Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[Wisdom]

those reads suck

Why is eevee scum? Have you played with him before? Go read necromancer

[MafMen]

those reads suck

Why is eevee scum? Have you played with him before? Go read necromancer

i made a post about it
js


also idgaf if you think they are bad
i really dont

[EeveeLution Army]

How in the world can you read pines iso and be like "yup nothing scummy here" ?

[EeveeLution Army]

Also for the second time(third if you read page 1) there is no wolf dude

[Wisdom]

wolf means scum in some other site

[Wisdom]

Ill reluctantly compromise on pine if that ends up being the top wagon

However math or hiraki are the best lynches

Everyone else im not touching

[MafMen]

How in the world can you read pines iso and be like "yup nothing scummy here" ?

Holy fuck i made a post about all of this

[EeveeLution Army]

...what? So your planning for that one post to represent your reads completely?
Also how can someone just be "easy to tr" I've only ever seen that in relation to not wanting to push someone because they are better at the game than you

[MafMen]

...what? So your planning for that one post to represent your reads completely?
Also how can someone just be "easy to tr" I've only ever seen that in relation to not wanting to push someone because they are better at the game than you

not wanting to push someone because they are better than you is NAI and people who use that are wrong

that one post doesnt sum up all my reads, but you asked me about why pine is town, people asked me about why you are scum
and ive already made a post about both of those

[Umlaut]

A "tight game" is shorthand for someone who has been playing things pretty close to the vest, not really giving anything away. Being obvTown is fine if you can manage it, but it's not really positive long-term in that it gets you killed. So playing tight suggests someone who has the discipline to avoid dropping tells at all, but remains involved and active. It

usually

implies Town, but can also be talented scum. Given my lack of history with you, I'm not sure which. My paranoia makes me want to lynch any player skilled enough that I can't read them, but if you're Town that's a major net loss. So I'll prefer Hiraki today.

This is really weird to me because I don't think anyone has described my play that way before. And if anyone I would think that description applies to Hiraki, who in my experience has never been a hard townread for me even though he's been town in I think every game we've been in together (have to double check this though). What kind of tells do you think Hiraki puts out?

@Hiraki

1. I'm trying to get a sense of how your reads have developed over the game. I'm also trying to talk through my own scumread of ArcAngel9 and decide if she's a good choice to lynch today. I definitely like her better than Eevee for scum right now.
   
2. Didn't actually notice it's been that long since she posted but yeah, good point.
   
3. That answer is correct!

@mastina

1. Requesting a prod of ArcAngel9
   
2. Can I retract my vote for a deadline if it hasn't passed yet?

<<< Per 869, yes. >>>

[Umlaut]

@mastina

The above post is not a retraction, I'm just asking if I can.

[LuckyOtter]

anyone who thinks umlaut is a wolf is a bit daft

The only reason you've given for TRing Umlaut so far is that he posts a lot. Is that it, or is there any other reason?

[MafMen]

anyone who thinks umlaut is a wolf is a bit daft

The only reason you've given for TRing Umlaut so far is that he posts a lot. Is that it, or is there any other reason?

no
quality over quantity

being a wallposter pmuch rests you in a town slot

[LuckyOtter]

What do you like about his posts? Can you be more specific?

[Hiraki]

Yeeeeah, no. I may be lowkey here, but I'm not so careless as to just plain make shit up.

LITERALLY the exact problem that I just complained about. In one post, Pine says:

1) He has a read on me that he has not gone into but is scummy.
2) That read is really obvious but he hasn't gone into it because...?
3) Practically ignores all posting.

this is annoying. Regardless of alignment, this is annoying. I would, and definitely have, made this same statement as scum.

No one wants to pick your brain, no one thinks you're a god among men for doing this. It is just downright annoying.

I'm mobile posting so I'm gonna address Umlaut here without quotes.

1. They honestly haven't because I don't think this game matured past Day 1. The deadline vote was on someone that I don't think gave a lot of reads and was dumb anyway. I don't think Angel is worth trying to argue right now because I don't think anyone wants to touch that. All of that being said, there are multiple shady relationships that randomly appear throughout the game. Eevee and Wisdom are two of them. I can go more into this using a keyboard.

[Umlaut]

Here's a Google Sheet listing all votes made yesterday and whatever quotes I could find briefly explaining the basis (even if it was obviously kind of an RVS vote).

<<< [REDACTED], per 868. >>>

I'm not sure how much can be gleaned from this, but I did notice a couple of things.

• Kokichi (now MafMen) hopped off Fitz' wagon because "We should wait for a replacement," immediately after Hiraki hopped on. Fuzzy then rightly survival-voted Fitz back up to L-2, leaving his wagon tied with Fitz'. Kokichi then came back eight hours before deadline and voted
  for Fuzzy.
  All of this happened after Fitz' claim, which means the effect of all Kokichi's actions in that interval was to prevent the claimed cop from ceasing to be the lynch presumptive, and then seal him in as the lynch shortly before deadline.
  
