Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Nancy Drew 39]

[quote="In post 8343
Poor Math. XD

they're fine. but the way they're seeing the game and the stuff they're pushing is pretty unlikely to be good reads.

math sees the game too mechanically. toogeloo started a counterwagon to a wolf he was townreading, and that mistake is the basis for the whole scumread. he is also conditionally clearing creature for nothing creature did, but rather because titus pushed and voted him when he was the only available counterwagon.

that creature is up the neck on his scum meta is irrelevant for math, but it should not be irrelevant to us.

just go read creature's ISO. it's empty. this can't live because of whatever math thinks.

the biggest beef i have with toog’s play is i sense an utter contrast to his townplay in a recent game i was in, where i was easily able to townread when i was scum hunting for other scum. that easiness has not translated at all into this game, and that concerns me re: his alignment. if anything, he seems a lot scummier to me

why wouldn’t town toog be interested in reevaluating the game after being dead-wrong on scum!titus and promising to do so if titus flipped scum? i would be interested in completely reevaluating in the instance a town titus flip happened. so i don’t understand how his interest just dwelled like that. and how he had a townlean on fa with titus there yesterday, and now suddenly fa is gut scum after a titus flip? seems non-sequitur to me.[/quote]

He did in fact promise to read the game if his Titus read was wrong.

[stungun0404]

@tw, @gamma where are all of your town stances right now?

because for as much as you guys are complaining about my town stances, i have taken 9 as of this day phase and last that apply right now:
locktown: fa
near locktown: sando, sakura hana, mathblade
heavy duty town: toranaga
heavy townlean: drixx, nancydrew39
likely town: nosferatu, theta alpine —> both of these derived from a quick vca lookover.

so if you think i’m not taking enough stances, then help me out here sorting the other players!

Okay this is my thinking on which slot I feel are solidly town
townblock: Drixx, Frozen Angel, MathBlade, Sakura Hana, Nancy Drew 39 (I forgot the sixth person)
townreads: Creature, Toranaga, Sando
townreads conditional on Toog scumflip: Theta Alpine, Nero Cain
thank you for bringing this up again stun

no problem, but


@ i forgot the sixth person, can’t you just decipher that from the player list?

explain townread of creature. you were scumreading both hs and creature when i asked you about the slot yesterday. what has changed there?

how is either of theta alpine or nero cain town-spewed with toog scumflip?

i don’t understand how you are gathering some of these reads; the progressions seem slightly strange—and the same thing seems to be the basis of why you are not townreading me right now. not necessarily scummy, just strange with a hint of hypocrisy.

and what made you personally townread drixx? or nancydrew?

[Nero Cain]

talking about Toog is a moot point b/c we are flipping him anyways.

[stungun0404]

it’s kinda curious when you scumread creature last day phase but townread him now, but you townread me over my post on creature but i am nowhere in your town pool today

and then you go and get on me for stance inconsistency

[Nancy Drew 39]

quotes are broken so I'm not quoting this from you nancy, but as I said: I'm townreading your word salad so go focus on something else. you phrased things very poorly wrt toogaloo and should be looked at anyway if he flips town.

Why should I care if YOU’RE townreading me now? I’m far from convinced you haven’t been playing me this whole game. it really meant a lot to me when you said you voted me leader and for you to scumread that post of mine, how am I not supposed to be ubersuspicious of you for that?

I really really want to believe that it was just a bad read but my town faith in you has been badly shaken by thzt.

why don't you read my ISO then? I see you OMGUSing shading me because god forbid anyone actually thinks anything you did is wolfy, but what about you take a step back from it and read how I've been playing the game from d1?

you've been bugging me to do it for you so why don't we both, then?

No, I was suspicious of you because you scumread a post of mine where you were completely misunderstanding my meaning and when I kept trying to explain to you why that read was incorrect, all you kept saying was that I should die if Toog flips green. Why would I not be upset about that?

