Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Drixx]

@Nero - Dude. Snark and rhetoric are

NOT

the same thing as abuse. Everyone who knows Titus (and Mathblade for that matter) knows how to wind them up personally. That's abuse. Me being tongue in cheek is NOT abuse.

Every single "point" in your case against me as a bunch of NAI shit. Obviously if I were scum, I did and would do those things. I didn't even try to say otherwise.

So if you have a bunch of stuff that is literally (by your own definition) WiFoM, then you look at the overall picture. In what world do I even at all go along with doing anything to try and help Titus after day one if I'm scum with her? You know (or should know) how ruthlessly I will cut bait on a scum partner who screws up and is an inevitable lynch. You've just spent an inordinate amount of time pointing out that I did none of the things I would normally do as scum with a doomed teammate. Like ... 1+1 is not hard man.

Drop the tunnel goggles if you're town. You're wasting a lot of effort to no good end. If you are as good as you think, I dropped a pretty strong town tell quite awhile back. I'm certain at least two people caught it. If I count Math who was already sure before I did it, then that would be three ... but I'm not sure Math was actually bothering to look at that point.


@math: you're missing a huge problem in terms of being able to determine if any scum make it into the team. You're assuming that you can isolate them in a way that you can't. I really don't want to say more and I shouldn't have even said this I don't think. -- You did catch the math problem though which is good. I'm pretty sure that we lose a little EV with the suicide vest plan, with the upside obviously being a faster win.

So ... do we want to play mafia and leverage a strong position to maintain a near 100% EWR or do we want to gamble a significant amount of that to try and win sooner? I mean ... I've not had to work as hard this game to get to this state. You and a couple others have done the heavy lifting. What I

can

tell you from past experience where Cerb and I solve the game and we tell the game exactly what's going on and we have it set up for a win and then people do dumb shit and we lose ... that is crazy frustrating and has gotten super old. I highly do NOT recommend it.

All it would take is for one of the scums to have played a strong game so far and be in a super trusted spot and using 2-3 suicide vest takes out 4-6 townies. That takes away 2-3 cycles where they have to keep playing a really strong game. In this case I really feel like time is an ally. It's really hard to be scum but keep up a realistic narrative that you are town for real time months on end. Believe me because I have done it before a few times and it takes a toll. (Smite and SU2 are the games that come immediately to mind where I played alone as last scum for months in real time; I enjoyed both games but needed to recharge mentally after each one).

You know me well enough to know that I have very strong reasons behind what I'm saying. If there were some way for us to freaking neighborize I would really love to do an unfiltered thought dump right about now.

[MathBlade]

I skimmed torgana and I think they are nearly always town here

I don’t know about that. UFO was giving me some weird vibes especially with power choices.

However I think Drixx is town independent of that.

[Frozen Angel]

I also reread the last page of titus iso and now I think it could be distancing. Like titus was thinking: if they end up lynching me this guy might get a chance because of this and if they actually lynch them I get a bit of cred.

plus people were not going anywhere else so it was her only opening. I can't see any refrence to creature before that or am I missing anything?

[stungun0404]

Just for the record: Titus did not put me on the team or give me powers or anything. I think a town!Titus would have given me a power choice 99 times out of a 100 given the game state at end of day and the very high likelihood that she gets roped today. Especially with Cerb already dead. I also would have expected a scum!Titus to do so as well and try and convince me she's town and to help her avoid getting roped; however, I can also see scum!Titus trying to play at level 2 and take advantage of that expectation by not throwing me a power.

This is actually a pretty good look for drixx tbh

why would scum titus not give scum drixx power or to give him that secretly which would look bad for her. I can't see drixx and titus being a pair

drixx is ALSO confirmed through Toranaga to have used bulletproof last night

I do not see scum making much headway choosing bulletproof, unless they are being super cautious.

[MathBlade]

Tinfoil hat theory Drixx scum uses phasing that night but waaay too tinfoily

Gtg

[MathBlade]

Unless my memory sucks and Drixx didn’t get powers from FA

[stungun0404]

Sorry for bringing up old stuff and sorry if I'm repeating others I haven't read most of today

I guess I need to go diving on Titus now. I could see her doing this as scum and turning the WiFoM to her favor. I could also see several players in this list who would know putting Titus as leader right now would introduce a ton of confusion. And it has.

I think claims of who you voted for should stop and someone super trusted (FA seems like the best choice) to make an ordered list and have folks claim. There are a few good reasons to do this and the less said about them before we do it the better.

drixx how did you proceed from this post to #2136 (attacking the people who were pushing titus or baiting her as you mentioned)?

Already addressed but perhaps I wasn't clear.

I can scum read someone and literally say that they are essentially lockscum and need to eat rope. I can,

at the same time

, view that person as a friend and even jump into the fray if that person is being personally abused. It's not mutually exclusive.

One thing is solving the game. The other is trying to reign in the incivility which has been slowly building over the years on this site.

