Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[zMuffinMan]

if winding up titus is soooooooo scummy, then i'm the scum lord, yet sando's rather tame #2065 is what made you vote him despite all the misgivings you apparently have with me?

haha yeah, i believe that

[Nancy Drew 39]

I propose that Drixx, Muffin and Sando all get a room together and hash this out. Who’s with me?

[the worst]

o/

[zMuffinMan]

if you can read drixx's posts and tell me he has a valid point about his read (i.e. that something before #2132 was sando "winding up" titus) then i'll stop talking about it altogether

drixx says to double ISO them but there's really not much point because they don't cross post (and didn't at the start of D2), but here's a quick and easy reference starting with sando's first post D2:

viewtopic.php?t=76709&user_select%5b%5d ... #p10325542

[zMuffinMan]

even if you want to give drixx the benefit of the doubt and say he meant all of sando's posts not just the ones before he voted him, go ahead

[Sando]

Go back and read you and Titus in ISO from start of day 2. You are legitimately winding Titus up with no goal that I can discern. It's not only NOT BS, it's precisely how I always operate.

I don't think I've ever actually directed anything towards Titus D2. All I really said was that she's continued along the lines of D1 and done self serving speculation, and I've pointed out that I think it fairly likely scum voted for Titus to be leader.

That's not winding up...

[Nosferatu]

-snip-

Hmmm . . . this is interesting. This lynch would likely clear Muffin, Kasuki and whomever replaced Nico.

this makes no fucking sense

[Titus]

Go back and read you and Titus in ISO from start of day 2. You are legitimately winding Titus up with no goal that I can discern. It's not only NOT BS, it's precisely how I always operate.

I don't think I've ever actually directed anything towards Titus D2. All I really said was that she's continued along the lines of D1 and done self serving speculation, and I've pointed out that I think it fairly likely scum voted for Titus to be leader.

That's not winding up...

Muffin was way worse on winding up...

[MathBlade]

I dunno but I still don’t think it necessarily means anything.

if we're dealing in absolutes, sure. nothing that get said in a mafia game

necessarily

means anything (with the obvious exception of mod confirmation in non-bastard games)

but hey...

BBMolla - Null leaning town
NicoRobin - Null
Randomidget - Null leaning scum
Kokichi Oma - Leaning Town
Katsuki - Null
Myloninja13 - Null leaning scum
Drixx - Null

wow, look at that. only two specific names among the people lurking were "null leaning scum" despite a similar level of content across the board

hmm, probably means nothing

wow, a cursory glance at how he treats a lurking buddy in another game shows a similar way of calling attention to a buddy lurking. know what i can't find in numbers dude (and ircher's) scum games? directly calling out a town player and asking them to provide content. (it may exist, i just couldn't find an example of it - and someone else is free to put the time in to find a counter-example here if they want. he does

mention

lurkers in other games, just not in the same way)

guess it means nothing

(the point here is that there is better reason to assume he was extremely conscious of a buddy lurking than not)

Yes it does mean absolutely nothing.

That is the wrong way to use meta. It has to be a pattern AND similar intent.

I did not have a time to look at that game in depth but without intent you get stupid shit like “MathBlade had a M in their username in this game [cite game of whatever alignment] they must be [insert alignment here]”

Take in contrast the Drixx meta. Not only did I show this is what town him does I showed what scum him does with the same situation. In other words I analyzed the intent.

[MathBlade]

(at the end of the day, mylo is a lurker who has provided virtually zero content and could realistically swing either way and i could very easily be reading too much into what numbers dude said about him and it could just be a coincidence and he happened to be calling out a town player and talking about the scum meta of a town player and so on and so forth)

(but i have town reads on 12 of the other 20 players alive (3 tentative that i need to try to firm up at some point when i have time) and, of the remaining 7 apart from mylo, i see more reason to think some others are town OR the others are more likely to meet resistance for one reason or another)

(for example, human sequencer is probably a good bet for scum but people either think he's town or don't have much of a read on him, so i'm not going there today - tackle that one later after taking out the weaker links)

Oh yes. You’ve “solved” the game and don’t even bother to mention who your townreads are on.

What’cha gonna do if mylo flips green huh? Oh that’s right come after me next. I see exactly what you’re doing and I will have none of it. First you’re going for mylo then me then Drixx all because I said no to your mislynch of Drixx now.

