OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)

[the worst]

VOTE COUNT 1.8

Sando (1)

~ BuJaber,

skitter30 (0)

~

AP (0)

~

brassherald (0)

~

BuJaber (1)

~ Enigma,

Ausuka (0)

~

Skygazer (0)

~

vulcan logician (1)

~ Sando,

ceejayvinoya (0)

~

ruru (0)

~

ofrhz (0)

~

Invisibility (3)

~ ceejayvinoya, brassherald, OkaPoka,

OkaPoka (2)

~ AP, Invisibility,

Enigma (5)

~ Ausuka, Skygazer, ruru, ofrhz, skitter30,

NOT VOTING:

vulcan logician,

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

day one will end in (expired on 2018-07-25 18:30:00)

mod notes:

- skitter30 v/la Fridays & Saturdays
- quack

[ruru]

AP, are your reads still confidential?

[AP]

what are you referring to here?

Being persistent on shading ruru despite the fact (from my own PoV) it's clear she's town and her pick and claim came from a townie mindset.

But is there town motivation?

Again, beating a dead horse. If there's no

scum motivation

it's a town action. There are plenty of town motivation that are best kept hidden and it gets on my nerves -in general- when people persist on dwelling over a certain point to no end. (ex: I was once a Cop, and I got a clear on someone, and the town Vig was persistent on either shooting me or shooting my innocent regardless of the flip of the day lynch. I eventually burst and replaced out after telling them how stupid their play was. It was D2 and I was defending just ONE player. Isn't this reason enough to take a breath and consider the possibilities? Would scum stick their neck this far out to defend a buddy?)

Anyway..

Why wouldn't town pick an investigator role first or at least pretend to be one with the low keyness and then pgo.

People do not think alike nor do they act alike. This is trying to force his own way as the only correct way.

Why wouldn't town pick an investigator role first or at least pretend to be one with the low keyness and then pgo.

Because they'd be a prime target for the NK anyway. If you're #1 in the picking order and you're town, scum will always assume you picked Cop, Role Cop or JK/Tracker. However, TPRs don't know who's town and one of those might be inclined to investigate the person who picked first, hence the claim. (Otherwise it would have been great if she didn't claim and just obv!towned enough to guarantee she gets targeted by the NK on N1).

but why claim now? the plan falls apart completely and it serves town no purpose.

The answer to his question is within the very post he's quoting.

I don't think Engima was scumreading BuJaber

Explain 39 in light of Oka's statement. Also, why don't we ask Enigma himself rather than declare reads on his behalf?

sounds like he was doing some weird probability calculations/rvs vote. I don't think that is inherently scummy at this phase of the game, it was like a semi-rvs vote. It's not like BuJaber is going to be lynched this quick in the game.

So he does SR BuJaber. Or are his probability calculations indicative of intent to propose for marriage? And how can a vote based on the

probability of being scum

be considered a RANDOM vote?

What I am saying is that ruru may have not played it optimally for town but maybe she did play it optimally for scum.

The phrasing is still pinging me. "If it's not optimal town play then it maybe scum play!"

SCUM PGO DOES NOT CLAIM. They simply lurk and lure a TPR or two to drop by and BOOOM! That's it. Also PGO doesn't live to LyLo (unless we are lucky enough to have 2 scums down by then already), so ruru is asking to be lynched before LyLo. WHAT is the scum motivation there?

Let's assume the worst. ruru is a scum Vig. She claims to keep the investigatives away. Now why the hell does she do that (thus condemn herself to being lynched) when she could've just used up her vig shot on N1 anyway, and played to live longer?

Maybe I am a bit biased? Maybe it's a playing style thing? I dunno. But being skeptical is one thing ad spreading the seeds of doubt about most everything even the obvious is totally another.

Just my humble opinion.

[AP]

AP, are your reads still confidential?

Most of them are, but I guess it clear I hard TR you and SR Oka.

[Invisibility]

i wouldnt completely rule out ruru!scum. she could have claimed PGO to explain not being the NK

[ruru]

[BuJaber]

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i am confused?

if you're PGO i'm not really sure why you would announce this unless you were trying to like purposefully not get visited. although if you're town i guess that's probably be the point

Not sure why one would pick a PGO if you were town anyways, considering likely more town PRs than scum PRs. Wouldn't town just choose 1 shot vig?
Plus wtf would ruru, as first seed, choose from that pair?

Ruru could always be vengeful scum and trying to get us to pl her?

