Forgotten Hourglass [Game Over]

[Brian Skies]

LYNCH ALL LIARS

I WAS TOWN ALICE IN THE FIRST ALICE GAME

MUFFINS IS SCUM

VOTE: MUFFINS

ACTUALLY HE LIED ABOUT EVERY GAME

CLEARLY SCUM

What was the first Alice game? From what I can tell, he seems to have been telling the truth there.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Myloninja13

[Brian Skies]

Yeah, but what game was it?

[Brian Skies]

Spiffeh

[Brian Skies]

Do you guys want to know why they call me suspenseful third day

Are you going to pull a Kokichi and make us wait three days?

Throw down a vote.

[Brian Skies]

You're right Spiffeh, whatever was I thinking?

[Brian Skies]

I'm dying.

Spiffeh should be the new Eddie Caine.

[Brian Skies]

Really? I half-expected Spiffeh to try and lynch me off of nothing by now.

[Brian Skies]

Nah, you got the wrong guy.

[Brian Skies]

Well, that makes one of us.

I'm not explaining anything.

[Brian Skies]

[Brian Skies]

>:[

Have you read his posts?

[Brian Skies]

Then why did you ask that question?

[Brian Skies]

Then why did you ask that question?

I asked it before I ISOed him obviously.

[Brian Skies]

Who says I didn't do that on purpose so I could post it twice?

[Brian Skies]

I still have no idea what it is. And I'm the one that made it.

[Brian Skies]

That doesn’t make sense to you?

It does, I just don't know if I buy it.

[Brian Skies]

Vote2: Dunnstral

[Brian Skies]

Alice in Wonderland: Katsuki was

Town

The games that are actually linked to each other as sequels to each other:
Through the Looking-Glass: Katsuki was

Scum

Nightingale's Tale: Katsuki was

Town

Queen of Hearts: Katsuki was

Scum

Minuet's Trio: Katsuki was

Town

Which, if we put Alice in Wonderland where it belongs in the list, still holds to that pattern.

Like, why does Muffin messing up the the chronology of the games even matter to you?

[Brian Skies]

I actually meant to include links and stuff, but can't be bothered to right now.

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, I think it would be hilarious if Katsuki were scum here just because of the pattern, but no, I would not lynch him for that.

[Brian Skies]

Oh right, wouldn't Kuribo in Wonderland mess up the pattern anyway?

[Brian Skies]

uh... what about my case on him do you think is flawed specifically?

Just seems fallacious to me. I'm not smart enough to explain why.

Conversely, I don't really think you missing Alice in Wonderland makes you a liar, just wrong.

[Brian Skies]

Also, if lynching all liars was really a thing, I don't see how Katsuki survives in any game ever.

[Brian Skies]

Brian Skies [2] - Dunnstral x2

[Brian Skies]

I haven't read anything else, just thought that was funny. I'll be back tomorrow.

[Brian Skies]

Forgot this.

VOTE: Katsuki

[Brian Skies]

Posting to state that I shall join Cupcake in his lurking.

[Brian Skies]

You were the first to create this style
You were also the first to create the "pretty transparent town scum" style but I don't know if I've seen you pull that off in a while

I also don't think these are true, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Brian Skies]

Pretty jumpy since all that was asked was that you meaningfully contribute to the thread like a normal person

As opposed to whom?

This is clearly not a normal playerlist, especially since we have a player that only posts in images.

[Brian Skies]

If I try to lynch you it's not off of nothing you silly Ankamius you

I just realized Brian Skies said this and not Ankamius I should really pay attention

And here I thought you did it on purpose. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Brian Skies]

Sad but true.

[Brian Skies]

Fedora Car That I Will Never Afford?

[Brian Skies]

Ohhhhhh...

[Brian Skies]

Clever.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Spiffeh

Sure, I'll bite.

Why Spiffeh?

[Brian Skies]

I think there's a good chance Cupcake is scum.

Whether or not he's actually lynchable today is another issue entirely.

[Brian Skies]

That was a maybe.

[Brian Skies]

2. katsuki is a bad day one

Why?

3. those are not really great reasons lol

They seem fine to me.

4. come vote the mouse. join, the one true wagon. only you can master all 4 elements an-

What is your fascination with the mouse?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Spiffeh

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Myloninja13

[Brian Skies]

Good a reason as any to vote him.

[Brian Skies]

Good a reason as any to vote him.

But what about their posts is particularly scummy?

None of them. Or maybe all of them.

Does it really matter?

[Brian Skies]

For lynching, always.

[Brian Skies]

I have no idea if he's scum or town.

Do you?

[Brian Skies]

I have scumreads. But right now I want to sort Mylo.

[Brian Skies]

So how do you propose to figure out what his alignment is?

[Brian Skies]

Or would you prefer he just prod dodge for the rest of the game?

[Brian Skies]

So how do you propose to figure out what his alignment is?

Wait for him to make more posts. I would rather sort out players that I already think could be scummy than NAI. What do you learn from his flip? Now if you vote Katsuki or Nos, who sheeped his vote on me, there might be some valuable information in that because the chances of them being connected if one of them flips red, is pretty good. Don’t you agree? Even Spiffeh gives us more information than a poster who’s made only 3 posts. As for Sakura not wanting to vote Katsuki for being GOAT in Minuet, that only applies if he’s actually town here and I don’t think he is.

Or would you prefer he just prod dodge for the rest of the game?

I’m not a fan of policy lynches in general. If we don’t have a better lynch than him, fine but I don’t think that’s the case.

I never said this was a policy lynch. I don't do those anyway.

However, we have 3 days left. Should we just let him get a free pass for the day because he chooses not to deliver on his promise of providing content because we just can't tell?

What if he never provides content? Do we just continue to ignore him anyway?

Now, I'm also not saying I'm confident that he's scum or anything. I just have little to no patience for players who sign up to play games

and then not play them

.

