Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[nancy]

some people, including myself to an extent, feel that being overly defensive is indicative of scum alignment

I think that's silly. It's not that simple. Being defensive is a sign that you're being defensive. If someone is being defensive, why are they being defensive? The answer to that question is a clue that may lead you to their alignment.

[nancy]

@flicker i think formerfish has a decent chance at being scum, but I'm townreading quick right now.

Where did these reads come from?

[nancy]

but then again i have better scumreads than formerfish being scum so actually i think rn the highest chance is both ff and quick being town

...What?

You just called FF scum.

Is he mafia, or is he town?

You make no sense.

[nancy]

I'm saying you're tonally off in that sense. Like yeah, it gave me that impression, but I haven't seen that pushing or prodding. You've been passive and all your questions seem superficial. To me, you're coasting and giving an illusion of participating. You called people scummy, but then become wishy washy. Case in point, your reads list. Most of your reads are null/slightly scummy. The person who you seemed to shade, Flicker, you didn't even announce as scum? You never gave an actual read (unless I'm blind) and despite alluding to her being scum, and you being confident, I don't see that drive to see her lynched.

Thus, you are scum

I think your conclusion about his alignment is connected to the reasoning that you've presented in a way that makes sense.

[OkaPoka]

meh i kinda left that idea, they are both tr's for me

i think i explained quick? if not assume i said something really compelling and quote things about interactions

as for FF im pretty sure he is town because interactions and the fact that he left my wagon for a pretty low potential wagon but I have still have a running theory on reading him that is going to need more time to resolve itself

i guess i dont really make sense, at that time i was thinking ff had a good chance of being scum, then i thought to myself there are more scummy people ahead of him so meh probably not

[nancy]

Honestly, I don't care or want to know about you debunking anything about my scum read on you. If I think you're scum why would you say anything truthful to me?

What I do care about is how everyone else reacts to my reads and debunks or proves it. I also care about your reads on other people and how you prove them.

I really strongly agree with this approach, as long as you don't let confirmation bias bleed into your read and start assuming that you're right and that everything that your scumread is saying and doing is a lie. Always keep an open mind and be ready to reassess if something happens to challenge your worlds.

[nancy]

I'm saying you're tonally off in that sense. Like yeah, it gave me that impression, but I haven't seen that pushing or prodding. You've been passive and all your questions seem superficial. To me, you're coasting and giving an illusion of participating. You called people scummy, but then become wishy washy. Case in point, your reads list. Most of your reads are null/slightly scummy. The person who you seemed to shade, Flicker, you didn't even announce as scum? You never gave an actual read (unless I'm blind) and despite alluding to her being scum, and you being confident, I don't see that drive to see her lynched.

Thus, you are scum

I think your conclusion about his alignment is connected to the reasoning that you've presented in a way that makes sense.

Ugh. I left out the negative auxiliary. Sorry.

I

don't

think your conclusion about his alignment is connected to the reasoning that you've presented in a way that makes sense

[OkaPoka]

wow! contradiction! lets lynch her now

@nancy do you think there is a strong chance that one of ff/me is scum?

[nancy]

i think i explained quick? if not assume i said something really compelling and quote things about interactions

Quick question.

How do you think I'm ever going to be able to get to a townread on you when I have to constantly turn my head around in circles like a voodoo doll just to keep up with your reads?

[nancy]

wow! contradiction! lets lynch her now

@nancy do you think there is a strong chance that one of ff/me is scum?

No.

[OkaPoka]

getting a townread on me is not important as long as there is a better lynch today

yeah my reads are changing very erratically but thats the result of lack of hard conviction in a lot of them + me constantly revisiting my reads and refining them

[nancy]

I would elaborate on that but I'm exhausted and my read on both of you is pretty conflicted right now.

[nancy]

getting a townread on me is not important as long as there is a better lynch today

I don't think I could possibly disagree with this sentiment more than I do.

Your most important job as town, the number 1 thing on your to-do list, your first and highest priority, if you do one thing and absolutely nothing else in the game, should be to clear yourself as town to the rest of town.

You don't have to catch all the mafia. You don't have to catch ANY mafia. If you clear yourself as town, if the rest of town is able to see you as town, you've done your job, that's good enough.

yeah my reads are changing very erratically but thats the result of lack of hard conviction in a lot of them + me constantly revisiting my reads and refining them

Well, you need to clean up your process. If you lack conviction, don't pretend to have conviction. Don't swing around on gut feelings that lead you in 8 directions at once. Slow down. Work through your reasoning and don't abandon it just because your gut leads you the other way. Your gut is a tool to get you to pay attention to something, to investigate it and reason through what you think it means. Gut is not a thing you should rely on any more than meta is. Slow down. Work through your reasoning. Keep notes. Spend time outside of thread figuring out what your reads are and why. Slow down.

Slow. Down.

[nancy]

I feel like quoting the above post ten times because I want you to read it ten times. You really need to learn this lesson, Oka.

And maybe you're just mafia and that's why you're playing like this but if you're town you need to read and reread that post and take everything I wrote in there to heart and try to apply it to your play.

