didn't several people claim to vote Titus itt? like I just woulda claimed I targeted Nancy again or some shit. the scary part is that your case feels like a scumcase but the rest of your play seems fine. like you've abandoned all concept of nuance when attempting to read my slot and it's bordering on insulting how little you think of my level of skill. >_>
In post 7002, the worst wrote:didn't several people claim to vote Titus itt? like I just woulda claimed I targeted Nancy again or some shit. the scary part is that your case feels like a scumcase but the rest of your play seems fine. like you've abandoned all concept of nuance when attempting to read my slot and it's bordering on insulting how little you think of my level of skill. >_>
No nuance in what I was saying yesterday?
You're just upset I avoided a mislynch and killed your buddy instead.
In post 7002, the worst wrote:like you've abandoned all concept of nuance when attempting to read my slot
You seriously want to accuse me of no nuance when you put me to L-2 or L-3 with absolutely zero reasoning and then flat out refused to provide reasoning until my mislynch was off the cards. You're hilarious.
In post 6996, stungun0404 wrote:Thank god. Scum just literally saved me from leading a mislynch wagon. I had a 2000+ word writeup ready where I thought shiro was near lockscum, and i'm posting it anyway so you guys have proof that this was what i thought. And had the evidence to back it up too. I'll copy and paste it in here, so as to have proof of how much i worked on it
But I still am townblocking this crew of players: Sakura Hana, MathBlade, Toranaga, Stungun, Frozen angel (who is locktown pretty much now to me; Titus clearly attempted to brainwash her d1), and Sando. Will have to check my confidence on these players again now with a shiro townflip confirmed, but fa is without a doubt town for me.
------
Took an abundance of notes over the night phase, so i will simply copy and paste to spill any thoughts and conclusions here. I believe this together with a scumflip of titus--who i tunneled hard most of last day phase-- might make up for how i had nothing coming into yesterday except for that i had isolated ankamius and found her slot to be town so i voted her for leader as she was first alphabetically among living players, and since she was town enough i decided to end my search for a leader to vote there.
Spoiler: this is long and largely unfiltered
Toranaga is
town
. Toranaga vs. Titus is absolutely not
scum
vs.
scum
imo.
1049 upholds this; tog at this moment must be toranaga, and titus never confirmed that when i asked who tog was. lack of follow-up conclusion (re: on alignment of toranaga after numbers flip) likely means titus didn't have any incentive to provide reasoning to clear toranaga as
town
. Further, ankamius had
townblocked
toranaga, and at eod i definitely saw
town motive
in some things he did.
So, I feel confident enough to
townblock
sakura hana, toranaga, mathblade, frozen angel, and sando. In addition to myself (stungun) knowing i am
town
, which you are free to discount if you would like. I can explain each of these cogently if need be. Feel free if after considering these other notes i took you still need further explanation on the towniness of a player.
FA IS CONCLUSIVELY--AGAINST ATTACK--
TOWN
TO ME. I
LOCKTOWN
READ HER NOW. This is because a). blatant brainwashing attempts by Titus regarding who she should target with power roles--suggesting she randomize them. FA very clearly did not agree to this plan, and in fact was heavily against it in a way that screams towniness for her now with a Titus
scumflip
. If that was
scum
theatre, I heavily believe both of them drop their argument there at some point, BUT they didn't. b). Titus tried to subtly pick at possibilities of fa being
scum
so as to try and discredit her at the start on D1, and she found out this didn't quite work and instead decided to pocket fa to try and obtain powers in a way
scum
titus does not do to
scum
fa imo. Titus even said D1 leader is always
scum-motivated
at one point, meaning she wouldn't have batted at suggestions of fa being
scum
. And c). Shiro even tried brainwashing fa by having her choose only 2 leader targets, which would clearly benefit
, so a clear point to nancydrew's credit given a titus
scumflip
.
i think
town
almost entirely was on the titus wagon yesterday, because
scum
held her as precious to their survival. this is apparent given the total unstated and stated reluctance to a titus lynch by several players. If
scum
had helped by bussing titus, i have absolute faith that the last day phase would not have lasted as long as it did.
1965 by titus asks why tw, hebi and shiro need to be reinvestigated. maybe a
scum
buddy is in there?