I think a lot of things can come from voting, or even running up a player to a lynch, or even lynching them. I don't think

anything

comes from just letting a player do jack all.

[Brian Skies]

I feel less confident about Nos being scum than I do Katsuki.

I also feel less confident in Nos being scum than Katsuki.

Who else do you think is scummy?

[Brian Skies]

Also the mylongninja wagon is bad it's a 3 person lurker that will give no info regardless of the flip.

Take that back. This wagon is beautiful.

[Brian Skies]

also no one on the mylo wagon is even trying to kill him

I am.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian Skies

if u dont have faith in spiffehscum then i can just go on the katsuki wagon and we can let day 1 be won by evil......................

I'm okay with this.

[Brian Skies]

It's more the amount of words he devoted to saying it that bothers me. It seemed like he needed to look like he was doing something so he decided to put a bunch of effort in explaining the pros of waiting to vote which is ultimately pretty useless and he hasn't done much since

It's not a read I'm married to he's just the player I'm most willing to vote for rn idk

You mean how he was explaining why he wanted to do it when you asked him 'why?'

[Brian Skies]

This posting style is exhausting. Purr I really don't get why you're scumreading me of all people I feel I've been pretty transparently town.

Isn't this a scumtell for you?

[Brian Skies]

Brain are you purposely dodging my question or did you miss it for the 2nd time now.

I'm purposefully ignoring it.

[Brian Skies]

Alright, I see some people are getting rowdy so I'll lay down some terms for me starting us off: I want everyone to have meaningful contribution before votes go flying. Reasonable?

[Brian Skies]

You mean how he was explaining why he wanted to do it when you asked him 'why?'

The fact that he was responding to me doesn't make me feel differently???

The reason I bring it up is because his original explanation was much more concise and reasonable, and that's the one you challenged him on.

Alright, I see some people are getting rowdy so I'll lay down some terms for me starting us off:

I want everyone to have meaningful contribution before votes go flying.

Reasonable?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Nos

[Brian Skies]

Also, for the record, I have no idea what Maria's issue with me is or why she can't fathom me voting a contentless lurker.

[Brian Skies]

I think Muffin, Moment, and Purr (who I was scumreading early on but his posts slowly make me feel better as the game goes along) are town. That's pretty much it.

Nancy is probably town (I'll probably comb her posts later, but I don't really feel all that compelled to do so right now).

Projectmatt could be town, but I'm probably biased based on his playstyle.

Dunn

could

be scum, but there isn't anything in this game that makes me think he is, and I thought his initial vote on me felt pretty townish. I don't really care about his 'I'm not voting yet' thing.

The rest of you I have no idea.

I do have some reservations on Nos, but meh. I've never seen him play like this, and I've also admittedly never seen him play scum (at least not to my knowledge).

[Brian Skies]

Thoughts on Maria being scum and the whole pocketing thing, Brian?

What pocketing thing? Nancy? Idk.

This isn't really what I expect from Maria when I play with her, although she did state she was trying something new.

I'm mostly curious why she had an issue with me trying to wagon Mylo (who I skimmed and thought the content looked okay, but didn't really see anything that convinced me he was town).

[Brian Skies]

i mean i guess its gonna be like minuet when people scumread me d1 only for me to not be scum

Your play in Minuet was different though.

Here it seems like you're trying to seem too scummy to be scum.

[Brian Skies]

This pocketing thing:

You may be right, but two mentions and a third that was prompted by another hardly constitute pocketing for me.

I'm still not a huge fan of her complaints about my Mylo wagon, and her Dunn push is just meh to me (but that's mostly because I just haven't cared enough to analyze that in any depth).

Also, for the record: I came to the distinctly opposite conclusion as the bolded. Just don't want my scumread on Mylo to be understated or ignored.

I said it looked okay (as in I can click a post and go like, maybe). I didn't say that I thought it was town.

Also, I skimmed it.

[Brian Skies]

707 is a post that doesn't look good at all, the "I'm too good at scum." thinking isn't one I feel is a town one, at least not a sensible town mindset.


And that's it for their ISO. My conclusion is they seem a bit trolly in their game style, but honestly I'm actually town reading them here. Now to check up on the wagon next!

Like, the conclusion here seems pretty weird to have considering the last thought he ended his PbPA on.

"Doesn't look good at all" -> "actually townreading them here" ???

Okay, first thing to note is Dunn is a double voter, which from experience is generally more town, but I actually have to analyse and can't get away with just assuming that.

Soft fencesit.

Wisdom seems to have started the wagon in 273 (Despite already voting them from 114 ) And... they gave no reason why. They just voted them and said "Everyone looks like scum" without reasonings, which is again a pet peeve of mine. I've also played with Wisdom before, but the confusing part is that from what I've seen they put in more effort as both alignments anyway? So I have zero idea meta wise what they are, but from play there certainly isn't anything to indicate town here.

Another fencesit.

Ank is next with yet another unexplained vote on Spiffeh 301 and also trying the whole "Let's not post reasoning" trick later in their ISO. I also understand Spffeh's point on Ank clearer now, so I'll even add more town points to them. Ank themself has changed their meta since I last played with them, so I'm kinda empty there.

Fencesit.

Dunn votes with *Drum rolls* Actual Reasoning! In 653 Dunn actually explains his evidence for his vote. The only minor issue is I kinda don't really agree with him? Like, Spiffeh's case on Dunn isn't very good imo, but at the same time I don't think that really makes him scummy? But I give him points for actually explaining his vote, and honestly he's getting a bit of a townread from me.

This is a townread but like... :/

Townpoints for actually explaining his vote?

[Brian Skies]

I think the point she made about wanting to "bounce ideas off of Nancy" was patently false.

Probably, yeah.

[Brian Skies]

He probably mistyped it when he put me back into the VC as a wagon. Lol.

[Brian Skies]

Nope. Why do you think he's town?

[Brian Skies]

this vote basically came out of nowhere, and you switched it before spiffeh reacted. what was the purpose of that vote? do you think spiffeh is mafia?

