Mini Normal 2016 | Otters vs. Penguins | Endgame

[Nosferatu]

garmr is literally conf town which kinda sucks but tchill's wagon behavior has been transparently scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Garmr, TChill is a much more valuable asset to town if he is town.

I would much rather be wrong on Nos than wrong on TChill. Also, I don't think there is a chance in hell that Nos flips green.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Votecount 2.08

Nosferatu

(5): Tommy Egan, Gosrir Elmer Odels, Tchill13, Aristophanes, Ircher

Tommy Egan

(4): BlueBloodedToffee, wavemode, Nosferatu, teacher

Performer

(2): Garmr, Not_Mafia

Garmr

(1): Performer

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2018-07-05 09:00:00)

Mod Notes:

• Performer V/LA on weekends
• teacher V/LA on weekends

I'm gonna go ahead and leave this right here. In work atm, but want to talk about this more when I get home.

There were at least 3 counter wagons to Nos yesterday - teacher, Garmr and Tommy. Why where there so many counter wagons?

[Garmr]

Garmr, TChill is a much more valuable asset to town if he is town.

I would much rather be wrong on Nos than wrong on TChill. Also, I don't think there is a chance in hell that Nos flips green.

If he scum (which he is) he is a more valuable asset to them.

[Performer]

As d2 progressed, Garm started sounding off due to the tone of his posts and the big push on nos on d2. And as I said before, nos/garm & geo/tommy - I believe are unlikely the same alignments.


I have nos as tr from the nos v garm long debate. Still don't think garm is town.
VOTE: garm

Chill quit changing your voting to anyone other than garm! Also, you've seen my scum game already and I'm not even scum in this game.
I have a good idea of where the 2nd partner is and possibly the 3rd, but that should be a conversation for another day.
-----------
@bbt what are you talking about? How were teacher, garm, & tommy the counterwagons based on that vca you posted?...

[Performer]

If garmr was jail kept then wouldn't this mean he was the scum that's was supposed to kill? How the hell would that clear him? He just hopped on that and tried to get town cred really quick.

I'm telling you. Bbt and garmr. Write it down lock it in. I'll walk through it with anybody.

Garm's talk about being jailkept was just too weird to me. If he's town, which I don't believe he is, it doesn't make sense for him to post that.

Mod: did Ircher know who Byron Jailkept?

. I see some crumbs but want to make sure.

I didn't see any breadcrumbing whatsoever
also I don't think the mod can answer that but I do hope he at least let ircher know who byron jailkept on n1
Speaking of that, I just thought of something - I should review byron & ircher's ISOs for clues on who they jailkept on n1. That could be very helpful.

Ari is probably town for this aloofness

Man...you & ari had such good predecessors on d2 & d1. Towned up your slots . Otherwise I'd probably be against you two by now

[Garmr]

Oh so when I called people up for reasoning yesterday you offered none kinda took you a week or two to pull up a half assed reason so lets break it down.

As d2 progressed,

Garm started sounding off due to the tone of his posts and the big push on nos on d2.

And as I said before, nos/garm & geo/tommy - I believe are unlikely the same alignments.


I have nos as tr from the nos v garm long debate. Still don't think garm is town.
VOTE: garm

Chill quit changing your voting to anyone other than garm!

Also, you've seen my scum game already and I'm not even scum in this game.
I have a good idea of where the 2nd partner is and possibly the 3rd, but that should be a conversation for another day.
-----------
@bbt what are you talking about? How were teacher, garm, & tommy the counterwagons based on that vca you posted?...

-So what in my tone sounded scummy to (since tone is a generic statement which scum could use) and what in my argument was scum motivated. Also what was my motivation to keep pushing hard after I got a bunch of town reads on myself from town me. Seriously these are just blanket statements I could use for anyone in this game. Also if my push on nos made me null why did you sheep my case?

-Also why do you overlook the fact me and nos may be a town v town. You seem to keep pushing that I must be a opposite alignment from him. You should be experienced enough to know by now that town are just as likely to push other town really hard even if you dislike the reasons. Tchill is a bit more forgivable because his newer. But you aren't a newb or a village idiot so you should take everything in consideration.

-Also saying I think these people may be scum but I'm not saving them for another day is pretty shite. Because if I get lynched and flip town you can just pretend they aren't scum reads if they even exist in the first place and shrug it off. Town should be afraid that their scum reads won't get lynched as they might be the night kill. It comes off as you feel like you won't NKed.