2177 may be trying to get a
scum buddy
townread
2183: "Shiro and random are just lurkers and just tentative based on votes."
scum buddy
there imo, and it's definitely not random/mathblade.
i'm pretty sure shiro is
scum
. toranaga is
town
from what would be harmful interactions with titus on d1 if toranaga was
scum
with titus. additionally, i don't feel torg changes vote to creature if
scum
with titus and just accepts the distancing attempt at eod last day phase
2195 human sequencer noted
2212 = perfect post for Titus to include partner in somewhere
shiro is most likely
scum
imo.
titus attacks players d1 for fa as leader vote. only numbers, toranaga, shiro and cerb who is
conftown
voted for fa as leader.
scum
faction may have killed cerb to deflect attention away from fa vote wagon given scum flip of numbers and how titus had pushed it and it had been correct, and how titus knew that fa leader pick was
scum-motivated
= probably 2 scum exactly voted for fa as leader.
by proven flips and PoE, 123 is
scum
, torg is
town
, and cerb is
town
. So this means only shiro makes sense as
scum
here. this is clear given titus did not really check on the other 2 players for their votes on fa d2, meaning she really didn't have incentive to continue there because of cerb
townflip
. She thereby is excused to drop it after that, so she could continue to "coast" d2 by pushing a different angle with an excuse to move away from that pool of players. I think she nightkills someone else n1 and continues to promote that perspective being possible regarding the other 3 players if none of the others were
scum
, or at least allows
town
themselves to pursue that. Given she dropped it and her faction killed cerb makes me think shiro is also a
scumpartner
of titus.
Scum
titus probably does not question
scum
zmuffinman on a conclusion of brassherald and nicorobin being scum together, and given both the questions are about
townplayers
being
scumread
(i know this as brassherald = ank and nicorobin =stungun = me now), this was probably an attempt to gain towncred and not have a
scum
partner flesh out a response, but i might be wrong here. Further, i think this means she would question
townreads
on
scum
partners, like shiro, which she did in fact question d1.
Supposedly, Titus states in 2032 she pushed Shiro and UFO (which she keeps referring to vaguely and i have figured out that is toranaga), but this is far from the truth. Only early mentions of shiro in her entire iso before that are in 870, where titus asked about an early
townread
on zmuffinman (who might be
town
, idk?) and specifically shiro just because "no cookies". What kind of reasoning to attach to questioning someone over their towniness is that? Titus
scumreads
shiro -- who similarly to her number on reads which literally says just "eat rope" in her reads list, Titus says "
scum
. no cookies."
But yet titus never stated a real reason for early
scumread
on shiro. Numbers also goes on to
townread
shiro after a few other players
townread
him, echoing in a sense. Titus never really engaged in anything meaningful with shiro, and apparently her stance on shiro changed after he posted a post including just a cookie. What?
Yet the real oddity D2 is that Titus starts out in post 2032 saying she pushed UFO and Shiro "
A LOT
" on day 1 when this in fact is far from the truth. Toranaga/UFO, yes. Shiro, absolutely not. What this reads like to me is Shiro was one of her more widely
townread
scum
partners, and Titus wanted to give a
scum
partner a superpower, and so chose to
townread
Shiro. Shiro furthered this by going for the clear towncred option of mediumship.
What the interaction regarding the word a lot being used there might indicate is shiro and titus may have planned to push each other on d1 in the
scum
pt, but really didn't follow through with it. I think this may be the case here.
The power of it lies in the fact that the mediumship power gives shiro the ability to continue to look
towny
on the basis of his action alone. Additionally, Shiro was heavily pushing at that awkward angle of frozen angel
scum
last day phase, which at this point just seems like it was an effort trying to distract away from titus
scum
by pinning suspicion on the other leader instead when titus clearly was the
scummier
of the two leaders i would say without any doubt. Moreover, Shiro really pushes at the Sando mislynch wagon, hard-defending Titus in the process. And her
confscum
read, "coming from cerb", on me was probably because i was reading the game decently and trending in a direction that scared shiro!
scum
, so he wanted to see if "cerb" would be enough to get a wagon forming on me with a
confscum
read on me. Further, "SHIRO STILL PUSHES THE ANGLE ON ME BEING
SCUM
BY SAYING, MAYBE WITH FROZEN ANGEL." If this isn't far fetched and a desperate attempt of throwing possibility > probability into play to save a
scum
partner, then i don't know what is. This scum tell is one for one for me with a caught titus now, as i stated randomization of power roles was favoring possibility way too heavily.
Now, that reads as a blatant attempt to desperately promote confusion about the gamestate to me, because i don't know how town could possibly be this far off. And yet encourage another mislynch in sando. That's 3 ml's supported, including fa and i. You'd think Shiro would have
conftown-read
Titus the way he was pushing against it yesterday with "Cerb agreeing." i don't believe this bs at all.
