OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)

[the worst]

VOTE COUNT 1.14

Sando (0)

~

skitter30 (0)

~

AP (0)

~

brassherald (1)

~ BuJaber,

BuJaber (2)

~ Enigma, Sando,

Ausuka (0)

~

Skygazer (0)

~

vulcan logician (1)

~ Invisibility,

ceejayvinoya (0)

~

ruru (0)

~

ofrhz (0)

~

Invisibility (2)

~ brassherald, OkaPoka,

OkaPoka (0)

~

Enigma (6)

~ Ausuka, Skygazer, ruru, ofrhz, skitter30, ceejayvinoya,

NOT VOTING:

vulcan logician, AP,

with 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.

day one will end in (expired on 2018-07-25 18:30:00)

mod notes:

- Vulcan logician has been prodded (x1)
- looking for a replacement for brassherald
- skitter30 v/la Fridays & Saturdays
- quack

[OkaPoka]

okay engima, what's the deal with your vote still? is bujaber still your top scumread? I'm not seeing any indication of you trying to figure out BuJaber. Are you doubling down?

[the worst]

CARDI B REPLACES BRASSHERALD

diamonds all over her body,

please welcome and/or party with her

[Cardi B]

Cawdi

[Sando]

But my long discussion with Sando actually became about a whole different thing now. It is about a much more general thing: whst is the safest reaction as scum to someone describing things you would do as scum, correctly. Sando thinks it's ignore. I think ignoring would be suicide. So I asked him to provide me evidrnce of ignoring working in his favor in the future.

That's just the part you've decided to engage with. You've also:
- Said that scum definitively is playing optimally whilst accusing me of doing research, research which shows 4 is the most commonly townpicked number
- Specifically said that based on a single persons post about me, no matter what my reaction, I'd be scummy. This is bad enough when it's based on a post that I make, but when it's someone else making a post it crosses into absurdity.

[Sando]

@Mod my fiancee and I just broke up, I'm going to be a mess for a few days, just replace me please.

Shit, sorry Brass, all the best.

[Enigma]

okay engima, what's the deal with your vote still? is bujaber still your top scumread? I'm not seeing any indication of you trying to figure out BuJaber. Are you doubling down?

No, don't think Bujaber is super scummy actually. Wasn't a fan of your wagon. I think it is a bit of a lost cause and a distraction starting a brand new wagon on others, especially in my position. I could be convinced about an Invisibility vote but to be honest, I got a bit busy trying to respond to questions and defend myself than actively scum-hunting (outside of those who were engaging with me).

Lets just do an UNVOTE:

[Enigma]

@enigma im getting the impression that orfhz doesn't want to get his/her hands dirty, you?

I feel that's the argument for several of the non-town reads on my wagon lol, not just orfhz.

[skitter30]

@ruru.@Oka: Can we like.. shut this conversation about claims off?

If I was scum I would have loved you both for the amount of ideas you're giving me.

P.S. I am now leaning town on Oka, I'm more inclined to believe it's his argumentative playstyle that's annoying me, but I can certainly see the town motive behind his play, and I think it bad for scum!him to do this.

UNVOTE:

pinging me

What do you think about 184-186 btw?

low-key surprised that i'm the person he decided to sheep; i don't think he's townreading me that strongly or anything

i was kinda wondering if he was just waiting for someone else to vote so he could sheep them
--

skitter - too much text to read. her analysis seems to ping-pong places (e.g. liking the draft analysis by brass, but then also stating that draft speculation is bad). Also, things such as obvtown based on meta just don't feel the best sometimes - I feel town would be a bit more cautious.

whoops, sorry; i always tell myself i'll catch up in chunks but then never do; i try to keep my posts readable tho so sorry you haven't felt they were

i liked brass's draft analysis because i liked the degree of thought he put into it and the degree of nuance that post exhibited. i'm not saying that draft speculation is broadly bad so much as noting that i think play >>>> draft and that it oughtn't form the basis of reads.

i think ruru's hilariously out of her scumrange and i've correctly read her that way on like page 3 of the last game i played with her

--

@enigma im getting the impression that orfhz doesn't want to get his/her hands dirty, you?

what do you mean by this?

--

Cawdi

hi!!!!

--

okay engima, what's the deal with your vote still? is bujaber still your top scumread? I'm not seeing any indication of you trying to figure out BuJaber. Are you doubling down?

