Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[stungun0404]

VOTE: Titus

Starting to like this vote more than Human.

Oh man, and just when i was thinking of switching my vote, Cerb goes ahead and posts #353

It does seem rather hinky. It's rather unlike Cerb to suppose town can just keep 6 people alive indefinitely and that FA would automatically trust him. Seems exactly why scum would let FA be a leader. Town!Cerb is more of a critical thinker than that. Town!Cerb would also consider the possibility of a factionsl strongman.

VOTE: Cerb

I dunno. I think Cerb is likely town here based on meta. Where do you get that scum wanted FA to be a leader? It looked like a mostly town vote to me. Why would you think FA’s being a leader is primarily scum motivated?

Basic math. 5 scum. If scum didn't want FA to be leader, they coordinate on someone else. FA has received fewer than 5 votes claimed. The Day 1 leader is always scum motivated. (Note: That does not mean FA scum).

Cerb acting as if he cannot die is rather scummy. A town Cerb considers that a) There might be a factional strongman b) That FA might read him as scum incorrectly and thus not give him a vest or c) imply she would give cerb a vest to protect more town reads but scum shoot Cerb anyway.

1) I don't get why scum MUST coordinate... They could simply just choose not to and pick whoever they prefer.....
2) Each player on the team pick their own powers.

@cupcake

read human sequencer and 123456789 ISOs and tell me what you see

What are you trying to say here?

Bad post.

Can you look town in the meantime so I can solve the game

You know I lack that gene. So I am not going to Peacock. Talk to me about Numbers. Do you see that he has little follow through like I do?

If you are doing the same thing as me, why are you scumreading me for it?

I should stick to MU. There my intelligence is respected even if disagreed. I don't get voted for mechanics disagreements and trying to sort from my theory.

Yeah, well, it benefits scum to suggest ideas about mechanics that are likely to help scum. In other words, you can’t completely absolve responsibility for what you post since it is just mechanics-related.

Everytime I try to get engagement on my reads, I get ignored and tell me to plug my nose. What specifically should I do? Ignore charismatic scum possibility is not the answer.

Can you clarify this?

Hi Drixx.

Everytime I tried to engage on numbers in a substantive way, I got attacked.

What I say about Numbers gets ignored except for 1 comment by worst.

Numbers is basically just parroting suspicions and not calling anyone town.

Got any thoughts please? Like I miss you. NAI miss you.

Umm... 1) I’m not totally parroting other people’s suspicions. That said, if I agree with something, I’m gonna point it out. 2) I’ve called posts town and I actually do have a bunch of townreads.

I want to lynch in {Titus, Ankamius, Nancy} right now.

---

These interactions with Titus do not suggest to me bussing on 123456789's part, especially given how early in the game they started. And Titus isn't the type of player someone on a scum team usually attempts to bus even unless Titus is already floundering.

TITUS IS NOT SCUM

There's a dozen other interactions between 123456789 reagarding Titus as well, but most are just IIoA from 123456789.

Sando - Town
BBMolla - Null leaning town
NicoRobin - Null
Randomidget - Null leaning scum
Kokichi Oma - Leaning Town
Nancy Drew 39 - Scum
hebichan - Leaning Town
zMuffinMan - Leaning Town
Human Sequencer - Scum
Katsuki - Null
Sakura Hana - Town
Toranga - Town
Frozen Angel - Town
Shiro - Town
Gamma Emerald - Leaning town
Ankamius - Scum
Nosferatu - Leaning town
Cerberus v666 - Scum
Myloninja13 - Null leaning scum
the worst - Town
Titus - Scum
Drixx - Null

From a theory standpoint, scum will often incriminate someone on their team as a scum lean. Given the interactions 123456789 had in the game, I'd be more likely to believe of his scum reads, scum is more likely in: Randomidget or Human Sequencer.

@toogeloo, associatives are easy to distort when scum. i’d offer my own meta to prove that.

associatives aside, where exactly has titus towntelled? i want you to consider that first and foremost

I haven't gotten a scum tell from Titus yet, so as of now, I don't need a reason to look for a town tell since I believe in my associative investigation. Titus just looks like Titus to me, and considering the rules, I'm willing to gamble more on her odds of being town than scum.

hella sketchy interaction here.

toog has no scum tell from tituses play, and thus finds no reason to reevaluate.

wanting to randomize the prs should have been enough to make toog want to reevaluate imo

[stungun0404]

*no scum nor town tell

[stungun0404]

Katsuki, sando and potentially muffin are my scumread.

sando is definitely eliminated from main pool.

but one of if not both of zmuffinman and katsuki is a maybe? probs not both though; i’d tend towards thinking it would be katsuki if one of them

[stungun0404]

didn’t like answer she gave to my question, and generally haven’t liked the lack of stances she has taken and her avid support of majority lynchwagons (titus and sando here)

i asked nos who he/she would neighbourize.

kinda skimmed back but i dont really see anything interesting to comment on and i dont feel like taking a second list

@stungun: probably sakura or the worst, maybe titus or nancy.

the worst doesn’t seem towny enough to neighbourize, and neither does titus, and in fact given that titus has been in her scum pool what is she wanting to get out of that?

1. Support of majority lynch wagons is not scummy. You scum read titus as well. It's dumb that you even bring it up as a point.
2. the worst i would neighborize because he hasn't caught up and neither have i and as town i have a vested interest in bringing him up to speed, and reading is better when you have something to bounce thoughts off of. the worst previously mentioned that he wanted an accountability buddy. This would be fulfilling that request in a sense.

3. I would neighborize titus simply because i find talking to her interesting as she makes no sense 75% of the time.

4. I think nancy is sus based on ank's read. Neighborizing is an easy way to sort.

a titus-nosferatu-toogeloo-one of katsuki/kokichi scum team isn’t looking bad to me at all. nos comes out to start this day phase with a fake cop guilty on sando to distract votes right off the bat away from titus while also saying she advocates a titus wagon, she advocates “maybe” wanting to neighbourize a titus that she thinks is scummy (and advocates neighbourizing another scumread in nancydrew).

1. why is this indicative of me and titus being scum together at all? I took a vote off of sando to vote titus. Makes no sense.

interesting, but you would have neighbourized scum by choosing titus, which might have been a bad usage of it there. would it concern you at all if you had a neighbourize power and you neigbourized scum —> especially in a game with powers —> in case you gained any?

[stungun0404]

it’s also interesting that there is a game related reason to both nancy drew there and the worst, but not titus?

[stungun0404]

fair enough i guess, lol :p

pending on a confscum titus flip, possibly toogeloo enters the pool

haha, foresight!

what if im scum avoiding the question?

still maintain this answer to asking why kokichi voted myloninja is scummy. so perhaps we should consider testing kokichi with the next lynch wagon?

[stungun0404]

i’m a huge fan of every single genre of music there is, so yes. if i had to pick a favorite though, i love oldies—especially music from the ‘70’s. ar

about the same tbh I kinda love a bit of everything but mostly swing 70s rock and progressive <3

spectacular! <3

what artists? are you into any of the moody blues? jim croce? def leppard? or america?

lol. mathblade and i be townslipping not recognizing that sakura took bulletproof last night. so that effectively nullifies that argument, but sakura as leader might be a little more optimal because of her focus on townreading slots moreso than drixx. drixx says he doesn’t do very well with townreads, anyways.

Either I gave the wrong impression or you misunderstood me. I townhunt very well. I just don't generally

share

my town reads and reasons why until there's a reason to do so. It serves no value for me to signal to someone I'm very sure is town that I recognize it. All that accomplishes is putting them higher on scum's radar.

The proper time to reveal and explain townreads is when it gives you a boost in EV/WC. When I think I can lock the game up for a town win, I'll generally start throwing out things (ranging from subtle to overt) to firm up my reads and at some point (if left alive and nobody else is strongly townleading) I'll come out swinging for the fences.

The best example I can think of this off the top of my head is Steven Universe (in hydra with Cerberus). We collectively spent perhaps 100 hours about 1/3 of the way through the game to firm up our reasoning for town reads, and then some more time to make sure we hadn't missed something before we then dumped into the thread our theory of game. It's a little ironic that I feel like that game is the best example of my MO as a town leader when we lost that game but ... the context of that game mitigates it I suppose. We really did have the game to a "Town literally cannot lose unless a town player intentionally sabotages" state ... and a townie sabotaged.

