OPEN 732 : PICK YOUR POWER X/Y (GAME OVER)

[Enigma]

Quack

[Enigma]

Quack isn’t he saying skitter Vulcan and him claim if no town doc CC?

[OkaPoka]

yes

its a sacrifice, we can still discuss, but unless we lynch ap rn we are going to do this dance anyways. just want to cut the fluff

[Sando]

Quack isn’t he saying skitter Vulcan and him claim if no town doc CC?

I believe so yeah, in which case, yeah decent conversation to have. I think it's fine, assuming AP is RBscum, then his partner is most likely Vigscum, so basically useless since they can only submit one action per night which is already a kill.

[skitter30]

i don't cc; i'll claim if people think i ought to

*Sigh*

I'm the bloody Doctor! I was on Sky last night because I also thought scum could fall for ruru's gambit and not target her, so I went for 2nd on draft.

i don't really believe this

earlier you claimed that you thought ruru was gambitting and that you could understand why town would do that so idk why you wouldn't have just protected her. and you don't really seem to have indicated that you were townreading sky like anywhere; like even from this i can't really tell if you're townreading or scumreading sky.

First off; PGO/1-shot Vig is rarely ever picked anyway, much less so by the #1 draft.

ruru obviously was claiming a strong TPR that needed to try and evade the NK.

If a Townie had the role they would not have CC'd if they knew what they were doing (and/ot if they knew ruru well enough). Scum would have also known she was lying if they did have the role, so I'm slightly leaning they do, but not ruling out someone in the scum team knows ruru well enough and called her bluff.

like you clearly believed that she was gambitting being pgo to try to protect herself as another strong pr so idk why you wouldn't have protected her

like you're basically saying you saw through the gambit but didn't do anything about it when it was in your power to do so because you think scum also saw through the gambit - if scum saw through the gambit too like you thought they did it points to scum having pgo/vig but you haven't really tried to like ... find the pgo/vig once we've determined the group of slots that it must be in


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pretty sure enigma is town

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Can someone interpret this for me? Is he saying Sky is town or scum?

i think he's saying he thinks scum is in the lower numbers so he wants to go down the draft list in order to pressure those people.

like i don't think that's a read on any of those people based on play, but rather that he thinks that we ought to pressure people based on draft pick

and given this it's kinda weird that he decided to protect sky tbh

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AP being scum would mean AP is most likely RB and scum could have safely killed ruru through PGO without caring about the fakeclaim aspect of that. That means Vig doesn't necessarily have to be scum. Given that Vig hasn't claimed and no-one seems to disagree with my Town-Vig = AP-scum theory, I think vig is most likely scum, and in Aus/Skitter/Vulcan.

(quoted form the wiki page on this setup)

Here are the order of operations for role resolution:
Commuting (isn't affected by anything)
PGO Activation
Roleblocking
Redirecting
Protecting
Killing
Investigating

i think this means that pgo comes before anything else and that a rb/jk would have gotten pgo'd if they targeted them. ie rb'ing a pgo wouldn't have turned off the pgo but would have just killed the rb if they targeted an active pgo, so if they thought she was a pgo i don't think this was a viable option for them if they had a rb

[Sando]

i think this means that pgo comes before anything else and that a rb/jk would have gotten pgo'd if they targeted them. ie rb'ing a pgo wouldn't have turned off the pgo but would have just killed the rb if they targeted an active pgo, so if they thought she was a pgo i don't think this was a viable option for them if they had a rb

Oh interesting, I hadn't thought of that.

@Duckling, are you able to confirm for us that if an RB targets a PGO the RB dies? Also what happens if the doc protects someone who targets the PGO?

[the worst]

@Duckling, are you able to confirm for us that if an RB targets a PGO the RB dies?

The roleblocker's action would fail, and they would die. (activating PGO takes precedence over roleblocking; the resolution guide included in the wiki page is accurate)

Also what happens if the doc protects someone who targets the PGO?

The doctor's target would survive.




(also pls direct thingies at me via pm or bold them so I'm more likely to not lolscroll past)

[Sando]

Thanks Duckling.

Despite the doc idea, I think that's unlikely for scum to do, or more importantly, unlikely for them to have picked that way to enable it.

[Ausuka]

Hi sorry for missing yesterday I was kinda busy. I'll catch up now.

[Ausuka]

sorry to hear that skitter

scum are likely to own vig/PGO slot anyway so whether you would select it as town doesn't really matter here, it's about if you'd select it as scum.

Oka feels towny independent of the draft. Vulcan read for me is just based on the draft. Invis was a goon. Did he go for RB? If yes: it makes sense he's top scum in the draft. If not: why would Vulcan above him take 1shot vig over RB? It only makes sense if Okapoka is the scum RB, but then it should be better to lynch Oka instead. Oka is also notscumvig via draft in that as top scum there doesn't seem to be much reason to take 1s vig? The vig has to choose between killing ML bait or getting PoEd so it's not very strong. I don't think it makes sense to choose PGO.