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i am confused?

if you're PGO i'm not really sure why you would announce this unless you were trying to like purposefully not get visited. although if you're town i guess that's probably be the point

Not sure why one would pick a PGO if you were town anyways, considering likely more town PRs than scum PRs. Wouldn't town just choose 1 shot vig?
Plus wtf would ruru, as first seed, choose from that pair?

Ruru could always be vengeful scum and trying to get us to pl her?

Uh I sorta understand.

Town!ruru being on top spot means mafia will prioritize killing her because they think she has this powerful role. Now that she claimed, I'm sure they'll have second thoughts on if visiting her is actually a good idea.

Now we just have to know if this is scum!ruru or town!ruru.

TBH, scum would likely want to pick one from that pair (PGO or one-shot vig) since it's an extra night kill for them essentially. So this means they would have a good chance to know if she is bluffing or not. Plus several town PR to protect/negate/mitigate/watch/etc. Keep in mind town PRs are less likely to know if she is lying or not.
So ruru's whole play has been decidedly anti-town by either wasting a good town PR opportunity, or calling for herself as a town PR to likely be killed.

Anti-town vs scum vs noob hrrrmmmm...

@Skitter - the above posts give me the impression he's debating whether or not we should pl.
And I'm getting suspicious of it because generally I see that people are either for or against pl's as a concept. If you start talking meta and analyzing posts and all that then it ceases to be a PL... then it's just a regular TR or SR.

@ausuka - weird post to choose to point out and TR for vulcan. You don't think he'd make such a post as scum?

@ruru - individually I SR sando for

I'm off to bed, but yeah your reads on what I would/wouldn't do as scum are spot on, so I'll read through the rest of your stuff there in the morning, seems worthwhile.

Feels like a way to make brass stop looking into him too closely.

But I also have a gut meta scumread on brass. But since this would be weak af way to distance I don't think they can both be scum. Also because my reasoning for sando sr doesn't work if brass is scum.


Likely scum or 2 among the lurkers but too early to tell them apart.

Assuming you are town ruru that would imo point to scum choosing 3 and/or 4 in the draft. If 1 isn't scum they surely will at least try to get one of the earlier picks and risk the duplication.

So all in all .. I think brass is a good place to start. VOTE: brass

Pedit - I don't agree with the oka sr. I can see why he might bother you but I think you're jumping to the wrong conclusion. His enigma comment while perhaps logically wrong is the towniest thing he's done. Unless he is partners with enigma there is no scum motivation to do it. He had to read enigma's post very carefully to come up with thaf explanation for it and in my experience scum don't do that for people they want to defend. Especislly when enigma wasn't even a wagon at the time so it isn't even wking.

[ruru]

Actually @brass do you have any meta where you "pressure vote" lurkers like that?

[BuJaber]

Doesn't calling a pressure vote a 'pressure vote' defeat its purpose?

People won't join a wagon knowing you don't have a case, and the votee in question will know it's a test.

[OkaPoka]

Spoiler:

what are you referring to here?

Being persistent on shading ruru despite the fact (from my own PoV) it's clear she's town and her pick and claim came from a townie mindset.

But is there town motivation?

Again, beating a dead horse. If there's no

scum motivation

it's a town action. There are plenty of town motivation that are best kept hidden and it gets on my nerves -in general- when people persist on dwelling over a certain point to no end. (ex: I was once a Cop, and I got a clear on someone, and the town Vig was persistent on either shooting me or shooting my innocent regardless of the flip of the day lynch. I eventually burst and replaced out after telling them how stupid their play was. It was D2 and I was defending just ONE player. Isn't this reason enough to take a breath and consider the possibilities? Would scum stick their neck this far out to defend a buddy?)

Anyway..

Why wouldn't town pick an investigator role first or at least pretend to be one with the low keyness and then pgo.

People do not think alike nor do they act alike. This is trying to force his own way as the only correct way.

Why wouldn't town pick an investigator role first or at least pretend to be one with the low keyness and then pgo.

Because they'd be a prime target for the NK anyway. If you're #1 in the picking order and you're town, scum will always assume you picked Cop, Role Cop or JK/Tracker. However, TPRs don't know who's town and one of those might be inclined to investigate the person who picked first, hence the claim. (Otherwise it would have been great if she didn't claim and just obv!towned enough to guarantee she gets targeted by the NK on N1).

but why claim now? the plan falls apart completely and it serves town no purpose.