2459 from ank noted.
Nosferatu may yet be
town
. I've still not made a definite conclusion there. I don't think he's clear successor to titus being
scum
now that i have seen titus flip
scum
and reconsidered things. But he may still be
scum
.
Mathblade is clear
town
after titus flip. There's zero need for him ever to make post 2317 against
scum
titus if partners.
Town
vs.
Scum
, clearly.
2309 scum is not
obvtowning
a read of a
scum
partner here--fa--who isn't even really under danger. reads like buddying all the way, here.
sando was framed last day phase, this should be clear now with titus
scum flip
given a); the immediate and early-on somewhat unrelenting push against sando to start the day phase following a fake cop guilty by nos called out by sakura hana, and the continuation of it as counter to titus likely served as a
scum-encouraged
shield to titus, whose flip would be gamebreaking. And B). The last vote ankamius made while alive in this game was on Sando, and I think if Sando AND Titus were
scum
together, then it would be screwing their faction as a whole to make this kill (risks i feel outweigh rewards) and given the overall reluctance to a Titus lynch, I don't think they would want to put another partner under fire as well. Too much turbulence from an ank kill afflicts both Sando and Titus too much for that
scum
team to advocate that kill, given they are both quite experienced. This holds unless you think I am
scum
with Titus and Sando. That's up to you to decide. I have more defending that team not being plausible, but will only defend it if necessary.
That serious push against Sando looks to have a sketchier motive after a Titus
scum
flip. I will go back and look at who pushed against Sando there, or encouraged that push to continue without laying a vote down.
Next, both the amount of stated and unstated resistance to the titus lynch and high number of decently supported counterwagons directly proves that
scum
held the titus chip as a centerpiece that was particularly important to their faction's survival. Which suggests by consequence it has that game-breaking potential.
Now, Toog stated highest confidence
townread
on now
confscum
Titus. And defended it pretty hard. He promised to reread, and I will give him his chance there. Idk how the numbers flip made titus
towniest
though in his impression. But clearly now I proved my impression of the bad
townreads
on Titus and the fact that
scum
very likely picked optimal distancing spots and positioning on the numbers wagon to be true. So, if
town
, toog should be a lot more careful there. The whole body of work of Titus was definitely
scummier
than it was
towny
, to the extent where looking at it and examining the evidence that lead to us lynching her makes it difficult to defend titus as
town
.
And unfortunately i switched off titus lynchwagon to creature for a short time period. I blame lack of sleep (got two hours the night before), and the distracting temptation of a creature pressure wagon. i, however, still wanted titus lynched primarily and would have stayed focused there if i was not either distracted by the creature wagon or if i had gotten more sleep and been able to recognize why exactly i was pushing titus. it seems i dropped everything with that one distraction in an instant, but at least i switched right back realizing my mistake after hebichan (thank you!) questioned me. And also i may have cracked a little to the pressure of having the titus
scumflip
ride entirely on me being correct (some votes sheeped me and i've never felt that kind of pressure before); i felt there was a lot of weight being given to my push and i had some very slight inklings of doubt at various stages. Overall, though i will stand by my creature vote and own it like a man.
Toog's defense of titus was sketchy, though, because it seemed entirely based off quick analysis of numbers lynch wagon. That is the easiest place for a
scum
player to begin analyzing the game, so Toog might be
scum
. And he criticizes my analyzing methods consistently because why? Given I correctly got a
scumflip
d1, maybe drop that today.
Toog completely neglected myloninja
town
wagon. Por que?
Town
wagon reasoning can be more telling IMO than
scum
wagon reasoning, on the surface, unless a player is clearly not
scum
based on sustained interactions that would be clearly
scum
suicide if two players were
scum
together. There was nothing
scum
suicide about titus vs. numbers. In fact, it did not even read natural to me, and my suspicion there has now proven correct. So idk out of all players on the numbers vote wagon, you had the highest confidence on titus being
town
and argued my
scumread
of Titus was "painting picassos", and how you continually stuck up for titus. IDK how you concluded Titus to be
towniest
, but clearly that was faulty.
But right now i think toog is likelier to flip
town
than shiro, but both could be
scum
together imo. Maybe even with creature, or even tw.
Shiro stated
townread
from cerb on toogeloo for something that did not look
town-indicative
to me at all, i remember, which was strange. I don't think anyone else iirc tr toogeloo off that evidence or anything else, which is even stranger. I think if it genuinely came from cerb, people would clearly sense that. But this does not seem real.