Anyway ... don't want you to misunderstand how I roll. Think of me like an iceberg. You can see a little bit but you're not going to have any idea of what you can't see until I crash into you. (If you'll allow me to stretch the metaphor a bit).

gotcha! so you could be like what wrecked the titanic — just coming out of nowhere and BAM that iceberg sinks the mafia battleship and boom, the game is solved! that sounds awesome

[stungun0404]

When I said I was willing to replace in I didn't realize this was 300+ pages and I'm, not reading that. Tell me who we are lynching and why.

toogeloo. yucky association with flipped scum titus—based on townleaning hardest on titus after replacing in before the lynch of titus (he replaced in at the same point as me for reference and hard defended titus several times), and for a defeatist type of play since that does not match town in our perspectives.

there was a lot of resistance to the titus wagon, mainly from flipped town shiro and toogeloo. we think toog is scum

[stungun0404]

also his predecessor, bbmolla, wasn’t all that town either. in fact kinda scummy imo

[stungun0404]

there was a lot of resistance to the titus wagon, mainly from flipped town shiro and toogeloo. we think toog is scum

Are you saying that toog has to be scum b/c shiro was town?

pretty much

the amount of resistance to the titus wagon was telling. we concluded last day phase that she was not the centerpiece scum wanted to get rid of because titus was voted leader d2, and so had a superpower that only ine other scum might also have since ankamius died and titus claimed to have given ank a superpower

[stungun0404]

*one other scum

[stungun0404]

mathblade and i were the hardest against the entire day phase and maybe to a lesser extent sando, and we were met with constant resistance

[stungun0404]

*against titus

toranaga played a part too towards the end

[stungun0404]

I'm not defeatist, I'm lazy and know it's detrimental to town, and I know half the game suspected me after the Titus thing anyways, so I offered myself up willingly.

stun sees what he wants to see and paints the picture to match. I figure I might as well let him feel good about his reading for now, and then call me terrible tomorrow after my flip. Don't care. I stand by the fact that the game was moving way to fast for any sane player to have an interest in keeping up, and getting me out now is a favor for both me and the town.

scum hunt if you have problems, thanks! refer me to one other player that might be scum that is not fa. fa is not scum

you said i was painting picassos with titus last day phase. apparently i am painting another wrong picture here?

[stungun0404]

fa is locktown if anything

[stungun0404]

nero cain, here’s a question i had asked to your predecessor katsuki who never answered, and that i would like you to answer to when you get settled into the game:

if you were voted town leader, who are the players you would likely give powers to and why? i don’t see this as the most likely to happen, but i’d like to see some substance here.

[stungun0404]

Don't mind me too much NC. I'm dead man walking, willingly too of course. I'm just making sure I fill my quota of "content" so as to not have to worry about being prodded.

As for who is scum? I haven't read much of this game, including most the Day 3 I replaced in on since that was over 100 pages in and of itself. Judging by the mechanics though, I would almost certainly say that scum is hyper bussing itself for the long game and hoping to get a few of it's members into the incubator for powers. This isn't the type of game where scum defends itself, it's the type of game where you become paranoid of the towniest players because from what I've seen, there isn't really much in the way that offers Guilties, so scum want to be given power as often as possible and look as town as possible doing it.

I'd be wary of anyone who is leading town frequently, but hasn't been killed, not that that is really going to help much since a lot of players are becoming "bulletproof" giving them reason to last longer in the game. There might be a scum lurker or two, but almost assuredly one or two is playing the long game and bussing their entire team if they need to.

fa became town leader d3 from majority votes though? so town thought she was town enough to have her be the leader again. she won with 4 votes the first time and i am not sure how many the second time, but ank apparently was another option and was nk’d.

also there were only 2 votes apparently in favor of titus when she became leader. apparently several people did not vote, so there was no reason titus should have been leader if everyone had voted. scum probably did not even plan on it is what we can take away from that

you keep have been speaking to me as though i am unconditionally town tunneling you and now proven-to-be-scum titus ever since you have replaced in. do you believe i am town and am wrongly tunneling you?

[stungun0404]

fa is locktown if anything

No one is lock town in this game unless they have a confirmed inno. The mechanics of this game do not support "lock-town" and it'll end up being a shame on you for trusting so freely.

Game started with no one having powers. You really think scum wasn't going to be as town as possible and bus the ever living shit out of their team to get said power?

i tend to take the stance that if there are heavy odds from one thing being town on top of heavy odds of another statement or action being town on top of another on top of another on top of another = that person is town by occam’s razor. much easier explanation for several gamebreaking explanations that lead to thinking a player is town

[stungun0404]

there are so many points i can lead you to for fa being town to the point where it just does not make sense in a game where she is scum this game, especially scum with titus

[stungun0404]

nero cain, here’s a question i had asked to your predecessor katsuki who never answered, and that i would like you to answer to when you get settled into the game:

if you were voted town leader, who are the players you would likely give powers to and why? i don’t see this as the most likely to happen, but i’d like to see some substance here.

Why would you ask me this? I mean maybe at some point curiosity will get the better of me and I'll sit down and read shit but at the same time I'm really really not looking forward to it and I might not. I'm town though and will form some reads as I go along.

feel free to answer it later

but i just wanted to let you know about it. i will let you get settled first though

we’re all at somewhat of info deficit on your slot tbch

[stungun0404]

fa is locktown if anything

Game started with no one having powers. You really think scum wasn't going to be as town as possible and bus the ever living shit out of their team to get said power?

as for this mechanic. i have not paid attention to bussing, but apparently YOU DID when you townread Titus. what kind of backwards statement? if you are now throwing out game mechanic reasons for the bussing, then why did you defend titus so hard last day phase when i was hard scumreading titus?

and there is a difference between looking town and actually being town. it is a very fine line that does not elude me very often.

[stungun0404]

I kinda don't think Toog is scum though. Like I get why ppl think he could be and maybe the

aTe

is just getting to me. If he's town its fairly commendable that he's willing to get lynched to erase the WIFOM.

problem is he did not ate at all until literally when you joined this game. he was dead silent before then, but that causes him to show up?

also he moved from titus wagon to creature wagon in last hours of last day phase very sketchily. we almost went down to the wire, and almost did not lynch scum titus

[stungun0404]

*from katsuki wagon to creature wagon correction

[stungun0404]

VOTE: The worst

i want duckling to be the counterwagon here, because odds are decently high he is scum, especially if toog is not

@tw, what tempted you to join the creature wagon last day phase?

same for you toog?

[stungun0404]

And bear in mind, I was never once on the Titus lynch, not ever, so don't say I switched off of the Titus lynch, because that is wrong.

i corrected myself in the next post...

[stungun0404]

fa became town leader d3 from majority votes though? so town thought she was town enough to have her be the leader again. she won with 4 votes the first time and i am not sure how many the second time, but ank apparently was another option and was nk’d.

It's like you don't comprehend anything I said. Why is it impossible that FA is not scum and bussing the ever living crap out of her team? Scum want power, they have to be as town as possible to get said power, they aren't going to be playing their typical scum game here. Town aren't the only people voting for leaders too, scum will choose the leader who best suits them if and when they can. FA could be scum, or she could be a puppet of scum (people she trusts).

except scum does not bother brainwashing another scum member on d1,like titus tried to do with fa. that is foolish scum theatre in any situation where that happens

[stungun0404]

I'm dissapointed that the people that have posted didnt answer my question, I even bolded and everything so it was harder to miss.
Also i think this is town Nero so far.

of leaders, optimally: sakura and fa for me.

[stungun0404]

but i am absolutely fine with drixx

[stungun0404]

protip: stungun is scum

then vote me i guess? merely floating the idea is like testing the waters, which i do not like

[stungun0404]

Been away for a few days since starting hormones, but looking through the past few pages, Stungun's felt a bit wormy to me for awhile now. I'm completely willing to lynch there, other than that, anything going on I should know about?

I get toog is probably being lynched today, but that early self vote makes me feel like it will just flip town. Feels like town who knows we're in a good position and wants less focus placed on their slot by dying.

please explain why i feel wormy

[stungun0404]

VOTE: The worst

i want duckling to be the counterwagon here, because odds are decently high he is scum, especially if toog is not

@tw, what tempted you to join the creature wagon last day phase?

same for you toog?

This post feels really bad to me Math. His position on toog changes pretty quickly and I'm not sure why.

........................................................................

Idk, I've just felt AMAZING since yesterday and I don't know if its hormones or just my excitement or both... my anxiety and depression are just, less?

look. i am not 100 percent certain toog is scum, but i want to lynch him. that does not mean i cannot pressure tw, who is also in my scumpool which consists of toog, the worst, kokichi and nero cain’s slot primarily

[stungun0404]

besides, this push is coming from hebichan, a person that i do not think even acknowledged my question to them when i asked it the first time and i think the second time, so they might not be paying attention to everything i post

[stungun0404]

i can confirm: hebichan NEVER answered my question to them. so are they even paying attention to the content of my posts? probably not

[stungun0404]

No, I am not 100% reading everything -everyone- posted. However, I did ISO you and reading around that post, just a bit earlier the only push you wanted to make was Toog and suddenly you want to counterwago.

idk if i believe this - did you iso me vs. titus. why is that scum vs. scum?

plus, if you read a fair chunk of it, you would see that question i asked you in the mass questions post

[stungun0404]

when the majority push against me is coming from players that are not 100 percent up to date on my content, that is not a reliable push, just saying. it’s just nero and hebichan, but no one else really right now except maybe a hint of gamma emerald

but the primary townblock who is relatively well keeping up-to-date, with maybe a slight exception of toranaga, does not seem to have worries: see fa, sando, mathblade overall, toranaga, sakura hana —> THAT is what we should be paying attention to

[stungun0404]

i’d trust townblock reads > non-townblock reads any day

[stungun0404]

when the majority push against me is coming from players that are not 100 percent up to date on my content, that is not a reliable push, just saying. it’s just nero and hebichan, but no one else really right now except maybe a hint of gamma emerald

but the primary townblock who is relatively well keeping up-to-date, with maybe a slight exception of toranaga, does not seem to have worries: see fa, sando, mathblade overall, toranaga, sakura hana —> THAT is what we should be paying attention to

and to be clear, this is to say toranaga is not keeping well up-to-date necessarily, and not that he has cast any serious doubts about me

[stungun0404]

i’d trust townblock reads > non-townblock reads any day

and this is because if they are possibly scum, they are going to want to push AGAINST the towniness of established players on the weaker end. we cannot trust these type of pushes

[stungun0404]

I'd give a vest to gamma, probably.


