Forgotten Hourglass [Game Over]

[projectmatt]

It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.

that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.

i'm not super opposed to this wagon but i don't think it's really going to garner that much information, regardless of the flip. i'll hammer on it before the deadline if we need.

Matt, would you mind elaborating on why you weren't opposed to the Mylo wagon?

i thought mylo was possibly scum because his catch-up post was weak. i said it here:

did you like mylo's content? i thought it was relatively bland and safe.

that said, he was nowhere near my top scum-read and he seemed like the definition of an easy lynch, which is why i assumed his lynch wouldn't give us much information or interactions to read off of.

[Moment]

that said, he was nowhere near my top scum-read and he seemed like the definition of an easy lynch, which is why i assumed his lynch wouldn't give us much information or interactions to read off of.

Who were some of those stronger scumreads that you had? Why didn't you mention preferring them over the Mylo wagon if you thought that he was just an easy lynch?

[projectmatt]

my stronger scumreads at the time were sakura/moment/muffin, which were generally disagreed with except for muffin.

the reason i didnt push super hard for a counter-wagon is that i thought mylo could easily be mafia, and i wasn't confident in my own reads, as i explained here:

It bothers me that Matt isn't on this wagon.

that's fair. for full disclosure, ive been spending the last day re-thinking my reads because im pretty positive my initial assessments were wrong and that my reads are off. i'll post more of my thoughts on this later.

anyway, i've been trying to reassess my approach to this game. i'll have good reads at some point.

[Moment]

Alright, then. For the sake of disclosure, I got bored and decided to do a bit of reading and came across a previous game of yours where the lynch of a lurker was a hot topic and you had this to say, among other things:

Spoiler:

I feel as though there's been a pretty clear misinterpretation on what I've said versus what you guys are trying to make it look like I'm saying.

Can lurkers be scum?

Absolutely.

If someone is lurking, does this mean they are scum?

No.

Currently, the way I see it - there is no logical justification to vote BJC other than for the idea of a liability lynch (which I disagree with strongly) or because he is lurking. Lynching someone solely on the basis of lurking is not a good idea. I am not, nor have I ever implied that because certain people (like Aptil!) are lurking, that they are town. This shouldn't be hard logic to follow, thank you.

And in terms of the bigger fish I mean that literally as I have indicated, I think that BJC is very likely to be town and there

are

better things to do than vote someone out of policy. As for the mafia? Dunno, I'm working on it.

It made me wonder if this previous viewpoint was a contradiction to being okay with Mylo's lynch here despite his low amount of content to actually go off of when forming a read.

Do you have any previous experience with Myloninja or do you know his meta in some way? I suppose I should've asked this earlier.

[Ankamius]

tonight is not the night I'll have a reformed reads list

sorry

[projectmatt]

i wouldn't say that it's a contradiction since my objection in that game was about lynching someone just for lurking. in mylo's case, my scumread was because they posts they did make were bland and scum-motivated.

also, i don't have experience with them or know their meta.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Oh, I kind of skipped over the Maria discussion. Having read back through the game during the night, I didn't think that scum Maria would talk about the Mylo wagon the way she did. I'd imagine that scum, seeing their partner go down, would almost always choose to try to gain some kind of credit from it rather than make a defense that would certainly be futile. Some of these quotes should show what I'm referring to:

Spoiler:

Sakura I still have as a scumlean but not as hard as before because I feel like she's voting anything that walks.

yeah that's what i'm doing, kinda.
Dunno why that lowers your scumlean tho.

I don't remember you being as reckless as scum.

Also the mylongninja wagon is bad it's a 3 person lurker that will give no info regardless of the flip.

Will vote Mylo if it reaches 16 hours or less and then when that flips town Brain Muffin and Dunn all go in the grinder

If you explain yours I'll happily do the same. Even though I've done that about twice already (besides muffin)
Pedit: Mylo is the easy lurker lynch that scum are going to grab onto for a free mislynch. Nothing Mylo has done looks that towny or scummy to me but the way votes are happening it's telling all in itself.

Like I kid you not i'd bet money scum prob in there head be like "oh shit partner getting wagoned let's wagon mylo" I don't see Mylo flipping scum although it is a great info lynch to see where everyone makes an excuse to scumread next so I don't mind them dying per say
Pedit: I already explain mine kind of to friend!
Pedit2: Never said that

The fact wagons have tried to get started and then lead back to Mylo is telling in itself that we were wagoning scum most likely at one point and then it just went back to Mylo but hey go nuts and wagon town I'll hear all your excuses D2

In contrast to scum betraying their knowledge of everyone's alignment, I feel like comments such as these betray a

lack

of informedness.

I was thinking about your Maria buddying comments D1 and now I understand why nothing she did actually looked like buddying to me. Because, it just seemed quite natural to me and I doubt I would have even considered it, had you not suggested it first. Usually if I’m being pocketed, I’ll get pinged in some way. There will be something about the way they’re reacting to me that either seems insincere or over the top, and I didn’t get that sense at all from Maria.

[Kokichi Oma]

Kokichi what is your Sakura read.