So you're saying you had titus as a scum read then?

everybody is saying that they had titus as lockscum read, it’s kinda ridiculous


even kokichi...

but where were they when i had to defuse that sando town wagon to get some votes on titus? they were not on that wagon and this is proveable


so mathblade and i are the only ones that can truly claim having a confident scum read on titus given that 3/4 of the discrediting on titus last day phase was literally came from the 2 of us. and i in particular was the one that was anti-sando wagon...

and yet kokichi bothers to votepark on me today? smh

[Frozen Angel]

Unless my memory sucks and Drixx didn’t get powers from FA

he didn't get powers from me n1 when phasing was available
he could get powers night 3

[Frozen Angel]

I beleive I was one of the people who made titus lynch certain day 3 and I demand my share of credit for it xd

[stungun0404]

I beleive I was one of the people who made titus lynch certain day 3 and I demand my share of credit for it xd

you joined the lynchwagon with your only vote, you have valid credits

drixx did not vote

kokichi absolutely has no credits here, after voting ONLY sando and katsuki last day phase. and yet she lockscummed titus? smh even more @ that

and i am confident sando is town here, kokichi also voted katsuki/now nero cain’s slot with his other vote and i am thinking that is likely town here

then kokichi only votes me today solely because i flip flopped stances on him. and i know i am town

so exactly what position is kokichi speaking from here? seriously off-the-mark town that does not care? or scum?

because he sure can’t claim to have lockscummed titus, and he is voting one of the players that was the most adamant about the titus lynch yesterday. on what planet do these calculations make sense to town kokichi?

[stungun0404]

it sure is interesting kokichi voted numbers d1 with no reason attached

but was part of the unstated resistance in voting titus yesterday by not voting her, even though titus was “lockscum” to him

if titus was “lockscum”, tell me why kokichi never voted titus last day phase thus helping us? and was active on other wagons?

[MathBlade]

Unless my memory sucks and Drixx didn’t get powers from FA

he didn't get powers from me n1 when phasing was available
he could get powers night 3

Then Drixx is confirmed with BP.

[Sakura Hana]

I also reread the last page of titus iso and now I think it could be distancing. Like titus was thinking: if they end up lynching me this guy might get a chance because of this and if they actually lynch them I get a bit of cred.

plus people were not going anywhere else so it was her only opening. I can't see any refrence to creature before that or am I missing anything?

YES!
This is exactly what I've been saying.

[MathBlade]

I also reread the last page of titus iso and now I think it could be distancing. Like titus was thinking: if they end up lynching me this guy might get a chance because of this and if they actually lynch them I get a bit of cred.

plus people were not going anywhere else so it was her only opening. I can't see any refrence to creature before that or am I missing anything?

YES!
This is exactly what I've been saying.

Omfg that is my point exactly.

Titus scum doesn’t put a neon sign on a buddy after two buddies go down. She is not a stupid scums like I do not see this as any sort of distancing. And if Titus was stupid we win anyway.

[MathBlade]

I also reread the last page of titus iso and now I think it could be distancing. Like titus was thinking: if they end up lynching me this guy might get a chance because of this and if they actually lynch them I get a bit of cred.

plus people were not going anywhere else so it was her only opening. I can't see any refrence to creature before that or am I missing anything?

YES!
This is exactly what I've been saying.

Omfg that is my point exactly.

Titus scum doesn’t put a neon sign on a buddy after two buddies go down. She is not a stupid scums like I do not see this as any sort of distancing. And if Titus was stupid we win anyway.

Correction two scum* her and 123456789

[Sakura Hana]

The day ends in (expired on 2018-08-11 21:00:00)

Quoting this for convenience.

[MathBlade]

@Nero - Dude. Snark and rhetoric are

NOT

the same thing as abuse. Everyone who knows Titus (and Mathblade for that matter) knows how to wind them up personally. That's abuse. Me being tongue in cheek is NOT abuse.

Every single "point" in your case against me as a bunch of NAI shit. Obviously if I were scum, I did and would do those things. I didn't even try to say otherwise.

So if you have a bunch of stuff that is literally (by your own definition) WiFoM, then you look at the overall picture. In what world do I even at all go along with doing anything to try and help Titus after day one if I'm scum with her? You know (or should know) how ruthlessly I will cut bait on a scum partner who screws up and is an inevitable lynch. You've just spent an inordinate amount of time pointing out that I did none of the things I would normally do as scum with a doomed teammate. Like ... 1+1 is not hard man.

Drop the tunnel goggles if you're town. You're wasting a lot of effort to no good end. If you are as good as you think, I dropped a pretty strong town tell quite awhile back. I'm certain at least two people caught it. If I count Math who was already sure before I did it, then that would be three ... but I'm not sure Math was actually bothering to look at that point.


@math: you're missing a huge problem in terms of being able to determine if any scum make it into the team. You're assuming that you can isolate them in a way that you can't. I really don't want to say more and I shouldn't have even said this I don't think. -- You did catch the math problem though which is good. I'm pretty sure that we lose a little EV with the suicide vest plan, with the upside obviously being a faster win.