I was gonna say Sakura before I read the not widely townread thing.

ok you did, i must have forgot. but i do remember following up on it now that i have seen it again with a question that was not answered. is there anything in gamma’s content that gives you a definite town indication?

[stungun0404]

Ok so, first of all, Nero, I remember something about you being lurkier as scum and so far you feel pretty engagy? enganging? dunno which word would describe it best, i wouldnt call it fail proof, but i wanna believe it.
As for other things, stun me being town just means im not going to mislead you, it doesnt guarantee that im right, i encourage people to engage me on my reads if they feel something is wrong, buddying is a weakness of mine coz i cant differentiate very well between town and scum townreading me.

As for the spamhaus situation is still not solved unfortunately.

you said yesterday i would be heavily town-spewed or sth like that with a titus scumflip (which i took a mental note of). what has changed since then? i have not seen you really follow up with it. kinda like i spotted titus over the night phase never following up on toranaga’s alignment after a numbers lynch, which with titus being scum probs suggested she did not care because toranaga was town. not implying you are scum, as i am really heavy on you being town to the point you are nearly locktown, but i am just curious why you have not followed up on it this day phase so far.


——————————-

tw’s vote on me last day phase was awkward enough that i am ok with that being a counterwagon this day phase.


@nero cain, if you are genuinely town, i would like you to iso drixx at some point and see if your scum indication there upholds. also, toog said he would completely reevaluate everything last round if titus flipped scum, but has not followed through with it. as both of us were prior to d3 replace-ins, and he attacked my analysis methods/content multiple times, but i successfully found scum, i do not know what issue he could possibly be appealing to me here with, but it is unsettling and in fact i want back on his wagon next so i will just UNVOTE: The Worst, because i do not want to move on there right away tbch — especially when i do not know how many votes are on there.

also, fun fact: i was initially the second on the titus wagon yesterday and would have had to, according to nosferatu, “make the bus of 2018” in the instance one concludes we were scum partners after replacing in last day phase and actively tunneling titus which started with her randomization argument about power roles, which is so pro scum, while sticking up for sando who i felt was a mislynch wagon and hella town on his content. not suggesting it should be theoretically eliminated, but if nos said it, maybe you should consider it if town. i was initially first on the toogeloo wagon today until i unvoted to let the day phase extend longer. toog was at L-2 because of a self vote when i moved off his wagon together with mathblade.

————————————————-

i am going to sort through the players in my possible scum pool here shortly, which consists entirely of: theta alpine, hebichan, gamma emerald, creature, nosferatu (first 5 there are current very very slight townleans)

and then the pool of 4 scum to scumleans category: (toogeloo, the worst, kokichi, and nero cain (who might actually be town, but i need to meta him)).


now actually the fact that no one has voiced a serious townlean or anything on toog probs means he is scum tbch. scum are apparently afraid of voicing a slight townlean on him, which is telling.

unless scum includes nero cain, or maybe hebichan (off memory) or maybe gamma emerald (i do not remember if he spoke on the matter or not). but if toog flips town, it is very likely one of them is speaking from an informed perspective, and thus scum. because i literally cannot townread toog atm

[stungun0404]

If you can't townread toog why did you start a counterwagon?

i similarly can’t really bring myself to townread tw. and i have seen him as scum in multiple games. but then again, i did crosskill him in a scum game because i thought he was scum but he flipped town, so eh.

i just wanted to see what a counterwagon there did, if anything

[stungun0404]

no wait i think i thought he was a day vig actually and not necessarily scum. but i thought one or the other and it happened to be neither

[stungun0404]

apparently. Why should I have taken that as a joke and not as some limp-wristed pushback?

I think the ppl calling Toog scum are either lazy, argumentative town, or scum thats like overcompensating or some combination of. Toog is getting lynched today. Whether he's just town that is just like "oh hey, I'm expendable and I screwed up." or he's scum that's

Ate

ing and/o his team wants to bus him for the town cred.

If scum bussed for towncred they bussed titus.

wait. why the day 2 leader with definite superpowers over a replace-in with little motive and possibly no powers?

[stungun0404]

hmm, that is actually a good point i had not seen yet! but if she was obvious scum, then why was there so much clear resistance to her wagon last day phase? sando (what i think is a mislynch wagon) seriously gained ground at the start of the day phase and was difficult to move votes off of, until mathblade and i had seriously discredit titus, then some players sheeped us, but there was still clear resistance wagons of katsuki AND creature. so there was both seriously stated AND unstated resistance to her wagon, especially with us being around 2 hours until deadline when she finally just hammered herself.

[stungun0404]

and further, hebichan why were you on the katsuki/ now nero cain slot---wagon if titus was so obviously scum? that does not add up to me.

[stungun0404]

Titus' primary defender was Shiro, who was also talking for cerb at the time. Shiro was town.

It was townsided resistance. I think there was a perception we just wanted to lynch Titus for getting elected day 2, and people were trying to argue that scum wouldn't be that transparent.


I switched to the nero slot when I thought titus wasn't going to be lynched.. I was getting very frustrated at that point. If you wanna look through my game history, I have a habit of jumping around wagons as either alignment.

I mean I opened up day three screaming Titus was scum.

i disagree that it was townsided resistance, knowing that i myself am town and being pretty damned certain sando and mathblade are town, and that fa was one of the last votes on the wagon--who is pretty much locktown to me, and that nancydrew sheeped me on the wagon.

if anything, i'm pretty certain it was a fair balance of town AND scum resistance. so i definitely disagree there.

but you were there at the end of the day questioning me about switching to the creature lynch when i was distracted by the fact that he is 2-0 in scum games against me before i switched right back to titus, but YOU never joined the titus wagon yourself which was kinda strange. why not add a vote there if you felt certain it was scum? i think you might be town, but your statements here do not line up.

and your certainty was apparently just as high if not higher that katsuki/nero cain's slot was scum? i'm not sure i grok what you mean there

[stungun0404]

shiro's read were so blatantly false. he confscummed me, and suggested fa as a partner. i think he was trying to survive, and thus threw things out that scum might want to keep alive.

and he townread titus--which we all know was bs.

[stungun0404]

his posts themselves i had even called out as blatant lies while he was here.

[stungun0404]

So Shiro was scum?

Cause he directly called for the sando counterwagon.

That is one person. One person does not a resistance make.

I just don’t believe you.

I even called scum would come out and be more active.

The Titus wagon was blocked hard by scum. The kills support that theory. The activity of the players supports that theory.

Hebichan are you scum hun? Trying to buddy me?

i am starting to think more and more hebichan may be scum here, with how she is giving serious credence to the obviously flat-out wrong reads of shiro, whose primary intent we have established was merely to stay alive.

[stungun0404]

I am thinking Hebichan UFO Toog
UFO doesn’t mimic Shiro because he doesn’t want to talk to the dead
Hebichan because of trying to change the narrative to something false
And Toog for obvious reasons.

@stun Sanity check me?

i do not think ufo, but can agree with hebichan. i think the other is the worst, nero cain, or kokichi oma but i need to figure out which for sure. toranaga vs. titus has too much of a town vs. scum feel for me to believe ufo is scum here.

[stungun0404]

I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.

And so what im doing in this game was born.

Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.

I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.

I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.

I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.

@titus point to me where have I jumped to the scum conclusion, cause I missed that part. or did you just respond to us both, whiteknighting sakura without reading my post fully?

what I said is that sakura's stance on not giving reads is not indicative of scum, and that I find cerberus' post about it villagery anyway. also that I like people pushing sakura about it, because it's unhelpful behaviour.

I find your whiteknight a little worrysome.

I'm definitely not repeating that day 1 again.

And so what im doing in this game was born.

Okay. So this, along with the "deliberately ignoring thing", ping me pretty hard. Normally, when someone looks at a post I made and chooses to ignore all of it except one part, they just do so without the snarky comment included. This generally results in them getting pushed more about the part they ignored by myself, and anyone else who was interested in the point(s) I raised.