You went through the invis votes and singled out Cardi and ofrhz iirc?

tyty

i went through all the votes on the wagon, not just cardi and ofrhz in that post

i'm not entirely following ur logic i think, especially since we don't actually know what vizzy went for; i think ur starting from the assumption that he went for rb and failed, which idk if is actually a safe assumption - he could have gone for like jk or something; at this stage it's kinda hard for us to tell; like i think jk is also a fairly reasonable pick for scum to try for

i think at this point it's reasonable to assume that the pgo/vig is scum given that nobody's claimed it, so scum has: a) vizzy who failed to get his pick, and b) scum!vig/pgo in that group of 5 people

if vizzy was top-pick in the draft, he prob goes for rb or jk imo.

another thing to think about is that if he was contiguous in the draft with a partner (ie two scum in a row in the draft), the top scum might not have tried for the power scum pr role (as top scum would do in a situation where they are not contiguous) - they have a second pick just after. like here they basically have two tries to get those good roles in a row, so *between the two of them* they have two tries basically at the same time so either/or of the two could have tried to get it, not just top scum

like ur clearing vulcan based on: if vizzy didn't pick rb it doesn't make sense that vulcan went for pgo/vig in that specific scenario when we don't know what vizzy picked; like if scum is {vizzy/vulcan} it's possible that vulcan went for pgo/vig and vizzy went for jk or something

i'm having trouble explaining this well; lmk if i didn't get that across well and i'll explain again

also this pgo/vig thing means that we have two scum who went for the high-number strategy, which is interesting

(yeah i think it's reasonable to assume pgo/vig is scum given that nobody claimed it)

Yeahhhh I didn't think of the contiguous scum thing thanks for pointing it out to me.

UNVOTE:

Need to think about this more then.

[Ausuka]

I think I'm here right now (town to scum):

skitter, bujaber, ceejay, ruru, okapoka
sando, AP
skygazer, vulcan, enigma
ausuka, cardi, invis

can you explain more of these reads ofrhz? specifically I'd want to hear the reasoning for your reads on me and cjv.

One more for Ausuka, why were you, after ruru flip, interested in ofrhz (+you/cjv) given she is the last one on the draft?

Nothing to do with the draft! I just thought she was scum.

Me and cjv were the reads I found most questionable.

I would love to see ofrhz answer this actually

answer the bolded?

- voting vulcan for doing not actively contributing when not really scrutinizing invis when he did basically the same thing
- some of your reads don't feel real, especially the push on skitter

You went through the invis votes and singled out Cardi and ofrhz iirc?

like this part. i know you don't have a problem with wagon analysis because you were suggesting we lynch on the enigma wagon before enigma even flipped, which i didn't like either

yesterday, i liked cjv's early pressure on enigma. i still think he's town for initially gutscumreading invis and then the L-1 vote on his wagon

A lot of these things seem to have happened after you made that readslist so I'm not sure how they justify those reads, especially the skitter part which was entirely d2 (the other point on me is an invis associative which doesn't justify a read before invis flip; not getting into how accurate it is, because I didn't vote Vulcan because I felt he hadn't been contributing enough? I just thought he was playing in a scummy way)

The early pressure on Enigma was before you made the readslist tbf but I'm not sure how it justifies putting him that high up?

Not sure how this post is "obvtown" like people seem to be saying.

[Ausuka]

ap still might be scum because thats the rb slot

but

there is one other scum in here that we have to find

VOTE: skitter30

^ basically my thoughts. AP could be scum RB but I very much doubt he's scumvig which means we should go for Vulcan or skitter today imo. The quick wagon means he's more likely to be town and people on it are more likely to be scum I think. I'm not a fan of skitter's vote when she was defending AP earlier.

[Ausuka]

For reference/discussion, I'd say the best power for scum is RB/Doc, RB is super powerful here and it denies doc to town simultaneously.

Cop is super important for them to deny to town, can see them taking that.

Role-cop is also very powerful for the scummers.

I think scummers also have the Vig slot since it hasn't been CC'd yet, but I think town-Vig says 100% that one of Sky/AP is scum, almost certainly AP.

If there's a town vig they basically threw by not claiming when asked to tbh. I'm fine with ruling out that possibility.

[Ausuka]

I'd like to hear claims- I think we're close enough to winning this that it's worth doing.

[OkaPoka]

ccs first

[Ausuka]

That just requires Vulcan checking in right? That shouldn't take long.

[OkaPoka]

cardi b, vulcan, and music i believe need to check in

[Skygazer]

Agreed that we should go for the mass claim, we should figure out how to do so logistically.

I think we're pretty close to solving this.

[Sando]

Agreed that we should go for the mass claim, we should figure out how to do so logistically.

Happy with mass-claim, haven't thought through claim process very much at all.

Also, we mass-claim without results, claim results post-claims yeah?

[OkaPoka]

@music, hey when you check in today from your v/la and before your catchup, if you do see this post first, would you mind claiming doctor/roleblocker if you are indeed that role? thanks

[Skygazer]

hey look no progress

[Enigma]

Yeh suppose we are just waiting on comments on AP lynch (and any CCs) from Cardi and vulcan, who are both needing prods now. And Music should be back from V/LA soon ...

[Cardi B]

Not doctor

AP bein RB would prolly have targeted skygazer?

More catchin up at some point

[Enigma]

Not doctor

AP bein RB would prolly have targeted skygazer?

More catchin up at some point

But Sky's action was a success so not sure if this is the case.

[Cardi B]

Also feel like AP don't pick doc over RB as scum

Not doctor

AP bein RB would prolly have targeted skygazer?

More catchin up at some point

But Sky's action was a success so not sure if this is the case.

Thas what I'm sayin