I was hardtown reading before that and defending you to Math. Did you happen to read my post about you confirming your Drixx read by mimicking someone else tonight but not making yourself a potential NK target by pulling a Shiro and actually claiming to do it in the thread?

I also wanted you to be leader over Math/Drixx.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I've townread your emotions very hard by the end of d1 and, while I was pretty certain ankamius was always town, I felt those emotions were characteristic of what I remember from you, and felt you were locktown so I voted you there

it wasn't personal, alright? I know it meant something for you but I'd never hold a personal grudge in a game. I'll make anyone leader if I'm certain they're town and not screwing things up with their actions.

do you understand how annoying it is that I have to read you say I hate you so much I'm toying with your emotions? it's not something anyone should have to deal with. I could never save face and act properly here if I was actually scum trying to mislynch you, cause you're making this very personal. stop doing this to me. it sucks.

Spoiler:

Alright. Confession: I’m really hurt about you cutting off our friendship so abruptly. It really did mean a lot to me. I would continue to say this, whether you townread me, scumread me, lynch me or NK/vig me, etc. I think we had a huge misunderstanding regarding that team hydra mafia game and you won’t even talk to me about it.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I wouldnt mind you suiciding either stungun

but I think theta who volunteered should do it

Why do you want Stun to suicide?

cerb had this 100% wolf read on stun and I think that's biting him in the ass at some point

I'm fairly convinced he is town

I also think theta is town and want her to have the sui

Is this before or after medium? because Stun replaced in after Cerh died.

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah that's stretchy reasoning wrt katsuki, gamma

not sure those are genuine thoughts you had on katsuki

looks bad

scumread me at will

pedit: you were looking for titus to say "d1 sucks" as an explanation for her awful posting wrt stuff that isn't explained away by the fact that she thinks d1 sucks.

THAT MAKES NO FUCKING SENSE WRT TITIS D1 SUCKS STUFF

Why are you so shocked that Toranga would post something like this? I think Math could possibly be right.

I mean after you quoted it it made more sense but Tor was making such an awful conclusion it was hurting my brain

[stungun0404]

and yeah he tried his best to make us feel bad about lynching titus without adding anything valuable in defense of her. I was rereading those posts yesterday.

how does any of that making any sense to you as genuine content?

while directing attention to my analysis methods, which correctly tunneled scum. why wouldn’t town toog just focus on hunting scum, and not on criticizing my analysis processes upon replacing-in? what town motive is there to that laserbeam focus upon the other replace-in?

@toranaga, re: 8357: it is scum-indicative because he did not look for a townleader to lead town (which you should read the mechanics before picking anyway as town), unlike my slot which voted ankamius who i felt was pretty much guaranteed to be town after iso’ing brassherald and ank. idc if i am beating a dead horse rn, but i am just making my point here.

8358: yeah but town!toog replaces in, acknowledges the evidence we have against titus, and defends her anyway. no, i am not seeing this being genuine. especially when the interactions between titus and numbers were nai and if anything looked disingenuous to me.

i mean, i feel the difference between how myself and toog went about picking leaders upon replacing in is the difference between town and scum replacing in for slots.

i think toog’s motivation would be higher as town than scum here.

8371: except numbers was counterwagon to titus d1, and there were already multiple votes on creature, so i really do not think we can town spew him directly from titus. you guys should trust me on this because i was right about titus not being town spewed from numbers last day phase, in spite of titus still getting
defended by toog as being town and not scum. creature is definitely not clear town. don’t make that mistaken assumption.

@toranaga: what is unreasonable is how part of his decision for voting nos was based off avoiding a town mislynch wagon but voting out titus. scum would do that any day of the week if they could. next, he notes the town mislynch wagon, but later on supposedly does not know myloninja was dead when he was that town mislynch wagon? i choose not to believe this!

[Gamma Emerald]

are you doing work in the game or just coming here to defend yourself?

what do you think of nancy?

I'd like to comment on other things but when everyone in the game seems to just toss me into the scumpile I get a little upset
As for Nancy, outside of being in the townblock I don't find her too exceptional. I'm with math in that she's probably the first of the townblock that would be going if there's scum there.