No, don't think Bujaber is super scummy actually. Wasn't a fan of your wagon.

I think it is a bit of a lost cause and a distraction starting a brand new wagon on others, especially in my position.

I could be convinced about an Invisibility vote but to be honest, I got a bit busy trying to respond to questions and defend myself than actively scum-hunting (outside of those who were engaging with me).

Lets just do an UNVOTE:

kinda townie actually

you're not really feeling that survivalistic tbh; i kinda think that scum here would be trying to find an alternate wagon to jumpstart and that's not really happening here imo

Also, I feel new wagons (e.g. Invis) at this point are not looking good and a sign of disassociation with scum on my wagon. Will discuss later

can you elaborate on this please?

[OkaPoka]

town ppl liek to get involved while scum ppl dont liek to dirty their hands if possible and let town dirty their hands and get hung for it

[skitter30]

i guess more what i meant is why you think ofrhz is exhibiting that behavior?

[OkaPoka]

because she seems to be asking questions and making comments but not really pushing anything hard

[BuJaber]

Let's make sure we're all talking about the same thing.

Skitter said she thought my reasoning is weak and she doesn't think Sando is scummy.

But my long discussion with Sando actually became about a whole different thing now. It is about a much more general thing: whst is the safest reaction as scum to someone describing things you would do as scum, correctly. Sando thinks it's ignore. I think ignoring would be suicide. So I asked him to provide me evidrnce of ignoring working in his favor in the future.

Okay I think some of your back and forth makes more sense here. Aside from the “Sando agreeing with brass” thing, do you have a read on Sando?

For a guy who stated that he thinks ignoring is a good strategy he isn't ignoring much. That's either because he's telling the truth and iz town or because he's scum WIFOMing.

If he were the first attacker I'd say his stubbornness would be ai, but considering his case on me is an omgus counter reaction I'm failing to see the scum motivation to do all this.

I'm new to most of the playerbase, had an early wagon on me, haven't earned my influence yet in this game. Why attack me now if scum? Does he think I'm lynchbait? Does he have the foresight that it's better to lynch me early? That would require him to research my towngames and see how I tend to obvtown. If he's generally a researcher it wouldn't be ai, but if he looked up everyone he didn't know just for this game that would be scummy.

The discussion is a distracting tactic that pulls away from the main wagon. Such tunneling is usuallg town indicative so the only bdnefit I can see for scum is if enigma is scum.

So if I ignore the brass association and if enigma is town sando would be a TR.
Otherwise scum.

[BuJaber]

i don't think that sando was going to get lynched because brass correctly said that sando doesn't agree to have all three scum pick the same number; if anything he was pointing out a reason to not-scumread his draftpick.

The point wasn't clear in the quote. I was saying that in scenario A if scum disagree with someone's analysis of their scum meta snd then that someone linked a past game as evidence the scum would be caught and lynched.

[Sando]

If he were the first attacker I'd say his stubbornness would be ai, but considering his case on me is an omgus counter reaction I'm failing to see the scum motivation to do all this.

You're trying to tell the person that interacted with me about case I was about to bring on you and waited over a VLA to make, that it's simply OMGUS?

Shade shant work for you here scumbo!

[Sando]

The point wasn't clear in the quote. I was saying that in scenario A if scum disagree with someone's analysis of their scum meta snd then that someone linked a past game as evidence the scum would be caught and lynched.

There's zero risk of this for me, I haven't finished any games as scum since returning to the site (unless you count a 5min marathon game), and no-one is going to take seriously a scumgame from 10 years ago as part of a meta read.

[BuJaber]

But my long discussion with Sando actually became about a whole different thing now. It is about a much more general thing: whst is the safest reaction as scum to someone describing things you would do as scum, correctly. Sando thinks it's ignore. I think ignoring would be suicide. So I asked him to provide me evidrnce of ignoring working in his favor in the future.

That's just the part you've decided to engage with. You've also:
- Said that scum definitively is playing optimally whilst accusing me of doing research, research which shows 4 is the most commonly townpicked number
- Specifically said that based on a single persons post about me, no matter what my reaction, I'd be scummy. This is bad enough when it's based on a post that I make, but when it's someone else making a post it crosses into absurdity.

