OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)

[the worst]

VOTE COUNT 1.13

Sando (0)

~

skitter30 (0)

~

AP (0)

~

brassherald (1)

~ BuJaber,

BuJaber (2)

~ Enigma, Sando,

Ausuka (0)

~

Skygazer (0)

~

vulcan logician (0)

~

ceejayvinoya (0)

~

ruru (0)

~

ofrhz (0)

~

Invisibility (2)

~ brassherald, OkaPoka,

OkaPoka (1)

~ Invisibility,

Enigma (6)

~ Ausuka, Skygazer, ruru, ofrhz, skitter30, ceejayvinoya,

NOT VOTING:

vulcan logician, AP,

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

day one will end in (expired on 2018-07-25 18:30:00)

mod notes:

- no change in votes, just calling it a night! Gn all
- skitter30 v/la Fridays & Saturdays
- quack

[Invisibility]

Hi
If I don’t unvote oka now I will deathtunnle until the ends of time
I now have no scumreads
I’ll make a PoE pool when I get home

[Invisibility]

There was no unvote tag there ok
UNVOTE:

[ofrhz]

I still feel oka is kinda scummy but can't justify that? My strongest scumread outside Enigma is brassherald.

If enigma is town there's scum in {ofr, skitter} IMO.

why?

[ofrhz]

Believe me I'd love to find out that I'm wrong about what is scummy or not.

Others are telling you exactly what I'm telling you, you don't want to listen to people and would rather double down on a bad argument.

i don't really think this is a good reason to scumread him and i feel like the reasoning is kinda weak and ignores context

1 person. Who shared an opinion. Who could be wrong.

is this still talking about sando's reaction to brass's analysis of his scumgame? if it is, then fwiw, i agree with sando and skitter

[BuJaber]

Let's make sure we're all talking about the same thing.

Skitter said she thought my reasoning is weak and she doesn't think Sando is scummy.

But my long discussion with Sando actually became about a whole different thing now. It is about a much more general thing: whst is the safest reaction as scum to someone describing things you would do as scum, correctly. Sando thinks it's ignore. I think ignoring would be suicide. So I asked him to provide me evidrnce of ignoring working in his favor in the future.

[BuJaber]

I think he will he seems like a man of action.

So I'm dropping the theory talk until such time.

[BuJaber]

Besides if brass flips scum I'll get my clear on sando which is basically what matters here if he's town. Regardless of whether or not you agree with how I arrive at my reads, accurate reads are what matters.

[brassherald]

@Mod my fiancee and I just broke up, I'm going to be a mess for a few days, just replace me please.

[Invisibility]

Sando - leantown
skitter30 - town
AP - null
brassherald - slight townlean
BuJaber - townlean
Ausuka - town
Skygazer - null
vulcan logician - siteflaked?
ceejayvinoya - null
ruru - townlean actually
ofrhz - town
OkaPoka - townlean
Enigma - null
{AP, Skygazer, Ceejay, Enigma, vulcan}
VOTE: vulcan logician

[ruru]

...

[ruru]

@tw vulcan is due for prod

Bujaber/sando feels kinda tvt

@skitter/ceejay/anyone else who's played with him do you have a good read on sando yet?

{ofrhz, skitter, ceejay}
{BuJaber, Ausuka, Skygazer, Sando}
{AP, vulcan}
{Oka, brass-slot}
{Enigma, Invis}

[ofrhz]

Let's make sure we're all talking about the same thing.

Skitter said she thought my reasoning is weak and she doesn't think Sando is scummy.

But my long discussion with Sando actually became about a whole different thing now. It is about a much more general thing: whst is the safest reaction as scum to someone describing things you would do as scum, correctly. Sando thinks it's ignore. I think ignoring would be suicide. So I asked him to provide me evidrnce of ignoring working in his favor in the future.

Okay I think some of your back and forth makes more sense here. Aside from the “Sando agreeing with brass” thing, do you have a read on Sando?

[ofrhz]

@Mod my fiancee and I just broke up, I'm going to be a mess for a few days, just replace me please.

Sorry to hear that brass. Take it easy

[skitter30]

@ruru.@Oka: Can we like.. shut this conversation about claims off?

If I was scum I would have loved you both for the amount of ideas you're giving me.