No, I was going to join the Spiffeh wagon to push it along but I didn't really feel good about it and changed my mind.

This posting style is exhausting. Purr I really don't get why you're scumreading me of all people I feel I've been pretty transparently town.

Isn't this a scumtell for you?

oof, brian might be scum.

What about this do you have an issue with?

[Brian Skies]

do you townread spiffeh now?

No, but I'm not scumreading him.

also, my issue with #636 is that it looked like a cheap way to discredit maria and add to the general suspicion of her without actually being substantive or trying to engage with her. it felt like a drive-by discredit.

Yeah. And?

[Brian Skies]

No, because she was openly discrediting my Mylo wagon.

[Brian Skies]

I was waiting for certain things to happen so I can analyse it all later, one of them (and the main one) being Mylo actually posting something I could consider content.

Also, seeing how people react to what I'm doing is also a thing I'm generally interested in.

[Brian Skies]

i don't see how that would make you unable to directly state your issue with someone instead of vaguely discrediting them.

I don't believe I should have to explain everything I'm doing as I'm doing it.

Regarding Maria, I already gave her an indication that I didn't like what she was doing here.

No, I did't spell it out for her, but I also don't think I needed to.

[Brian Skies]

did you like mylo's content? i thought it was relatively bland and safe.

Okay, then we kind of agree.

Spoiler: Relevant Posts

I said it looked okay (as in I can click a post and go like, maybe). I didn't say that I thought it was town.

Also, I skimmed it.

707 is a post that doesn't look good at all, the "I'm too good at scum." thinking isn't one I feel is a town one, at least not a sensible town mindset.


And that's it for their ISO. My conclusion is they seem a bit trolly in their game style, but honestly I'm actually town reading them here. Now to check up on the wagon next!

Like, the conclusion here seems pretty weird to have considering the last thought he ended his PbPA on.

"Doesn't look good at all" -> "actually townreading them here" ???

Okay, first thing to note is Dunn is a double voter, which from experience is generally more town, but I actually have to analyse and can't get away with just assuming that.

Soft fencesit.

Wisdom seems to have started the wagon in 273 (Despite already voting them from 114 ) And... they gave no reason why. They just voted them and said "Everyone looks like scum" without reasonings, which is again a pet peeve of mine. I've also played with Wisdom before, but the confusing part is that from what I've seen they put in more effort as both alignments anyway? So I have zero idea meta wise what they are, but from play there certainly isn't anything to indicate town here.

Another fencesit.

Ank is next with yet another unexplained vote on Spiffeh 301 and also trying the whole "Let's not post reasoning" trick later in their ISO. I also understand Spffeh's point on Ank clearer now, so I'll even add more town points to them. Ank themself has changed their meta since I last played with them, so I'm kinda empty there.

Fencesit.

Dunn votes with *Drum rolls* Actual Reasoning! In 653 Dunn actually explains his evidence for his vote. The only minor issue is I kinda don't really agree with him? Like, Spiffeh's case on Dunn isn't very good imo, but at the same time I don't think that really makes him scummy? But I give him points for actually explaining his vote, and honestly he's getting a bit of a townread from me.

This is a townread but like... :/

Townpoints for actually explaining his vote?

also, do you think your comment to maria yielded anything worthwhile? has your read on her progressed at all since that point?

I think she's scummy, and would feel more confident in it if Mylo were scum.

Beyond that, not really, because I haven't had a chance to interact with her since.

[Brian Skies]

Seems like quite the dilemma.

[Brian Skies]

Why did you vote Wisdom?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Maria

[Brian Skies]

I dont even know what I wanna do anymore.
This game just feels like a big ball of mist.

We could go back to lynching Mylo, but I want Maria to apologize to that wagon and tell it that it's beautiful.

[Brian Skies]

Thank you!

[Brian Skies]

I was mostly confused why you were wagoning ninja if you had legit scumreads

To answer your question, I'm a big picture reader (although I can and do tunnel if I feel really strongly about something).

So if someone is literally just not providing me content, then I will go after them until I get something I can try and read them off of. I have no issue lynching lurkers, and I'd rather mislynch a practically nonexistent slot than lose to someone that is doing literally nothing.

This is different than players like Wisdom or Kokichi who do post and I'm just not sure how to read them.

Yes, I have (had) scumreads, but I didn't feel strongly about any of them, and wanted to go after someone that I thought could be scum and was possibly obfuscating my ability to draw alignments and connections.

[Brian Skies]

I forgot this started whoops.

I'll get to this soon, I have to do some stuff first though

I will force myself to get to this one!

Also, these were all his posts and I was ticked off.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Mylo

[Brian Skies]

Nancy, I appreciate the sentiment, but my name isn't actually Brian anyway.

[Brian Skies]

Then vote him.

[Brian Skies]

So why are you scumreading any of us?

[Brian Skies]

I already explained my Mylo read. Kind of.

[Brian Skies]

It's not like in minuet's trio scum!mastina didnt decide to hardcore lurk so hard she didnt ever read the thread or anything

She was just busy.

But it's true that sometimes scum do lurk.

[Brian Skies]

I'm your only scumread currently on this wagon though.

[Brian Skies]

But you know, you could also flip that around and assume scum have been trying to get the lynch OFF their lurker partner.

No no no. We can't use this.

That would incriminate her.

[Brian Skies]

I could see Brian being scum here too

Can you not scumread me on my birthday?

[Brian Skies]

Didn't we have a Spiffeh wagon? Maybe Spiffeh's scum.

[Brian Skies]

idk I really feel like Brian is putting more effort into this game than he would if he were town

Wtf? You couldn't be more wrong about me.

[Brian Skies]

It could be a duel instead of a face-off.

[Brian Skies]

Dunn, is there anything keeping you from voting Mylo?

[Brian Skies]

It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.

[Brian Skies]

@Brian: Why did u wait so long to vote mylo ever since 858? and what was your read on mylo when you posted that?