I see deliberately calling out the fact that she ignored the rest of the post as an attempt to preempt said pushing. I was debating whether to ask if that bit of flavor in Sakuras post was characteristic of her posting style, or if it had a good chance of being preemptive scum deflection, but this last post seems to support my position . Here Sakura is again, preempting questioning about her reason for playing the way she is, by posting a link and a joke. She already said it was because of a game in the past, nobody asked for a link to the game or anything, but here she is ready to justify what she's doing before the conversation gets too deep into whether her behavior is anti-town or not.

I love that sakura is being pushed for this and find your reasoning extremely villagery from you, and I was villa reading your posting before anyway so this is cool. I don't know if I agree with this, though. I don't think sakura is necessarily doing what she is doing as an excuse to not work on the game, but rather because she is the kind of individualistic millennial generation type of player. I'm sure she'll start posting reads as the game progresses regardless of her rand.

I find you both are acting arrogant and fail to understand relevance. Everyone, even me, selectively responds. Why and to what reveal alignment. By jumping to the scum conclusion, it's not hunting but a straw man. For d1 it might get something to start the game but nothing to get mighty over. Sakura probably town.

Based on Minuet game, I can relate to where she’s coming from. I experienced a very similar thing in a recent game (offsite). If you make reasonable assumptions based on logic that other people disagree with, you can get mistakenly scumread for that. I know what happened to me is still messing with my head. But why is their push scummy rather than probably wrong? I’ve observed plenty of games (primarily on MU) where town gets stuck in tunnel vision? Could that not be the case here?

It's theoretically possibly both are wrong town. It happens a lot. Strawmen cases are very anti-town. They decided that Sakura was scummy and then used her response to justify it.

There's even a theoetical chance they are trying to convince themselves of Sakura being scum.

It's just so anti-characteristic of Cerb when I ususally get hemms and haws no matter how hard I plead.

UFO just tends to chase strawmen so less worrying from him.

so you're pegging me as someone who is likely to chase straw man, from an argument I didn't make and didn't agree with, and you're still drawing a lean on me, even if it's a null one, saying the straw man I'm chasing isn't worrysome. that's a lazy read. I have no idea how you can misinterpret me saying sakura's stuff is probably NAI as me deciding sakura was scummy, which was never the case, and then just shrug it off as UFO being UFO. it seems like you're not interested in parsing me out, titus. is this because you're scum?

I don't think scumtus finds the things I'm noting about Sakura threatening enough to move to protect her if they were teammates. If Titus is scum, this is weak protection being offered up for a known town flip, and not protection of a buddy...and I'm not sure how often Titus would actually do this as scum at this point, so it's super weak cause to be suspicious of her.

notice, cerberus, that I'm not making an associative read between titus and sakura. in fact, I find it more likely that sakura is town if titus is a wolf trying to defend her in this situation. but this is not what my read is about. I'm just concerned with 1) clearly not reading my posting, 2) drawing leans, even null-like leans from it wrt my alignment and 3) defending sakura from accusation I didn't participate in. I think that's all very lazy in a scummy way.

You and Cerb both were implying Sakura was scummy for her posting.

I didn't draw a lean on your alignment. When I am town, we consistently have such fights where you walk back what you claim or argue disagreeing with you is bad or scummy. You did it with Sakura now me.

bolded is false and shows you haven't been reading with the attention you're supposed to.

what did I and sakura disagreed with and where did I ever say she was scummy?

what did me and you disagreed with and where did I say you were scummy for it?

@titus: notice the only TvT fight I ever had with you, titus, was when I was hydraing with divagreen and rolling with her read of your slot. that was the only TvT fight we had. otherwise we've been either both scum or scum vs town in every game IIRC. in the two games we were both town (that light game on MU and the other game I got mislynched), I managed to townread you and you've townread me. so your ideas on how I play and how hard we go at each other aren't necessarily all there. that one hydra game and assassins' creed were the games we tried to kill each other, but in AC you were a wolf.

No. You picked a fight with me when I caught the entire scumteam d1 on MU. I can never find that game though when I need it. You and Raj are the same. You love consensus and you think its right.

I hate consensus without challenge. Therefore you view me as the enemy.

you caught one wolf for extremely titus astrological reasons only you understand, and then you caught me (more especifically, you caught diva) who was a villager as their wolfbro. you did not catch the entire scumteam. and me and divagreen played an absolutely gorgeous game after you were dead, tyvm.

where am I someone who loves consensus? you're just attributing lots of things to my game that I'm not.

Like I literally cannot whiteknight Sakura from your comments UFO if they are not shading her. It's definitional.

if you're saying I'm calling her scummy, then yes you can. by misinterpreting what I say, building that straw man you say I'm the one who loves punching, and then punching it. that's your doing lady.

you gave reads, just didn't expand when asked.

That is correct.

if you can go down from your millennial podium for a second to explain this one I'd appreciate it.

I'd appreciate it if you didnt talk about it in that way, I never said I was better than anyone, nor that my reads should be listened to without explanation, im just relaxing and being lazy.

These posts shade Sakura fwiw. You imply she's millenial and thus lesser.

VOTE: titus

I'm doing this.

calling someone a millennial being on the same footing with shading them has to be the most nonsense thing I was ever accused with, which reminds me of when I posted a voldemort gif and you said I was claiming scum in assassins' creed.

this is what you do as scum. you throw any logic out the window to push whatever you want pushed. you'd be more reasonable as town.

@titus: notice the only TvT fight I ever had with you, titus, was when I was hydraing with divagreen and rolling with her read of your slot. that was the only TvT fight we had. otherwise we've been either both scum or scum vs town in every game IIRC. in the two games we were both town (that light game on MU and the other game I got mislynched), I managed to townread you and you've townread me. so your ideas on how I play and how hard we go at each other aren't necessarily all there. that one hydra game and assassins' creed were the games we tried to kill each other, but in AC you were a wolf.

No. You picked a fight with me when I caught the entire scumteam d1 on MU. I can never find that game though when I need it. You and Raj are the same. You love consensus and you think its right.

I hate consensus without challenge. Therefore you view me as the enemy.

you caught one wolf for extremely titus astrological reasons only you understand, and then you caught me (more especifically, you caught diva) who was a villager as their wolfbro. you did not catch the entire scumteam. and me and divagreen played an absolutely gorgeous game after you were dead, tyvm.

where am I someone who loves consensus? you're just attributing lots of things to my game that I'm not.

Not the same game. The game I was hydraed with divagreen was just a bunch of personal baggage crap when I FoSed one scum. Town crapped the bed and attacked me for it so I gave up.

I don't remember the game I attacked you as TvT then. can you enlighten me? are you sure it was me?

Sando - Weak town
BBmolla - Null, weak lean scum
NicoRobin - Lean scum
randomidget - Who? Null problem
Kokichi Oma - Same
Nancy Drew 39 - Town with reservations
hebichan - Town lean
zMuffinMan - Town by wagons, weak town by play
Human Sequencer - Town
Katsuki - Weak town
Sakura Hana - Biggest TR
Toranaga - Conflicted should get a read but I need him to do something other than fight me
Frozen Angel - Townish but maybe captured dunno
123456789 - Eat rope
Shiro - Scum, No cookies
Gamma Emerald - Who
Ankamius brassherald - Town annoying but town
Nosferatu Chickadee - Town
Cerberus v666 - Conflicted by play, leader vote says townish maybe
Myloninja13 - Who
the worst - Needs more
Titus - That Asshole talks behind my back
Drixx - I wanna work on Worm

this list is pretty good and I think you're town now :shrug:

this progression would be super strange if they are scum together; further the vote switch from titus to creature for pressure with an attempt back to titus eod would be super strange; especially since titus would probably let a partner hammer here there (ufo) rather than hammering herself if he was planning to. it reads as a strange progression for scum to make on scum to me on a day that numbers was lynched as scum anyway; i do not think toranaga changes stance on titus to town like this. this just doesn't read like scum theatre to me.

but maybe i am perhaps biased because i similarly switched to the creature lynch last day phase back to titus, like toranaga intended to?

[stungun0404]

but it is kinda strange that torg was town-reading titus for a list without many hard stances, i do admit

[stungun0404]

and also, ank's townblock read of toranaga upheld my impression; that's another reason i townread toranaga. her townblock was ankamius, frozen angel, mathblade and toranaga; and i can chime with all of those being town.

[stungun0404]

i agree that her ate made me unravel a bit too; like the mere calmness and focused nature of it not directed attention straight to other players just did not seem scummy


but toranaga, if you had to choose between the worst or kokichi, which one would you rather lynch sooner than later and why? these are both in my scum pool, so i’m interested in your response here

[stungun0404]

I'm townreading the worst personally

can you elaborate on this read on this stance please?