[nancy]

So if you want to talk about my reads on others or your reads on others let's do it.

ok_hand

[OkaPoka]

huh ok

I would disagree on the obv town being town priority tho. Catching mafia should imo be number one priority.

[nancy]

Briefly, it would be something about how catching up and interacting with other people is sort of the bare minimum for any player, with maybe a side of "Are you sure you're not just town reading him for having a similar posting/play style?" depending on how salty I felt. (Admittedly, I also sometimes town read people based on having a similar posting/play style, which is another thing I'm trying to work on.)

I like that Oka asked the question that prompted this response, and I dislike the response. I don't think it makes very much sense for town to be salty about someone getting a townread on someone else unless you scumread the person they're townreading, and I quickly checked Flicker's posts for her stance on Quick and she seems to have him as slightly town, so, this reaction from her doesn't make sense to me if she's town.

[nancy]

huh ok

I would disagree on the obv town being town priority tho. Catching mafia should imo be number one priority.

It really shouldn't and I don't have the energy to explain why coherently or in much detail right now. Maybe another day.

Essentially, though, you should be looking at the game from the following perspective: 8 slots in the game whose alignment you don't know, each with a 75% chance of being town, 3 mislynches before mafia overrun the town. That means if you correctly lock in townreads on 5 slots (and there's only a baseline 25% chance that you can be wrong on it in the first place), you can close your eyes lynch every other slot in the game and you'll win as town.

Now imagine you just forego townreads and only focus on scumreads. What do you do when you reach 5p LyLo with no townreads and 2 mafia alive? You curl up in a ball and cry, that's what. Because if you have no townreads you have no basis from which to solve the game, you have no one who to talk to who you can trust, and it's going to be incredibly easy for the mafia team to manipulate you into a mislynch.

[nancy]

after some thought

i think two of the scum are in
iceman/trinity/eragon

Por qué, hombre?

[nancy]

My process is kinda uneven. Thats why if you look at my game history right now its gonna be all newbie games. I had something personal happen about a year ago and I left the game as a result of my outside emotions not being able to take the emotions of the game. I have recently been feeling better and have been using the games in my attempt to become more active with other people even if it is just in post form. Most of my conversations lately have been with a 5yo, so its nice to be around equals for a bit. Coming back I really wanted to focus on honing my game play, because I felt like I had become to erratic. So in essence its like I went to the majors, got a case of the yips and now I am back down in the minor leagues figuring out who I am again.

Less than three.

Just so you're aware, I generally am not going to get much from you talking to me about my scumread on you, or you trying to address things directly to me that I've said I have concerns about. Unless you think I'm like clearly misunderstanding you and something that I've said needs to be clarified, the way that I'll be able to reassess on you here and get a townread on you if you're town is by you just doing your thing and being as transparent about it as possible.

But um, I think I said in there that I struggle to understand your reads and that's something that you can pretty easily address by, well, talking about them.

So I'm being scumread for a meta case on Oka, but trinity gets an okay sure I guess for a meta read on me that she has even admitted isn't as strong as she thought it was because I was alive for day 1 before she night killed me night 1.

It's a small thing that I dislike, you're not being scumread simply because you have a meta read. That would be silly. And I think you misunderstood the post? I was specifically saying that as a thing that I didn't like about her. It wasn't a "sure, that's fine", it was a "ugh, do you have to", and the span of that thought was that her read was shallow. Did you not get that? Because I felt like I expressed that pretty clearly and I can't tell if you're just looking for a gripe there or not.

[nancy]

My eyes are about to burn holes in my skull, gotta take a break. Bbl.

[TrinityNZ]

some people, including myself to an extent, feel that being overly defensive is indicative of scum alignment

Would it not be fair to say that town could be defensive too, perhaps if they’re feeling that their words are deliberately being twisted or they’re being made to look bad by scum trying to get a mislynch?

[TrinityNZ]

Am I breaking some protocols I’m not aware of LOL?

You know 2.8 caught hella heat for using protocols as an excuse last game, are you intentionally trying to imitate that here?

No, that’s why I put the LOL at the end, and I thought it was more of a question than an excuse.

[TrinityNZ]

Im working on not throwing my vote around like Dirk Digler at a step class.

Best line ever! Thank you, you’ve made my day (which was pretty shitty).

[TrinityNZ]

mahhh, I suppose I overlooked Trinity. I feel like Nancy's 570 kind of represents how I feel. I want Trinity to do more, and she seems to be nooby to me. She isn't really pinging my scum radar, but I get what you mean by her being passive and not being proactive. @Trinity, can you convince me on who your biggest scum read is and why we should Lynch them? @Oka can you do the same?

I’m trying to catch up on today’s posts, so will post something more later, but for now FF is still my biggest scum read. He’s really only been leaning on Oka, and not putting in the effort on others that I would have expected.

What others should I be putting in work on and why do you expect me to be doing that?

This post of mine was superseded once I’d iso’d You and I am now thinking you’re town.