It's a little fuzzy, but I'm pretty sure I was trying to see if I could wagon or lynch Maria. I was scumreading Mylo at the time, but only voted her when I felt that she was a viable wagon again.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: projectmatt

[Brian Skies]

Unfortunately you guys are wrong, cause he's scum. But, it's alright. Never too late to join a wagon. Wisdom proved that yesterday.

check who was the first to vote mylo please

VOTE: Myloninja13

?

[Brian Skies]

Yo @Momentum @Brian Skies
kokichi red pm yes no maybe so?

Probably not.

[Brian Skies]

Vc's like 1.6 and 1.8 don't make me think Nos is scum but I think 1.6 to 1.7 is one of the more telling VC's in the set looking at said vote counts I think moment is one of the worser looking people in this. I was townreading them for how they were scumreading me for buddying and that's not really false but I'd like to hear if I'm coocoo or not for suspecting that I imagine'd they would be voting me here but it doesn't seem like they are. If they were I'd still believe the read but now it feels like something they just tried to bite into.

Why do you think Moment should have been voting you here? Or better yet, why do you think him voting Mylo here makes him look bad?

[Brian Skies]

In contrast to scum betraying their knowledge of everyone's alignment, I feel like comments such as these

betray a lack of informedness

.

What?

[Brian Skies]

Alright. I'll go ahead and just say that I disagree with him.

[Brian Skies]

Brian do you think Maria/Kokichi has 1?

I think that Maria has a good chance of being scum. I don't really think it's Kokichi.

I don't think there necessarily has to be 1 in those two, but that's how my reads are. I don't know why you asked me this question since if you've been following my posts this day, you would have already known my answer.

[Brian Skies]

Yeah Cupcake. Don't think you can lurk just because people have forgotten about you.

[Brian Skies]

It's hard to tell, but I think he wants us to kill Matt.

[Brian Skies]

nobody's really going to read it in-depth

I probably would.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: TBG

[Brian Skies]

Kill: TBG

And the facade of an innocent and harmless Sakura is now ruined.

[Brian Skies]

did anyone read any of maria's recent posts and think "wow, yeah, that certainly is a post that came from a town player!"

genuinely interested in the answer to this question

I was slightly amused by her calling me out. I was wondering how long it would take before someone did that.

I've read some of her posts, but not all of them. And I'm still waiting for her response to

Vc's like 1.6 and 1.8 don't make me think Nos is scum but I think 1.6 to 1.7 is one of the more telling VC's in the set looking at said vote counts I think moment is one of the worser looking people in this. I was townreading them for how they were scumreading me for buddying and that's not really false but I'd like to hear if I'm coocoo or not for suspecting that I imagine'd they would be voting me here but it doesn't seem like they are. If they were I'd still believe the read but now it feels like something they just tried to bite into.

Why do you think Moment should have been voting you here? Or better yet, why do you think him voting Mylo here makes him look bad?

[Brian Skies]

When have i ever been innocent and harmless, did you read Minuet's Trio?

I'm sorry. That game was mostly a blur for me.

[Brian Skies]

just read all of her recent posts in sequence and think about what shes trying to achieve with each response and also read what shes actually saying and think about the mindset

I'm trying, but my eyes keep glazing over whenever I try to read through her posts (although this probably isn't something I'm experiencing that's exclusive to her).

It is interesting that her flurry of posting comes right as TBG becomes a viable counterwagon to Matt, whereas she was in hardcore lurk-mode while Matt was the sole leading wagon.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: TBG

So we're just letting this happen? We're just. Ok

[Brian Skies]

ive been neglecting you this game, isaac

sorry

are we town?

Idk. Are you?

Kind of hard to tell when you're so committed to convincing us otherwise.

[Brian Skies]

I mostly am confused with moments actions vs words. Like his words seem like he'd vote me but his actions vote mylo. Prob still town but eh

He was scumreading Mylo and Mylo had a bigger wagon, so...?

[Brian Skies]

Just wait until I start overcomplicating the simple things.

[Brian Skies]

Also, I'd consider this wagon a success even if we only end up managing to break TBG's 'post restriction'.

[Brian Skies]

because then it forces me to choose between stopping the gimmick I was having a lot of fun with or fucking up the game

Yeah, how dare we all forced such a dramatic and life-altering decision on you.

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Matt

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Matt

Do you not believe what he's putting out? Cause I'd be willing to back there if so

VOTE: Matt

You say as you vote him...

I've not found any of Matt's posts particularly compelling.

part of the reason i think kokichi might be scum is because of his indignation at me being lynched. the confidence in which he knows im going to flip town seems unrealistic, and it looks like he's trying to get towncred/using my townflip to justify his tunnel on wisdom. i also feel like his iso doesn't have much substance to it. i like most of his reads, but it feels like he gets them without trying to scumhunt/dialogue with people, and it makes me think the reads might be fake.

that said, i can still be convinced kokichi is town. he's not my top choice right now.

This in particular doesn't seem that great since he's hedging and doing the same thing we slammed Mylo for. I'm also curious about his Muffin and Moment scumreads, particularly because I think Moment is really town this game.

did you like mylo's content? i thought it was relatively bland and safe.

i'm not super opposed to this wagon but i don't think it's really going to garner that much information, regardless of the flip. i'll hammer on it before the deadline if we need.

This is didn't really like since I feel like he could've figured that out for himself if he just continued to read my posts, and this was a conclusion Moment and I had already come to (Moment was the one who actually pushed me to reevaluate my Mylo read, so I am giving him a decent amount of credit here). And Matt never did end up voting Mylo. While I can see town just being really unsure, it gives me the impression he could have been scum hoping for the Mylo wagon to stall out near day's end and people wagoning something else.

Anyhow, the main pause I have is that most of his posting that I have an issue with comes in long catch-up style posting. But I still didn't really like this:

oof, brian might be scum.

i'm not interested in arguing semantics though, since you might be town.

i take it all back. brian's probably town.

