Mini Normal 2023 - Game Over

[Krazy]

I do not understand why rob is on the table with 2 claims.

I don't understand?

Garmr claimed VT and gustavo claimed JOAT. What does that have to do with Rob?

In what world does it make sense to take 3 claims on d1? It has nothing to do with Rob outside of the fact that Rob hasn't claimed.

There was nothing in Garmr's claim that should have made people re-evaluate, other than a bunch of NAI AtE. Yet somehow he has managed to out a TPR before going down. And now you want to out another claim.

[Locke113]

I want to lynch gustavo but i'm not sure if it's his polar opposite game style making me bias and not caring if his town or the fact his really scum.

Honestly I feel like the reason so many people have clashed with Gustavo has been clashing personalities/playstyles

Now then let's start with one person we should rule out and another who's I can personally rule out.

Goldren Robster

- Now I see people going "she must be scum if garmrs town" or saying "one of us must be scum as she hard defended me." But this is really flawed logic and the problem people have with her is "it doesn't make sense from town."

Since I know I'm town and was under the fire of a mislynch at the time the majority of people wouldn't bat a eyelid if golden put a vote on me, especially since it looked like she might of scum read me before when she called me out for chainsawing. Also what benefit does it bring to scum to stop a potential mislynch. Also gustavo would be under fire tomorrow after my town flip with the mentality of this player base. Plus golden robster was in a good position before they defended me. They didn't need to make a gambit to try and look town. This appears to me as a town read cranked up to the extreme.

Going to be honest I don't think I deserve this extreme town read. But this extreme reactions makes more sense coming from town and not from scum, as scum have more information and less to gain from this; The objective for them is staying alive, while town can win by getting rid of scum. If scum were to try and get town cred from defending me, they would do it in a way that doesn't interrupt my lynch to much.

I personally can't see that level of extreme defence of a town read coming from a townie on d1, that sort of confidence is the sort of thing I'd expect from someone with knowledge a normal townie wouldn't have, and I don't think we have any PRs that would already have that knowledge so the only options I see are GR was either scum trying to use you to gain towncred or scum protecting her partner. The execution for both of these things wasn't great but that doesn't automatically mean it can't have been from scum

Can I say something. You are acting really arrogant here

Hypocrite

This is why people don't like playing with you.

So you can scum read me for asking questions you think are pointless but I think one of yours is pointless and that’s why people hate playing with me?

Get lost

Word it this way. You asked questions, some were redundant, Nearly all You never followed up on them,You didn't use the answers in a case and you didn't show how they affected your read latter on. Since people can't read your mind they seem like throwaway questions. When I pressed you on it you could of showed why you asked them and what effect they had. This would of helped me and maybe others reading in on our conversation your mind set at the time. Instead you basically go herp da derp you are scum I don't have to answer you.
^This was a case for you being scum. You could of easily proven me wrong on this one by showing that your questions were useful and what you got out of them.

I was asking for reads which is information that everyone can use. The answer you gave me was basically "you'll be dead soon anyway why do I have to bother"
^This is dickish and doesn't help town at all. It's a different scenario from the one above

Also

Red text of truth: my frustration was genuine and I did ask the mod to replace out, they gave me time to cool my head by asking if I was sure. You can decide if that frustration comes from a town or scum player

I'm trying to make up for my over reaction by playing to the best of my ability because I feel guilty for asking to replace out.

Still don't townread you but I don't think scum who'd faked getting frustrated and wanting to replace out would lie about having communications with the mod about it so I don't doubt that your frustration was definitely real now

7. The Mafia use day talk in this game. If other private threads exist, they use day talk as well

Fuck didn't notice that.

This is quite important information that I didn't notice until now either.

UNVOTE:

My vote in theory is on garmr. My original plan this game wasn’t to tunnel but I don’t consider this tunneling since he’s been the largest wagon.

I’ll hammer whoever of garmr/rob gets to l-1.

Now people can stop talking to me since I annoy everyone and start talking to each other.

Maybe gamma/pop/Hiraki will respond to somebody else asking them my questions.

v/la until Wednesday

I’ve got a very busy next couple of days at work. No time to “circle jerk” on mafia websites.

P.edit - wrong/misrep? Who knows but that’s my honest interpretation on how I see it.

Have a nice life.

On one hand your interactions with other players have definitely dominated this game until now and having that stop might allow for more chances to see how everyone interacts with each other but at the same time I hope you don't feel like you have to keep silent even after you're done with work

gustavo - garmr i think is town vs town

James had pressure on him early and has pretty much disappeared and been able to fly under the radar since that early pressure, so i still heavily scum read him

gamma is a big scum read of mine also

ive been at a wedding this weekend but im flyng back to the us tomorrow so hopefully i will be able to dedicate a bit more effort to this game this week

Can you explain why you think Garmr v Gustavo is TvT?