I'm feeling a numbers-titus-shiro-creature-toogeloo
scum
team as a real possibility right now. Only after the titus flip did this entire connection make sense to me.
Scum
really didn't want a titus lynch, so i'm thinking (along with some slightly suss interactions with human sequencer and flipped
scum
and creature's growing lurkiness) that
scum
might have helped pile on a
scum
buddy who is MIA last minute in an effort to distract away from and avoid a titus lynch. Titus may have collapsed in the waning hours and self-voted due to another
scum
buddy being the clear counterwagon with only hours left in the day phase. Titus ran as main counterwagon to flipped
scum
in numbers anyway on D1, so why not do that again with 1 less
scumplayer
remaining in the game?
Now another thing that concerns me about shiro is why wouldn't
town
shiro detect and call into question the fact that titus switched from "
scum
" on D1 read of her to "
town
" read to her over literally nothing on D2 (when Titus was leader), and instead assess it as a possible pocketing attempt given how drastic and quickly formed the change was and that there wasn't like any posts or any sort of reasoning provided in the ISO of titus in between to account for the "
town
" read of shiro. And then titus gives a power to shiro? After being
scum read
by titus on D1. Why not at least question the change in her stance, even if her
scum
reasoning was jocular? That is hella sketchy to me. Oh, and ANKAMIUS had shiro in her sketchy section with Titus. Hmm, I wonder why. Shiro could have "confirmed" Ankamius as telling the truth about Titus, especially IF TITUS SURVIVED ANOTHER DAY and Shiro "CLEARED" titus. Clear
scum
gambit to me to
townread
the ever-living hell out of titus as a last-ditch effort to protect against her lynch, using cerb to advance it, and insist on Titus not getting lynched so heavily when instead you should have questioned the blatant discrepancy in reads of Titus between D1 and D2 on you with like no reason or further explanation attributed to it. Way to work a
scum
partner into your PR zone, Titus!
Scum
partner likely took place of ank--who was nk'd--in pr zone. This is an absolute given if shiro is
scum
with titus, as you would not nk someone and give them a power.
Also, only 2 players getting powers--pushing that through cerb is ridiculously short-sighted and not something
town
would advocate like ever. So don't act like he did. FA's reaction to this was
town
as hell, and YOU KNOW IT. And yet you call me out for it because you don't want to admit it. For you to soon after throw out a
confscum
read on me through "Cerb" is so nutso to believe this stance is coming from
town
"Cerb". I would reckon he'd be more cautious with
confscum
reads than that.
I literally did not even have a
confscum
read on Titus myself last day phase nor did anyone ever state a
confscum
read on anyone, so WTF IS "CERB'S" SUPPOSED CONFIDENCE ABOUT? What utter bullshit to try and force a
town
mislynch on me and thus save Titus. You basically had a
conftown
read on Titus, though you didn't explicitly state it, and wouldn't back up what game it was in when i asked you about when Titus had a poor vca as
town
(and some of your meta is hard to understand when i looked into it to try to confirn this myself in that you have played in weird anime games where you posted in but never assumed your actual account here and who was who was never stated anywhere; what a mindfuck). And supposedly cerb remembers this too? My ass; no other player in this game attested to that off memory. You wanted to try and prove Titus was
town
to solidify the chances of your faction making it further into the game by spirit mediuming ank to confirm power. How is this
towny
at all? I can't see the degree of this confidence push coming from
town
here.
937 from numbers looks like a faked reaction to me, and thus would support HS-
scum
, and thus the creature slot being
scum
. That and creature's iso is not that focused on playing
towny
. He didn't even have a vote down at EoD last day phase, so I suggest he is next push after Shiro.
Both flipped
scum
had heavy and consistent regard for zmuffinman
town
. This might mean he is in fact
town
. Titus had stated a
townread
on sakura, who is pretty much
locktown
at this point.
Shiro was also
town
from the reads list of numbers--the other flipped
scum
--without any reasoning ever stated for why. Just simply followed the flow there, after toranaga and others stated shiro was
likely town
d1.
Also shiro blatantly was not getting all that information from cerb at the same time he posted it, as i brought attention to the fact that cerb was not even online, and yet shiro dished out a spamfest of information from him to distract away from a titus lynch. You should read this as utter distraction and not being anything else but that.
VOTE: Shiro, who is a very heavy scumread for me, but i do encourage this day phase to last at least 3-4 days.