First point can you show me where.
Second point yes that's my case on you but that wasn't what ofrhz waa agreeing/disagreeing with.
I need to know when people are disagreeing with me about a general opinion on mafia strategy and when they are agreeing/disagreeing on a specific read

[BuJaber]

If he were the first attacker I'd say his stubbornness would be ai, but considering his case on me is an omgus counter reaction I'm failing to see the scum motivation to do all this.

You're trying to tell the person that interacted with me about case I was about to bring on you and waited over a VLA to make, that it's simply OMGUS?

Shade shant work for you here scumbo!

Y
Are you reading? That point is in your favor

[BuJaber]

Still disagreeing about things that are just fact because you think everything is about you specifically.
And if you want it about this in particular:
Why as scum would you disagree with his meta analysis? There's no value to it. ESPECIALLY if it is based on a game that is 10 years ago as you say.

[Sando]

Are you reading? That point is in your favor

I care not about your scumread on me, I care that you're trying to cast shade on me to discredit my case.

[BuJaber]

And you really are very comfortable with this group if you think you can avoid a lynch had you disagreed with brass amd he provided evidence to show that you are wrong.

Why would we ignore something huge like that? If it got down to brass bringing in past games he would successfully make it a 1v1 and if you ended up looking like a liar you would be lynched first.

[BuJaber]

You only think it's what I'm doing because you have created a reality for yourself where I am scum.

As soon as you see I am town poof goes all ill intentions you are perceiving.

[Sando]

And you really are very comfortable with this group if you think you can avoid a lynch had you disagreed with brass amd he provided evidence to show that you are wrong.

Why would we ignore something huge like that? If it got down to brass bringing in past games he would successfully make it a 1v1 and if you ended up looking like a liar you would be lynched first.

He could not possible have provided evidence to show that I'm wrong, even if I had decided to "lie" (is it really lying? Whatever) and disagreed with him. It does not exist...this is my only account, you can have a look for yourself. Won't take you long, any completed game from this year in my history is me as town (other than a marathon game).

I could have done a, b or c, and no-one would have or should have batted an eyelid, and certainly no-one could have provided evidence to gainsay it. This is an absolutely terrible, atrocious line of accusation from you.

In your own words, whichever option I went with you'd have expected me to be scumread. Given that's based on me reacting to someone elses words, how can you not see that this is an absolutely terrible way to scumhunt?!?!?!

[ruru]

This really looks like tvt

low-key surprised that i'm the person he decided to sheep; i don't think he's townreading me that strongly or anything

i was kinda wondering if he was just waiting for someone else to vote so he could sheep them

That's also what I was wondering

I also find it notable that he's hard-townreading me when like he has a history of scumreading me for no reason and it would be pretty risky for him to do that as scum because I also have a history of violently omgusing him

I think it might also be due to some conversations we had in between this game and the last game I played with him though and him better understanding how I think?

So like his townread on me doesn't particularly feel scum-motivated but it's probably slightly scummy in a bayesian sense

Also while I don't really think of pockety posts as inherently scummy and town do it just as much, the thing with sheeping you was spooky because we have no way of knowing what his reads actually were, and so it makes me wonder if other pockety posts from him actually do have scum motivation

That being said I tr some of his other posts and history shows I have zero ability to correctly read AP on early days anyway so lol

[BuJaber]

He could not possible have provided evidence to show that I'm wrong, even if I had decided to "lie" (is it really lying? Whatever) and disagreed with him. It does not exist...this is my only account, you can have a look for yourself. Won't take you long, any completed game from this year in my history is me as town (other than a marathon game).

I could have done a, b or c, and no-one would have or should have batted an eyelid, and certainly no-one could have provided evidence to gainsay it. This is an absolutely terrible, atrocious line of accusation from you.

In your own words, whichever option I went with you'd have expected me to be scumread. Given that's based on me reacting to someone elses words, how can you not see that this is an absolutely terrible way to scumhunt?!?!?!

So you're an exception to the rule. That's a coincidence. Scum who lie and get caught would get lynched is the general rule. Considering this is our first game together, I couldn't possibly have known this much about you.

A is because of circumstance. B we disagree with. C yes I have to convince others to see my point not something others would necessarily notice. Town can do any of the 3 options as long as they don't lie. Scum can only do C without risk. Considering it's day 1 margin of error is big and I'd rather assume you're scum taking the only option available than town taking 1 out of 3 options.

Let's just hope we don't roll scum together in a future game.

How would you feel about oka/CJ if enigma flips scum, and if enigma flips town?


@everyone - anyone townreading brass and why?