Mini 2020: Destiny III: Cosmic Mafia [終わり]
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Haven't read particularly in depth yet. Don't really have too much time to post right now.
But, even with nothing but a half-assed skim under my belt, I know that Staeg's almost certainly town here; pretty sure he's been mislynched (or should have been mislynched) in every game that we've played together in the past three years but the way that he responds to things with the sort of doe-eyed and underwhelming snark is exclusively his town meta. Think Muffin's push here is opportunistic. The rest of his reads are OK but as a whole underwhelming.
Vote: zMuffinMan"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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You're technically correct that maybe mafia had a way to know the name of town before a sample PM was posted.In post 444, Dunnstral wrote:
What makes sense is that yes, mafia had a way to know about the name of town before it was posted as a sample pm. Kuribo loses points for trying to act like they were confirmed town up until th epoint the mod came in thread and confirmed they weren'tIn post 412, Fate wrote:Everything has always been known. Sample pm added to officially complete my setup ritual and the opening posts
Remember FATE games dont get broken
They break you.
Enjoy
But we are playing a Fate game here - it took me a couple minutes to figure out my alignment in this game so entirely possible he forgot to let mafia know important things like "town is called Harmony".
I think that kuribo looks decently town outside of that. I don't have specifics now (I'd probably be throwing out things like "swagger" or "self-satisfied smirk" if I tried to talk about it now), but 1) do you have an opinion on kuribo outside or the harmony stuff and 2) are you really willing to die on this hill? because it looks like you're in the process of dying on this hill."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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DGB is another "pretty much lock town" read in this game; she doesn't have anywhere the same amount of bite whether scum or town and, while I can find that playing with scumpartners she likes can elevate her play, I don't think that it would be elevated to this level.
I understand where LLD's coming from this game (it's an extremely awkward and uncomfortable place to come from), but DGB's just being DGB at this point and there's no reason for continued interactions here - you're just making yourself angrier and this game will continue to grate and be unfun until you manage to let go/disconnect from that particular piece. I have no problems with her reads so far, like the Kuribo/Maria observation in particular. I initially didn't understand it, but there was a similar and different dynamic with RC and Kuribo and believe that both Maria and Kuribo have the type of pride in their scumgames that can lead to an interaction like that."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Espeonage also seemed pretty town.
My interpretation is sloppier than yours. I don't find this line of thought to be productive in any way at all."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I'll start actually catching up tomorrow - I've mostly been staying read up by skimming when I have the chance so my hope is that catching up won't actually be that bad."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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The only post that you've made talking about your Staeg read without going "Staeg is scum because his posts are bad OR Staeg is bad because there's nothing town in his posts" is this one, which addresses Staeg's #636, which is one of the posts I think that Staeg is the least likely to make as scum.In post 860, zMuffinMan wrote:i still want to lynch staeg. his most recent post to kuribo just looks like a lot of words used to say very little in the end (im not even clear on whether he is (or was) reading kuribo as scum - the beginning of that post seems to suggest he was, the end of it seems to suggest he isn't, but it's not entirely clear)
The first sentence is the last piece of followup to his initial prodding of Kuribo in #324 - following that progression it seems more obvious that he was initially scumreading Kuribo for the push but backed off it later. I don't think this is a move that Staeg would be likely to pull, especially based on the reasoning he gave - Staeg as scum is more tentative than most in pushing players who are likely to push him back, and the idea that he would push Kuribo as scum because "your groove wasn't fitting in with how I was feeling at time" seems absurd to me and isn't something that I think have been acknowledged by any of the Staeg voters, but is especially something that I feel that you should be seeing.In post 636, Staeg wrote:Kurbio, the push seemed off because at every step you raised an objection that differed significantly from anything I might have responded. There was a groove to it that didn't fit my reading of the game, even if none of it was technically wrong.
My original interpretation of Dunn's Kokichi vote and unvote was not fencesitty at all, mostly because I had a similar impression that there was a clear improvement, but I appear to have misassigned someone's post to Kokichi, since 156 is the only intermediate post and it's not a very good one. My previous frame pointed at Dunn making a reasonable transition that didn't merit much explanation (which made me confused about why Kuribo would jump on it), and this new one just feels like he got distracted and didn't pay attention, then tried to reverse-engineer the reasoning later.
Responding to "why is [post] bad?" with "no why is it good?" was similarly jarring - your further response was the next intuitive step, and your dance felt like it had an added 2.5 step between the 2-beat and the 3-beat and was thus off.