Which seems like he was trying to give off the impression of a generic read, and it didn't actually feel that way for me.

[Brian Skies]

Which seems like he was trying to give off the impression of a generic read, and it didn't actually feel that way for me.

Generic should be genuine.

[Brian Skies]

If this greens where do you go if Maria isn't an option? What do you think about TBG's slot and everything surrounding it

Why would Maria not be an option? I don't really care about answering a question about a hypothetical flip.

I think Muffin's crusade against TBG is fine. I didn't really like TBG's initial posting about complaining about other people complaining about his fake post restriction. His 2151 seemed fine to me. Was there anything specific about the TBG wagon you wanted me to address?

[Brian Skies]

i elaborated on what makes me scumread moment in my response to purr. let me quote it for you. (also i feel like this post got missed and i want to quote it again.)

see my first response about reading people based on tone.

when i asked "do people think moment is town?", that was my way of asking "is anyone else pinged by these posts? am i alone?". why is that a bad thing?

I read it, I just didn't care about it.

I thought for sure you made a post casing Moment today, but maybe I'm wrong and attributed a post made by someone else to you? Anyhow, what I just quoted (which is the only relevant point about Moment from the post you just quoted for me), doesn't actually address why you thought Moment was scummy, so...?

i'd be happy to walk you through my thought process on why i scumread you and then changed my mind, if that's something you want.

To be honest, I don't think it would change my mind (at least not on that).

[Brian Skies]

Cause she towntold?

Where did this happen?

Does it indicate anything to you about the people pushing it or the matt wagon?

Why is Muffin fine? What do you townread him for exactly? Last game he stomped and pretty sure he had the scum team
But this game He's being really weird and I'm pretty sure all of his Srs are town

Not really.

I said his push on TBG seems fine. It's a

seekrit

. So what? This is a different game and players are intentionally obfuscating their own alignments for some reason.
How would you know if all his Srs are town?

[Brian Skies]

anyway for clarity, i scumread moment largely for tone issues (i articulated it in the post above.)

I will never subscribe to a read based on 'tone'.

1) I don't think a lot of players are actually very good at doing this, and most of the time it's mostly because they're just bad at explaining reads.
2) I don't read players on tone anyway.
3) Scum can easily try to substantiate a 'scumread' based on just 'tone' and I've seen them do this.

[Brian Skies]

as for my actual top choice, i'd probably want to vote muffin or

moment

. i'll elaborate on those when it's not 4 am.

You would think that the

elaboration

would be more than just 'tone.' But that's just me.

[Brian Skies]

granted 3-4 of the people on your wagon haven't even said anything but "site meta" is hardly why you're being lynched


i'm probably willing to switch

Why would you switch? What about anything Matt's said makes you think he's town here?

Her and Dunn is tvt and I don't think either of them are fake sorting the other

A lot of her posting and stances that's been pointed out as "scummy" probably indicates the opposite to that effect

I'm pretty sure scum Maria doesn't just fold when pushed
She had minimal pressure on her and Ate'd or something
I was scumreading her hard too

So which of these was a 'towntell'?

[Brian Skies]

Moment's not scum and he's not getting lynched today.

[Brian Skies]

do you have reads?

Oh, I guess I wasn't really clear in my wording; I didn't mean that I had past-tense "gotten" a chance to look through things, I meant that my chance started right then (and is now completed).

No strong reads as of yet, but I've got some leans going either way. Kokichi, you (matt), Dunnstral, Nancy and

perhaps

Sakura (pending taking a look back at the last game for comparison on something) all seem town enough to me for now. I agree with others on Ankamius' posting just in general not being the best so far, but that's not really a strong scumread at all.



I haven't liked some of what Spiffeh has been saying; specifically, it was these two lines that really stuck out to me:

Nancy, you admit yourself that your early game is inconsistent but when you're wagoned you say that they shouldn't be scum reading you here because of how you acted in the beginning of Necromancer.

Some would argue that there won’t be any meaningful contribution before votes actually count.

The first line from 157 is logically correct, but it's the kind of logically correct thing that someone could point out regardless of alignment, and I feel like a scum Spiffeh would be more apt to take that opportunity to point it out than a town Spiffeh. When it comes to Nancy Drew, that kind of logical inconsistency really doesn't seem particularly alignment relevant - at least, that's how it seems to me - and so pointing it out would be more of an attempt to look like you're doing something than actually doing something.

The second quote really just stuck out to me for the wording. He wasn't making that argument, he was just saying that "some would argue" that. It's weasel wording which, in all honesty, is probably not scum indicative, especially for such a tangentially alignment-related issue as the starting of the day. Even still, it stuck out to me upon reading through and I felt it worth mentioning.

it reads to me like moment is scared to commit to any reads or even to interrogate another player. it feels like his express purpose is keeping his options open while still setting up to vote people later in the game. this is different from his first post in minuet, in which he takes hard stances and asserts himself.

And despite all those words spent on Spiffeh, I think the best place for my vote is actually on Nosferatu. His series of posts starting at 292 strikes me as forced, and I feel more confident in that actually being scum indicative than any of the other thoughts I've mentioned so far.

I'll also be keeping my eye on Mylo and MariaR.

VOTE: Nosferatu

I don't think anything he's posted here is insecure or noncommittal (that would actually more aptly describe your play, not his). And his immediately following post segues nicely into where he does actually end up moving his vote. Nos' posts up to that point did feel incredibly forced at the time, and it was a read I agreed with him on.

[Brian Skies]

i don't think matt is trying to pander to us so he can live

i think he believes some of the things he says that i think are crazy
i believe his actions re:nancy slot more than I do muffins
i also can see him scumreading moment cause i totally misread them last game

Really? Because his posts read as him whining that people are scumreading him. Not to mention he even at one point said he should be read as obvtown, and I don't think there's anything in his iso that should indicate this.