P.S. I am now leaning town on Oka, I'm more inclined to believe it's his argumentative playstyle that's annoying me, but I can certainly see the town motive behind his play, and I think it bad for scum!him to do this.

UNVOTE:

pinging me

--

Let's go about it a different way.
Town talks about one of the scum's meta and is pretty accurate. How do you imagine scum responds to that? I see 3 options.
A) disagree and argue that it is not correct
B) ignore
C) agree

honestly i think he could have just ignored it and moved on without anyone really noticing or commenting on it.

i don't really understand your sando read tbh. like i don't get how you reached the conclusion 'sando is deliberately trying to discourage brass from thinking about him too much'; i think he was just acknolwedging that brass was correct and i don't think there was much scum motivation therein, or at least, i don't think it's much scummier than just ignoring him. i feel like you've kinda blown this out of proportion abit

If there's another option please enlighten me. But basically A and B suck for scum. They will likely bring a lot of suspicion on them. The person with the meta read would definitely pursue it at a minimum even if others ignore it.

And judging by past games if a past game is linked to prove that the scum player does play the way the town player suggested then that is probably going to end up lynching the scum.

i don't think that sando was going to get lynched because brass correctly said that sando doesn't agree to have all three scum pick the same number; if anything he was pointing out a reason to not-scumread his draftpick.

like the bolded is kinda a stretch imo and i don't think was going to be an immediate precipitate for sando being lynched

--

im going to actually have to agree here with the folks on the enigma wagon that enigma's refusal to take his semi-rvs vote off or make a case against bujaber is fishy. furthermore enigma's admission to not really scumhunting is throwing me for a loop here, we are 16 pages in soo

enigma is town because how the wagon formed is scummy as hell

ok, which is it?

and if there's scum on the wagon who is it?

--

Then we fundamentally disagree. Ignoring it is terrible.

Also why do people always do that with me. Just because you are claiming I have misread you doesn't mean you have to disagree with every point I make.

I'm right about this. And you agreeing with me about it doesn't automatically make you scum.

i think you're scumreading him for having a differece in playstyle from you and not for anything like actually ai imo.

i'm basically trying to decide now if you like actually believe that this is a good reason to scumread him or if you're like trying to find reasons to scumread him

--

svs is engima scum and enigma wagon is also scum

What changed between 392 and now?

he's answering the following question from bujaber; i don't think this post announces a change in position

When y'all are saying SvS you mean scum is on the enigma wagon and enigma is scum?

--

Skitter since I think you're town and I value your opinion

, when you get to it comment on my scumpool.

I understand you don't like some of my reasoning wrt to draft picks and Sando, but I've done more sorting since then and when you take the entire process into account Sando becomes part of the pool even if by PoE only because I haven't seen enough for a TR.

And in fact the latest stuff from him is good because it's a lot more black and white. Like he is either overreacting to my lonely vote because he's town and rightfully getting offended or because he's defensive scum lashing out. Pretty much has to be one or the other unlike posting vague general stuff that is hard to intepret. Ehem ehem like a few people in this game (and on this site).

I'm hoping with more posts from her I can figure out which it is.

a) so things like the bolded are low-key making me think you're trying to buddy me tbh

b) i think i explained my position on your sando scumread above, lmk if you need me to elaborate. tldr i don't see scum-motivation in that post and i think that you're at best scumreading him for having a different playstyle/game philosphy than you and that at worst you're trying to find reasons to scumread him

c)

{Vulcan, ausuka, brass, enigma, sando}

Could go either way: {AP, invisibility, skygazer}

i would take sky out for now as i'm low-key townleaning her;

i'm roughly null on ausuka, sando, ap;
nullscum on vizzy,
scum on enigma;
vulcan and brass are somewhere between nullscum and and null.

i don't think we're like ready to have the day end yet but i'd put everyone below null in a tentative lynchpool.

i don't know where to put you right now
--

really? i kinda got the vibe that he couldn't be bothered to make up a reason and that he hopped on cuz other people are doing it.

Does this really happen though? Like I don't think mafia ever think "lol i dont care enough to make up a reason so ill just hop on this wagon here lol", unless it would be odd for them specifically I think they'd just try to justify their actions. I don't think it takes much effort to make up a reason to scumread someone, especially if that player is scummy enough to get wagoned.

i feel like he didn't know where to vote and he saw people voting there so he just hopped on

--

Hi
If I don’t unvote oka now I will deathtunnle until the ends of time
I now have no scumreads
I’ll make a PoE pool when I get home

is death-tunneling a thing you usually do?

