconsidering my reads but I'm not currently seeing a reason to knock her down?

[Nauci]

TW I'm literally agreeing with your post there. It's not an attack to say you could have been pocketed there; it was an affirmation to that exact sentiment.

--

Hhmmm a brief analysis of the Gamma wagon and it looks pretty bizarre.

Not_Mafia empty vote
Mathdino vote w/o much explanation back on page 30
Gus voting largely because Gamma didn't vote anyone for a really long time (which isn't AI IMO). Gus unvoted because his scum read (Shosh) voted Gamma, but then put it back, and hasn't answered "do you think Gamma and Shosh are scum together" yet
Former Bernie Sanders vote basically because lack of engagement (just before the time of the vote) and POE
Shoshin blank vote - I ctrl-F'ed gamma in Shoshin's ISO and could find almost no interactions/comments on Gamma, but a lot of "X, what's your read on Gamma" and posts with gamma as a subject but not target

The Worst's for-all-intents-and-purposes -1 vote on hold actually has somewhat of a case (refusal to engage, and something about shading people in the post about activity)
Irrelephant w/ intent to hammer with a case - "He definitely hasn’t been super helpful, and in his last dozen/two dozen posts he fees less like town trying to help make his own lynch worthwhile and more like scum trying to hide associatives"

I didn't take time to think about the wagon because I had Gamma in my "yeah I'd be down w/ a lynch there" but not my "let's poke it and see if it hurts" pile, and I regret that. Me feeling like it's justified to lynch someone should not let people push for that lynch w/o declaring thought processes, so:

@Shoshin why do you prefer a Gamma lynch?

@Irrelephant Did what you referred to as "my reason for ever having a townread will either be proven or disproven before the lynch goes through" happen? Are you still waiting for it to? Can you explain what you meant?

Need to hear Gus's answer and responses from the prods too. There's way less info to be gained from this than I was under the impression of.

God I just cannot seem to shake this gut sense that it's irrelephant/momrangal + any 1 of {math, not_mafia, the worst, or even Shoshin) but I really haven't had time to formulate that hunch into line items. If I'm available before hammer tomorrow/Monday I will try to write up an exploration of that gut fear. It's 5:30 AM

inb4 I stay up the rest of the morning ISOing because this mind itch is too much

[Not_Mafia]

Hamma Emerald

[the worst]

get some sleep Nauci <3

[Nauci]

Your command is my wish

[the worst]

good call

[Nauci]

I voted nauci for a # of reasons, none of which are stated and one of said reasons are I'm itching for EoD and top two TRs are/were strongly advocating it

Wait am I reading this correctly

Because this looked like a super blatant admission of opportunistic wagon voting to push any (mis)lynch?

No, just you.

There are many people I wouldn't vote under any circumstance.

You're null, always have been

I think several mom posts sounded kinda town but a few pinged me

Like the original quoted post here which seemed to say she was voting me as an easy sheep to end the day which looked blatantly opportunistic.

The response seems to be saying no, she wouldn't be opportunistically voting *any* wagon to secure a (mis)lynch, only me, but declares I've always been null. I mean I'm getting wifom in that scum wouldn't just announce blatant mislynch opportunistic voting this way, right? Idk I'm so confused by this one

[Nauci]

Mom, what's your current read on Gamma?

I'm hung up on it.

Gamma is not town, and makes sense as scum but at the same time something doesn't feel right.

Wagon comp could be better and I may be hung up on the fact that Bernie is on there. It doesn't seem like much of a bus placement but in my mind, both Bernie and gamma have decent chance of flipping scum but I don't see much associations between them.

That aside, I feel like gamma has been getting a little bit more engaged and I don't want to discourage that especially when I think I see some probing I don't remember coming from scum gamma

Huh this post makes me feel better about momrangal, because I'm now seeing that "something doesn't feel right" about the gamma wagon...

Hmm.

UNVOTE:

[Shoshin]

Gamma's scum because he's not scumhunting and because everyone else is more town.

[Gustavo]

hasn't answered "do you think Gamma and Shosh are scum together" yet

Yes I have.

[Gustavo]

Hamma Emerald

[Irrelephant11]

Okay you have to admit that it's reasonable for me to question if your townread on her is worth its salt if the post was defending you, regardless of the rest of the context, right?

Irrelephant11/TW/whomever else was planning to hammer: can we wait to see if Math/NM respond to prods in time? Which is a minimum of 12 hours from now, I think

First question pings me a ton

Yeah definitely, as long as we leave a little time for potential claiming/wagon switching

Also my towntell on Gamma has not been affirmed or refuted by anything since. Still pretty sure it’ll happen or not happen soon tho

[Gamma Emerald]

What do you think of {mathdino, tw, nm}, especially compared to other times you've seen them? In addition, are there any people you'd like me to reconsider my read on?

Duck.

Also, NM posted like, once? I feel like I remember him posting alot more as town and I expected him to make a bigger entrance here now that you've brought him up.