——————————

back to reviewing the answers to my questions last day phase, which i admittedly got sidetracked from. i plan to be one of scum’s worst nightmares so long as i am alive, so i need to focus on this

gamma emerald is in my possibly scumpool: his answer yesterday on my question can be seen in 5084, wherein he states human sequencer (the predecessor of creature) was kinda scummy but not enough for him to scumread, and that gamma did not remember creature being in the game so that was instant scumpoints out of the gate, and asked me where i had previously asked this or if i had during d2 — but i was not in the game on d2, lol.

reads my long post on creature’s slot later and concludes human sequencer replace-out is nai as they are kinda flaky.

gamma emerald takes a stance thinking creature is scummy, even though he primarily focuses on the titus slot yesterday, who was scum - so that might be something to note as a plausible distancing attempt if anywhere there was one.

but overall, i like that he took a definite stance rather than beating around the bush with his answer here.


——————————-
apart from that, gamma emerald votes kokichi for leader d1 “to see what he would do with the power”, lol. idk if that is town or scum tbh, because there isn’t a protown reason and this could be genuine, but it sure is interesting.

296 from gamma emerald is super strange, given that numbers flipped scum.

309 is kinda awkward too in response to titus.

quote="In post 310, Gamma Emerald"]

I'm pretty sure purely random out of

5/22

is almost guaranteed to wind up with a scum. Purely random with a smaller number of people selected *might* be optimal, but really, I think that's a silly line to take.

huh?[/quote]
why is gamma questioning cerb here? seems to be going with titus’s suggestion of randomization of pr’s, which is slightly concerning.

hmm, i need to take a serious look at gamma here guys!

[stungun0404]

ebwop in spoiler

Spoiler: edit

I'm townreading the worst personally

can you elaborate on this stance please?

——————————

back to reviewing the answers to my questions last day phase, which i admittedly got sidetracked from. i plan to be one of scum’s worst nightmares so long as i am alive, so i need to focus on this

gamma emerald is in my possibly scumpool: his answer yesterday on my question can be seen in 5084, wherein he states human sequencer (the predecessor of creature) was kinda scummy but not enough for him to scumread, and that gamma did not remember creature being in the game so that was instant scumpoints out of the gate, and asked me where i had previously asked this or if i had during d2 — but i was not in the game on d2, lol.

reads my long post on creature’s slot later and concludes human sequencer replace-out is nai as they are kinda flaky.

gamma emerald takes a stance thinking creature is scummy, even though he primarily focuses on the titus slot yesterday, who was scum - so that might be something to note as a plausible distancing attempt if anywhere there was one.

but overall, i like that he took a definite stance rather than beating around the bush with his answer here.


——————————-
apart from that, gamma emerald votes kokichi for leader d1 “to see what he would do with the power”, lol. idk if that is town or scum tbh, because there isn’t a protown reason and this could be genuine, but it sure is interesting.

296 from gamma emerald is super strange, given that numbers flipped scum.

309 is kinda awkward too in response to titus.

I'm pretty sure purely random out of

5/22

is almost guaranteed to wind up with a scum. Purely random with a smaller number of people selected *might* be optimal, but really, I think that's a silly line to take.

huh?

why is gamma questioning cerb here? seems to be going with titus’s suggestion of randomization of pr’s, which is slightly concerning.

hmm, i need to take a serious look at gamma here guys!

[stungun0404]

[spoiler = continuing gamma emerald]

I'm pretty sure purely random out of

5/22

is almost guaranteed to wind up with a scum. Purely random with a smaller number of people selected *might* be optimal, but really, I think that's a silly line to take.

huh?

23 total....FA is one of them, so 22 remaining...she picks *5* OTHER players...so 5/22 can be selected at most.

Okay I must have missed some context then, for some reason I thought you were talking about alignment ditribution

ok, i missed this answer initially.

as of 406 though i’m not real fond of your serious focus on questioning why people are townrading players rather than scumhunting/townhunting in particular yourself.

for as much as gamma wants to policy lynch posters posting a lot in this thread, he sure does have a lot of contentless individual posts himself, which is quite hypocrital.

why is stating a post restriction scum-motivated, as you derived in your 475?

i’m seeing a lot of trying to look town in gamma’s posting, but it’s not exactly content i can say is town. and there is quite a few strange associations with flipped scum :-/

do you have any thoughts on titus, 123456789, human sequencer or gamma emerald?

Why this set of people?

lol 2 of these have flipped scum.
what if they are all scum? including zmuffinman? all alive members are absolutely in my poe pool. the fact that zmuffinman asked about 2 scum there is kinda strange, i guess. but maybe he doesn’t do that with his partners, idk?

otherwise why is gamma asking about this pool? seeing 2 flipped scum in there is kinda strange for gamma’s sake; also looks like gamma was in ank’s questionably scum pool — which already was right with titus.

there is a lot of hypocritical material in gamma’s iso, lol. why have we been townreading him?

[/spoiler]

[stungun0404]

lol, fixed

Spoiler: continuing gamma emerald

I'm pretty sure purely random out of

5/22

is almost guaranteed to wind up with a scum. Purely random with a smaller number of people selected *might* be optimal, but really, I think that's a silly line to take.

huh?

23 total....FA is one of them, so 22 remaining...she picks *5* OTHER players...so 5/22 can be selected at most.

Okay I must have missed some context then, for some reason I thought you were talking about alignment ditribution

ok, i missed this answer initially.

as of 406 though i’m not real fond of your serious focus on questioning why people are townrading players rather than scumhunting/townhunting in particular yourself.

for as much as gamma wants to policy lynch posters posting a lot in this thread, he sure does have a lot of contentless individual posts himself, which is quite hypocrital.

why is stating a post restriction scum-motivated, as you derived in your 475?

i’m seeing a lot of trying to look town in gamma’s posting, but it’s not exactly content i can say is town. and there is quite a few strange associations with flipped scum :-/

do you have any thoughts on titus, 123456789, human sequencer or gamma emerald?

Why this set of people?

lol 2 of these have flipped scum.
what if they are all scum? including zmuffinman? all alive members are absolutely in my poe pool. the fact that zmuffinman asked about 2 scum there is kinda strange, i guess. but maybe he doesn’t do that with his partners, idk?

otherwise why is gamma asking about this pool? seeing 2 flipped scum in there is kinda strange for gamma’s sake; also looks like gamma was in ank’s questionably scum pool — which already was right with titus.

there is a lot of hypocritical material in gamma’s iso, lol. why have we been townreading him?

[stungun0404]

creature are you scum with theta alpine and gamma emerald? if not, then are they town or scum to you in your opinion?

[stungun0404]

i want your read on them, then

it’s easy to say no

[stungun0404]

ok, i can believe you for now because i had all 3 of you as very slight townleans that i am not really trusting, but just found zmuffinman’s (theta’s predecessor) question about titus, numbers, gamma, and human sequencer (your predecessor) strange in that it already included 2 scum in there.

[stungun0404]

and because i am not sold on any of you three being town

[stungun0404]

@nero cain, early in this day phase

Toogeloo was the hardest defender of titus that still remains

I am fine with leading a wagon there

VOTE: Toogeloo

Because i also came to the conclusion last day phase that at least one of toog or shiro was scum.

I'm going to completely reevaluate everything tomorrow though to be certain

first to vote toog

i’ll unvote, though i was happy to be first on this wagon, especially if it is scum

VOTE: unvote

unvoted because he was L-2, and we agreed (two of my townreads — sakura and mathblade — and i) to let the day phase extend longer

[stungun0404]

@nero cain: all day phases are a weeklong in this game, lol. so anytime that i start a counterwagon, it will be with less than a week left in the day phase.

i was already scumreading/leaning on your slot last day phase. this is nothing new. in fact, i voted katsuki last day phase in between 2 of my titus votes. my voting pattern was titus-katsuki-titus-creature-titus last day phase.

Spoiler: notes

123456789 (4): zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana, Human Sequencer, Titus
zMuffinMan (4): BBmolla, Katsuki, Frozen Angel, Nancy Drew 39

Human Sequencer ZzMuffin Up Nancy Down

123456789 (6): zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana, Human Sequencer, Titus, Katsuki, Nosferatu

Titus (3): 123456789, Gamma Emerald, Ankamius

Shiro (2): Toranaga, the worst
zMuffinMan (2): BBmolla, Nancy Drew 39

Katsuki and Nos review for bussing

123456789 (7): zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana, Human Sequencer, Titus, Katsuki, Nosferatu, Ankamius

Titus (5): 123456789, Gamma Emerald, Sando, Frozen Angel, hebichan

Shiro (2): Toranaga, the worst
zMuffinMan (2): BBmolla, Nancy Drew 39

Hebi down, Ank closes bus window or starts race

123456789 (8): zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana, Human Sequencer, Titus, Katsuki, Nosferatu, Nancy Drew 39, the worst

Titus (6): 123456789, Gamma Emerald, Sando, Frozen Angel, hebichan, Ankamius


Bus race not likely when Ank swaps wagons closer to EoD, Sando possible bus

Drixx (3): Sakura Hana, hebichan, zMuffinMan
Sando (3): Nosferatu, Drixx, Gamma Emerald



zMuffinMan (4): Sando, the worst, BBmolla, MathBlade

Sando (3): Nosferatu, Drixx, Gamma Emerald

Shiro (2): Sakura Hana, hebichan

zMuffinMan (3): Sando, the worst, BBmolla


Drixx (3): Sakura Hana, Sando, Katsuki
Sando (3): Nosferatu, Drixx, Gamma Emerald
zMuffinMan (3): the worst, BBmolla, MathBlade


Myloninja13 (3): zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana, the worst
Sando (3): Nosferatu, Drixx, Gamma Emerald

Drixx (2): Sando, Katsuki
zMuffinMan (2): BBmolla, MathBlade

Myloninja13 (5): zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana, the worst, Creature, hebichan

Sando (3): Nosferatu, Drixx, Gamma Emerald

Drixx (2): Sando, Katsuki
zMuffinMan (2): BBmolla, MathBlade


Myloninja13 (9): zMuffinMan, Sakura Hana, the worst, hebichan, Kokichi Oma, Shiro, Toranaga, Nancy Drew 39, Creature

Sando (5): Nosferatu, Gamma Emerald, Frozen Angel, Titus, Ankamius

zMuffinMan (3): BBmolla, MathBlade, Drixx


Looking at the Sando wagon, it is nearly universally town. Zmuffin in it's iterations is largely unknown. Drixx is a lightning rod with all sorts of players voting him. Reads more like people wouldn't mind lynching him than players viewing him as scum.

