SUPP 2017 MAFIA: COMPLETE

[DeasVail]

(I targeted Nahdia who became Shepard N1. What made you think I did not send a cat N1)

(Also what do you mean by type of cat?)

[DeasVail]

Also for clarification (and in fairness to EP), I did receive a PM from EP informing me of what Krazy did to me at the end of N3. However, I forgot about everything except the joint vote part, which was bad of me and I apologise.

[the worst]

No wait, Chara shot Maria N1, so N2 I would have received it, N3 I would not.

K nvm

wait.... when did Maria use her cop shot?

[DeasVail]

N1 I believe

[the worst]

oh the RB is delayed right

fuck my brain hurt for a moment v.v

[DeasVail]

yeah, I also got told (at the end of N3) that I would not be able to use any actions N4, but I forgot about it. D:

[the worst]

that's ok there is no cat

[DeasVail]

I also don't know who is scum

[Krazy]

Oh, so Chara got super lucky then, since Maria would not have been able to use her ability that night anyway. The delayed roleblock from Chara stacked with the delayed self-roleblock from getting the cop result. Dope.

@DV, I forgot about your Nahdia bit, I was looking at the more recent summary of your night actions.

I only mention it because I received a black cat. A very stupid and minor pet theory was that the town roles tended to be more cute and the scum roles tended to be more brawny or

spooky

. So while cats are cute, maybe black cats are spooky and would fit the scum aesthetic better. But I was mostly trying to get a better sense of whether you actually got to choose different cats for different people, since if different people were receiving different cats maybe that indicated you were not actually just a cat vendor.

I guess DV has been cat vending each night then, in which case Guac is the one whose night actions just make no sense to me whatsoever.

[the worst]

I'm a little thrown as to why guac is lying about his action last night though....

[DeasVail]

My PM doesn't mention anything about a black cat, and no I don't choose anything other than the target. As far as I'm aware each of my targets should be receiving the same message.

Also, the worst, I'd like to ask you a bit more about your Shoshin read. In going back through various points of the game she is starting to become a stronger suspect for me at the moment. I found her reaction to Fire Assassin's "cop guilty" came across as a bit stilted and calculated, rather than a natural reaction, in a similar way to her reaction to receiving a cat, as I've expressed here.

I can see reasons to view her as town, such as the effort into solving the game, and the towncasing of herself, but I could also see these things coming from scum trying hard to win. Her approach to me has also come across as strange in that it seems potentially agenda-driven. Prior to 2751 there almost seemed to be a "buddying" agenda, and then since then it's been a "suspect DV" agenda. What makes me think this is largely the differing extremes in how she has interacted with me over the course of the game.

As I'm typing this I'm sort of losing my suspicion, but if there's anything in the above that could be resolved with some knowledge about her town/scum play that would be super helpful.

[DeasVail]

If I had to pick someone to kill, it would probably be guac, but there may be benefit in letting guac be vigged?

[DeasVail]

And this wouldn't be for any particularly scummy reason. More that the idea of lynching anyone else is a bit uncomfortable to me.

[the worst]

I don't have as much experience with her scumgame but honestly her treatment of your slot and predisposition towards suspicion of everything is very easy to attribute to her towngame.

for contest in the aforementioned game where I townread her in LyLo, (#heromoment) I gladiated someone who turned out to be the mafia traitor to duck her mislynch during a huge TvT fight then once things quietened down explained why she was more likely to be town. her reaction was to point out that I could still easily be scum and demanded that I explained how I was town--like a lot of players would consider me spewed town by the action alone but she was absolutely tenacious.

there's some other stuff which I'm not super at liberty to talk about right now but depending on how the cards fall we mighttttt be able to talk about it before the end of the phase


like I know there's scummy pings from how overinquisitive and sometimes over dramatic her pushes/questions can be but I think it's more like she's town questioning the situation from every possible angle even if it's like 80% likely rather than scum trying to stir shit up?

I hope this kinda explains where I'm swinging with her rn. ngl I'm kinda in the process of convincing myself and it's actually surprising me how comfortable I'm feeling towncasing her in a vacuum

[Krazy]

Can everyone remind me why Espeonage is a TR?

Looking back at his day one, I can see a MASSIVE INCENTIVE for him to have been scum and played that the way he did.

A) He spent an unusually large part of the day saying how scummy FA was, ignoring a large chunk of the other players, which would make sense since he KNOWS there is a chance Dunn just straight up kills him and that his flip would probably make FA look like an intended mislynch (if Esp is scum)
B) He basically spends the whole day hard buddying Dunn with the weird confusion over the roles, which makes sense since he needs him to not kill him if the bet goes for Dunn

I strongly dislike going over my graveyard sheeping of Dunn on one of his stronger TRs, but Espeonage's role just seems weird in relation to Dunns. Why would Dunn be able to vanillaize what is already a VT after d1? Not even a neighborhood?