Since when is Math an expert on me? This is only our second game together. I do know how much Math hates mislynches based on Labrynh.

That's not what I meant but w/e

[Nancy Drew 39]

talking about Toog is a moot point b/c we are flipping him anyways.

Does anyone know the VC? One thing is abundantly clear. Toog wants out of this game.

[stungun0404]

*saw that town mislynch wagon

[Gamma Emerald]

Who is UFO?

Toranaga

[Gamma Emerald]

I also don't wolfread mathblade but you have to not know mathblade if you don't think they'd flat out hardcore bus titus as soon as they subbed in

if anyone is interested, read mastina's mod is mafia to just how hard mathblade can hard push titus as w/w

yeah no mathblade doesn't autobus Titus just cos, I was in giFpick where both of them were scum and they were very amicable, and there is a very clear rule-of-thumb that honestly I kinda forgot until I thought of that game, which is Math/titus of opposite alignments will get into a fight.

[Nancy Drew 39]

One of strengths as town is my gut. I have a degree in child psychology, and that may help a bit as well, but I feel like I have some really decent instincts.

One of my weaknesses is that I'm fairly uncharismatic and leading lynches isn't really my forte lol.

also, from a recent pt where toog said he has really a good gut instinct as town

so for me to believe toog is town here, he has to a). have been horribly off-the-mark regarding titus b). have gone back on a town gut lean on FA after titus scum flip which spewed fa as town, and c). believe to toog to be completely uninterested in scumhunting this game.

easier solution: toog is scum.

yeah that seems wise

VOTE: toogeloo

his posting in real time is awful too ok

I'm down to do it

Well if you’re voting him, I think we put him out of his misery. Any objections?

[Gamma Emerald]

@tw, @gamma where are all of your town stances right now?

because for as much as you guys are complaining about my town stances, i have taken 9 as of this day phase and last that apply right now:
locktown: fa
near locktown: sando, sakura hana, mathblade
heavy duty town: toranaga
heavy townlean: drixx, nancydrew39
likely town: nosferatu, theta alpine —> both of these derived from a quick vca lookover.

so if you think i’m not taking enough stances, then help me out here sorting the other players!

Okay this is my thinking on which slot I feel are solidly town
townblock: Drixx, Frozen Angel, MathBlade, Sakura Hana, Nancy Drew 39 (I forgot the sixth person)
townreads: Creature, Toranaga, Sando
townreads conditional on Toog scumflip: Theta Alpine, Nero Cain
thank you for bringing this up again stun

no problem, but


@ i forgot the sixth person, can’t you just decipher that from the player list?

I used to playerlist to make my list.

explain townread of creature. you were scumreading both hs and creature when i asked you about the slot yesterday. what has changed there?

Neither read was a hard scumread, and the way the end of Day 3 happened, no way is Creature scum with Titus.

how is either of theta alpine or nero cain town-spewed with toog scumflip?

You weren't around when I commented on this, but BBmolla started going after katsuki and muffins when I felt those two were starting to contribute, so I felt like that was an opportunistic scum push. As such Toog scum makes Theta and Nero town imo since those are the ones who replaced into those slots.

i don’t understand how you are gathering some of these reads; the progressions seem slightly strange—and the same thing seems to be the basis of why you are not townreading me right now. not necessarily scummy, just strange with a hint of hypocrisy.

Idrk why I should townread you? You're being active which is nice, but I also feel like some of your behavior could be scummy. As such I don't have a comfortable townread on you, which is what I listed in that line.

and what made you personally townread drixx? or nancydrew?

You are aware that says townblock right? That means regardless of my read I'm townbinning them because the general consensus, which I actually trust right now, townreads them.

[Sakura Hana]

None here but.
I think Nero may have an objection to Drixx being a leader candidate, i was hoping we'd get that sorted out among

everyone

, if you think everyone should vote me go ahead, i am 100% SSing an impenetrable skin tonight, if i die anyways, then i hope you can figure out what happened.