Coaching

[Garmr]

If garmr was jail kept then wouldn't this mean he was the scum that's was supposed to kill? How the hell would that clear him? He just hopped on that and tried to get town cred really quick.

I'm telling you. Bbt and garmr. Write it down lock it in. I'll walk through it with anybody.

Garm's talk about being jailkept was just too weird to me. If he's town, which I don't believe he is, it doesn't make sense for him to post that.

Mod: did Ircher know who Byron Jailkept?

. I see some crumbs but want to make sure.

I didn't see any breadcrumbing whatsoever
also I don't think the mod can answer that but I do hope he at least let ircher know who byron jailkept on n1

Speaking of that, I just thought of something - I should review byron & ircher's ISOs for clues on who they jailkept on n1. That could be very helpful.

Ari is probably town for this aloofness

Man...you & ari had such good predecessors on d2 & d1. Towned up your slots . Otherwise I'd probably be against you two by now

Literally quotes breadcrumbs in my post showing you read it. Also other players seemed to pick up on it easily. So you should know this and should of checked them yourself before posting this post. Also there's plenty of reasons a town may think it especially with crumbs. Just you don't want to state any of them so you can reach to try and get the appearance of having a point.

The amount of intellectual dishonesty in this post is high.

[Garmr]

Seriously these are just blanket statements

When I said this I meant your statements.

[Performer]

I actually didn't see any crumbs . Teacher bringing it up, could be a town sign. So, that's why I thought of looking into their ISOs - could help reads for instance.

I'm curious to hear what geo and wave have to say

@garm what's your read of geo?

[Performer]

Iirc Your push on nos made you null to me and longer tr. Later you continued it, and his response looked genuine tr reaction. So, therefore the read on you changed.

[Performer]

Yeah there's nothing in their ISOs that makes me think they're crumbing. Judging by the way bbt v byron shaped put on d1, by that alone I'd say byron jailed bbt, therefore no nk.

I don't think jk roles should be crumbing anyway, but that's more for post discussion.

Ah, good ole traditional scumhunting.

[teacher]

Yeah there's nothing in their ISOs that makes me think they're crumbing.

AYFKM??? I will grant you I didnt see any crumbs in real time, but after the flip it is so painfully obvious that Byron/Ircher jailed Garmr. The number of crumbs is simply astounding.

I actually want to do a longer post with NK/VC/JK analysis, so Im going to save the list of crumbs (and my conclusions from them) for after work/world cup. But I cant see this claim as actual blindness, so Im going to view it as willful blindness. Also.....

And as I said before, nos/garm &

geo/

tommy

- I believe are unlikely the same alignments. . . . .
VOTE: garm

How in the world is this a logical thought process after a tommy town flip?

[Performer]

I'm more certain on garm than geo. As in, I think those are 2 of the team. It's more helpful to work off what we're more certain of. I'm not super certain on geo , which is why I said that talk should be another day.

Teacher I seriously don't see crumbs that he jailed garm. Ircher came out voting garm and saying he's scum, later he backed off so that makes little sense that he jailed garm , due to that sequence of actions I observed.

[Garmr]

Iirc Your push on nos made you null to me and longer tr. Later you continued it, and his response looked genuine tr reaction. So, therefore the read on you changed.

So because you quote on quote "thought nos had a town reaction at the time" me not interrupting that way makes me scum? Weak.

I actually didn't see any crumbs . Teacher bringing it up, could be a town sign. So, that's why I thought of looking into their ISOs - could help reads for instance.

I'm curious to hear what geo and wave have to say

@garm what's your read of geo?

So that either makes you absolute trash at seeing obvious crumbs everyone has seen and I even pointed out or willful blindness as teacher puts it. I think it's the latter.

Geo= null maybe null-town. Hard to put in any category.

[Garmr]

@Performer

aite this is mainly a prodge, however at a quick glance

I'm noticing a wagon on Garmr and I am very confused, I swear he was like universally townread.

Also I'll get to Nos tomorrow, I've been doing some casting over the last two days so my attention's been on that.

Indicates he town read me. jail-keeper can be used as a pseudo doctor.

How ‘bout you do the same? (The above is based on my role and my thoughts after quickly glancing through 20 or so pages from the start of Day 2)

Answer me this: what percentage of people townread Garmr, and what percentage scumread Garmr?