TLDR; Shiro is the closest thing to lockscum for me. Nasty associatives with both flipped scum and a blatant spree of lies to save Titus last day phase (Cerb confscum reading me and scumreading Frozen Angel). I don't believe either of those pushes. I am more confident about Shiro being scum than I was about Titus last day phase. I can't see Shiro ever flipping town this game.
We should definitely lynch Shiro today. The scum team of numbers-titus-shiro might include possible additions of Creature, Toogeloo, TW, Kokichi, or Nos (although nos looks a little better to me now), and a few others to varying degrees. But mainly i am thinking creature and toogeloo are the other two that solve this game.
I'm also townblocking all of Frozen Angel, Toranaga, Mathblade, Sakura Hana, Sando, and Stungun. As long as we stick together here, and we continue to townblock cleverly outwards, we're a force to be reckoned with.
The townblock i created includes all 3 of the other players ank townblocked and i agree fully on now, and then sando and sakura added to the pool.
High degree of resistance, both unstated and expressed, to Titus lynchwagon suggests there is quite a bit of town on that wagon, for if scum bussed or lots of them followed on then securing that lynch should have been way easier.
Drixx is looking townish to me now, so maybe future addition to townblock? Idk.
The TLDR TLDR: Shiro is almost positively scum, and we are best off lynching her today.
Another pretty damning point. Shiro has been heavily active, but where the hell was she when we were organizing our votes last day phase. She never committed with us.
I find this to be really odd. I am getting LAMIST pings
Did you make a big case in everyone else or just Shiro?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
I am not voting the dead guy phone messed up the quote.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 6996, stungun0404 wrote:The TLDR TLDR: Shiro is almost positively scum, and we are best off lynching her today.
You mean the person scum shot?
Stun gun posted the theory with the didn’t want to waste the work.
If I am town and I spent overnight casing someone as scum and scum shoot them, I go wtf?
I don’t instantly vote the next person I scumread.
What do you make of this Sakura?
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 7007, MathBlade wrote:I find this to be really odd. I am getting LAMIST pings
Did you make a big case in everyone else or just Shiro?
I find it odd given it really, really wasn't hard to just say "lol Shiro is pretty obvious scum" after that Titus flip. I think that was the entire point of the craziness from Shiro (and what I think they meant by "you won't like it"), but everyone saw it, it didn't need a massive case.
^^ a lot of it is about shiro because his confscum read on me and everything else pointed me toward thinking he was scum. Why are you concerned about it being lamist-y? I very clearly, and if you read the case in depth, lucidly thought shiro was scum. Read the case first, then question it.
I mean, yeah, i thought Shiro was scum too, my post was merely a joke coz it looked like stun didnt notice shiro had died, then i realized there was another page xD
In post 7012, stungun0404 wrote:^^ a lot of it is about shiro because his confscum read on me and everything else pointed me toward thinking he was scum. Why are you concerned about it being lamist-y? I very clearly, and if you read the case in depth, lucidly thought shiro was scum. Read the case first, then question it.
Actually
1) I don’t read things I know to be factually wrong in depth unless I need to refute it or am asked questions about it. Since Shiro is dead and confirmed town I don’t want to clutter my mind with useless stuff.
2) A case like that does nothing of the sort. It shows you took time which is not alignment indicative. Drixx and Cerb do big cases as scum. I hold a record for probably the most time posting straight through as scum. So effort doesn’t prove reads or alignment.
If anything it makes you worse since after seeing your pile of evidence is wrong you didn’t reevaluate. Instead you went for the next most scummiest on your reads.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 6996, stungun0404 wrote:The TLDR TLDR: Shiro is almost positively scum, and we are best off lynching her today.
You mean the person scum shot?
I thought so. I think sando is right that he was trying to be mislynch bait
Fuck. His play might screw me over. That's the probkem
Why are you concerned about his play screwing you individually? *eyebrow raised*
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 7020, stungun0404 wrote:I'm going to reevaluate. The problem is i haven't had the damn time yet. Don't push this on me fifteen minutes after i realize i am wrong
I am pushing you not because you haven’t reevaluated yet, but because you instantly dropped a vote before you did.
I officially hate the Creature wagon. I want nothing to do with it.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 7018, MathBlade wrote:2) A case like that does nothing of the sort. It shows you took time which is not alignment indicative.
Yes it is, it's scum indicative, although pretty low in a game this size and type. People often won't take the time to put that sort of case together overnight because decent chance they die and the effort is pointless, or that their target is going to be dead.
Creature's probably scum tho.
His meta points to Creature scum, and me saying that Titus was busing Creature and she invoking her meta leads me to think that was her intention.
