OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)

[the worst]

VOTE COUNT 1.12

Sando (0)

~

skitter30 (0)

~

AP (0)

~

brassherald (1)

~ BuJaber,

BuJaber (2)

~ Enigma, Sando,

Ausuka (0)

~

Skygazer (0)

~

vulcan logician (0)

~

ceejayvinoya (0)

~

ruru (0)

~

ofrhz (0)

~

Invisibility (2)

~ brassherald, OkaPoka,

OkaPoka (1)

~ Invisibility,

Enigma (6)

~ Ausuka, Skygazer, ruru, ofrhz, skitter30, ceejayvinoya,

NOT VOTING:

vulcan logician, AP,

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

day one will end in (expired on 2018-07-25 18:30:00)

mod notes:

- skitter30 v/la Fridays & Saturdays
- quack

[skitter30]

were you just like sitting in wait for that lol?

---

OF COURSE! : ] ~tw

[ruru]

Ruru asked me to consider a possibility so I did?

It's more like I was trying to understand your thought process

Like "the wagon happened quickly with some lolvotes" -> "scum are on the wagon and it's on town" seems like a leap to me and possibly agenda-driven

[BuJaber]

Skitter since I think you're town and I value your opinion, when you get to it comment on my scumpool.

I understand you don't like some of my reasoning wrt to draft picks and Sando, but I've done more sorting since then and when you take the entire process into account Sando becomes part of the pool even if by PoE only because I haven't seen enough for a TR.

And in fact the latest stuff from him is good because it's a lot more black and white. Like he is either overreacting to my lonely vote because he's town and rightfully getting offended or because he's defensive scum lashing out. Pretty much has to be one or the other unlike posting vague general stuff that is hard to intepret. Ehem ehem like a few people in this game (and on this site).

I'm hoping with more posts from her I can figure out which it is.

[BuJaber]

And for what it's worth the only reason I picked a low number was to try and block scum from getting a PR.

Like if the pool of PRs wasn't shared between both town and scum I would have tried to guarantee VT role for myself.

[BuJaber]

Maybe that's giving me a biased perspective that only scum would prioritize low numbers.

[Sando]

I'm right about this. And you agreeing with me about it doesn't automatically make you scum. Incidentally option C is also a viable option for town because townies are honest and forthcoming. The difference between town and scum is that town don't have to worry about getting suspected too much, so options A and B are less problematic. (Though if a townie picks option A that means that either the guy talking about them is scum for faking the meta read or the guy is clueless about the townie's meta and needs to be corrected).

Yes I am but if you had picked option A or B you'd have even more people attacking you I suspect.

Just to reiterate for everyone what A, B and C are:

A) disagree and argue that it is not correct
B) ignore
C) agree

So firstly, you're not right about this, ignoring is by far and away the safest and best option for scum.

Secondly, what you're saying here is that because Brass referenced me if I (C) agree with him, you think I'm scum. If I (A) disagree (B) ignore him, I'm going to be seen as scummy...

So you're saying that I'm always going to be scumread by people no matter what I do, for something someone else said about me, before that person has even flipped.

Your argument is so ass-backwards that I'm honestly trying to wrap my head around how you've come to this conclusion. Alternatively, you're scum and scrambling to defend a terrible, terrible scumcase.

[BuJaber]

Okay fine since I care about my skill in the game more than any win.

Let's say 3 games is a good enough sample to make me question my reality. So the next 3 games that someone analyzes your meta, ignore them.

Then link me the games by PM if you don't get suspected for it.

[BuJaber]

And for the record my niche in recent town games is to scumread things in the early game that nobody else notices. So option A and B would be suspected by the masses.

C you're just unlucky enough to play a game with me.

And if you're town that's just doubly unlucky for both of us because yes I scumread that.

[BuJaber]

I'll get back to you in a sec.

@ruru - do you think brass is more confident in his reads/tone as scum or as town, from your own experience/research?

[Sando]

Let's say 3 games is a good enough sample to make me question my reality. So the next 3 games that someone analyzes your meta, ignore them.

You're making out that he scum/town read me based on meta. He said that:

I'm not scum with both other 4's
I could be scum with one other 4
I could be scum with the 3s or 6s
He also intimated I could be scum with no double-ups

None of that is saying I am scum, scummy, or anything along those lines, it's pure setup speculation.

@Sando - what is CJ?

Town it looks like to me

This is a meta read, note I'm explicitly calling him town. Yes, if he ignored me if I'd said scum then he'd be getting some questions. Ignoring something that is not a case and not talking alignment is not going to generate questions.

[BuJaber]

Yes but his setup spec was about you specifically and what you would do as scum.

He didn't apply it to all 3 people who picked 4.

In fact he was encouraging people to analyze the draft picks based on who the players are and how they'd play as part of a scumteam.

