Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[Micc]

Votecount 2.05

Eragon (1) -

IcemanCh

OkaPoka (1) -

WhyMafia

Quick (1) -

Eragon

nancy (1) -

OkaPoka

Not Voting (3) -

Quick, Formerfish, nancy

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2018-07-31 17:20:00).

[nancy]

Heh, there's seven days in the phase, guys, calm down.

Iceman's read flip on me looks pretty bad. He also keeps doing stuff that doesn't really fit the way he's described his process, like the hammer on trinity when eragon and flicker were trying to catch up and I'd told him not to hammer. I kind of thought it might be twtbaw but eh, the more I see from him the less he makes sense to me. His stuff about everyone looking like scum to him doesn't line up with his reads at all. He has most if t game as town, and he was scum reading Oka yesterday but has flipped that read too.

@oka stop being silly. I don't make 350 posts day 1 then suddenly feel shy about posting day 2 as mafia. I didn't see you unvote. Your question is also... What? I pushed on Flicker for the very obvious reason that I stated, I thought she was mafia. I only started thinking that because I was losing my mind, sure, but why else would I push her. I'm not sure if you realize how tilted I was by your push on trinity and the wagon on her in general. Your push was honestly one of the worst things I've seen in a newbie game. Anyway.

Wrt the NK, it seems almost certainly a pr shot. It doesn't make sense in any other world because she had no real reads and wasn't pushing anything. I was thinking about who would make that kill and like, my tin foil is that quick makes that kill, he's the kind of player who I think would make a suboptimal kill because he's convinced he has a role read. I also just super expected him to die last night. Tin foil is kind of stupid though and nka isn't super reliable this early so eh. Mostly just having a lot of thinking emoji that he didn't die.

I might go to the library over the weekend so that I can go over the game properly and actually do things, my computer died and I'm stuck on my phone and it's kind of impossible to do anything properly. I've only had time to skim a bit and now make this post, am looking forward to going through eragon's stuff in particular although I found his entrance today to be kind of scummy. Dunno if he's with iceman here though?

Vote: Iceman

[nancy]

Bleh. WM subbing out is really depressing

[OkaPoka]

i checked why_mafia, he subbed out of other games as well

[OkaPoka]

This Formerfish slot has been bothering me for a while, and I can’t really make sense of it. I have iterated my confusion over his game plan if he is indeed, scum, previously but I am also confused by his whole game plan if he is town.

For a game like this one and such a “chaotic” game state that has the town completely out of wack, I am getting the impression that Formerfish is awfully content with how it’s going. I’m going to be referencing old Formerfish a bit here, so I’ll first establish my impression of what old Formerfish was like.

To preface, old Formerfish isn’t like a year ago Formerfish, it’s a few weeks ago. Though Formerfish has reiterated countless times that he is trying something new, I just can’t see why he would so drastically change his play as town, and I feel like he is discarding some of the outstanding qualities that made Formerfish such a dominant player.

Old Formerfish, first and foremost, was extremely vocal and dominant. There was a constant and high level of interaction and activity. He was spontaneous in his thought and actions and was relentless. He would drop comments on how he was reading others constantly and posted updates on what he thought on about every single interaction that occurred. He would question everyone and everything, and his style of questioning by his own words was to get scum to wear out and slip up eventually. He would call bullshit on anything he felt was off and would strongarm the lynch on those he called out.

But this Formerfish is radically different. He is calling out others at times, yes, and he has even called me out and stuff. But I am getting the feeling more and more that these interactions and comments by Formerfish are a token effort. I town read Formerfish at the beginning of the game because he showed promise of old town Formerfish who was spontaneous and ready to call others out, but as we hit end of day 1 and now day 2, I’m not seeing it anymore. We should have enough content for Formerfish to go out and hunt and eventually barrage with his posts, but Formerfish seems meek in a sense. For example, I’d expect town!Formerfish to go out and develop his read on nancy if he can’t really read her, ask her a stream of questions, but he isn’t doing that. I realize this could be a change in playstyle and personality to be more nice and reserved, but Formerfish has demonstrated a sharper edge earlier in the game, which seems completely lost now. Hell, the fact that he backed off when nancy told him was shocking in a sense.

But then again, I could be wrong. Maybe I’m misreading this and don’t see what is truly going on. I’m just worried because Formerfish isn’t displaying the same fearless and dominant gameplay that he has shown he can play, instead he seems to have opted for something else. Maybe it is a conscious effort in redesigning his play, but I don’t feel like this style of play really benefits town, at least in its current game state. Town is directionless right now, we are running in circles, at least that’s how I feel. This new Formerfish, though not the sole cause, is playing a large part in how the game is feeling in day 2.