What crazy things do you think he seriously believes and why?

Why do you believe his actions regarding Nancy more than Muffins? Serious question since I may have missed these (or just ignored them), and I don't know why you don't think Muffin could have these interactions regarding Muffin.

I didn't understand why anyone scumread Moment last game and still don't.

[Brian Skies]

we're clearly not reading his tone the same way at all. i don't think #307 was committal. it left open the possibility that he could switch to spiffeh/mylo/maria at any time. he's also not trying to directly engage nosferatu, moreso just saying "this was scummy and here's why". that contrasts his post in minuet, in which he directly called out kaede in a harsh way.

Really? Because all his posts and actions speak otherwise.

[Brian Skies]

Really? Because his posts read as him whining that people are scumreading him. Not to mention he even at one point said he should be read as obvtown, and I don't think there's anything in his iso that should indicate this.

the vast majority of my posts are articulating my thought process, my reads, or questioning other people in the game. ive rightfully pointed out a couple of times that people are voting me because they're lazy and it's the easiest move for them, and the best way you can think to summarize my play is that im whining?

do better.

You are whining.

[Brian Skies]

being straight up, this type of situation tends to give me whiplash because i get legitimately kind of pissed off when people vote me as town. it seems so obvious from my perspective that im not scum and that this is a lazy wagon, but it means that i need to fight the misled town into not voting me, which makes me feel like i can't lay back and just develop my own reads, which is essential for my play.

im trying to do a catch-up post with reads and thoughts but every time i do i end up getting overwhelmed by the amount of effort required and say "fuck it, ill do it tomorrow."

like, purr just posted a case on me that i truthfully think is absolute garbage. it doesn't make sense. it's full of false assumptions. I could use my energy to analyze it line by line and counter every point, but what does that accomplish? nobody's really going to read it in-depth and I feel like I'm just wasting time until I inevitably get voted.

It's legitimately frustrating.

honestly i still think im just killing time until i get mislynched because y'all are too afraid to lynch within people that you already know and i also dont think a lot of you are genuinely interested in reading me

i am salty, though

[Brian Skies]

we're clearly not reading his tone the same way at all. i don't think #307 was committal. it left open the possibility that he could switch to spiffeh/mylo/maria at any time. he's also not trying to directly engage nosferatu, moreso just saying "this was scummy and here's why". that contrasts his post in minuet, in which he directly called out kaede in a harsh way.

Really? Because all his posts and actions speak otherwise.

To elaborate on this, and all of you are free to iso Moment if you're really that interested, but Moment does actually engage and pressure his scumreads, as well as

actually

voting them. Sure, he doesn't really engage Nos or Mylo that much, but he

still

asks people their opinions on them and engages other people on their opinions of said slots.

[Brian Skies]

I don't actually really care about establishing that as a valid point against you. Just that you've been whining today and that your Moment push is bad and/or misguided.

[Brian Skies]

i think a cursory glance of his iso shows that he has a tendency this game to jump on already established bandwagons and to remain somewhat wishy-washy about his own reads.

im not saying he's never engaged or pressured people, but my point is that there's an immediate difference in his tone and in his approach to this game simply by comparing his first post here with his first post in minuet.

What reads has he been wishy washy on? How do these reads of his indicate scum for you?

Why are you treating his first post between two games as some sort of smoking gun?

[Brian Skies]

ISNT THAT HOW SCUMHUNTING WORKS?

No, you just make soft sideline comments about how someone is scummy but never vote them and take credit when they flip red anyway.

[Brian Skies]

ISAAC

WHO WOULD YOU THINK IS SCUM IF MATT WAS TOWN?

I don't like answering questions about hypothetical flips.

I do think Maria could be scum. Not really exclusive to Matt being scum, although I would find it slightly unlikely they're scum together just based on Matt's immediate reaction to me saying I'd be more confident in Maria being scum if Mylo flipped scum.

I don't have any other strong scumreads or people that I really want lynched. Rather there's a small handful people that I don't particularly care if they get lynched or not.

[Brian Skies]

and having reflected on my own reading for townreading MariaR I think I was overthinking things.

[Brian Skies]

How confident is your evil conscience in TBG flipping scum?

[Brian Skies]

VOTE: Maria

[Brian Skies]

LOL

IM ALL FOR MUFFIN LYNCHES ALL GAME ERR GAME

BUT THE FACT IM NOT SHOULD BE TELLING IN ITSELF

Or the fact that you were trying to lynch him yesterday, claimed you were going to 'cop him', and now suddenly you don't want to lynch him anymore.

Mindblowing.

I know.

[Brian Skies]

AINT IT?

LIFE HOLDS SO MANY MYSTERIES

Like Eddie Caine?

[Brian Skies]

I'm not claiming ever this day so if town want to go ahead and lynch me you guys deserve to lose.

Please don't lynch muffins today, I have a cop ability so I can easily sort him.

Vote: Nancy

VOTE: NANCY

bus nancy you scumfuck cupcake

pedit: ty

Muffins would never lie about a guilty result, Sakura.

uh

im still trying to figure out what the PM FG sent me last night means exactly

he doesn't have a result, thats obvious

Just because I don't have a guilty result today doesn't mean I don't have one...

The timing of my/TBG pushes is suspicious af. I also really disliked Matt’s push on Moment. I can’t imagine anyone pushing a wagon on one player while presumably having a guilty on another.

Because the guilty is fake.

Muffins would never fake a guilty. It goes against the very fiber of his being.

And why you are willfully ignoring the mod-confirmed guilty result muffins has on that slot?

I'm just gonna make some slight modifications to this. It's amazing how the narrative can be so easily changed depending on what is or isn't included.

[Brian Skies]

Wisdom, if you find a way to give me a gun, I promise I will use it.

[Brian Skies]

And this changes it how exactly?

[Brian Skies]

Really? I thought that avatar was pretty strong.

[Brian Skies]

Brain Muffin seems too easy a scumteam so Ank + 1 of them seems good to me.