VOTE: Sando

Sakura and zmuffin are likely town due to their early votes on Numbers. Don't vote them until lylo plus 2 unless they get toxic. Yet zmuffin recurrs as a wagon. It's almost like town lets scum wagon the smart people.

My focus today would be on Sando, the worst, bb slit and Math. Lynching a lurker over Sando gives more red flags for Sando.

Don't lynch Sakura, zmuffin

Toranga Nancy Creature should have scum if Sando is scum

VOTE: Katsuki, possibility he’s scum and i want to see where this vote leads.

i still do not support a sando lynch.

and i just read the iso from titus and i missed that she hard-defended two players as town i hadn’t initially seen from her vca —> zmuffinman and sakura hana. i like these players to be town myself, and the pool of players she gave pr’s too seems conceivable from a town perspective.

i think very well titus could still be scum here, but the lack of anything from Katsuki is bothering me, especially ever since i found 2 similar posts to what she’s made in a past scum game.

[stungun0404]

UNVOTE: the worst

[stungun0404]

aw, you must be the bad news bear this game :-/

i’m not against a tw counterwagon; it sure is better for you to vote ducky than yourself

[stungun0404]

damn nero is in this game now?

fuck off and die.

@nero cain: all day phases are a weeklong in this game, lol. so anytime that i start a counterwagon, it will be with less than a week left in the day phase.

i was already scumreading/leaning on your slot last day phase. this is nothing new. in fact, i voted katsuki last day phase in between 2 of my titus votes. my voting pattern was titus-katsuki-titus-creature-titus last day phase.

Well ok. I just didn't really get a sense that you were suspicious of my slot until I called you scum. How do you feel about me now?

with your replace-in, slightly better, but your slot is definitely within my poe pool of 9 players. i would bet the game that there are all 3 scum in that poe pool of 9 players. that means i’d bet the game on 7 players outside of myself being town. i sure could use a couple more solids at this point, so if you pass my town measurement test, than maybe you can perhaps make it a bit easier.

i could still see your slot being scum, but my suspicion has weakened a little with a titus scum flip. your slot faked a guilty on titus i think on d2, and was first on her lynchwagon d3 (but just voted her and did not vote anyone else), with me being second—but your slot did not say a peep really other than voting titus last day phase.

[stungun0404]

it sure is better for you to vote ducky than yourself

you make a convincing argument, but incentive might be required.

if, by chance, you are town that’s all the incentive you should need

look, i’m not perfect, and i am not 100 percent on you being scum, but overall you still are a serious scumlean for me. what’s to say a counterwagon would not help if you are town? voting yourself comes off as a confession that you are scum to me.

I don't understand the need for a Toog counter at all? It does nothing but divide the town. Maybe you are thinking that Toog is scum and a nice juicy, not Toog wagon will get his buddies to vote there?

toog is very likely scum, however i do want to see what a serious counterwagon would do so we can shake up the game a little bit, because i am not 100 percent. there were clear counterwagons last day phase to titus, and it is a little unsettling that there has been no clear counterwagon to toogeloo so far this day phase. would mean scum is just accepting his lynch, i think, or they are demotivated to push anywhere else.

[stungun0404]

@Stun

-sell me on TW scum.

i will give you the case once i am done searching through what has my attention atm. :p

i’m trying to eliminate a few players from my main pool of focus.

nancydrew may be reentering my pool of focus, ugh. her vote on zmuffinman d1 was strange given the wagon there and her hedgy tendencies since.

[stungun0404]

lol, literally only vote kokichi put down on d1 was on scum towards the end of the lynch wagon that

VOTE: 0~9 numbers guy

kinda suss as a potential buss.

[stungun0404]

*that formed

other than that, kokichi had very little of game relevance that day phase

[stungun0404]

the worst has been... very strange with some of his votes

i am doing a mini vca in my head, and his sheep vote of sando on zmuffinman on d2 was strange, his sheep vote of mathblade on d3 was strange, and his vote switch from titus ultimately to creature was strange

so with a fair look at votes to date, tw does not look like town naturally progressing from vote to vote to me.

if i had to guess, i think the remaining scum team is toogeloo-the worst-kokichi at this moment in time

[stungun0404]

*sheeping of mathblade to vote me

[stungun0404]

1-9 -- why the different style of read list?

Pls no reviving jokes after death mafia

quote="In post 1639, the worst"]VOTE: 123456789 if I wasn't already[/quote]
sheeps main lynch wagon on scum player

ooo someone else isn't liking zMuffle

VOTE: zMuffin

sheeps sando

VOTE: Sando

my brain feels like its full of nails



pedit: too much information

if you feel like your brain is full of nails in trying to comprehend a player being scum, then why vote and thus encourage their wagon to pick up steam?

VOTE: stungun0404

no attached reason, but immediately follows mathblade

i mean these votes/progressions are just... strange. they come off as very scummy; i’d like to see more original insight from tw on some players being scummy/towny.

[stungun0404]

Theta's sign makes me think he needs to go asap

*she
and yeah
my own thought process is i am going to die anyways so might as well give town an extra kill in the process

you are not one of our main choices, though. you are towards the bottom of pushes i make from the 9 PoE pool, along with nosferatu at this moment in time. i do not favor lynching either of you today or tomorrow i believe is where i stand right now.

the main poe pool for me atm is: gamma emerald, hebichan, creature, nero cain, toogeloo, the worst, kokichi

[stungun0404]

Plus the math is horribly off. For every bomber there is a two step decrease in player count.

It’s a hella risky idea. Which is why I am sketched out when we have the advantage right now.

yeah, the bomber is disadvantageous if it blows up 2 town. i do not think it’s worth it. especially if a scum player blows up an established town player with them.

[stungun0404]

say you pick 2 scum and 1 town to give it to. you lose 3-4 town + 2 scum? that's..... sensational?

say you pick 3 town, you lose 3-6 townies who need to die for you to sort the rest of the list, plus 0-3 scum depending literally on how many scum are in the lynchpool

this is by far the cleverest idea I've ever had mechanically and stungun can prolly back me up that when I have mechanical ideas they're usually

(though I was scum that time and I can't think of a way scum benefits from literally removing the lynchpool from the game LMAO)

idk if that works though. i really don’t think it will benefit town to potentially lose a ton of townplayers when we have our poe pool set. i just think there are better ways we can handle this, like with the tracker power that is available apparently next day phase. it’s better to be safe than sorry imo

[stungun0404]

a bunch of bulletproof trackers will be awfully hard for scum to kill....

[stungun0404]

a bunch of bulletproof trackers will be awfully hard for scum to kill....

Tracker doesn’t make them harder to kill.

They can be BP or track not both.

i would not know that b/c i have not had a power yet, lol.

but that makes more sense!

[stungun0404]

it completely depends on just how the power works and who we trust to let take it

like i think it would be safest to put it in the hands of the slot that we trust the most, but that could still be scum, like maybe theta alpine

[stungun0404]

zmuffinman’s slot had a very early wagon push by a handful of sketchy players on d1 running contrary to titus AND numbers wagon. it is unlikely theta’s slot is scum, but possible

[stungun0404]

do you think there were 3 main scum wagons that day? i don’t

[stungun0404]

When we talk about "free" kills with the bomb, imagine if Titus had bomb yesterday. We were <12 hours from deadline, Titus could have just blown up Math/Sakura and suddenly we've got a couple of hours to get another lynch done or our leader is on the chopping block overnight.

very good loophole to point out

this is a potential trouble of the bomb plan

[stungun0404]

say you pick 2 scum and 1 town to give it to. you lose 3-4 town + 2 scum? that's..... sensational?

say you pick 3 town, you lose 3-6 townies who need to die for you to sort the rest of the list, plus 0-3 scum depending literally on how many scum are in the lynchpool

actually I liked this math

yeah, we just have to have a clear that whoever wants it and takes it MUST FOLLOW THROUGH WITH IT or they are lynched no matter what

[stungun0404]

*have it be clear

[stungun0404]

and i am going to volunteer kokichi as one of the main bombing targets, because his slot is probably a scum slot

[stungun0404]

... but what if nancydrew has been deepwolfing us all along? does that factor in?

too much of a risk to have locktown slots suicide bomb

[stungun0404]

ok, i am down with the plan! i will take a one for one, but would prefer to use it on a slot i find scummy

[stungun0404]

istg if drixx is scum though...

fa, sakura, and math are all townier overall than drixx imo

[stungun0404]

we can actually do it in a lower scale. we don't need to make 3 people detonators. we can go with 1 mid tier player or something like that to detonate some scummy player

i can agree with this resolution; honestly it makes it harder for scum to maneuver their way thru our power talks and townblock the longer this game goes.