He has the result of byron thing he wanted to ask town how I was perceived so he could make judgement on the result.

TChill, you’re next!

(Also: Garmr = 99% Town)

Judges I was town (eventually) and says the next jail will be Tchill.

Those are the three big crumbs that stood out to me.

[Performer]

Doesn't jailkeep work both ways? Prevents a kill and protects from a kill?

[Performer]

I just read up on it. It doesn't confirm alignment. That and The fact that garm is using ircher 's crumbs that only he and teacher brought up, to say he's town due to crumbs ... Lol. You guys must have some interesting reading power because no way would I have thought he's crumbing.

That also implies he jailed garm n1, then someone other than garm killed ircher on n2 after they saw the crumbing.

[teacher]

Doesn't jailkeep work both ways? Prevents a kill and protects from a kill?

Exactly. Which is why I view Ircher's intro (talking about garmr=scum and PL garmr) as another crumb as well, becuase in the abstract especially on N1, it is statistically more likely that JK prevents a kill rather than protects a kill. But I will get more into this in my longer post.

[Garmr]

Doesn't jailkeep work both ways? Prevents a kill and protects from a kill?

Yes that's why ircher asked how town perceived me day 1 and tbh no one scum read me which made me a likely scum kill. The reason I mention me being jailkeeped is because of tchill's reaction as explained in post 1362.

To explain it again quickly since you seem slow on the uptake and before you misrepresent anything I say.

-His sudden shift of read in me after I was jailed showed he had knowledge of that byron was a 1.jailkeeper and 2.I was his role target. A town member can only have at most 1 set of information not both. If Tchill was a town tracker he would see byron target me but wouldn't know Tchill role so his sudden shift on my read wouldn't be explained. If Tchill was a rolecop he wouldn't know I was targeted and his reaction towards me wouldn't be explained. Scum would know the night kill target and only tchill would know the role if he was a rolecop.

[Garmr]

I just read up on it. It doesn't confirm alignment. That and The fact that garm is using ircher 's crumbs that only he and teacher brought up,

to say he's town due to crumbs ... Lol.

You guys must have some interesting reading power because no way would I have thought he's crumbing.

That also implies he jailed garm n1, then someone other than garm killed ircher on n2 after they saw the crumbing.

Quit this game replace out you aren't obviously reading this game.

[Garmr]

If garmr was jail kept then wouldn't this mean he was the scum that's was supposed to kill? How the hell would that clear him? He just hopped on that and tried to get town cred really quick.

I'm telling you. Bbt and garmr. Write it down lock it in. I'll walk through it with anybody.

It doesn't clear me I never said it did. To anyone that's not me it means scum tried to kill or I am scum which doesn't really mean to much.

Kinda funny how you tried to push that image I was trying to get some sort of town cred. It's pretty obvious I was using it to show another reason I scum read you from my pov and why we should lynch you.

Hell I don't mind being lynched if everyone promises to lynch you tomorrow.

@everyone who's not tchill
This is scum sweating. Looked at his panicked responses since I made that post.

[Gosrir Elmer Odels]

it is statistically more likely that JK prevents a kill rather than protects a kill.

What? No. They're equally likely. (I have a BA in maths.)

@TC: scumreadlist with a bit more detail, please?

@Garmr: How would've TC known BV jailed you at the time he wrote 974? You say that he might be investigative, but I don't see any reason why scum would investigate BV in particular. Also, I think it's pretty well-known that JK's can be used as doctors. You were one of the most townread players at the end of D1. I don't think TC would've thought you were jailed out of suspicion.

BTW, I'm content with putting Garmr in the conftown pile, & assuming he was jailed on N1 (& that TC was jailed on N2.)

[Gosrir Elmer Odels]

Actually, let's assume TC's a scum PR. Then it's essentially Tracker or RC, right? If he's a tracker, he cannot know BV's the gaolor, so he should assume doctor (by Occam's razor.) If he's RC, he could learn that BV's the gaolor, but whom he targeted. It could be either the meant-to-be NK, or the meant-to-be NKer. & in both cases we still have the question: why would any scum investigative role target BV of all people?

[Performer]

Wow. Just...wow. Where are you even aiming from with the pr assumptions, geo. And we literally have been talking about how jailkeep doesn't mean someone is conftown.

And garm with the awful reason to suggest someone replace out. Shame on you