[Ausuka]

@ausuka - just feels like you aren't being controversial and both your votes were on rising wagons.

really? my votes were on you and enigma; both of you had exactly one vote at the time, and I was the first serious vote on enigma. i also scumread okapoka before the oka wagon was a thing. i don't understand how you can have this view of my play.

[Sando]

Yes but his setup spec was about you specifically and what you would do as scum.

He didn't apply it to all 3 people who picked 4.

I was the only person he felt confident giving a read on, but again, he did not say I was scummy or townie, he just said that I don't get a pass. He also references all double-ups/triple-ups.

[Ausuka]

i'm fine with the hypoinno thing as long as it doesn't become a distraction because chances are very high that we don't have a cop at all.

[BuJaber]

Believe me I'd love to find out that I'm wrong about what is scummy or not.

Better to find out you're wrong when you're a relative newbie than when you've become a 15 year veteran of the game.

(When I say what is scummy or not I mean in like 80-90% of times. The other 10-20% is the chance that any action/post no matter how townie it looks from the outside could be scummy because scum are always changing their tactics and trying to appear townie - I am not looking to remove all subjective reasons from the game. That'd be boring and ineffective)

[Sando]

Believe me I'd love to find out that I'm wrong about what is scummy or not.

Others are telling you exactly what I'm telling you, you don't want to listen to people and would rather double down on a bad argument.

i don't really think this is a good reason to scumread him and i feel like the reasoning is kinda weak and ignores context

[BuJaber]

@ausuka - just feels like you aren't being controversial and both your votes were on rising wagons.

really? my votes were on you and enigma; both of you had exactly one vote at the time, and I was the first serious vote on enigma. i also scumread okapoka before the oka wagon was a thing. i don't understand how you can have this view of my play.

That appears to be accurate. When I sorted you I only looked at your ISO and didn't see how many votes were on either.

The naked votes threw me off too I admit.

I'll drop you to a null. Knowing the context of your votes makes the votes NAI instead of scummy while we don't know enigma's alignment.

If enigma flips town your vote looks worse.

But I'd like to know why you unvoted me so quickly if you thought I was scum.

[BuJaber]

Believe me I'd love to find out that I'm wrong about what is scummy or not.

Others are telling you exactly what I'm telling you, you don't want to listen to people and would rather double down on a bad argument.

i don't really think this is a good reason to scumread him and i feel like the reasoning is kinda weak and ignores context

1 person. Who shared an opinion. Who could be wrong.

[Ausuka]

@ausuka - just feels like you aren't being controversial and both your votes were on rising wagons.

really? my votes were on you and enigma; both of you had exactly one vote at the time, and I was the first serious vote on enigma. i also scumread okapoka before the oka wagon was a thing. i don't understand how you can have this view of my play.

That appears to be accurate. When I sorted you I only looked at your ISO and didn't see how many votes were on either.

The naked votes threw me off too I admit.

I'll drop you to a null. Knowing the context of your votes makes the votes NAI instead of scummy while we don't know enigma's alignment.

If enigma flips town your vote looks worse.

But I'd like to know why you unvoted me so quickly if you thought I was scum.

I didn't think you were scum, I didn't think anyone was scum at the time so I placed a random vote. I voted Enigma when I thought he was scum.

[Ausuka]

really? i kinda got the vibe that he couldn't be bothered to make up a reason and that he hopped on cuz other people are doing it.

Does this really happen though? Like I don't think mafia ever think "lol i dont care enough to make up a reason so ill just hop on this wagon here lol", unless it would be odd for them specifically I think they'd just try to justify their actions. I don't think it takes much effort to make up a reason to scumread someone, especially if that player is scummy enough to get wagoned.

[BuJaber]

Alright

Since you're here..
Do you still like the enigma wagon?
Who else do you find scummy?
What do you think of oka?
Have you played with brass and/or Sando before?

Pedit - I agree with this. But it's weird how he insists on linking his vote with game theory like it makes it more legit.

[Ausuka]

Do you still like the enigma wagon?

Yes, on the merits of Enigma's posting. I may have some doubts but that can wait.

Who else do you find scummy?
What do you think of oka?

I still feel oka is kinda scummy but can't justify that? My strongest scumread outside Enigma is brassherald. If enigma is town there's scum in {ofr, skitter} IMO.

Have you played with brass and/or Sando before?

Yes, both of them multiple times.

Pedit - I agree with this. But it's weird how he insists on linking his vote with game theory like it makes it more legit.

Uhhh. This confuses me. I don't think Invis did anything along those lines?

[BuJaber]

@ausuka - oh thought it was about enigma.. ignore the pedit.

Is the inverse association between enigma and ofr/skitter just because they're voting for him or is there something else?

Since you have some idea how they play, di you agree with brass's assessment on what Sando would or wouldn't do as scum?
Do you have any meta tells on them?

[the worst]

quack