--

@Mod my fiancee and I just broke up, I'm going to be a mess for a few days, just replace me please.

i'm really sorry to hear that and i hope that you're ok :)

--

@skitter/ceejay/anyone else who's played with him do you have a good read on sando yet?

so he's one of those players that i have a hard time reading because they have a very rational playstyle that i tend to want to townread for just making sense (and like i scumread him and kinda mislynched him, oops, last game for pushing something that didn't make sense to me)

beyond the 'just making sense' bit i don't think he's done much ai or hard to fake either way

early game i felt he was more cage-y than usually but that might have been a leadup to his v/la with his gf so idk if that's ai; i haven't really felt that way since he came back

or tldr null because i don't know if he's done much ai either way

--

yay real-time again

aside i usually say i'm v/la saturdays but have usually been around saturday night in the past; i'm really v/la saturdays now; don't expect much from me till sunday in general

[ofrhz]

Sando - leantown
skitter30 - town
AP - null
brassherald - slight townlean
BuJaber - townlean
Ausuka - town
Skygazer - null
vulcan logician - siteflaked?
ceejayvinoya - null
ruru - townlean actually
ofrhz - town
OkaPoka - townlean
Enigma - null
{AP, Skygazer, Ceejay, Enigma, vulcan}
VOTE: vulcan logician

Why did you pick Vulcan, the guy who you think siteflaked, here over other null reads?

[ruru]

The weird thing about it is that I think invis is the kind of player who would know better than to write that post as scum

but like it's still scummy anyway

[ruru]

@ruru.@Oka: Can we like.. shut this conversation about claims off?

If I was scum I would have loved you both for the amount of ideas you're giving me.

P.S. I am now leaning town on Oka, I'm more inclined to believe it's his argumentative playstyle that's annoying me, but I can certainly see the town motive behind his play, and I think it bad for scum!him to do this.

UNVOTE:

pinging me

What do you think about 184-186 btw?

[ruru]

also I think AP writes 377 as either alignment

[OkaPoka]

@skitter30 i think i answered your questions but now im leaning most towards orfhz being the scum assuming enigma is town
@sando yeah bussing isn't a new concept it's just i wasn't considering it, call me a retard whatever, don't think it is likely tho in this case

[OkaPoka]

retard might not be the PC term, maybe dumb or slow

[Enigma]

enigma lets say you are town,

who scum?

Ok, not normally super big fan of lists but lets add my contribution in case I go poof...

Let's just start with my wagon since 14 ppl are a lot and I've been skimming over quite a few posts/players. Will add more later if I have time and when I'm less hungry.
Town lean
lolwhatruru - The entrance just did not make any sense to me, perhaps I just don't know her play and from reading the one scum PT posted it was pretty overwhelming. But recent contributions, particular the questioning feels town.
Skygazer - I feel scum would not be this stubborn and push so hard on my wagon (a mislynch btw)

Null lean
orfhz - Makes logical assessments, looks at a range of posts to make conclusions. Feel like actively scum hunting rather than jumping and staying on an easy wagon. Though hasn't really tried to paint me as scum, nor try to validate that claim or consider alternatives.
skitter - too much text to read. her analysis seems to ping-pong places (e.g. liking the draft analysis by brass, but then also stating that draft speculation is bad). Also, things such as obvtown based on meta just don't feel the best sometimes - I feel town would be a bit more cautious.

Scum lean
CJ - Hasn't really put up a good reason to jump on an easy wagon (outside of the first post I made), jumped on/off my wagon, hasn't tried to look into the wagon more or even scum hunted .. just slipping under
Ausuka - Feel like she has just enjoyed riding this wagon after jumping on earlier, with no effort to validate her suspicions or make associations out others

Also, I feel new wagons (e.g. Invis) at this point are not looking good and a sign of disassociation with scum on my wagon. Will discuss later

[OkaPoka]

@enigma im getting the impression that orfhz doesn't want to get his/her hands dirty, you?

[the worst]

the pagetop..... it calls for me

[the worst]

quack