Just my two cents though, I’m open to criticism, hopefully from Formerfish.

[nancy]

Yeah, he said he was weak day 1 so I'm also waiting to see what he brings today. I don't feel like I'm running in circles, but I wouldn't be surprised if others do besides you. You kinda need to slow down and go over day 1 like you've done here. There's so much content, you don't need to push stuff to make more.

[nancy]

Hi I'm at the library.

i burned all my reads after trinity flip and then i tossed the ashes after flicker nk

imma go reevaluate everyone including quick, starting from scratch

Yeah, don't do this.

This is exactly why I told you that playing from a PoE is better than whatever it was you were doing yesterday.

I lost two townreads between yesterday and today, but I still have two, which is far from ideal but is functional enough of a towncore under the circumstances, I have two slots that are big question marks that I want to get a solid read on today, and I have two slots that I think have a good chance of being scum. I'm not lost because I actually have a process and it builds on itself and holds itself up, it doesn't fall apart when something goes wrong. If you hadn't tunneled one of my townreads and gotten her lynched then the PoE would be smaller and my core would be stronger, but sometimes that's just how it goes, and I have to make the best of what I've got.

Like, at some point you need to figure out that the way you're approaching things is really backwards from a process standpoint.

only explanation is that the original trinity counterwagon was full town, but that is really presumptive

Are you thinking this because you don't expect mafia to try to start a new wagon when there's already a perfectly good one on you? I think it's a mistake to just say "the way the wagon formed means there's no mafia on there". That's not how you should do VCA. You should see the VCs and think, "huh, something's weird about that" and then use that data point as a starting point to figuring out your reads on the slots on question.

You're kinda already doing that, based on what I've read? You have FF as a big question mark in the VCs, and you've now gone over your read on him a bunch. That's great.

Personally my focus is on Iceman, because on the wagon on you, I am pretty confident that WhyMafia is town, Trinity is confirmed town, I'm town, you're my top townread at this point, Flicker is confirmed town, so if I'm going to say that Iceman is town then that means that both scum are in Quick/Eragon/FF. If I can get a solid read on Iceman, then I have a really good lock on where the team is and I'm hitting mafia 67% of the time lynching in that grouping. I also have an unaligned read between Quick and FF, so if I end up townreading Iceman then Eragon is basically lock scum for me, regardless of who his partner is, he is mafia in every world.

Get it?

[nancy]

Clearly, someone is lying here (going to read up, I guess). What I initially think of this is that WM is a bit too strong here on Oka in that it's really God Damn easy to poke things that you weren't around for because you had no real involvement in the game at the time. Overall, WM's case on Oka is still mostly just a lot of buzzwords. Yes, he has some decent points about Oka, but only if they are true and things aren't open to interpretation. My gut tells me this is a Scum case WM is pulling and he's trying to distract from the pressure I put on him.

Also, I think it's pretty safe to assume WM and Oka are not SvS.

I really really don't agree. I scumread Oka for a lot of the same things and I think what he's reading into is entirely reasonable. WhyMafia is my strongest townread after Oka and I think the way he came in and responded to the wagons on Trinity/Oka was extremely town. I can go back and pull quotes if needed but he had no agenda there. I also think the progression of his Oka read has been really organic, he's been all over the place with it but his movements have been intuitive the entire way.

I don't agree that the case was just a lot of or even any buzzwords and I don't understand how you're scumreading WM with that reasoning when you've said that you don't believe buzzwords are a thing.

It doesn't have to be "someone is lying here" and I think it's silly to assume the worst of WM when he's no longer here to clarify. You just have to assume he read things differently.

[nancy]

is it safe to assume that nancy is a rational and optimal player?

Heh.

I have my moments.

[nancy]

Why do you want others to talk before you?

also note the new deadline, hesitation isn't going to do town any favors.

Because it helps me sort them better.

Am not really planning on making too many posts this day phase, mostly interested to see who does stuff without me and who sits on their ass.

Am not really planning on making too many posts this day phase, mostly interested to see who does stuff without me and who sits on their ass.

thats my case

Lol.

I'm pretty sure you don't actually think I'm mafia, but... stop being stupid. I'm townreading you because I'm town. I spent the entire night phase agonizing over my read on you. Because I'm town. I couldn't tell anymore how much of my scumread was hating you for pushing on Trinity and how much was actually thinking you were mafia, and I eventually ended up thinking that you actually believed in your read on her and landed on a really strong townread on you. I did all this work because I'm town. You already know this.