[Nero Cain]

I don't think anyone should want Drixx as leader....

[Sakura Hana]

Here's the issue, tomorrow petrify is on the list, who is leader is extremely important and i bet scum is going to be all over wanting that sweet sweet petrify specially if scum has sneaked in the townbloc.
Everyone voting me, would solve that issue, BUT, if scum has ways of dealing with me then im dead and we get potentially a scum leader.
I am not gambiting to try to avoid getting killed, i am 100% doing as i stated so if i die, there's 3 options.

A) Scum was in tonight's list and got SS too.
B) Math didnt actually give me a power and so i couldnt SS.
C) Scum has a way of bypassing impenetrable skin on their own.

[Nero Cain]

What does the leader do?

[Nancy Drew 39]

None here but.
I think Nero may have an objection to Drixx being a leader candidate, i was hoping we'd get that sorted out among

everyone

, if you think everyone should vote me go ahead, i am 100% SSing an impenetrable skin tonight, if i die anyways, then i hope you can figure out what happened.

I asked for a vc last night and again today. I dunno. I don’t think there’s full consensus on a backup leader. I honestly think that as long as you arm yourself with SS bp and everyone is instructed to vote you. I don’t see what could possibly go wrong.

My concern with splitting up the votes is that Drixx becomes leader over you, due to the same kind of complacency that got Math elected over you except I would be far more suspicious of scum having a hand in it because
Math was a much stronger townread than Drixx.

So, I agree. You hardcore protect yourself tonight and

EVERYONE agrees to vote you. - No SPLITTING of the votes this time. EVERYONE VOTE SAKURA.

[Sakura Hana]

What does the leader do?

For one, the leader is unlynchable and unkillable that day/night cycle (unless day ends in no lynch, then leader loses protection for the night)
the leader also chooses which players can get a super power that night phase.
Super powers can be obtained and activated on the same night they are aquired and multiple people can choose the same super power.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Here's the issue, tomorrow petrify is on the list, who is leader is extremely important and i bet scum is going to be all over wanting that sweet sweet petrify specially if scum has sneaked in the townbloc.
Everyone voting me, would solve that issue, BUT, if scum has ways of dealing with me then im dead and we get potentially a scum leader.
I am not gambiting to try to avoid getting killed, i am 100% doing as i stated so if i die, there's 3 options.

A) Scum was in tonight's list and got SS too.
B) Math didnt actually give me a power and so i couldnt SS.
C) Scum has a way of bypassing impenetrable skin on their own.

I like this plan.

+1

[Sakura Hana]

My only worry is that scum somehow manages to kill me by either of those 3 things and we get a scum leader again.

[Nero Cain]

Have you played with Drixx before and how familiar are you with his meta? Do you read his play as being specifically wolfy here or does he come accross as a wolfy player in general?

You are trying really hard to discredit my case huh?

No, why would I do that? Since when is asking questions, considered to be “discrediting”?

I don't feel like either of those questions are very relevant and they seem pretty pointed. Like does my experience with Drixx and/or knowing his meta really matter? I can't identify scum play unless I have the necessary experience or knowledge of meta? Your other question about whether or not I always find Drixx scummy doesn't seem to serve any purpose other than "Yes, I always find Drixx scummy." "Ok well, this is just conf bias then." But like, we've already kinda talked about this...like in our whole tw games where we were both town I scum read him for being a lurksack and then in the other game I hard scumread the House head. You'd know this if you read. Like really, the links to this exact argument are there. You seem to be sniping from the sidelines and not really dealing with the specifics of the case and it smells like inside information.

Drixx's early stink eyes @ everyone that was pushing for Titus and Toogs defending Titus don't seem all that dissimilar to me. If Toog is scum for defending Titus why isn't Drixx scum for chainsaw attacking all Titus' early enemies?

Like town playing poorly is a thing and its more than possible that that's whats happening here but I feel like my reasoning to suspect him are pretty valid.