• Wisdom's hammer did not actually result in Fuzzy's lynch, which would have happened at deadline regardless, and I can't come up with an alternative to "I forgot it was plurlynch" that makes any sense at all, so I'm assuming that's the honest reason. (This doesn't totally rule out scum!Wisdom thinking "town would hammer here" but he'd still be doing that because he forgot about plurality.)

Still seeing what else I can find here but more eyes would be nice.

----

@Dunnstral

Yesterday in 589 you moved your vote to TheFuzzylogic99, saying only "Fitz wagon feels wrong." Can you recall what felt wrong about it? Was this something about Fitz or something about the makeup the wagon? In particular, what changed your feelings between 542 and that post?

If it helps jog your memory, immediately before you moved your vote the VC would have been as follows.

havingfitz:

Momrangal, Wisdom, ArcAngel9, Dunnstral, Kokichi Oma (L-2)

TheFuzzylogic99:

LuckyOtter, MathBlade, SirCakez, Pine (L-3)

EeveeLution Army:

havingfitz, Hiraki (L-5)

Pine:

EeveeLution Army (L-6)

SirCakez:

TheFuzzylogic99 (L-6)

----

@Lucky

Your vote was locked on Fuzzy from page 7. Your initial reasons were the following:

Actually, Fuzzy hasn’t contributed anything of substance. Most recently:

Tommorow i should be able to post better posts...away from my main computer atm.

if we get to two weeks and we are getting nowhere than i prob will vote for a day limit. i dont want the game to meander and people loose interest.

Sorry for not posting more...still trying to figure things out.

This feels off. There are two different excuses—away from the computer/trying to figure things out. Which is it? Why say both?

Throughout the day you showed ever more certainty in this read, to the point where after Fuzzy claimed cop you said in 600 that this must be a gambit and didn't seem to think the possibility that the claim was true was even worth discussing. Yet as far as I can see the basis of your scumread never grew much past "failure to contribute." Was there more to the read that you didn't actually share? What made you so confident in a read based on inactivity that in 603 you were pushing Kokichi to hammer a wagon two of whose voters were an empty slot and Fuzzy himself?

I know it's hard to justify a past scumread on now-confirmed town. Just answer as well as you can so I can get a sense of your mindset yesterday.

[LuckyOtter]

Yes initial vote was for a general lack of contribution but subsequently it seemed clearer and clearer that he was actively avoiding providing any reads. He popped in here and there to defend himself but literally nothing else until way too far into the game. I also felt like it was so hard to lynch him because his buddies were trying to protect him (wisdom would've been my first guess). There was pretty big contradiction I pointed out that kept me on a confirmation bias. If you iso me you can see more of my reasoning yesterday. I got a lot of pushback on the fuzzy vote and I was pretty adamant about it and gave my reasoning.

[LuckyOtter]

I'll take a look at your notes later, btw. I like this post. Looks like you're genuinely trying to sort people and not just random busywork. Moving you to my null pile for now.

[mastina]

Here's a Google Sheet listing all votes made yesterday and whatever quotes I could find briefly explaining the basis (even if it was obviously kind of an RVS vote).

<<< Executive decision: though unlikely, chance of abuse means I'm disallowing this, as potential breach of "outside influence" site rule. >>>

[mastina]

Can I retract my vote for a deadline if it hasn't passed yet?

<<< Yes; deadline requests work on the same principle as votes (thus, why locking in a deadline locks it in at one week without change), just majority rounded

down

rather than rounded

up

. >>>

[mastina]

@mastina

Requesting a prod of ArcAngel9

<<< Done. >>>

[MathBlade]

I'll take a look at your notes later, btw. I like this post. Looks like you're genuinely trying to sort people and not just random busywork. Moving you to my null pile for now.

I don’t.

It looks like “effort” for “effort’s sake”

It’s something I have gotten townread for in the past and tomorrow after work I can set up my vote counter tool and provide all the votes and who voted for what etc as well. However when I do it as town it is “spam”.

This is a blatant scumtactic of “hey he’s posting words so I can townread it.

Similarly Wisdom is still scum for not voting his top scumspect

[Dunnstral]

...what? So your planning for that one post to represent your reads completely?
Also how can someone just be "easy to tr" I've only ever seen that in relation to not wanting to push someone because they are better at the game than you

not wanting to push someone because they are better than you is NAI and people who use that are wrong

that one post doesnt sum up all my reads, but you asked me about why pine is town, people asked me about why you are scum
and ive already made a post about both of those

I don't understand what this post is saying

who doesn't want to push someone "because they are better than you"?

Actually, this is pretty low priority, I don't really care, I just don't get it

[Wisdom]

Similarly Wisdom is still scum for not voting his top scumspect

yeah terribly sorry for adapting my reads
you are my top suspect and im voting you

[Umlaut]

Repost of the redacted vote table from 865 as a static CSV:
https://ian.maxwell.name/misc/mini_2014_d1_votes.csv

CSV means no colors but we all know who's confirmed town.