I projected the off-ness of the dance onto Dunn at the time, and felt like he understandably couldn't quite catch your pitch. I now appear to think he's scum, oops, more on that in a bit.
You then asserted disenginuity on my part and assumed that the faultline I perceived was regarding the naked vote, not regarding your approach specifically, which, blech, is fair in retrospect, but did not at all read like a reasonable interpretation of my posts at the time.
All this resulted in me feeling like you're not reading between the lines, or that your eyes perceive much different words written there. The "series of somethings" was a not-entirely-sober way of saying that you're talking past each other, and that you're also talking past me regarding a misplaced understanding of my points of disapproval.
His backpedal onto voting Dunnstral after defending him really doesn't make sense from a scum perspective because it doesn't look like something planned or agenda based at all. If he was scum here, then I'd imagine he'd have a vague sort of plan in mind when deciding to defend Dunnstral against kuribo, but this... doesn't imply that at all. I don't understand what Staeg voters think that he was thinking here if scum - did he defend Dunnstral against Kuribo andnotexpect pushback of any sort? Or when he got pushback, did he chicken out?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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and then apparently staeg-scum, after bungling an attack of kuribo and defense of Dunnstral to the point where he had to back off seconds later, decides to throw a potshot at DGB, who is one of the most townread players in the game right now and coincidentally was one of the very few players leaning town on him at this point.In post 861, Staeg wrote:This entire debacle on behalf of DGB feels very inconsistent with my model of how emotionally intelligent she is and of what some people - kuribo, mostly - are saying in regards to their reasoning (ie directly contradicting the claim that this is emotion-based and pointing at actual content), to the extent that I'd call it a scumpost.
This just isn't anywhere close to his scum meta; Staeg as scum is quiet and underwhelming but I've never ever seen him go "wildly suicidal" as he seems to be doing here. Staeg-town gets mislynched incessantly for pretty much this reason exactly."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Push is a bad word, but it's something that he wrote down and, if he has any familiarity with kuribo at all (and hey, he does), then he knows he's getting pushback for it and he knows it's going to be challenged.In post 1092, zMuffinMan wrote:it wasn't obvious that he was scum-reading kuribo before that post. calling someone's push "ill-founded" (324) doesn't imply a scum read and the posts following that didn't read to me like he was scum-reading kuribo either"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I don't think he ever had a full fledged scumread on kuribo. I think that he felt badly about kuribo's push initially (scumread), talked to him about it, backed off and then realized he was incorrect about elements of kuribo's push and was incorrect about some things that were happening in general.In post 1092, zMuffinMan wrote:as far as the progression on that read goes, what progression? at what point and why do you think staeg flipped the kuribo read you think he had? because for the most part, that post looks like him trying to rock the boat as little as possible (there's no attack on kuribo here, it reads more like a defense of himself, and the second and fourth paragraph aren't even about kuribo). he never commits to a kuribo read at any point (in that post or the prior ones) and he ends that post by seemingly backing off for reasons he doesn't talk about
If he wasn't trying to rock the boat, he doesn't attack kuribo here and his back off of defending Dunnstral isn't "oops I guess I'm scumreading Dunnstral now"."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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So this point doesn't apply.In post 1094, AnonymousGhost wrote:It's been brought up - not by me - that 114 is sus because if Staeg that it was a scum post, why'd he wait until someone else called it a scum post and then wait until three people voted for Kokichi. This, however, has been refuted by the point that Staeg wasn't online and active at the time that this pile on happened, tbf. (I think he's the one who refuted it, but I don't know for sure.)"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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For the rest, my main point was that Staeg as scum doesn't like pushing people who are likely to push him back aka he doesn't mess with people with Fate/Kuribo/LLD/Muffin who give the people scumreading them an incredibly hard time.In post 1094, AnonymousGhost wrote:Staeg's "push" on me is literally "I'm down with a wagon on AG" after LLD posted her "I don't like Ghost" 163. Are these two things a direct cause and effect? Probably not. Does it fit into the pattern that Staeg hasn't "pushed" for a wagon of his own? Yes. Just take a look at how he joined the Kokichi wagon after three other people voted.
His "case" on Dunn was never actually brought up despite his 636 that promised he'd explain more on that. It's worth noting that Staeg says he scum reads Dunn in a roundabout way and he never voted Dunn in that post. It's nearly 200 posts later that he does in 861. I recognize that this is flimsy because Staeg could've been pressed for time or maybe it's not his meta to vote in the same post he says he scum reads someone, but I still think it's sus.
