Micro 813 - Game Over

[OkaPoka]

invisibility is just tossing around votes and joining wagons, something normally people would scumread him for but i think it is too carefree to be read as scum.

some new players as town really care about being scumread most more experienced players as town get more apathetic about scumread unless they see the scumread as inconsistent and scummy or they are going to be lynched.

is it? i was going to mark guilty as solid town because usually town does not completely 180 a case they just built and admit they are wrong.

[Antihero]

invisibility is just tossing around votes and joining wagons, something normally people would scumread him for but i think it is too carefree to be read as scum.

those are just bad reasons to scumread someone to begin with, esp early game.

so.... congrats on not pushing a facile scumread i guess...?

some new players as town really care about being scumread most more experienced players as town get more apathetic about scumread unless they see the scumread as inconsistent and scummy or they are going to be lynched.

some people just have short fuses and don't like being called scum (me being one of them). that's why "defensiveness" sucks as a scumtell

is it? i was going to mark guilty as solid town because usually town does not completely 180 a case they just built and admit they are wrong.

errr... what's this now? i lost track of what you're talking about.

[GuiltyLion]

is it? i was going to mark guilty as solid town because usually town does not completely 180 a case they just built and admit they are wrong.

yeah what? which case did I 180? and where did I "admit" that I was "wrong" about anything? I certainly haven't been wrong about anything yet this game (other than likely the page 1 Korina townread)

[Korina]

I'm VT.

Putting me at L-2 is effectively L-1 because I will self-hammer regardless of alignment btw.

Anyways, I'll reply to posts in a minute.

[Korina]

VOTE: Mafmen
We're on page 6 now, if that's helping you form reads yet.

I probably won't actually be able to sort Invisibility today. I feel the same way Oka does. Korina can you elaborate? Because I'm not seeing it. You looked a little lynch-happy very early (regardless of who you were actually voting) and Invisibility voted you for that. What's the issue?

Wdym?

any questions for me about the game so far? I find it better for me to digest the information/catchup if I can interact with it.

also is it me or is invisibility too scummy to be scum.

I was having a similar delimma, but ultimately feel like Korina's lynch would help me determine that.

Also... sorry Korina. <3

I mean, either I'm the D1 lynch or I live till the end (usually), so, I don't see why you're apologizing. I'm already kinda used to getting lynched D1.

Also I feel you ignored my response to you as well as Oath's question about your MafMen vote.

If I missed something, then why don't you quote what I missed so I can see it, and not obviously miss it?

No, my vote was still on Maf because I didn't have anyone else I was really suspecting, plus, I didn't see the need to change my vote. Why bother changing it if it'd be to unvote and nothing else?

ah sorry I should have kept reading before jumping in lmao, my bad will try not to do it again.

weren't you suspecting Manatee? this explanation feels super inconsistent with your posts about wanting to vote Manatee but also worrying about the wagon size

Yes, I did. That's called "posting while tired and not thinking about things like that"

What strawman? And also, my TR on Blackstar is based on this game I ran. His tone feels similar to this game

Post 91 addresses Post 60 like it was saying "quickhammers don't happen" or "quickhammers aren't bad," both of which are laughable premises and ALSO not what 60 was saying at all.

also not seeing what you're apparently seeing re: blackstar meta

1) That's not a strawman, that's a legit concern about quickhammering again on accident. Keyword: ON ACCIDENT.
I quickhammered in MCFM because I miscounted on Doom and thought he was at L-2, not L-1.
2) Looking at how Blackstar was playing that game feels similar to how he was in this game (before he replaced out).

[Kublai Khan]

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Vote Count

Korina - 3 - Oath, Invisibility, Antihero
MafMen - 2 - GuiltyLion, LuckyOtter
Invisibility - 2 - LuckyOtter, Korina
LuckyOtter - 1 - ManateeDude

Not Voting - MafMen, OkaPoka

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

LuckyOtter V/LA until 7/16/18.

[OkaPoka]

Ok, let me log on to my laptop, but, Invis, I

never

voted Manatee.

VOTE: Invisibilty

Horrible reason to vote someone in general.
I think you’re scum as well as Mantaee.

this is a real contrived/bad vote and post

yes you technically never voted Manatee but you made it abundantly clear that you did not like his intro and were considering voting him. Invis said he thought Manatee was lynchbait, Otter suggested he vote someone "on the manatee wagon" as there would likely be a scum pushing there if Manatee is lynchbait. Just because you technically didn't

literally

vote him doesn't change the main point that you were effectively aboard "the wagon" for all intents and purposes, even without a vote. Like this just makes your hand-wringing about "are we sure he's scum" look even worse because it's like you're now trying to defend yourself with your lack of vote. And you're not rebuffing Invisibility's read of the game-state, you're playing semantics.

Also I feel you ignored my response to you as well as Oath's question about your MafMen vote.

No, my vote was still on Maf because I didn't have anyone else I was really suspecting, plus, I didn't see the need to change my vote. Why bother changing it if it'd be to unvote and nothing else?

ah sorry I should have kept reading before jumping in lmao, my bad will try not to do it again.

weren't you suspecting Manatee? this explanation feels super inconsistent with your posts about wanting to vote Manatee but also worrying about the wagon size

i was reading this as you were admitting that you didn't read everything before you posted and were just posting your thoughts which were later clarified so you flipped on korina based on what you read. usually as scum i like to revise what im saying and edit things but as town i just ramble. thats why i marked you as town before.

but then you seemed to go in another direction which now i dont know.