Lol.

Alright, I'll bite. Why Ank?

[Brian Skies]

"brian"

Never heard of him.

Ank's posts about the whole "I'm scum so I'm doing ___" just feel like a weak excuse at this point to me I can see why a few others joke about it but for ank it just feels super OOC and I remember Ank being alot more into games. I don't know why she was disengaged the best thing that comes to mind is losing a partner. I just don't see how she's towny and can see it flipping scum. I could be biased with her scumread on me but it feels super convenient.
What's your current pool at? I've seen you make quite a few votes but seeing where your at would be nice.

Maybe. I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to Ank, but I didn't think anything she did this game was scummy. And 1268 felt pretty town to me.

My lynchpool is currently <Maria, Matt>, and I would compromise on a few other names, one of them being TBG.

As far as convenience goes, I do find it slightly amusing that you're jumping on Ank now that she's already requested replacement.

[Brian Skies]

As far as convenience goes, I do find it slightly amusing that you're jumping on Ank now that she's already requested replacement.

I talked about Ank before no? >_>

I have no idea.

[Brian Skies]

WALK ME THRU MARIASCUM BS

I DONT KNOW ANY BRIANS ONLY ISSAC

She's scum because she had zero reason to oppose my lurker wagon in the manner that she did and the posts that Moment was townreading for 'betraying a lack of information' or whatever it was actually seems like she was trying to fearmonger the players on the Mylo wagon so she can derail it.

[Brian Skies]

hmmmmm

i didnt read d1

but youre saying that you pushed for mylo lynch and she tried to keep him alive ya?

I think she was intentionally trying to keep a wagon

off

of Mylo.

[Brian Skies]

I mean I can openly admit I did this

Not like its an arguable point anyway.

Anyhow, opposing it near day's end would have been somewhat understandable for me. But you were doing it near midday when he hadn't provided any content, and your ONLY reasoning for doing so was because 'lol, no information.' Well, duh, of course there isn't any information. That's why were voting him up. And by the time his lynch wagon came around again at Day's End, we did have reason to suspect him and you were still in your 'Mylo is a townflip, this is a bad wagon' mode.

[Brian Skies]

I mean I can openly admit I did this

Not like its an arguable point anyway.

Anyhow, opposing it near day's end would have been somewhat understandable for me. But you were doing it near midday when he hadn't provided any content, and your ONLY reasoning for doing so was because 'lol, no information.' Well, duh, of course there isn't any information. That's why were voting him up. And by the time his lynch wagon came around again at Day's End, we did have reason to suspect him and you were still in your 'Mylo is a townflip, this is a bad wagon' mode.

I strongly disagree with you. Mylo was getting voted because they were lurking and that's a dumb reason imo lurking shouldn't be a reason to lynch someone it gives no info. I would rather vote someone that gives info. I don't know what the so called reason to suspect them at day end you're talking about is.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If you still don't understand why he got lynched, then I don't know what to tell you.

Anyhow, Mylo flipped scum PR, and I think scum has every reason to want to keep that alive. And that's more than enough for me to want to condemn you.

[Brian Skies]

Mylo was getting voted because they were lurking and that's a dumb reason imo lurking shouldn't be a reason to lynch someone it gives no info. I would rather vote someone that gives info.

Also, philosophically, 'lynching for info' is incredibly dumb and will more often lead town into mislynches than not.

And if you don't understand why people wanted to get information out of Mylo, then it's probably because you were never interested in sorting him to begin with.

[Brian Skies]

eh
Id prolly bus mylo regardless of pr

Are you scum?

[Brian Skies]

It's not about that. It's about you wanting to keep that wagon from ever doing anything, especially when you should have had no business ever doing so.

Nancy also opposed it and called it a lurker wagon, but she still understood the motivation behind it. You disregarded it and fought it at every turn.

[Brian Skies]

From my eyes Mylo was
1) Lurker lynch
2) Easy lynch
3) Barely any reasoning

Also, none of these have ever made someone town, which makes your opposition to having any pressure there even more baffling.

[Brian Skies]

With those 3 factors, I felt that flips town 100% of the time

because we were also wagoning other people at the time and that lead me to believe that we wagoned scum at one point and people were trying to drive onto the Mylo wagon.

[Brian Skies]

No.

[Brian Skies]

Anyhow, I'm off for the night.

Try not to lynch Sakura, Moment, Purr, Kats, or Muffin while I'm gone.

I don't particularly care about anyone else.

[Brian Skies]

So you agree with them?

Obviously not since I ran him up and then lynched him.

[Brian Skies]

It's a losing battle for you since we already know how it ended.

[Brian Skies]

Try not to lynch Sakura, Moment, Purr, Kats, or Muffin while I'm gone.

kats and muffin have no place in this list

Nah man. They're fine.

And whatever this wagon on Muffin is, well, he probably deserves it but I'm telling you not to do it.

[Brian Skies]

Btw, on the subject of "busing a mafia pr" please remember that's it's very likely every scum member has a PR, whether that was their weakest PR or not tho, there's no way to know right now.

Yeah, especially with being guaranteed a main character

What do you mean

He's saying scum probably have a stronger PR.

[Brian Skies]

First page says 1 main is guaranteed scum

No it doesn't.

[Brian Skies]

mylo lynch looked very questionable - you're lynching a player who lurks as either alignment, has made no relevant posts, and you're doing this lynch with widespread support? Obviously, we can look back with hindsight, but at the time, what does that look like? It looks like a free mislynch.

he says while calling katsuki scum for lurking

VOTE: tehbrawlguy

[Brian Skies]

Well there's a story to be said about the boy who cries

scum

wolf

Silly Sakura, there are no wolves in this game. Now atone by amending your vote onto TBG.

[Brian Skies]

are both of you unable to see the difference between:

making 7 total posts while mostly being gone
vs
making 80+ posts while mostly spamming the thread with bullshit

really?