For both his push on Dunn and I, nobody knows what it is. It might as well be a gut read for as much as Staeg has "explained" his reads/cases.
I didn't say that he's likely to explain his reads well as town but not as scum because that's not the case. I also didn't say that he isn't likely to make easier votes/be swayed by loud voices as town because that also isn't the case. His posts towards DGB and Kuribo here might not seem like much to you but they are things that never ever come from him as scum and don't make sense coming from him as scum in the first place."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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You said:In post 1099, AnonymousGhost wrote:If you say so.
"Here's a point, it's been refuted already."
So is it a point you believe in anyways (you don't believe the counterpoint is legit) or...?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I am Aphrodite, he is Hades. My role is referred to as a" Sun/Moon Combination, with a sun in Pisces. I'm not sure what more information is required."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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The "apparently not a tree stump" comment is based on something that Fate said in the PT which very heavily implied that Staeg was voteless and I was not."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Why is my current vote a bad one?In post 1131, Dunnstral wrote:Nacho, any chance you would join this? Also, get Staeg off of me"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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or it means you were killed by a strongmanIn post 1811, MariaR wrote:I can confrim this game is multiball I had a 1 shot vest as well and I got killed through it
This means I was killed by 2 things
which is strange either way"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I'm catching up now.
I would say something like "please don't confirm kuribo as Leo King before I have time to read the game", buuuut Fate's modding so I'll probably have plenty of time anyways."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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So in response to 1, I think that Feysal's point of view makes a lot of sense here and it's something he's post 161 hinting at since pretty early game. If Feysal is scum here and knows that it's multiball, I really don't think this is how he plays it. Feysal is an intelligent person. If he is scum, he's claiming in an effort to be seen as town. I don't think any person claiming what Feysal is right now for towncred could be called anything but "fucking insane".In post 1946, kuribo wrote:I find it hard to believe that 1- that's how Feysal knows we're in multiball, 2- that he's a town aligned half-Miller that shows up as scum to scum, and 3- that his bah post from yesterday, which contained no mention of multiball or a pseudo-Miller, or any sort of useful information could have come from town who thought he'd just been roped
In response to 3, I think that your point would be much much stronger if Feysal was a mason or a cop. If I'm quickhammered as a vanilla townie, I'll go "fuck you guys that was a horrible lynch" but I won't feel obligated to claim a role that doesn't really matter whereas when I get quickhammered as a strong PR I should have claimed my response is more along the lines of "I'm a cop - if you would have let me claimed I could have cleared myself but instead you just had to shit the bed". I don't understand why Feysal would mention multiball when hammered - it's an inference that he made based on his role and it's something that we'd figure out pretty quickly with his flip/by night 1, and it's not something that's guaranteed to be true. If he was feeling cooperative and dumping information everywhere then I'd feel differently but that's not the type of mood it seemed like he was in."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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i will talk the most about things that i either A) feel strongly about, or B) feel are most relevant.In post 576, zMuffinMan wrote:don't really like the staeg defense - i wouldn't classify anything staeg's posted as "snarky" but even if i squint and look at his posts sideways, i can't see what he's referring to. nacho's reasoning for voting me feels pretty weak. don't really like the fact he put a lot more effort into talking about things other than his primary scum read, especially since he should know it's going to take a lot more than that to actually get me lynched (i get that he's time-constrained but he had enough time to post the rest of what he posted so yeah)
you being my primary scumread didn't mean that you were a particularly strong read. i'm not arrogant enough to believe that i'll have a significant impact in getting someone lynched when i'm not a significant presence in the game."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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?
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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i really don't understand the point you're making.In post 1964, kuribo wrote:You're making my point without trying to. He already knew he'd flip factional scum, and so he had no need to reveal that to town. Again, it would take an extraordinarily bad player to not mention that as lynched town, and I do not believe Feysal to be an extraordinarily bad player.
i wouldn't claim my role if i was in feysal's position."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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why do you think that it's more likely to be a scum role?In post 1961, zMuffinMan wrote:i believe feysal's role claim. i think it's more likely a scum role, though
and i don't really think feysal is playing like town anyway so i just want to see his flip
why don't you think he's playing like town?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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The case you're pushing, as I understand it, is that most townies in Feysal's position would have fully claimed. I disagree. I disagree because I certainly wouldn't have claimed in his position, and I disagree because I think that there are two attitudes when you've been prematurely lynched - there's an "oh fuck" attitude where you try to scribble down everything you possibly can and there's a "fuck you guys I'm out" attitude when you'll occasionally claim to demonstrate how the people who lynched you were idiots, but you won't offer up information otherwise. Feysal was clearly feeling more of the latter.In post 1971, kuribo wrote:And I would, if I were Town in his position.So you see how pointless this circle is.