The answer to his question is within the very post he's quoting.

I don't think Engima was scumreading BuJaber

Explain 39 in light of Oka's statement. Also, why don't we ask Enigma himself rather than declare reads on his behalf?

sounds like he was doing some weird probability calculations/rvs vote. I don't think that is inherently scummy at this phase of the game, it was like a semi-rvs vote. It's not like BuJaber is going to be lynched this quick in the game.

So he does SR BuJaber. Or are his probability calculations indicative of intent to propose for marriage? And how can a vote based on the

probability of being scum

be considered a RANDOM vote?

What I am saying is that ruru may have not played it optimally for town but maybe she did play it optimally for scum.

The phrasing is still pinging me. "If it's not optimal town play then it maybe scum play!"

SCUM PGO DOES NOT CLAIM. They simply lurk and lure a TPR or two to drop by and BOOOM! That's it. Also PGO doesn't live to LyLo (unless we are lucky enough to have 2 scums down by then already), so ruru is asking to be lynched before LyLo. WHAT is the scum motivation there?

Let's assume the worst. ruru is a scum Vig. She claims to keep the investigatives away. Now why the hell does she do that (thus condemn herself to being lynched) when she could've just used up her vig shot on N1 anyway, and played to live longer?

Maybe I am a bit biased? Maybe it's a playing style thing? I dunno. But being skeptical is one thing ad spreading the seeds of doubt about most everything even the obvious is totally another.

Just my humble opinion.

ehh i disagree

1) ruru could have claimed later in the day, no need to drop the pgo btw early in the day
2) i guess i shouldn't have assumed enigma's intent but some1 asked me for an opinion on enigma i think so i gave them ti
3) i think engima's vote is less bujaber said x and that i scummy and more bujaber did this and chances are he is scum, but ask enigma i guess
4) my point is it seems like something town and scum could both potentially do, but it is more likely for scum to do. maybe im wrong, you do bring a valid point.
5) i still don't see im spreading the seeds of doubt of almost everything, i didn't like the enigma wagon if that is what you are referring to so yeah i kinda wanted it dead

[brassherald]

Actually @brass do you have any meta where you "pressure vote" lurkers like that?

I have extensive history of doing it with Myloninja on my alt, trying to see if it works for others as well.

[brassherald]

People tend to talk when they are mentioned, it has to do with ego or something, I just want to make it more noticeable.

[OkaPoka]

id hope that people would talk more when they are mentioned

also i don't see how this has anything to do with scumhunting

[brassherald]

id hope that people would talk more when they are mentioned

also i don't see how this has anything to do with scumhunting

I'm scumhunting, I'm just not confident enough in any of my reads to make cases.

Plus, I find its very hard to form a read on someone if they are not participating in the game.

That's just me, though, I might be crazy to want to base my reads on like content.

[OkaPoka]

People tend to talk when they are mentioned, it has to do with ego or something, I just want to make it more noticeable.

how does this have to do with scumhunting

[brassherald]

People tend to talk when they are mentioned, it has to do with ego or something, I just want to make it more noticeable.

how does this have to do with scumhunting

People talk when mentioned, I cannot form a read when people do not talk.

Do you want me to do the thinking portion of this for you, too?

[OkaPoka]

actually if you could go ahead and solve the game for me that would be very nice

[brassherald]

Will do.

[ofrhz]

^ I'm not sure if that made any sense
Basically, I think posts like this make sense and demonstrate attempts at balancing probabilities:

if she was vengeful then she would run the risk of getting cc'd by the actual pgo/vig right?

unless she knew real pgo/vig was on her team, adding an extra layer of wifom

i find things like the bolded to be reach-y as well

yeah kinda, though I read it as more oka playing off of a thought enigma had, not an actual idea he was trying to push

[ofrhz]

But is there town motivation?

Again, beating a dead horse. If there's no

scum motivation

it's a town action.

i actually agree with this. in hindsight, this post was unnecessary and looks like busywork.

AP can be town

[ofrhz]

although tbh i'm now thinking oka is too annoying to be scum

[ruru]

He was pretty tryhard/aggressive scum in 1874 otherwise I'd be thinking the same

[OkaPoka]

bruh dont meta dive me u wont like what you see

[ruru]

What about the hilarious 2014 game where Not_Mafia got quicklynched d1

[OkaPoka]

viewtopic.php?p=7170051&user_select%5B%5D=23817#p717005

only if u have time and want entertainment