[MathBlade]

Furthermore you fucking admit it could go either way. And that is the person you are pushing right now.

@the worst Assume you have 12 townreads.
Do you A) Stay silent about them
B) Push someone who maybe sorta could be scum
C) Troll most of the entire time
D) Don’t contribute anything towards who should get powers?

[MathBlade]

Votecount 2.8

Leader: Titus

Drixx (3):

Sakura Hana, Sando, Katsuki

Sando (3):

Nosferatu, Drixx, Gamma Emerald

zMuffinMan (3):

the worst, BBmolla, MathBlade

BBmolla (1):

Nancy Drew 39

Brandi (1):

Toranaga

Gamma Emerald (1):

Ankamius

hebichan (1):

Titus

Katsuki (1):

Shiro

Myloninja13 (1):

zMuffinMan

Shiro (1):

hebichan

Ankamius (0):

Frozen Angel (0):

Human Sequencer (0):

Kokichi Oma (0):

MathBlade(0):

Nancy Drew 39 (0):

Nosferatu (0):

Sakura Hana (0):

the worst (0):

Toranaga (0):

Not Voting (5):

Brandi, Frozen Angel, Human Sequencer, Kokichi Oma, Myloninja 13

With

21

players, it takes

11

to lynch.
The day ends in (expired on 2018-07-24 14:00:00).

Toranaga is on V/LA for (expired on 2018-07-23 00:00:00)

Abilities Available for Acquisition

Duplication:

Gain a second vote until the end of the next Day Phase. This second vote doesn't count for parity.

Enhanced Hearing:

Target another player. You will learn if any actions were performed on that player during the current Night Phase.

Impenetrable Skin:

You are protected from one killing action until the next Night Phase.

Power Negation:

Target another player. That player can neither use Superpowers nor be targeted by them until the next Night Phase.

**Precognition:

Learn the next set of Superpowers available for acquisition before they're revealed.

Weather Manipulation:

Target another player. If that player takes Flight, that player dies.

**May be used during the Day but still counts against the following Night's Superpower usage. If used during the Day, resolves immediately. If used during the Night, resolves normally.

We have one fucking day here people.

The only wagon that isn’t completely garbage is MuffinMan or maybe Sando because of some shit he has said. Drixx is obvTown and there is no “case” on Mylo it’s the same debunked meta point

[MathBlade]

VOTE: Drixx this will do I guess?

can someone break down why zMuff is voting Mylo? sorry to be tunnelled ...

You agreed with my Drixx is town case earlier , why the fuck are you voting him now?

FOS The worst

[MathBlade]

Apparently this somehow wasn't clear before - Sando you got voted because you were literally intentionally winding Titus up to no possible town purpose. There was no good motivation to do what you were doing. It was toxic to the game state and so you are either scum and you were doing it to try and get Titus chasing in circles (which would merit re-evaluating Titus) or you were town doing it and just not giving a shit that you were making the game toxic.

Your response to being voted over it was the entire point of the exercise. Let's say I'm not exactly feeling great about your response.

@Math - Bullshit on the idea I shouldn't have a serious side-eye on you for the foreseeable future. Cerb and I were final scum in a game alone as final scum for months and in that game we literally played precisely how we would as town. We literally from the outset of the game all the way through made decisions and took actions that were what we would have done if we were town that game. It came down to someone deciding they would rather lose with us than lose to us in the LYLO we picked, because said person was unwilling to actually put in the time and effort to try and figure it out.

So ... if he and I can lay down a game where there is literally no possible way to logically arrive at any conclusion other than we were town ... so can you ... and you can probably do it with a lot less work than it took us.

@Drixx — I said you SHOULD be paranoid of me.

I also said you were reaction testing.

I don’t get where I said you shouldn’t.

And I have disagreed with you several times on the whole “I did what I always do as town bit”, People don’t. That is a fact. When you squash some differences newer smaller ones always emerge. So much so even professional liars convince themselves of their reality to try to help or just don’t speak. I get that you believe that but the answer is you’re different as the alignments and I can see it. And you can choose to scumread me for it. However that doesn’t change the fact you were different in a noticeable way.

It’s your belief you’d have acted the same and buddied me but the evidence says otherwise. Similar to how people think they would act one way but psychology tests/hidden cameras show another.