Can you talk about the point that you were making that I accidentally proved?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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And I really really really don't see Feysal being so open about his role if he is honestly claiming.In post 1972, Nachomamma8 wrote:
why do you think that it's more likely to be a scum role?In post 1961, zMuffinMan wrote:i believe feysal's role claim. i think it's more likely a scum role, though
and i don't really think feysal is playing like town anyway so i just want to see his flip
why don't you think he's playing like town?
Like how the fuck is that something that you rand and go "yep, this role looks town, I'm most certainly going to claim it"? And if he felt that way about it then why was he so very clearly uncomfortable claiming?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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it's been 24 hours.
we're supposed to have 168 hours to decide on a lynch.
it's premature to bury him for not redeeming himself right now."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I'm saying his flip would have given us all the information he had which was not only unimportant, but also unreliable. That's not "town NEEDS to know this or it impacts their chances of a win" level information.In post 1977, kuribo wrote:You're saying that his flip would have made multiball apparent. I'm agreeing with you for the opposite reason: he didn't say anything because he knew he was flipping factional scum anyway."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I don't understand why you're as frustrated as you are with me right now.In post 1982, Dunnstral wrote:Nacho I don't care what you think because you asked me why Kokichi was a bad lynch, I laid out at least 5 reasons, then you disappeared and never talked about it and were on the kokichi mislynch. You don't get to defend Feysal now when that's what people were trying to lynch yesterday - his lynch was decided yesterday. Your vote on kokichi caused a mislynch there instead, so sorry but I'm not sorry, you shouldn't have mislynched Kokichi who wasn't even scummy
I'm sorry I wasn't around yesterday, and I'm sorry that I apathetically contributed to a mislynch. It wasn't intentional, but I've fucked up a hell of a lot worse countless times before so I'm not going to give up on trying to play the game because I did something bad."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I mean there's no way for him to know that it would, but see point A where the information sucks and could be wrong and thus really, really isn't very important to share.In post 1988, kuribo wrote:And since he hasn't claimed a role name, how sure are we that even his flip would make it clear?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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i'd imagine it's more likely that pixie moved feysal's vote than Feysal having a vote that he can submit secretly but still shows up publiclyIn post 1652, thepixiecollective wrote:we can control a players vote.
there are 2 votes accountable here
where are every1 else's votes
cos this cld be important"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I know you've seen townies crumple like a shitty card table before. My only point is that it'd be really super wonderful if we could give him more than one chance to redeem himself, especially since the horrible awful thing he did yesterday was not post a lot after taking a super long break from mafia.In post 1981, kuribo wrote:But he's posted in those 24 hours and his only "redemption" was "Hay Guys I'm gonna die but I'm okay with that and also I'm a reverse miller""Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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if i'm scumIn post 1997, AnonymousGhost wrote:I hate the fact that they can do basically do this in secret.
and i can move peoples votes in secret and make it look like other people quickhammer
i am never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever claiming that shit."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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my point is that no one would. it's a ridiculously broken scum power that is only ridiculously strong when people don't know about it. so telling people about it is a move that basically never comes from scum. do you see why?In post 2000, AnonymousGhost wrote:Apples to orange Nacho. Comparing your scum meta to their scum meta is irrelevant."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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the only read i'm unsure about in that list is Dunnstral and even then I think I'm pretty comfortable slating him in as town.In post 1990, Feysal wrote:As of now, I have everyone else in the process of elimination pile.
what do you think about DGB?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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except mollie's play looks extremely townIn post 2005, kuribo wrote:that actually makes it more convincing that she's your partner, knowing that she moved Dunn's vote to save youremember, guys, mollie's reasoning for being mad at the Feysal lynch after pushing the wagon earlier was "Whoops forgot I said that."
