Open 726 - Revenge of the Vengeful (Endgame)

[Ankamius]

Vote Count 1.6

[3]

Not_Mafia

- TrinityNZ, Enigma, RadiantCowbells

(L-2)

[2]

Marshmallow Marshall

- Almost50, Rei
[1]

Almost50

- Marshmallow Marshall
[1]

Oath

- Not_Mafia
[1]

RadiantCowbells

- IcemanCh
[1]

Rei

- Oath
Enigma -
IcemanCh -
TrinityNZ -


Not Voting (0):

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline is (expired on 2018-07-24 11:30:00) from now, or July 24th, 10:30 AM CST (GMT-6).

Prodding: N/A
Replacing: N/A

[TrinityNZ]

VC!

yes please!

[IcemanCh]

Hmmmmm sup guys

sup
any comment so far?

Her vote on NM seems a bit empty
I don't see her posting anything else either
trying to get her to engage more I guess

I looked through the list of names and thought the person who named themselves ‘Not_Mafia’ was asking for a vote. So, a random vote.

I’m probably on a different timeline to most of you (it’s evening for me here), so may not be able to post when you’re all at your most active. I usually wake up in the morning to a whole lot of posts, which I can’t do anything about until evening, because (a) I’m too busy in the morning just getting to work and (b) this site is blocked at work. So, you probably won’t hear much from me until evenings my time.

And I’m still getting to grips with how to play this game, so probably won’t post prolifically

I see. It's alright if you have different timezones, just make sure you leave your opinion when you're online

Hey guyz. Checking in. I'm currently driving straight from Utah to.South Carolina with no stops...... so I'm a bit tired.


With that being said I think I might be able to slightly clear the clouds from my head.

I'm torn. I want to vote RC cause he's a turd but I also want to vote Trinity cause I just done playing a game with them and it seems like a good idea..... what to do.


VOTE: RC

Can you clarify the trinity part? Why does it seem like a good idea?
And what made you go with RC over trinity afterall

It was an RVS vote and I was giving Trinity a hard time.

[IcemanCh]

It was a very strange vote on me

You're a turd.... thought that was self explanatory?

[IcemanCh]

Sorry, all for being AFK for so long. I was traveling back from Utah when the game started, was more tired then I thought when I got back, and had a butt load of work to catch up on.

Anyways, I'm here now and ready to kill us some scum.

So far here are my reads.

TrinityNZ - very very small town lean. She's been kind of quiet compared to other games which is a concern to me. However, I've seen her scum play and so far nothing reminds me of it. So I'm giving a very small town lean.
Not_Mafia - Mostly neutral small scum lean. Not really enough to go off of. Seems to be sitting back and watching. Not a total lean towards scum but, I prefer to push non-content providers towards the scum side.
RadiantCowbells - lean town - I like the logic behind the venge kills and who to lynch. It makes sense if we want to avoid scum getting venge kills.
Rei - Nuetral - I want more information about why certain things seemed so important in what was an obvious RVS vote. I'll ask in a follow up post.
Oath - Solid Scum - 1 post a day with Zero content. Needs to turn that around quick.
Marshmallow Marshall - scum lean - I hate the opening and I don't like the Post #31. I think most of MMs content has been empty with a few solid contributing posts.
Almost50 - Mostly neutral small scum lean. Same boat as NM.
Enigma - town lean - Good question, good content, good interactions. I'm liking Enigma for town.

[IcemanCh]

So this is my first veng kill game. Right not I feel a pretty solid read on Oath as being scum. So the questions I have are below.

1. Do we lynch like a normal game? RC kind of suggested that we do not do this and we lynch the next scummiest person.
2. How do we push someone to get more solid reads based on my first question? Do we just assume they are scum and pressure the second scummiest? That way if the second scummiest flips town they have a scum target they can hit for sure?


Sorry, the lynch dynamics in this game setup are just different and I'm trying to get a grasp of them.

[IcemanCh]

Hey guyz. Checking in. I'm currently driving straight from Utah to.South Carolina with no stops...... so I'm a bit tired.


With that being said I think I might be able to slightly clear the clouds from my head.

I'm torn. I want to vote RC cause he's a turd but I also want to vote Trinity cause I just done playing a game with them and it seems like a good idea..... what to do.


VOTE: RC

Can you clarify the trinity part? Why does it seem like a good idea?
And what made you go with RC over trinity afterall

It was an RVS vote and opener. I've played with trinity in the past and was just saying HI I SEE YOU. Same thing with RC but, that game was a toxic drama fest so.... I called him a turd and voted him.

Why does it strike you as odd that I would post this? Seems a weird thing to latch on to but, several people did.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Tomorrow I'll explain y'all the reasons of my strategy. If you're town, you should probably convince us you are. And if you're scum, you should try to lie!

[Marshmallow Marshall]

It was a very strange vote on me

You're a turd.... thought that was self explanatory?