[nancy]

Here are my horriable reads at the moment.

Oka - Town. Blew my mind too but yea. I'm feeling oka as town right now. I don't know why but, the post about Eragon just made sense to me and things like that tend to make me think town.
Eragon - Scum. It's pretty scummy IMO to not vote until everyone else does. Get in there and get messy. Stop sitting on the sidelines. Scum sits on sidelines.
FF - Scum. I always get suspicious of people defending me. Sorry, I tried not to feel scummy about it but now I do. Plus while I get what you're saying about your play from previous games you have to understand that it's all I have to go on.
Nancy - Scum. Leading town around even subconsciously is pretty scummy. I will say this. Anyone who uses my entire spiel about the IC being suspicious had better drop it. I don't care what read I have on Nancy. If scum takes me to LyLo I'm going to be sheeping her 100%. No questions. Whatever she votes I vote. So don't you dare take me to LyLo.
WhyMafia - Town. This one is harder to explain. Call it gut. I hate calling it gut though cause as a townie I should be able to logically explain where I'm at. I can't though.....
Quick - Town. I want to say scum but I can't. I think Quick's approach is so different from my own that I want to call him scum for it but he's been 100% consistent with it and I have to sit back and say that there isn't actually anything scummy there.

Hum.

Yeah.

Now that I've actually read the post.

Dude's town. Lol.

Vote: Eragon

[nancy]

honestly this whole im being quiet rn because <reason> is some shit id do as scum when i dont wanna talk

Your scumgame sounds boring.

I feel better about Iceman and I'm tired and my other games need more attention right now. I'll go through Iceman again properly and ISO him and everything but I'm pretty sure he's just town here. Would lynch Quick last out of Eragon/FF/Quick but I should really try to get a read on him that isn't "nightmare zone" before EoD.

[nancy]

I forgot to comment on Eragon. Was gonna wait and make it a big proper post. He may have spewed Iceman town by saying Iceman was in his PoE then calling him newbtown then saying he was scumreading him. They probably maybe aren't together. All of his posts that I read so far seem really agenda-y and his NKA feels like he has an informed PoV. Would be flabbergasted if he ever flipped town atm, and I only bust that word out for really special occasions.

[nancy]

Oh, iceman, I didn't say anything before but you literally don't get to say anything about people being in control and not hammering early after your hammer at EOD yesterday. Kindly take your ideas home and burn them.

[IcemanCh]

Oh, iceman, I didn't say anything before but you literally don't get to say anything about people being in control and not hammering early after your hammer at EOD yesterday. Kindly take your ideas home and burn them.

[IcemanCh]

I didn't hammer early. I stated my intention. I gave more then enough time for anyone to say stop or do something differnt. When it came down to the final moments I again announced and made my intentions very clear.

You can't misconstrue that into a LOLhammer.

[IcemanCh]

VOTE: Nancy

[IcemanCh]

I think Scum is either Nancy and FF or Nancy and Eragon. Either way I want the question around Nancy cleared up today.

[Eragon]

I forgot to comment on Eragon. Was gonna wait and make it a big proper post. He may have spewed Iceman town by saying Iceman was in his PoE then calling him newbtown then saying he was scumreading him. They probably maybe aren't together. All of his posts that I read so far seem really agenda-y and his NKA feels like he has an informed PoV. Would be flabbergasted if he ever flipped town atm, and I only bust that word out for really special occasions.

In post 954 I had Iceman as a nullscum read
Then on 1261 I put him as nulltown because I looked the game over again and realiazed that a lot of his stuff was from a towny noob point of view.

And I put null-Town in my PoE, but then I put another PoS saying leaning these 3, and he isn’t one of those.
I fail to see your point.

When did I make a NKA???

Can you explain what about my posts are agenda-y?

[nancy]

I didn't hammer early. I stated my intention. I gave more then enough time for anyone to say stop or do something differnt. When it came down to the final moments I again announced and made my intentions very clear.

You can't misconstrue that into a LOLhammer.

I said way before that I wanted flicker and eragon to catch up before hammer. Which they had just started doing, when you hammered. Right after I said don't hammer and you told me to go fuck myself.

Jesus I hate this site.

[nancy]

VOTE: Nancy

Why am I scum, iceman?

[OkaPoka]

I didn't hammer early. I stated my intention. I gave more then enough time for anyone to say stop or do something differnt. When it came down to the final moments I again announced and made my intentions very clear.

You can't misconstrue that into a LOLhammer.