and mollie claiming her ability if scum doesn't make sense
i also would imagine that if mollie and feysal were partners then she'd get anyone but feysal to hammer kokichi
but that's just me"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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you hate their ability because it's so incredibly good for scum, correct? we don't get any warning at all when they do it, and there's no way to trace it back to them. why would they claim it if they were scum?In post 2008, AnonymousGhost wrote:I see it, but it still doesn't make me hate their ability any less, considering weget no fucking warningwhen they do it."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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i'll explain my reads in full before i leave the computer unless i'm eaten by a pack of wild gorillas or something, but i'd like to finish reading before doing so.In post 2011, AnonymousGhost wrote:
Can to explain why you think these people should be targeted with the Day Vig?In post 2009, Nachomamma8 wrote:one of {muffin, cupcake, nosferatu}"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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My point is that there's a very clear advantage to mollie not claiming her role, and the advantage doesn't come close to the potential towncred from claiming it.In post 2013, AnonymousGhost wrote:
And me claiming that you and Staeg are fake claiming - and thereby wanting to lynch either of you yesterday - Masons makes no sense from a scum standpoint, but people still think I'm scum. So, what's your point?In post 2010, Nachomamma8 wrote:mollie claiming her ability if scum doesn't make sense
The standard scum tells and scum behavior are just that. Standards. Outliers exist for a reason.
I also don't understand the counterpoint here - I think that your push on Staeg and I looks blindingly town and that people who believe differently are wrong. You disagree with that?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 2017, zMuffinMan wrote:i think the claim was a last ditch 'why would scum do that?' effort tbh.
This is Feysal's third post. This takes away the possibility of claiming a basic role (the type that gets good counterclaims on the table) pretty much immediately, and the "I have some wild ideas about the setup" is consistent with the multiball theory he offers later.In post 161, Feysal wrote:
I'm intrigued by this. I also find it believable, since I am also confused. I have some wild ideas about the setup, but I think it is too early to speculate.In post 154, Kokichi Oma wrote:I said this started quickly cause I have no fucking idea what my role is.
This is from Feysal's "I've been lynched" post. If he's scum here, he'd be banking that his fake hammered post would be getting him towncred and would still be pretending and again he crumbs having a super oddball role.In post 1574, Feysal wrote:Oh, and Staeg... I would not be so quick to defend Fate in this case. For what it is worth, I find Kokichi's claim believable. It would not be the strangest role in this game, not even close.You have no idea.
I don't think that this makes sense at all as a preplanned claim from scum, and I don't think it makes sense to think that it wasn't preplanned when he's been crumbing since early in the game."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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If your counterpoint is "you could be wrong because your thinking is too standard", then OK - every point I make I'm usually pretty aware that I can be horribly wrong, but just because I can be wrong doesn't mean that I am wrong.In post 2018, AnonymousGhost wrote:Nacho
I see your point, but I ultimately disagree.
The counterpoint is basically acting as an example of how standard scum behavior/tells shouldn't be wholly applied to every person. There's a reason why arguments like "too scummy to be scum" exist. Like I told Feysal, experienced scum know these tells; they can, and possibly will fly in the face of them in order to avoid looking like scum, thus rendering these standard scum tells/behavior models useless.
If you're saying that I don't know what I'm talking about wrt mollie as an individual or that I'm projecting myself on her or that I'm treating her as a standard scum player when she's a nonstandard one, then you're prejudging me - I'm familiar with her play as both alignments and am not making any of those mistakes."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Your argument either doesn't make sense or I'm not understanding it properly unless you're saying that this is how you'd play the role if you had it as a scum role? Like yeah the way he played it is weird and a little crazy but there's not a clear scum motivation behind it.In post 2017, zMuffinMan wrote:also should clarify, it's not just the role i think is more likely scum than town, it's the way he used it. put yourself in town-feysal's shoes and tell me why you send an anonymous message with nothing but "multiball" in it (he didn't claim any limitations on the word limit or anything so he coulda gone like "HI, IT'S FEYSAL, I HAVE REASON TO BELIEVE IT'S MULTIBALL ALSO HERE ARE MY READS ETC ETC"). i'd also argue that outright giving information that you have reason to believe it's multiball is a pretty useful thing to have on the table early d1, because that's how i'd play the role if i honestly had it as a town role (but i don't think this is a particularly strong point because i could see others not agreeing with me about this)"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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the town motivation is that he was trying to gauge a reaction. he wasn't worried about it being confusing since he figured he was claiming anyways.In post 2026, zMuffinMan wrote:no im saying sending the message "multiball" and nothing else has virtually no town motivation
that's reasonable enough town motivation for me. not the way that i would have played it, but I understand "trying to get a reaction"."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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you continually point to things that he should have done but you haven't at all pointed to things that make him more likely to be scum.In post 2028, zMuffinMan wrote:oh, and claiming that at least an aspect of your role points to multiball is something he should have done d1 if he's town"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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think that he's made some slick strides in emotional manipulation as scum since i've played with him last. this is him faking rage as scum in a recent game with you:In post 2017, zMuffinMan wrote:as far as his actual play goes, i don't get the feeling he's actually trying to scum hunt here. good example of this would be the way his dunnstral read has played out over the course of the game but his other reads haven't been great either
this is him now:I'm rather annoyed at Notscience right now. I thought I knew how he plays by now, but seeing him isolate himself in an ivory tower with his cabal and attack someone for daring to question him is something new. It is so overt it is not even suspicious, but it is definitely not pro-town either. What the hell do you think you are doing?