...as a reason to vote someone?

[Marshmallow Marshall]

re

You read N_M in the same way that you read Almost50??

[Marshmallow Marshall]

So this is my first veng kill game. Right not I feel a pretty solid read on Oath as being scum. So the questions I have are below.

1. Do we lynch like a normal game? RC kind of suggested that we do not do this and we lynch the next scummiest person.
2. How do we push someone to get more solid reads based on my first question? Do we just assume they are scum and pressure the second scummiest? That way if the second scummiest flips town they have a scum target they can hit for sure?


Sorry, the lynch dynamics in this game setup are just different and I'm trying to get a grasp of them.

I've thought about it last night. Every single time I played a game where people tried to put up a new voting way that would go better with the setup and was not dicted by setup, town lost. Every time. It draws too much attention, and causes a shitstorm if IIOA. Scum hunt only starts on D2, usually, and is low. D3 is like D1 if noone had asked anything. So I believe the "vote scummiest person and push that person", aka the good ol' way, is what we should do.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey guyz. Checking in. I'm currently driving straight from Utah to.South Carolina with no stops...... so I'm a bit tired.


With that being said I think I might be able to slightly clear the clouds from my head.

I'm torn. I want to vote RC cause he's a turd but I also want to vote Trinity cause I just done playing a game with them and it seems like a good idea..... what to do.


VOTE: RC

Can you clarify the trinity part? Why does it seem like a good idea?
And what made you go with RC over trinity afterall

It was an RVS vote and opener. I've played with trinity in the past and was just saying HI I SEE YOU. Same thing with RC but, that game was a toxic drama fest so.... I called him a turd and voted him.

Why does it strike you as odd that I would post this? Seems a weird thing to latch on to but, several people did.

For me, it is somehow a "fake confusion" from you. Idk, it doesn't feel genuine, natural.

[IcemanCh]

Hey guyz. Checking in. I'm currently driving straight from Utah to.South Carolina with no stops...... so I'm a bit tired.


With that being said I think I might be able to slightly clear the clouds from my head.

I'm torn. I want to vote RC cause he's a turd but I also want to vote Trinity cause I just done playing a game with them and it seems like a good idea..... what to do.


VOTE: RC

Can you clarify the trinity part? Why does it seem like a good idea?
And what made you go with RC over trinity afterall

It was an RVS vote and opener. I've played with trinity in the past and was just saying HI I SEE YOU. Same thing with RC but, that game was a toxic drama fest so.... I called him a turd and voted him.

Why does it strike you as odd that I would post this? Seems a weird thing to latch on to but, several people did.

For me, it is somehow a "fake confusion" from you. Idk, it doesn't feel genuine, natural.

Of course it's not genuine/natural it's an RVS vote. It's completely contrived and pulled out of one's butt.

[Enigma]

I don't support a lynch on Marshmallow atm.
To be honest, don't like either of the two wagons atm (and my vote is on a wagon).

Leashing the vengekills is problematic. It ruins later VCA and lets scum hide in the shadow whilst town do the dirty work. Plus as N_M says, vengekills aren't a democracy and there is no way to see it through.

Ideally, we have two competing wagons for probable scum - where the targets are both voting for each other. Then they can vengekill each other Then we can come up with two new competing wagons for top two for the next day (with the added knowledge post-flip) and repeat.

There are probably about three people I wouldn't mind being one of the two wagons, though will hold onto that for now since we still have some time to see where everyone else is heading.

[TrinityNZ]

VC!

We’re we meant to get a vote count?

[Almost50]

I don't support a lynch on Marshmallow atm.
To be honest, don't like either of the two wagons atm (and my vote is on a wagon).

Leashing the vengekills is problematic. It ruins later VCA and lets scum hide in the shadow whilst town do the dirty work. Plus as N_M says, vengekills aren't a democracy and there is no way to see it through.

Ideally, we have two competing wagons for probable scum - where the targets are both voting for each other. Then they can vengekill each other Then we can come up with two new competing wagons for top two for the next day (with the added knowledge post-flip) and repeat.

There are probably about three people I wouldn't mind being one of the two wagons, though will hold onto that for now since we still have some time to see where everyone else is heading.

Every single approach you may come up with (regarding Venge kills) is subject to WIFOM manipulation.

2 wagons on 2 townies = to town deaths
1 wagon on scum and one on town leading to town lynch is the only one that works (but we won't know that before the two flip)
1 wagon on scum and one on town leading to scum lynch = scum can decide to kill the townie (same as above) or kill someone else, leading us to believe the other wagon was on another scum instead
2 wagons on scum = scum will kill someone else (same as above)

The last 2 mean that we don't really know if the one that didn't get lynched and didn't get vigged is town or scum, because once we see the lynched flip we may assume they spared a partner, but then maybe tha's exactly what they wanted us to believe and we won't be able to tell until the other is flipped.