I actually townread math which IDK how to really take considering I usually scumread him regardless of his alignment. Objectively speaking, though and in a vacuum everything he's done is straight null alignment wise. Nothing he's done is outside his range of play as scum but I have a gut feeling that he isn't here, and it may be his progression.

Duck, I've stated my thoughts on him multiple times, and I am not really seeing the lack of spirit that everyone else seems to see. I don't think he's played like he did when he was scum though this fade is a little weird, but I think it's entirely plausible that this game may have slipped his mind. I also see him as town based off something that I don't really want to talk about

Eh I guess you may have a point on the worst UNVOTE:
idk if NM would be more or less active as scum though

[Gamma Emerald]

Still definitely want to keep talking with Gustavo

About what? I’m here.

Well I want to continue our dialogue wrt shoshin, but in addition I want to know what you make of the stall that happened

[Gamma Emerald]

A lot more engagement how? If I need to be more engaged, what the fuck do you want from me? If others need to be more engaged with me that's placing the burden of removing the scumread on other people which isn't fair to me because regardless of what I do if no one else does what you want "oh no one is engaging with him, SCUM!!!!"

Doing quick activity checks to determine if anyone could be scum due to the stall
Mathdino hasn't posted since posting here
Not_Mafia has DEFINITELY been active elsewhere, thinking this might actually be mafia
the worst has been active elsewhere, plus despite being bored at one point has not tried to engage since then, probably scum
Shoshin has been very active in one other game, this might be passable but still sketchy
VOTE: the worst
Still definitely want to keep talking with Gustavo but he's actually provided signs that he's not bsing so I don't like the vote as much, and given the compilation of things against the worst I think he's the best vote rn

VOTE: Gamma

scum with 1+ of the other people he's shaded in 1294.

UNVOTE:

L-2 for ^ this while I catch up proper

this doesn't make you look any better
this means you reacted to my vote with OMGUS before catching up

[Gamma Emerald]

also Gamma has watched scum!me and knows lurking is not scum indicative for me.

I've had a serious week sorting out some career stuff irl. also slightly overgamed. I've been slacking in games I'm less invested in (not elaborating obviously).

the dude literally knows I do not actively make the decision to lurk as scum, so I do not know why he's pushing that angle. >.>

ok fine. I guess that's understandable.

[Gustavo]

Still definitely want to keep talking with Gustavo

About what? I’m here.

Well I want to continue our dialogue wrt shoshin, but in addition I want to know what you make of the stall that happened

I have no interest in talking about shoshin. I’m not sure what stall people are talking about. It seems that people continue to lurk or be inactive.

[Gamma Emerald]

Woo I'm glad 3 hours of obsessive Google Sheetsing was helpful

Quick notes:

-Dislike Gus calling for early end of day w/ so many people not posting
-Gamma we can't just keep playing the "I don't think you've made many town posts if at all" vs "WHAT DO YOU MEAN THERE'S NOT ENOUGH WHY ISN'T THERE ENOUGH WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME" game because that's definitely not town posting
-Gamma's questions post felt like pretty surface level questions idk
-Irrelephant sorry I missed the earlier question; I realize that we were out of RVS pretty quickly but I didn't recall anything particularly meaty happening for a few more pages (I didn't think Shosh/Math interaction was meaningful, but the fallout from it was), but 5 was just an approximation.

I need to find time for an ISO but I just haven't gotten the town vibes from momrangal that apparently over half the game has gotten. Can anyone explain their gut feel? I've read some of the individual posts about it but haven't felt convinced at all and am sad that we haven't wanted to explore that at all. I think there's enough room left in the game to pressure a couple of other people.

Also going to set aside time to look at the vote stuff I assembled and see if anything jumps out at me as a result of it. I was too focused on putting it together to actually parse it but no time yet :/

I'm actually done fussing about how you're reading me

if Mom's scum I think she'd have voted town Gamma already.

I think this is kinda sensible since there's a whole lot of reason she's given to vote me and yet she's waffled the whole time
it's a lot of work to look a little town if she's scum

[Gamma Emerald]

Hamma Emerald

Mathdino/the worst, talk to me here: what do you make of NM's activity this game?

[Gamma Emerald]

Gamma's scum because he's not scumhunting and because everyone else is more town.

BULLSHIT
Mind telling the class how none of what I've been doing is scumhunting?

[Gamma Emerald]

Still definitely want to keep talking with Gustavo

About what? I’m here.

Well I want to continue our dialogue wrt shoshin, but in addition I want to know what you make of the stall that happened

I have no interest in talking about shoshin. I’m not sure what stall people are talking about. It seems that people continue to lurk or be inactive.

brass (the mod) made a post stating no one had voted since last VC and there hadn't been a new page
which was a serious drop in activity from the rest of the game
as such I had to conclude a stall had happened

[Gustavo]

People are probably bored like I am. I called for the day to end a while back. We just need to end it. The stall could be because you are scum and it’s mostly town on it, or you are town and it’s scum led.

Who knows