[stungun0404]

i slight townleaned on you earlier, gamma lol; so yes it is natural for me to start positively. i never explicitly said i scumleaned on you

[stungun0404]

Honestly tho, this post has been bothering me a lot:

Btw general Cerb thoughts

pm

FA's list should be Drixx and Shiro, and that's it nobody else.

Nos might be town, and math might also be town. However, if he thinks that if he was killed based on expectations people then randomidgets slot is a likely suspect, as are Drixx and Titus to a lesser extent.

He also notes that the kill strategys so far have been really good since scum go for broadly townread targets by the leader but not the obvious choice.

Can someone please tell me if im overthinking it? Cerb had a 75% town read on Titus and a 99% town read on Drixx, but idk if this means that there's a connection between scum!Titus and Drixx or im just getting paranoid.

i do not think cerb advocates drixx getting a pr if he somehow thought drixx was scum

[stungun0404]

You need to learn to townhunt, every time I see you sort someone they come up scum.

what? i have been townhunting like hella

check out my stance on sando yesterday, my stance on fa, my stance on mathblade, my stance on toranaga, my stance on sakura hana, my stance on drixx and my stance on nancydrew and the evolution of all of them.

sakura, sando, and fa in particular i have made strong cases for being town. they are all in my iso, unless you want me to dig them up

[stungun0404]

the people in my PoE, with a slight exception of nosferatu and maybe theta’s predecessor zmuffinman, really have not made posts that make me go “hey, this slot is definitely town.”

p-edit: Sando was NOT obvtown to the majority yesterday when i took a hard stance on him being town

[stungun0404]

in fact, the majority thought he was probably scum...

[stungun0404]

You need to learn to townhunt, every time I see you sort someone they come up scum.

what? i have been townhunting like hella

check out my stance on sando yesterday, my stance on fa, my stance on mathblade, my stance on toranaga, my stance on sakura hana, my stance on drixx and my stance on nancydrew and the evolution of all of them.

sakura, sando, and fa in particular i have made strong cases for being town. they are all in my iso, unless you want me to dig them up

Yeah but they're obvtown and you didn't need to sort them like you're doing rn

and you are by extension saying everyone in that pool is obvtown to you. interesting.

where are you townhunting, exactly? i cannot remember you making town statements on any players in my poe pool yourself.

[stungun0404]

i never explicitly said i scumleaned on you

really because that's the conclusion you seem to be reaching
also please address the fact you missed my explanation for finding Katsuki's post restriction scummy

i had to go hard-digging to find this lol.

but "because it excuses a lack of readable content" is that right? i think to an extent that can be applicable, however it may also be a ploy town could make to avoid being a nk option if they both a). have good reads and b). people know they have good reads. this would be plausible given that katsuki kept her vote on titus all of d3, but then again it is kinda strange in context that that happened, and she ended up first on the wagon. what made katsuki so dead certain titus was scum?

[stungun0404]

Hi everyone, just got back from my trip a few hours ago.

Anyone care to catch me up? I left before EOD 3, if that helps.

I am also extremely exhausted and sleep deprived. Lol.

Reposting since everyone has ignored this so far.

apologies, i caught nero cain up, but hadn't referred you to several of my posts -- which should give you plenty of catchup material: 7637, 7639, and 7642 explain at least in part why we are pushing toog this day phase, along with 7029, 7507, 7510, 7511 and 7512 is our main concern (no clear counterwagon to toogeloo), further 7562 and 7583 piles on to the toogeloo scum case

mathblade, other than myself, has been the other main pusher against toogeloo. we are both currently off the lynchwagon, however, in favor of letting this day phase drag out a bit longer. i however did join the wagon first initially, and mathblade third initially, with the worst joining in the middle of the 2 of us.

here's mathblade's reasons for toog scum. his interest starts in 7040, where he thinks a toog lynch breaks the game open. 7132 explains why mathblade feels toogeloo is the best lynch, in addition to where his vote was placed on toogeloo.

7596: yeah toogeloo has basically scumclaimed by keeping his vote on himself this day phase. mathblade even explains in 7697 that any counterwagon to toog will feel forced because he is obvscum, and i am starting to agree with that assertion.


and since mathblade is leader, here is his planned pool of players for superpowers:

So I am thinking Sakura Nancy FA Drixx and myself for powers.

It’s pretty much the core block and if you need SS take SS if you need BP take BP.

+ Stungun404

That completes the power list

Then I am thinking Sakura or Drixx for leader.

so, he wants sakura, you nancy, fa, drixx, mathblade himself, and me to have powers. in addition, he is wanting either sakura hana or drixx to be leader next day phase, so we have a plan i believe to have 9 votes in favor of sakura and 7 in favor of drixx.

[stungun0404]

also toog said last day phase he would read the entire game if titus flipped scum, and has not followed through with reading even a slight portion he hadn't read before, so that seems to have more of a scum incentive than town incentive there in the way he used that to defend titus last day phase.

[stungun0404]

You need to learn to townhunt, every time I see you sort someone they come up scum.

what? i have been townhunting like hella

check out my stance on sando yesterday, my stance on fa, my stance on mathblade, my stance on toranaga, my stance on sakura hana, my stance on drixx and my stance on nancydrew and the evolution of all of them.

sakura, sando, and fa in particular i have made strong cases for being town. they are all in my iso, unless you want me to dig them up

What is your current stance on on all of them? I’m not reading 300+ pages to find that out.

conftown: obviously myself in my view, so stungun
locktown by my gameread level: frozen angel --> no sense in titus trying to brainwash her power role selections if they are scum together, in addition to her adamantly batting at the suggestion of only 2 players getting powers last day phase when if she was scum that would be a serious go-to-plan for her to consider.
near locktown: sando and sakura hana
heavily town-spewed: mathblade, toranaga
heavy townleans (80-89% confident --> so anything above this is 90% plus -- i am most open to being wrong about toranaga from the higher pool, however): drixx, nancydrew39

[stungun0404]

our townblock is very solid at this moment in time, so it's allowing for little room for scum to maneuver, which is a definite positive!

[stungun0404]

you know what, actually i am liking mathblade to move into the pool with sakura and sando after a lot of what has went down today

so: fa, sando, sakura hana, and mathblade are pretty much my pool of “they can’t possibly be scum” this game

[stungun0404]

oh and also of note @nancydrew, theta alpine replaced zmuffinman and nero cain replaced katsuki

[stungun0404]

I never saw nancy scum but this is way more purer than her last town game I saw. i admit. I really want to know what did she do night 2.

@nancy, frozen angel wants to know what you did night 2 with your action

[stungun0404]

if you think it’s in town’s best interest not to reveal, then don’t though

[stungun0404]

also toog said last day phase he would read the entire game if titus flipped scum, and has not followed through with reading even a slight portion he hadn't read before, so that seems to have more of a scum incentive than town incentive there in the way he used that to defend titus last day phase.

Well I hard scumread molla and Toog’s behaviour in this game has been blatantly anti-town. Picking someone who fakeclaimed a guilty on Sando for leader - against majority consensus. Scumreading a player everyone reads as obvtown without bothering to ISO them. Becoming defensive when challenged on sorting people based on associative reads and then there’s the self-voting and the constant expression of contempt for the game. He’s either really really badtown or open wolfing. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i agree. he didn’t even townread nos when he entered the game; he voted him for this reasoning according to toog’s 4029: “I voted for Nosferatu last night to be leader. I voted for him entirely on the basis of being someone I know and him being on the scum lynch and off the town lynch only. I have not read anything else in the game outside of the rules, vote counts, and those two ISOs.”
whereas, i voted ankamius when i replaced because she was first on the playerlist alphabetically i found her to be hella town after finding a post from brassherald that i did not see scum making, and ank’s iso upheld a town perspective.

this is a lazy reasoning for a vote; scum might want to distance on the scum lynch but stay off a town mislynch. you are going to vote someone AS the leader of the town based off that — that is a weak foundation for someone being town enough to lead the town! apparently he did not even have NOS IN HIS TOWN SECTION when replacing in. that’s a waste of a vote if town. at least it would look better if he truly townread titus and fa, etc., to vote fa as leader to follow titus. not nos.

i established last day phase that it was super easy for scum to replace-in and refer to vote wagons that lead to scum lynches; especially if distancing was involved. this was what toog did, and clearly titus distanced from numbers and numbers from titus. it is easy to assume right now that toog is scum.

p-edit: lbr, tora + drixx scum team makes sense to none of us, so it easier to assume at least one of them is town for sure.