@korina why would you ever self hammer as town?

[GuiltyLion]

I'm VT.

Putting me at L-2 is effectively L-1 because I will self-hammer regardless of alignment btw.

Anyways, I'll reply to posts in a minute.

k

VOTE: Korina

[GuiltyLion]

i was reading this as you were admitting that you didn't read everything before you posted and were just posting your thoughts which were later clarified so you flipped on korina based on what you read. usually as scum i like to revise what im saying and edit things but as town i just ramble. thats why i marked you as town before.

but then you seemed to go in another direction which now i dont know.

what I do (as town) is skim to see the major things (votes/what people are talking about) so I know what to focus on, then catch up and reply as I go

but I don't think I flipped on Korina, I was consistently scumreading him and both 119 and 120 were bad posts which deserved a reply each. My 134 isn't a reversal except for me acknowledging that Korina did answer Oath's question and I missed it

[OkaPoka]

gotcha

why are you trying to bait out korina's possible selfhammer?

[Korina]

@Oka Because if I'm at L-1 D1 as a VT, literally nothing I say can get me off the stand, barring some horrible slip from someone else, which if someone's at L-1, obviously scum are gonna be watching what they're saying to ensure that won't happen.

Basically, I'm dead either way, why delay what's gonna happen regardless?

[OkaPoka]

if you self hammer it denies town the ability to analyze the wagon fully and you shouldn't be defeatist as any alignment because it is always possible to break a wagon on you.

[GuiltyLion]

@Oka Because if I'm at L-1 D1 as a VT, literally nothing I say can get me off the stand, barring some horrible slip from someone else, which if someone's at L-1, obviously scum are gonna be watching what they're saying to ensure that won't happen.

this isn't really true at all

and if you are town, making someone else hammer you instead of doing it yourself gives a lot more information to town bc the wagon has 5 non-you players on it rather than just 4

self-hammering is a bad play regardless of alignment and I won't be held hostage to it as a threat, if you're not scum then make a convincing case on somebody else

[GuiltyLion]

gotcha

why are you trying to bait out korina's possible selfhammer?

if he's town then he's lynchbait for that comment anyway, I'd never live that post live until endgame

[GuiltyLion]

EBWOP - let* that post live until endgame

[OkaPoka]

self hammering could be useful as scum imo in order to cut a day short when you are guaranteed scum and you want to try and throw associative tells/wagon dynamics out of the window because now you added WIFOM to the mix.

okay guilty, now that korina hasn't self hammered herself as she promised too, what do you make of it?

[GuiltyLion]

self hammering could be useful as scum imo in order to cut a day short when you are guaranteed scum and you want to try and throw associative tells/wagon dynamics out of the window because now you added WIFOM to the mix.

okay guilty, now that korina hasn't self hammered herself as she promised too, what do you make of it?

yeh, I guess this is true, but IMO if we get a scumlynch D1 in this set-up we're pretty well off anyway. We'd have better odds than a normal micro because we only need to lynch 1 scum left and yet there'd be two remaining in addition to no more NKs.

I don't know if he's ignoring my L-1 or if he missed it somehow. I'd like to see him explicitly acknowledge it before I can really read it, but not self-hammering here is kinda NAI IMO because self-hammering is stupid as either alignment here.

also I started looking through Korina's posts to see if he's pulled this threat before, didn't immediately see it anywhere but I did find this post (in a game where Korina was scum) where another townie threatened to self-hammer and it defused the wagon. So I think Korina may have been inspired to try a similar gambit here.

[OkaPoka]

IMO if scum korina was thinking about this clearly, i really don't see why she would threaten to self hammer an L1, it's a damned if you do and a damned if you don't.

if you do self hammer well its a free lynch for town, and if you don't then that can easily be scumread and then probably guarantee a lynch on oneself later on at the very least.

and if town korina was thinking about this clearly, i still don't see why you would threaten to self hammer. because town would never want to actually self hammer, at least in this setup. im pretty sure some mods to the turn into neutral survivor, modkill, end day phase when townie self hammers.

i think if anything, it's the defeatist attitude I want to see from Korina explained more.
so @korina, why the defeatist attitude? maybe you can't block yourself from getting lynched and make yourself seem town, but can't you still scumhunt while you are being attacked and attempt to present better wagons?

if you think about it, if you are truly town then you know that you are the only guaranteed towns, so it would be a mistake to lynch you 100% of the time while everyone else has at least a chance of being scum so literally lynching anyone else would be more optimal.

[Korina]

Oh wait, am I at L-1?

[Korina]

Also, read my games on TOS forums.
I self-hammered there at L-1 plenty of times.

[Korina]

My username on there is STAA

[Korina]

Also, not self-hammering yet because I'm trying to find games where I did.
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=76339

^^ That's one on MS. Rest are on tos forums.

[OkaPoka]

okay you lost town the game when you self hammered

that's just.. no

please don't do that

[Korina]

http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewto ... 0#p2067430
http://blankmediagames.com/phpbb/viewto ... 2#p1855602
https://www.blankmediagames.com/phpbb/v ... 4#p1832554

These were the major ones I could find scrolling through old posts of mine.
Which, honestly, I'm still shocked how toxic I was back on those forums.

[Korina]

So, there's proof I can

and

will self-hammer regardless of alignment.

Also, Oka, I'm a guy.