So, the only way this works is if we have a scum wagon vs a town wagon and then we lynch the townie of them.

Now RC suggested lynching 4th scummiest person. If that flips town they take the scummiest person with them = higher probability of hitting scum

If they flip scum they still take the scummiest (good for us, as it works as a town Vig for scummy slots) or picks someone globally TR'd which keeps us with the scummier players to lynch.

I haven't really thought it out (i.e. didn't put my head into all possibilities and probabilities) but on face value I fancy RC's approach more (although I will follow whatever the majority decides because I don't really have a magical solution that is 100% guaranteed to work)

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Hey guyz. Checking in. I'm currently driving straight from Utah to.South Carolina with no stops...... so I'm a bit tired.


With that being said I think I might be able to slightly clear the clouds from my head.

I'm torn. I want to vote RC cause he's a turd but I also want to vote Trinity cause I just done playing a game with them and it seems like a good idea..... what to do.


VOTE: RC

Can you clarify the trinity part? Why does it seem like a good idea?
And what made you go with RC over trinity afterall

It was an RVS vote and opener. I've played with trinity in the past and was just saying HI I SEE YOU. Same thing with RC but, that game was a toxic drama fest so.... I called him a turd and voted him.

Why does it strike you as odd that I would post this? Seems a weird thing to latch on to but, several people did.

For me, it is somehow a "fake confusion" from you. Idk, it doesn't feel genuine, natural.

Of course it's not genuine/natural it's an RVS vote. It's completely contrived and pulled out of one's butt.

I mean even for a RVS vote, it felt forced.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

I don't support a lynch on Marshmallow atm.
To be honest, don't like either of the two wagons atm (and my vote is on a wagon).

Leashing the vengekills is problematic. It ruins later VCA and lets scum hide in the shadow whilst town do the dirty work. Plus as N_M says, vengekills aren't a democracy and there is no way to see it through.

Ideally, we have two competing wagons for probable scum - where the targets are both voting for each other. Then they can vengekill each other Then we can come up with two new competing wagons for top two for the next day (with the added knowledge post-flip) and repeat.

There are probably about three people I wouldn't mind being one of the two wagons, though will hold onto that for now since we still have some time to see where everyone else is heading.

Every single approach you may come up with (regarding Venge kills) is subject to WIFOM manipulation.

2 wagons on 2 townies = to town deaths
1 wagon on scum and one on town leading to town lynch is the only one that works (but we won't know that before the two flip)
1 wagon on scum and one on town leading to scum lynch = scum can decide to kill the townie (same as above) or kill someone else, leading us to believe the other wagon was on another scum instead
2 wagons on scum = scum will kill someone else (same as above)

The last 2 mean that we don't really know if the one that didn't get lynched and didn't get vigged is town or scum, because once we see the lynched flip we may assume they spared a partner, but then maybe tha's exactly what they wanted us to believe and we won't be able to tell until the other is flipped.

So, the only way this works is if we have a scum wagon vs a town wagon and then we lynch the townie of them.

Now RC suggested lynching 4th scummiest person. If that flips town they take the scummiest person with them = higher probability of hitting scum

If they flip scum they still take the scummiest (good for us, as it works as a town Vig for scummy slots) or picks someone globally TR'd which keeps us with the scummier players to lynch.

I haven't really thought it out (i.e. didn't put my head into all possibilities and probabilities) but on face value I fancy RC's approach more (although I will follow whatever the majority decides because I don't really have a magical solution that is 100% guaranteed to work)

You're pretty right. The only way of lynching that is not the normal one that I would support is, MAYBE, RC's. But I still believe we should stick to lynch the scummiest.

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Right now, I have doubts on N_M. He actually contributed, which is against his town meta... I've never seen him play scum, but does someone know if he acts more contributive as town or scum, or if it's NAI?

[IcemanCh]

Right now, I have doubts on N_M. He actually contributed, which is against his town meta... I've never seen him play scum, but does someone know if he acts more contributive as town or scum, or if it's NAI?

He contributed? Did I miss it?

[IcemanCh]

VOTE: Oath

If we are not using any strategy to votes/veng kills then I think we need to put pressure on Oath. Only three posts and zero content.

@Oath what are your reads? What do you think of the current game state?

[RadiantCowbells]

Why oath over NM?

[Oath]

/shrug

I personally like oath, maybe that biases me.

Hey.
I like you too.


Gut reads one of Rei/Marshmallow is scum for suresies

So VOTE: Rei

[Marshmallow Marshall]

Well, half of N_M's posts were about ISP term, but he actually expressed a legitimate concern about leashing vengekills, which is 100% right. He doesn't feel like the previous games I played with him. Unless it's because I'm town now o.0

[Marshmallow Marshall]

/shrug

I personally like oath, maybe that biases me.

Hey.
I like you too.


Gut reads one of Rei/Marshmallow is scum for suresies

So VOTE: Rei

What is that supposed to mean?