So ... do we want to play mafia and leverage a strong position to maintain a near 100% EWR or do we want to gamble a significant amount of that to try and win sooner? I mean ... I've not had to work as hard this game to get to this state. You and a couple others have done the heavy lifting. What I

can

tell you from past experience where Cerb and I solve the game and we tell the game exactly what's going on and we have it set up for a win and then people do dumb shit and we lose ... that is crazy frustrating and has gotten super old. I highly do NOT recommend it.

All it would take is for one of the scums to have played a strong game so far and be in a super trusted spot and using 2-3 suicide vest takes out 4-6 townies. That takes away 2-3 cycles where they have to keep playing a really strong game. In this case I really feel like time is an ally. It's really hard to be scum but keep up a realistic narrative that you are town for real time months on end. Believe me because I have done it before a few times and it takes a toll. (Smite and SU2 are the games that come immediately to mind where I played alone as last scum for months in real time; I enjoyed both games but needed to recharge mentally after each one).

You know me well enough to know that I have very strong reasons behind what I'm saying. If there were some way for us to freaking neighborize I would really love to do an unfiltered thought dump right about now.

@Drixx
First I really wasn’t looking for any sort of tells. If I happen to find them (like in regards to Nancy and what power she took) then I note it and move on. I have been focusing on now having town self implode. Between that and work and everything else this has been an insane game. Secondly dropping a town/trust tell (e.g. something you only do reliably as town and not as scum) intentionally and then not replicating it (or trying) in scum games is either illegal or angle shooting so I don’t want to discuss the “tells” angle.

Secondly yes I can be wound up. However calling it ABUSE is a bit of a stretch. I have gotten a lot thicker skin since taking some mediciation to help bring my hormones in equilibrium. I know people who are actual abuse victims and I hate the characterization. I understand your point and would say “low blow” or something similar.

In regards to your maintain a near 100% winrate comment, that is simply wine. Let me explain how.
Assume that we don’t do the suicide plan and you FA and Sakura are scum. (Again I do not believe this)
Then all three of you pick up petrify and track people without powers. Then after one/two/three mislynches whatever the required townies is mass petrification happens and you hit me and some other townie with powers.

At that similar point there is no way we then go for the townblock before that point.
What suicide bomber does is gives us control over the clock.

We have to make a decision whether we trust the town block. We are at 14 town 3 scum. If Toog is town and NK successful (which in 3 townblock would be) we are at 12. The next day. Mislynch is 11. If there are three scum in the town block we are already fucked if we play traditionally based on the numbers.

The suicide bomb is only risky if we hit three scum exactly with the bombs but in that case they are outed.

Playing conservative or traditionally we are going to have to take it on faith that the town block is town.

However that leap of faith is not really a big leap. If FA or myself or Sakura were scum it would have been advantageous to actually kill with power negate and be outed as then due to the gamestate Nancy and you get lynched. When I was scum in Shadowrun I used this specific idea in Shadowrun when I was forced to kill the traitor and then had just barely enough to get the resurrection at the end of the game.

Furthermore we know that assuming Titus gave powers to someone that night and killed Ank for that reason then this necessarily means she taught scum how to play the long game and therefore would not attract attention to the buddies. All three would have to be alive. Therefore Kokichi and Creature are likely not scum. Furthermore there have been seemingly no negate kills in the townblock. This also seems to be stealth scum.

Do you see where I am going with this?

[Kokichi Oma]

but where were they when i had to defuse that sando town wagon to get some votes on titus? they were not on that wagon and this is proveable

Lol. Do you not remember my deal with shiro? Likely why shiro was killed by the way

[Kokichi Oma]

I wanted titus since day 2 when she was picked leader when literally no one voted for her. Also only voted sando at that time cause nos claimed a guilty on him

[MathBlade]

I wanted titus since day 2 when she was picked leader when literally no one voted for her. Also only voted sando at that time cause nos claimed a guilty on him

...It’s shit like this that makes me wonder if Titus was stupid.

People claiming guilties or masons has been refuted so many damn times. It was also refuted many times day one and two this simple doesn’t fly.

[Kokichi Oma]

You're assuming I've read nearly 350 pages. I said I'd actually get into the game if I'm given an ability.

[Kokichi Oma]

Either way titus was literally obvious mafia. Anyone taking credit I dont like

[Toogeloo]

V/LA until after my lynch.

[MathBlade]

You're assuming I've read nearly 350 pages. I said I'd actually get into the game if I'm given an ability.

Wrong you read it enough to see a guilty claim.
Ergo you would read the responses to that. So even if you missed all the previous you would still look at the bare minimum responses.

Not reading everything understandable not reading responses to the reason you’re voting is still sketchy.

Am I being unreasonable here?

[Nero Cain]

I'm ready to end the day after I reply to Math.