Like I know scum caught for the wrong reasons is a thing but he really didn't pull any punches there.In post 1574, Feysal wrote:So, I was hammered. Just like that. No warning, no claim, nothing. Not that I'm surprised mind you, I could see this coming when Kuribo and DGB suddenly turned on me with their idiotic reasons. I wish I could call them the dumbest I was ever lynched for, but I have crossed paths with so many true morons they might not even make the top ten. Suspected for reading the game after coming back from vacation? And Saturday is how many days after Thursday again? Oh, and I'm sure you've never been uncertain about a read on the first day of a game? I can forgive the other voters for joining the wagon so close to deadline, but those reasons were just awful. At least that saves me from reading the twenty plus pages I missed while I was away. Even if I updated my reads now, you would probably forget them by tomorrow anyway."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Like, that hammered post is a thing of beauty. If I made that post I'd be patting myself on the back and messaging Fate about what a stellar fucking scum player I've become.
Do you really think he brings that level of righteous indignation to getting lynched out of nowhere as scum who didn't really have time and kind of went through the motions?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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he did.In post 2041, kuribo wrote:In post 2038, Nachomamma8 wrote:the point on espeonage just required espeonage to be scum with cupcake
"Partners" in the plural, is what Feysal said.
however, he wasn't scumhunting for multiple partners. and he didn't know that it was multiball. he just thought that based on his role it could be multiball, so considering an alternative isn't the perspective slip it is."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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your pushes were very different.In post 2044, AnonymousGhost wrote:Pretty sure you'll explain this later, but I want details as to why Muffin's on the list, especially since Muffin basically had the same reaction I did towards your Mason claims."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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How do you think her role functions? She can only move the votes of her scum partners...?In post 2046, kuribo wrote:Maybe her role doesn't function as she's claimed?
Maybe she knew it would look bizarre in the vote counts and wanted townie points?
It would look bizarre in the vote counts, but it most certainly doesn't trace back to her.
I can't comment on the third point because I haven't gotten there yet."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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LLD's initial read on Kuribo and Maria were that they were either Town/Town or Scum/Scum. I usually don't like "this interaction is T/T or S/S or T/S" reads because they're baseless and oftentimes they're just a reflection of an agenda ("this argument is T/S" allows you to come down on whatever side is losing/means that you can push the other person after the first one gets lynched). This one in particular I understood because of Gumball, where kuribo and RC's dynamic ended up becoming something pretty weird that I don't think would have existed if one was scum and one was town.In post 475, thepixiecollective wrote:
I can't parse the bold at all. cld you unpack this for me?In post 452, Nachomamma8 wrote:DGB is another "pretty much lock town" read in this game; she doesn't have anywhere the same amount of bite whether scum or town and, while I can find that playing with scumpartners she likes can elevate her play, I don't think that it would be elevated to this level.
I understand where LLD's coming from this game (it's an extremely awkward and uncomfortable place to come from), but DGB's just being DGB at this point and there's no reason for continued interactions here - you're just making yourself angrier and this game will continue to grate and be unfun until you manage to let go/disconnect from that particular piece. I have no problems with her reads so far, like the Kuribo/Maria observation in particular.I initially didn't understand it, but there was a similar and different dynamic with RC and Kuribo and believe that both Maria and Kuribo have the type of pride in their scumgames that can lead to an interaction like that.
is your muffina vote a srs vote? I hope it is a srs vote. but I wld like to lynch dunnstral first."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.