Tomorrow I'm going to reread the thread, but if anyone wants to explain why Espeonage is obvtown that would help.

[DeasVail]

Thanks for your answer the worst.

Also re: Espeonage, from his own play I think he's scummy, but Fire Assassin was very close to getting him lynched.

[Krazy]

Well yeah they had already committed to cross-bus because Espeonage had a 15% higher mortality rate than any other scum slot, if so. I mean Dunn's role was real and they knew it. So the #1 priority for Espeonage D1 would be cross-bussing imo. This whole game mode highly incentivizes early game cross-bussing.

Like is Espeonage known for having dope-ass reads and singling out a scum on d1? Or have some other meta grudge against FA? Cause that seems super targeted at a glance.

But yeah, rereading tomorrow.

[the worst]

I have an opinion here but also been busy and drinking rn

this is an IOU an espe brainvomit

[DeasVail]

Well yeah they had already committed to cross-bus because Espeonage had a 15% higher mortality rate than any other scum slot, if so. I mean Dunn's role was real and they knew it. So the #1 priority for Espeonage D1 would be cross-bussing imo. This whole game mode highly incentivizes early game cross-bussing.

Like is Espeonage known for having dope-ass reads and singling out a scum on d1? Or have some other meta grudge against FA? Cause that seems super targeted at a glance.

But yeah, rereading tomorrow.

I’m not vehemently disagreeing or anything.

I just have a lot of trouble reading the FA situation because it seems like a bad idea to claim a cop guilty on a buddy and almost get them lynched, in a situation where FA being kept alive after an Espe-lynch probably would have been suspicious enough to get him lynched too. But then i think it was also just a bad idea to claim how he did if Espe is town too. So I’m mostly just confused there.

[guacamole]

I find it weird that two every-night visitors would both skip N1, and that Guac would skip both N1 and N4. I just don't see how a town-aligned connector doesn't use his ability every night. And I have 0 clues as to why a town-aligned DV would not send a cat N1. In what world does a cat fruit vendor not vend cat fruit N1?

I haven't said who screen targeted N1, but screen did target. Screen's targets were Taly and the Worst. Other people have already said this so I didn't think it was necessary to repeat it.

Not sending something N4 was more a function of RL interference than it was actively trying to not send.

[guacamole]

I'm a little thrown as to why guac is lying about his action last night though....

Absolutely not lying here. I did not send a PM of any kind to this mod since before the start of D4 when I asked if everything was OK.
I don't know where this connection could have come from. Based on that I wonder if remaining scum have a role stealing ability, or the ability to send a fake connection message.

[Espeonage]

This is a promise to contribute tomorrow.

[Krazy]

Going through some rereading. I'm going to do some wall-ish posts mostly for my own notes. Sorry if they are cluttering the thread. I'll spoiler.

Spoiler:

For the record, I highly suggest we do not claim the scummer our role is based off of. Set-ups in this style often have things that operate based on role identities.

I do kind of wonder whether the worst's fake flavor cop grab had a mechanical incentive.

Town-
The Worst
Chara
Shis

In normal day 1 Krazy logic, I would say scum doing a list of three like this means all three are town. But this is large theme. Esp's suspicion of FA seems based on this post/list.

Hi, this is a thing.

For my role, I need Fire Assassin to be rated highly today

It occurs to me that it would be fucking weird for Espeonage to have a day one objective be to have his ally rated lowly, but weird seems like the exact kind of thing this setup is going for so idk maybe it's NAI.

Also, my late night thoughts last night... OF COURSE ESP is focused on FA, because FA is the focus of his BET.

This bet nonsense makes day 1 practically unreadable. OK great.

End of page 11 and I slightly want to go back to the worst for today's lynch.

***

Holy shit Taly is the most obvtown that ever obvtowned.

[DeasVail]

Yeah Taly was pretty obvtown. May his soul Rest In Peace <3

[Krazy]

Through the 20s and I can see why Chara ranked Screenplay lowest. I am way okay with Guac's slot dying either by lynch or shooting, so if Pun won't confirm he'll shoot we might want to just lynch it.

I'm still thinking about Espeonage's slot. If you're designing a large theme, do you design a the bet to give two otherwise VTs something to do? Or do you design it as a 4D chess challenge for a mafia goon, to try to get their buddy voted lowly, but not SO lowly that they get killed N1 during ranking elimination? I'm inclined to read the role as NAI, and if we are going by play Esp has been pretty active-lurky.

Going back and forth between the worst and Espeonage. I forgot that Chara actually ranked Espeonage below DV, so if I am sheeping Chara rather than Dunn Espeonage might actually be the better lynch for today.

But the worst's fake rolecop bullshit still has me so suspicious because now I'm really worried he had a mechanical reason for wanting to do that.

Probably gonna take a break before I tackle the 30s and on again. Sorry that I'm doing stream of consciousness rather than big conclusive posts but posts like this really help me get my thoughts straight.