I see I misremembered your reasoning for voting Katsuki.

However, Katsuki is a special cupcake and normal rules don't apply to him.

[Brian Skies]

I'm not talking about yesterday, I'm talking about the fact that we have a player basically refusing to post game relevant content today, yet nobody's really doing much about it. Regardless of D1, Katsuki would be a pretty soft target to push for their behavior today, and that's just not happening.

He is posting game relevant content. It's just that people don't trust him. Lmao.

[Brian Skies]

For a guy who spent the entire game posting pictures, you sure do lack any sort of comprehensive ability for abstract posting.

[Brian Skies]

How rich is it that one of the people who whined at me for it is defending the guy who spams the thread in all caps and literally threatens to throw the game? "Abstract posting", like it's some kind of progressive art form.

Yeah, but the difference is that this is just how he plays.

[Brian Skies]

the guy who spams the thread in all caps and literally threatens to throw the game?

How are either of these scum indicative?

[Brian Skies]

WAIT. ARE BRIAN AND ZMUFFIN ISAAC AND MIRIA FROM BACCANO?? THEY MUST BE IN CAHOOTS!!

You can always grab a Baccano! avatar and join us.

[Brian Skies]

I don't know if my feelings should be hurt or not. </3

[Brian Skies]

but complaining repeatedly about me attempting to provide relevant content, albeit with an "images only" restriction.

I think I've only mentioned this about you

once

, and why is getting you to break a fake post restriction such a bad thing?

You're acting like we all kicked your puppy or something.

[Brian Skies]

Well, for one, because I was having fun with the game then, and I'm having a lot less with it now. I like having fun.

Secondly, because it genuinely feels unfair that the thread is letting Katsuki get away with his behavior. I've been playing this game for nearly a decade, and I've literally never seen behavior this bad go this uncriticised.

I don't know what to tell you.

No one really cares about whether you were having fun with your fake post restriction or not.

And Katsuki is Katsuki.

[Brian Skies]

honestly uve been playing with my emotions ur like sam fisher in splinter cell 4 the prison one thats why you kinda shaky
for jumping ship to that maria wagon u and moment should be thrown into a pit of baby jaguars tbh

I've only played one Splinter Cell game and I don't think that one was it.

i guess that question was mainly directed at sakura moment dunn wisdom and maria

So why did Moment get included and not me?

Doesn't that seem a little unfair to you?

[Brian Skies]

I'm pretty sure your VoteCount is wrong.

[Brian Skies]

OH MY GOD I FORGOT NANCY AAFSIAGAJGFKMHDGKHJK :-;

Lol. I noticed this too but I wasn't sure if you excluded her intentionally or not.

you can answer
but i think ur answer will be "no"

Why do you want to lynch Ank?

[Brian Skies]

Idk. I didn't even look at that wagon.

[Brian Skies]

I will also actively help scum win if you guys lynch muffins today.

I was going to do that. ):

[Brian Skies]

I will also actively help scum win if you guys lynch muffins today.

I was going to do that. ):

k so make it a 6-man scumteam!

Wow, how many mislynches would that leave town with going into tomorrow?

[Brian Skies]

It doesnt say anything about cops in the OP

Think about it, with the gunsmith being the intended investigative a cop is against the spirit of the setup

What are you even talking about? It's clearly included in the Sample Role PM's.

[Brian Skies]

ill take that as a joke @brian

I don't think that exact role necessarily exists in this setup (and I even went through past games to see if FG includes them in his setup). There is at least one example of where a Non-Vanilla Sample Role does, but there isn't anything that disproves the existence of a Cop-like role, and I don't see how FG can't just include that exact role either (although this would be pretty unlikely).

Although, there also isn't necessarily a guarantee that a gunsmith would be town-aligned, and if there does exist an actual cop, then I can sort of see the possibility of the scumteam having a gunsmith (it would be really weird, but FG does like to do weird things).

Anyhow, none of this is really important except that I do think Kats is probably some sort of investigative role with an actual innocent result on Muffins.

[Brian Skies]

yeah we totally have both a cop and a gunsmith and katsuki isnt clearly bsing

Maybe the scumteam is just stacked?

[Brian Skies]

No, brian.

Why is Muffin scum?

[Brian Skies]

CUPCAKE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A HUGE FAN OF GIVING ME TOWN READS AFTER ALL

I actually have no idea if this is sarcasm or not.

[Brian Skies]

No, brian.

Why is Muffin scum?

Are you going to answer this or what?

[Brian Skies]

Just sheep me instead.

[Brian Skies]

I will definitely convince Purr to stay.

[Brian Skies]

And then if I change my mind, I will definitely make sure Purr will follow me. So it's better to cut out the middle man and sheep me instead.

[Brian Skies]

and nothing else is viable without my vote

Sure there is. You just have an extra vote. It's not like your existence actually prevents anything else from happening.

if we're not getting Katsuki we're getting you

Also, no, never.

[Brian Skies]

So Wisdom, if Muffin flips town, how do you plan on backpedaling tomorrow?

[Brian Skies]

Why do you want to lynch Katsuki?

[Brian Skies]

IF HE FLIPS RED ILL PAYPAL YOU TEN MILLION

Ten million what?

[Brian Skies]

and nothing else is viable without my vote

Sure there is. You just have an extra vote. It's not like your existence actually prevents anything else from happening.

if we're not getting Katsuki we're getting you

Also, no, never.

I'm telling you, you're not going to be able to make anything else happen. Muffin is dead unless we can swing a wagon on Katsuki

Why do you want to lynch Katsuki?

[Brian Skies]

He could also just be scum...

[Brian Skies]

Also you attacking his personal character doesn't really help matters since he can just as easily be trying to grudge-lynch you.

[Brian Skies]

If you were gonna cop anyone it'd be the person who almost made you rage.

That's an interesting thought.

What makes you think this since Kats demonstrated an actual scumread on Muffin and just expressed general dislike for Dunn?