I said way before that I wanted flicker and eragon to catch up before hammer. Which they had just started doing, when you hammered. Right after I said don't hammer and you told me to go fuck myself.

Jesus I hate this site.

sorry what? could you link me this post?

[nancy]

I forgot to comment on Eragon. Was gonna wait and make it a big proper post. He may have spewed Iceman town by saying Iceman was in his PoE then calling him newbtown then saying he was scumreading him. They probably maybe aren't together. All of his posts that I read so far seem really agenda-y and his NKA feels like he has an informed PoV. Would be flabbergasted if he ever flipped town atm, and I only bust that word out for really special occasions.

In post 954 I had Iceman as a nullscum read
Then on 1261 I put him as nulltown because I looked the game over again and realiazed that a lot of his stuff was from a towny noob point of view.

And I put null-Town in my PoE, but then I put another PoS saying leaning these 3, and he isn’t one of those.
I fail to see your point.

When did I make a NKA???

Can you explain what about my posts are agenda-y?

I can't pull quotes on my phone. It's all in your posting this day phase.

Agenda-y: it feels like you're going after people not because you think they're mafia but because you just want to get them lynched or make them look bad, basically. Your stances seem contrived, like your trinity read which conveniently let you hop on her wagon without doing anything to push it, and allowing you to pull off her at any point because you said she was twtbaw.

[OkaPoka]

I don't agree that pressure is no longer there when I take off my vote. I think you can push people very effectively and apply a ton of pressure without ever voting them.

@WM I don't have an issue with that post from Oka.

That's just not true and I'm not 100% sure why you keep saying it. I might be new but, I know effective pressure only really comes from intents to hammer. Which you've made sure we've avoided at all costs.

We can add Flicker to the list of need to be sorted tomorrow.

Trinity is at L-1 right?

Well make that a double intent.

I don't think she's scum. I think I've lost interest in pursing Oka as scum. For now. I think I have other questions.

UNVOTE:

I don't agree that pressure is no longer there when I take off my vote. I think you can push people very effectively and apply a ton of pressure without ever voting them.

@WM I don't have an issue with that post from Oka.

That's just not true and I'm not 100% sure why you keep saying it. I might be new but, I know effective pressure only really comes from intents to hammer. Which you've made sure we've avoided at all costs.

One of my best friends who plays mafia almost never uses her vote. She has been playing way longer than I have, she is one of the best scumhunters I know, and she has pushed through more lynches without ever even voting the person than I have pushed through while voting them. Believe me, your vote is important but you don't need it to apply pressure to someone or even to lynch them. Not that I'm saying you should play like her... just have an open mind.

\
I have an open mind but, I haven't seen any actual pressure from the way you're doing this. It's just the rug being pulled out from under town.

Everytime town get's their footing BAM it's gone.

Well make that a double intent.

I don't think she's scum. I think I've lost interest in pursing Oka as scum. For now. I think I have other questions.

UNVOTE:

Why have you lost interest in Oka? Now would be the time as we’re so close to this mislynch on me.

It's probably better worded that I'm shelving my scum read on him at the moment. I'm tunneling him and it's not letting me push anywhere. We are not going to get him lynched today and I think for towns sake you have to be lynched. It is a mislynch but it's the only thing that will allow town to move on. I'll be very interested to see what he does tonight.

I'm going to hammer in an hour after I've had coffee

If you think Trinity is a mislynch, then don't hammer her, Iceman. Jeez. What the heckie.

That is silly. She is town but, getting her flip will help reveal scum.

Odd that quick hasn't hammered like he said he would and he's letting me do it.......

VOTE: trinity

It'll be interesting to see what scum does tonight.

I am coming around on Trinity. Feeling more and more like that is Scum.

Going to consolidate the wagons at this point, hate unvoting FF, but we need stances on stuff.

(was going to vote Trinity here). No longer going to because Trinity is at L-1.

Consider this an intent to hammer.

This was over 24 hours ago.

which one nancy? (which post did ice go ahead and tell you to fuck yourself)

[nancy]

I didn't hammer early. I stated my intention. I gave more then enough time for anyone to say stop or do something differnt. When it came down to the final moments I again announced and made my intentions very clear.

You can't misconstrue that into a LOLhammer.

I said way before that I wanted flicker and eragon to catch up before hammer. Which they had just started doing, when you hammered. Right after I said don't hammer and you told me to go fuck myself.

Jesus I hate this site.

sorry what? could you link me this post?

I don't have computer access, sorry. Quick and I had a while conversation about it, I'm surprised you don't remember.