Scum read her at first but now shes acting normal. But, you should vote wisdom

[Moment]

Well, as long as TBG, Katsuki, and zMuffinMan are still "playing" the game like they are, my list of suspects pretty much just boils down to Kokichi, matt and maybe Spiffeh. So...

VOTE: projectmatt

------

I was thinking about your Maria buddying comments D1 and now I understand why nothing she did actually looked like buddying to me. Because, it just seemed quite natural to me and I doubt I would have even considered it, had you not suggested it first. Usually if I’m being pocketed, I’ll get pinged in some way. There will be something about the way they’re reacting to me that either seems insincere or over the top, and I didn’t get that sense at all from Maria.

Sure.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well, as long as TBG, Katsuki, and zMuffinMan are still "playing" the game like they are, my list of suspects pretty much just boils down to Kokichi, matt and maybe Spiffeh. So...

VOTE: projectmatt

------

I was thinking about your Maria buddying comments D1 and now I understand why nothing she did actually looked like buddying to me. Because, it just seemed quite natural to me and I doubt I would have even considered it, had you not suggested it first. Usually if I’m being pocketed, I’ll get pinged in some way. There will be something about the way they’re reacting to me that either seems insincere or over the top, and I didn’t get that sense at all from Maria.

Sure.

I don’t know if that’s sarcasm but I’m not wrong about that.

[Moment]

I wasn't saying you were.

[Kokichi Oma]

I still dislike Dunnstral but perhaps it's a case of me not understanding something so I'm calling it scummy? Like I still can see him flipping scum but the thing giving me cold feet is I can't see anything that I find scummy in his iso besides the early game play it's mostly nullish.

What should be giving you cold feet is yesterday I was scum because I -would have- voted mylo or something but today I'm not town because I didn't vote mylo

I don't understand what you're saying here can you reword it.

I love it when kaito and maki argue, but can you vote wisdom?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wasn't saying you were.

What are your thoughts on Kokichi, Spiffeh? Kokichi’s “I need you to be in this game” comment, definitely sounds like pocketing because there is no logical basis for it. His explanation rests on his reading me as obvtown, nothing else.

I think Ank is likely town based on tone. I could be wrong about this but she seems genuine. I can’t say I feel that about Spiffeh but then I don’t know his meta, so that’s not much to go on.

[Kokichi Oma]

Well I did scumread you at first.

And Nancy, you bringing up that is weird. Last game when I townread you, did I give a reason other than meta?

[FakeGod]

VoteCount 2.2

projectmatt [6] - Purrcocet, TehBrawlGuy, Nosferatu, Brian Skies, Wisdom, Moment
Wisdom [3] - Kokichi Oma, Dunnstral x2
zMuffinMan [1] - Sakura Hana

Not Voting [7]

- Katsuki, Nancy Drew 39, MariaR, zMuffinMan, Spiffeh, Ankamius, projectmatt

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to lynch.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2018-08-04 15:00:00)

[Nancy Drew 39]

Well I did scumread you at first.

And Nancy, you bringing up that is weird. Last game when I townread you, did I give a reason other than meta?

Yes you did scumread me first, why does that preclude you pocketing me now?

What is weird about it?

When did I ever say I was suspicious of you townreading me?

You know damn well, that isn’t what made me suspicious. It’s the “I need you in the game” comment which from what you were saying. was entirely predicted on that. Because it doesn’t make any sense. How does being read as obvtown somehow turn you into the great scumhunting hope?

[Kokichi Oma]

It was a joke. I was exaggerating. Why do you take everything so seriously. I do townread you though.

[Brian Skies]

Vc's like 1.6 and 1.8 don't make me think Nos is scum but I think 1.6 to 1.7 is one of the more telling VC's in the set looking at said vote counts I think moment is one of the worser looking people in this. I was townreading them for how they were scumreading me for buddying and that's not really false but I'd like to hear if I'm coocoo or not for suspecting that I imagine'd they would be voting me here but it doesn't seem like they are. If they were I'd still believe the read but now it feels like something they just tried to bite into.

Why do you think Moment should have been voting you here? Or better yet, why do you think him voting Mylo here makes him look bad?

[Brian Skies]

In contrast to scum betraying their knowledge of everyone's alignment, I feel like comments such as these

betray a lack of informedness

.

What?

[Sakura Hana]

I think he means the opposite of TMI.

[Brian Skies]

Alright. I'll go ahead and just say that I disagree with him.

[Nancy Drew 39]

It was a joke. I was exaggerating. Why do you take everything so seriously. I do townread you though.

It’s a Mafia game and I’m trying to sort you?

In Minuet, I never even questioned that you might not be town.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Alright. I'll go ahead and just say that I disagree with him.

Why?

[Dunnstral]

MariaR, why don't we talk about why you have those suspects after Mylo flip?

[zMuffinMan]

Katsuki and zMuffinMan are still "playing" the game like they are

i have no idea what youre implying

almost every post ive made today has been all about discussing reads. all super duper protown stuff

same with cupcake (though he might be scum)

please dont make slanderous statements