I maintain what I said and I still think you are town but if anyone thinks their games are 100% similar needs a reality check. I have been working on mine for decades and got it close but there is about 5 people on MS that just know instantly what alignment I am and I am still working with them when not in active games to find out why.

[MathBlade]

Apparently this somehow wasn't clear before - Sando you got voted because you were literally intentionally winding Titus up to no possible town purpose. There was no good motivation to do what you were doing. It was toxic to the game state and so you are either scum and you were doing it to try and get Titus chasing in circles (which would merit re-evaluating Titus) or you were town doing it and just not giving a shit that you were making the game toxic.

Your response to being voted over it was the entire point of the exercise. Let's say I'm not exactly feeling great about your response.

This is just pure BS from you.

Go back and read you and Titus in ISO from start of day 2. You are legitimately winding Titus up with no goal that I can discern. It's not only NOT BS, it's precisely how I always operate.

FA nailed it. I don't generally telegraph my thoughts early in the game. I will often appear as if I'm just reacting. If you take the time to go look at Cerb and I together in hydra, you will see what's really going on in my own notes and thoughts. I will usually have a bead on someone a long time before anyone knows it and be coming at it obliquely trying to get them to say/do something to either solidify or erode what I'm thinking.

Classic best example of that would be in SU1 where Cerb and I repeatedly had evaluations and tests going on people for long stretches of time that nobody in the main game thread realized were much of anything until we were sure and dumped thoughts.

I make no claims to being amazing at this game. I have some great games on my record and some terrible ones. But you can always be very certain that whatever I'm doing, there's a reason for it. Deliberate action is the point. Rational progression. Otherwise it's all just deciding and making up shit to justify the decision, and that's worse than useless.

Standard disclaimer that I'm not a perfect rational agent.

Also: Try harder. You're actually surprising me in the most recent dozen pages or so, and not in a way that I thought had much probability.


@FA: High five and all that. Who do YOU think needs to be the backup vote in case you get popped? You should also decide who is voting you and who should be voting the backup. Balance risk. I'm happy to give thoughts on folks who I don't think should be assigned together if you would find that useful.

+1 Can definitely confirm this.

It’s why I called out Drixx as reaction testing me when he was. Drixx has his operating procedures when he is town and operates in a certain way. I even said he is incredibly slow in his day one and oh look he is incredibly slow in his day one

#shockedNotSbocked

And I wonder why this muffin wagon isn’t taking off. Because muffin is scum.

[MathBlade]

I propose that Drixx, Muffin and Sando all get a room together and hash this out. Who’s with me?

if winding up titus is soooooooo scummy, then i'm the scum lord, yet sando's rather tame #2065 is what made you vote him despite all the misgivings you apparently have with me?

haha yeah, i believe that

Glad you admit you’re a scumLord.

Guess there isn’t s chance you vote yourself is there so the Drixx v you spat fucking stops?

[MathBlade]

Cool. I am going to bed but FA if you see this please nominate two townreads for leadership this way scum can’t take shit over.

Will brainstorm more tomorrow.

I nominate myself and Ank

I'm ok nominating myself and math too.

both works I think

LEADER VOTES ARE BETWEEN FA ANK AND MYSELF WITH FA TO SPECIFY DOWN TO TWO LATER TODAY

CONSOLIDATION ON LYNCH WAGONS NEEDS TO HAPPEN OR THIS IS ALL FOR NAUGHT

I have to go to work but please people come on

[Sakura Hana]

Oh yeah, reinterating that im voting FA tonight, i think everyone should do the same and say who they're voting so we dont end up with like 20 votes on FA and 1 vote on the other person and then FA dies to some shenanignas.

[Sakura Hana]

I dont trust Math's ability to get accurate reads, i rather have Ank as the other option.

[MathBlade]

I am doing FA too whichever option FA picks.

Pedit wtf? Aren’t our reads similar

Getting ready for work may be slow to respond

[Sakura Hana]

wtf? Aren’t our reads similar

Yours and mine or yours and ank's

[Kokichi Oma]

So. Who is everyone scumreading?

[MathBlade]

Titus and zmuffin I gotta go.

[Titus]

Titus and zmuffin I gotta go.

So you think zmuffin opened the day with the plan to make things harder for his partner?

[Sakura Hana]

Or that he bused Numbers when he didnt need to?
Nah that's not muffin's style as scum i think.