Why the scum read on Gamma?

Dang, I am sorry.

What is this about?

Music has been on and off VLA for a while now across site. So it sucks that they're not here but we know the reason.

Where the heck is Kop?

Kop was replaced by Hiraki

I do not understand why rob is on the table with 2 claims.

I don't understand?

Garmr claimed VT and gustavo claimed JOAT. What does that have to do with Rob?

In what world does it make sense to take 3 claims on d1? It has nothing to do with Rob outside of the fact that Rob hasn't claimed.

There was nothing in Garmr's claim that should have made people re-evaluate, other than a bunch of NAI AtE. Yet somehow he has managed to out a TPR before going down. And now you want to out another claim.

Does it really matter that much if we get another claim?

Garmr didn't out a TPR, Gus outed himself.

[Gustavo]

I hope you don't feel like you have to keep silent even after you're done with work

Reading what I’ve missed it’s probably best if I just stay quiet. I’m highly annoyed garmr is getting let off the hook. The unholy trinity are still basically doing the same stuff and I don’t see anything from anyone else that gives me hope.

[Garmr]

I hope you don't feel like you have to keep silent even after you're done with work

Reading what I’ve missed it’s probably best if I just stay quiet. I’m highly annoyed garmr is getting let off the hook. The unholy trinity are still basically doing the same stuff and I don’t see anything from anyone else that gives me hope.

Other than me who's the other two?

[Gustavo]

The unholy trinity are still basically doing the same stuff

3 players who if town, I don’t like how they are playing because they are being intentional vague/difficult.(gamma/Hiraki/pop)

Mod didn’t confirm that conversation took place which means that red text stunt was just that. A stunt.

[Garmr]

The unholy trinity are still basically doing the same stuff

3 players who if town, I don’t like how they are playing because they are being intentional vague/difficult.(gamma/Hiraki/pop)

Mod didn’t confirm that conversation took place which means that red text stunt was just that. A stunt.

I could like quote the message here if the Dunnstral would allow it. But that's sad your trying to push that as a point to why you think I'm scum.

[Gustavo]

Nice misrep. I thought you were scum before you “replaced out”

I treat the red text of truth as a trust tell though, which is against site rules. It’s implied that you typing in red means you won’t lie, and only one person can confirm it. If you’re lying that’s attempted cheating

[popopopopopopo]

@locke i believe gustavo's claim, as for garmr, I have town read him for the longest time but i dont really remember why...

as for gamma he has been very wishy washy and his iso doesnt show any attempts at scumhunting, also since he unvoted gustavo after he claimed JOAT, has not voted anywhere else, which to me is a scumtell because he isnt actively pushing a scumread, which is what you are supposed to do as town. i would prefer a french lynch tho

[Garmr]

Nice misrep. I thought you were scum before you “replaced out”

I treat the red text of truth as a trust tell though, which is against site rules. It’s implied that you typing in red means you won’t lie, and only one person can confirm it. If you’re lying that’s attempted cheating

How is that a misrep? You are trying to push that as a point as to why you think I'm scum. Also I think many people are glad you're not a mod then.

[Gustavo]

I’m checking with site admin for clarification but per the wiki, I’m pretty sure red text of truth is actually considered a trust tell.

[Garmr]

I’m checking with site admin for clarification but per the wiki, I’m pretty sure red text of truth is actually considered a trust tell.

Also from the mafia wiki

A trust tell fits both of the following criteria:
The player insists that they only do this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.
The player, over the course of multiple games, only does this behavior as a certain alignment, and never as any other alignment.

I feel like your just looking for excuses to get me in trouble.

[BuJaber]

I do not understand why rob is on the table with 2 claims.

I don't understand?

Garmr claimed VT and gustavo claimed JOAT. What does that have to do with Rob?

In what world does it make sense to take 3 claims on d1? It has nothing to do with Rob outside of the fact that Rob hasn't claimed.

There was nothing in Garmr's claim that should have made people re-evaluate, other than a bunch of NAI AtE. Yet somehow he has managed to out a TPR before going down. And now you want to out another claim.

Because of how confident I am of the robster slot SR, I am not sure garmr will flip scum.

So yeah outing a claim > lynching a townie

[BuJaber]

Alternatively you can think of it this way:

Do you think anybody in this game would not lynch garmr at lylo? I promise you even if robster flips scum if I live til lylo and garmr is there he'd be looking super sketchy to me. And if robster flips town garmr is d2 lynch anyway because it means robster has no information whatsoever and garmr's actions alone if we rekove robster from the equation don't look so good.

Garmr is dead man walking. If he's scum he won't endgame. If he's town scum will be forced to keep him alive. That makes their NKs suboptimal.

[Krazy]

Vote BuJaber

[Dunnstral]

VC 1.5

Golden Robster (3) BuJaber, Locke113, FrenchAchilles
Garmr (2) James Brafin, UnrealSeal
Gustavo (1) UC Voyager
FrenchAchilles (1) popopopopopopo
UnrealSeal (1) Hiraki
Bujaber (1) Krazy


Not Voting (4) Music, Gamma Emerald, Garmr, Gustavo

With 13 players, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline ends in (expired on 2018-08-07 07:00:00)

Notes: FrenchAchill was prodded recently, I didn't note it when it happened so I'm noting it now
Uc Voyager/Former Golden Robster is being replaced

Red text of truth: my frustration was genuine and I did ask the mod to replace out, they gave me time to cool my head by asking if I was sure. You can decide if that frustration comes from a town or scum player

mod please confirm this conversation took place.

I can't answer inquiries like this

[BuJaber]

Vote BuJaber

If you're town please don't shrug this game off and do look back and re-read it for your own self-improvement.

[Gamma Emerald]

The unholy trinity are still basically doing the same stuff

3 players who if town, I don’t like how they are playing because they are being intentional vague/difficult.(gamma/Hiraki/pop)

Mod didn’t confirm that conversation took place which means that red text stunt was just that. A stunt.

How am I being vague/difficult
I don't like the tone of that

[Gamma Emerald]

@locke i believe gustavo's claim, as for garmr, I have town read him for the longest time but i dont really remember why...

as for gamma he has been very wishy washy and his iso doesnt show any attempts at scumhunting, also since he unvoted gustavo after he claimed JOAT, has not voted anywhere else, which to me is a scumtell because he isnt actively pushing a scumread, which is what you are supposed to do as town. i would prefer a french lynch tho

The wishy washy/ no attempts at scumhunting thing is just BS, I get that accusation fucking always and it pisses me off, like whatever your version of "scumhunting" is, piss off with it because apparently it's not my method. As for not voting anywhere I sometimes do that regardless of alignment, and I have pressed around to see if there is somewhere else I'd like to vote.
tbh this post strikes me as scummy because it seems to be falsely interpreting my play in a way that seems agenda driven.

[Gamma Emerald]

Gustavo (1) UC Voyager

Oh fuck HE'S in the game?

[Gustavo]

How am I being vague/difficult

Not really explaining your votes. Ignoring requests to explain and when you finally do your response implied it was PL but when you voted it implied like it was due to a scum read. I also don’t see you being useful in general

[Gustavo]

The wishy washy/ no attempts at scumhunting thing is just BS, I get that accusation fucking always and it pisses me off, like whatever your version of "scumhunting" is, piss off with it because apparently it's not my method. As for not voting anywhere I sometimes do that regardless of alignment, and I have pressed around to see if there is somewhere else I'd like to vote.
tbh this post strikes me as scummy because it seems to be falsely interpreting my play in a way that seems agenda driven.

This is s good example of you being difficult.

[Gustavo]

And yes, I realize I’m the last person to criticize being difficult but not scum hunting is a huge problem and I don’t see you doing any. So is not voting.

If you do that as town in last games, then no offense but that’s terrible. People hate me cause I’m stubborn and scum read the wrong things, but I’d never let anyone accuse me of not scum hunting and I certainly wouldn’t not use my vote.

Town should always be trying their best. Scum can’t scum hunt so it becomes very clear eventually if everyone is putting in max effort.

[Krazy]

Alternatively you can think of it this way:

Do you think anybody in this game would not lynch garmr at lylo? I promise you even if robster flips scum if I live til lylo and garmr is there he'd be looking super sketchy to me. And if robster flips town garmr is d2 lynch anyway because it means robster has no information whatsoever and garmr's actions alone if we rekove robster from the equation don't look so good.

Garmr is dead man walking. If he's scum he won't endgame. If he's town scum will be forced to keep him alive. That makes their NKs suboptimal.

So no one else looked at this and thought BuJaber just hardclaimed scum?

No?

Okay I'll just see myself out.

[Gustavo]

I’m with you Krazy. Bu has looked really bad since I’ve been at l-2. That post is bad I agree.

[Gamma Emerald]

How am I being vague/difficult

Not really explaining your votes. Ignoring requests to explain and when you finally do your response implied it was PL but when you voted it implied like it was due to a scum read. I also don’t see you being useful in general

Link to which vote(s) you speak of? And how am I not "useful in general"? You talk about being vague, but that accusation itself is rather vague.

The wishy washy/ no attempts at scumhunting thing is just BS, I get that accusation fucking always and it pisses me off, like whatever your version of "scumhunting" is, piss off with it because apparently it's not my method. As for not voting anywhere I sometimes do that regardless of alignment, and I have pressed around to see if there is somewhere else I'd like to vote.
tbh this post strikes me as scummy because it seems to be falsely interpreting my play in a way that seems agenda driven.

This is s good example of you being difficult.

Difficult how?