[stungun0404]

and with that, consider my vote for toogeloo right now in spirit. i think he is at L-3, lemme check real quick

[stungun0404]

lbr = let’s be real @nancy

So what's the consensus scumpool rn?

i can speak for the majority, but i can speak for where i am at. your slot is still in my primary poe pool: gamma emerald, creature, kokichi, toogeloo, the worst, nero cain, and hebichan with theta alpine and nosferatu outside of my thread of focus for today.

[stungun0404]

*can’t speak for the majority

[stungun0404]

right now

toogeloo (6): the worst, toranaga, frozen angel, gamma emerald, toogeloo, theta alpine
gamma emerald (1): nero cain
the worst (1): sando
... i believe that is where we are at

i am on the verge of voting toogeloo here, just want to do a few things first

[stungun0404]

edit: no this is it

toogeloo (6): the worst, toranaga, frozen angel, gamma emerald, toogeloo, theta alpine
gamma emerald (1): nero cain
nancy drew (1): nosferatu
the worst (1): sando

since i think he is scum, i am going to L-2 him. i can unvote if i do not finish what i want to in time and someone else votes him, thus putting him at L-1

[stungun0404]

VOTE: Toogeloo

L-2

[stungun0404]

Don't be. I am not advocating not lynching me, but you all want my thoughts before I die, so I'm trying to make sure you see them. I've stopped caring about actual scum hunting long ago, but I want to make sure that certain food for thought exists and isn't overlooked. I'm still a member of town, what you do with my thoughts is entirely up to you, but it's all better said than unsaid.

People are too judgey of my spot in the game after I've already been established as the slam dunk lynch. Tomorrow it'll probably be someone saying "good riddance, waste of space," ($$$ on ducky here), but who knows, maybe something I've said will at least open a new avenue of thought for someone.

a lack of scumhunting is proscum, not protown. therefore you are probs scum

[stungun0404]

Cause he's probably opportunistic scum.

i really do think scum would probs be more concerned about that than town, especially since he has been in it...

[stungun0404]

this can be our vote plan

sakura voters: toranaga (?), nancy drew 39 (?), sando (?), drixx (?), stungun, frozen angel (?), nosferatu (?), gamma emerald, tw (?)

drixx voters: math, sakura, nero cain (?), kokichi (?), hebichan (?), theta alpine (?), creature (?)

@the worst, do not forget to vote!

[stungun0404]

fine edit

sakura voters: toranaga (?), nancy drew 39 (?), sando (?), drixx (?), stungun, frozen angel (?), nosferatu (?), gamma emerald, hebichan

drixx voters: math, sakura, nero cain (?), kokichi (?), theta alpine (?), creature (?), tw (?)

we’ll just go ahead and move a scumpool member over to drixx

[stungun0404]

i’m kinda liking creature, toogeloo, the worst, and kokichi as the main 4 scumpool atm, hmm... want to throw this out there before night phase!

one of them has to be town, i am just not sure which at this moment. what if kokichi is town? maybe creature-toog-tw is scum? tw voted creature to start this day phase, then transitioned over to toogeloo with no problem, hmm.

[stungun0404]

ok, @mathblade, but creature is in territory where he’ll have to be obvtown pretty soon or he is scum with all this poe magic we have.

@nancy: because we’re trying to use the votes to hunt for scum

[stungun0404]

we can split 9-7, if sth goes wrong then scum probably interfered with the votes in some manner or another

[stungun0404]

i’m kinda liking creature, toogeloo, the worst, and kokichi as the main 4 scumpool atm, hmm... want to throw this out there before night phase!

Hahaha weren't you the one saying I was obvious town yesterday?

you haven’t upheld your end of the bargain. times change and so do stances. were you here last day phase at all when i lead the lynchwagon against a scum member - titus?

i’ve already addressed anyway that was an impetuous read because of the pressure to town players i previously put on myself, lmao.

idk wtf your alignment is, but you’re in my main PoE pool at this point because largely i have heard little from your slot in recent times.

if not you, scum team is likely toog-tw-creature among the remaining players imo.

[stungun0404]

How does Toog + hebi + the worst team feel?

possible

[stungun0404]

@nero: the mini case i made.

1-9 -- why the different style of read list?

Pls no reviving jokes after death mafia

VOTE: 123456789 if I wasn't already

sheeps main lynch wagon on scum player

ooo someone else isn't liking zMuffle

VOTE: zMuffin

sheeps sando

VOTE: Sando

my brain feels like its full of nails



pedit: too much information

if you feel like your brain is full of nails in trying to comprehend a player being scum, then why vote and thus encourage their wagon to pick up steam?

VOTE: stungun0404

no attached reason, but immediately follows mathblade

i mean these votes/progressions are just... strange. they come off as very scummy; i’d like to see more original insight from tw on some players being scummy/towny.

[stungun0404]

he also sheeped on toog wagon i think today iirc

[stungun0404]

VOTE: Toogeloo

yep

[stungun0404]

i’ve already established i have been townhunting a lot @tw, lol. did you not pay attention to yesterday? i had already established 7 players outside of myself as 80%+ confidence townreads

and also nosferatu i am pretty sure is town as of today. like about 75% sure, but not enough to where he is completely eliminated from my scumpool. i just like how nosferatu entered the game having seen it myself now after replacing-in for chickadee, and immediately hopping off a possible town mislynchwagon in zmuffinman which had 6 votes at the time. this would only not hold weight if theta and nos are partners together imo, and i do not believe that is the case.

[stungun0404]

the quality of your townhunting has dropped tho lol like your case on me is "I don't understand it must be scum"

want spoilers?

how exactly? the remaining players in my poe pool are not exactly obvious town, and i believe everyone can agree with that including yourself. i gave reasoning for frozen angel to be locktown earlier this day phase when i did not have to, and i also gave a hardtown read to toranaga for his interactions with titus. so i don’t get what the beef is here for you nor gamma.

[stungun0404]

@tw, @gamma where are all of your town stances right now?

because for as much as you guys are complaining about my town stances, i have taken 9 as of this day phase and last that apply right now:
locktown: fa
near locktown: sando, sakura hana, mathblade
heavy duty town: toranaga
heavy townlean: drixx, nancydrew39
likely town: nosferatu, theta alpine —> both of these derived from a quick vca lookover.

so if you think i’m not taking enough stances, then help me out here sorting the other players!

[stungun0404]

the one thing that concerns me @tw, about your gameplay is it does not seem like you are focused on scumhunting on your own terms :p

you have sheeped a lot of reads, but you have not taken many groundbreaking stances yourself on players being scum to my memory. so that’s probably what’s giving me a slimy feeling

my gut wants to say gamma emerald is town... i’m not getting that same feeling with tw

[stungun0404]

even if say 3 scum get picked for powers and stall and let's say the rest of the plan ends up nuking 6 townies

we're in 9v3 and lynch to victory!

bad math though, you are off 1


we currently have 17 players = 14 vs. 3; so it would be 8 vs. 3 and this is discounting any scum flips before then.

[stungun0404]

but i’m kinda pro the suicide bomb plan. if nothing else, i think it will make the game very interesting very fast

[stungun0404]

it makes up for no dayvig ability

hope we get another scumflip with toog here! because then it’s a given that we’re on the right track

[stungun0404]

you guys notice that titus is on the sando wagon, and that sando is on the worst wagon? which one looks more like scum just trying to survive? correct answer: titus!

Did you notice that Titus was voting Sando before there even was a real counter wagon, and that Sando voted Titus as well? Like, first two wagons of the day were just counter wagons to each other.

Titus isn't voting to survive, stop painting Picasso's.

when you need that reason to believe toog scum —> check this post out! “stop painting picassos”—> why did toog stick up for titus here, but did not stick up for anyone else the entire day phase?

is toog currently L-2?

[stungun0404]

why is creature town though? like he just that overall icky feeling to me where i can’t townread him just like in past scum games

sando is more obvtown than creature imho

[stungun0404]

*has that icky feeling

[stungun0404]

i also haven’t been wrong at any point yet this year on townreads that i know of

so if we’re going by that math, my earlier townread on kokichi, nero cain’s slot at one point, townlean on creature, townread of theta alpine, and townlean of gamma emerald, townlean on nosferatu

leaves... the worst, hebichan, and toogeloo. interesting

[stungun0404]

i’m kinda liking creature, toogeloo, the worst, and kokichi as the main 4 scumpool atm, hmm... want to throw this out there before night phase!

Hahaha weren't you the one saying I was obvious town yesterday?

you haven’t upheld your end of the bargain. times change and so do stances. were you here last day phase at all when i lead the lynchwagon against a scum member - titus?

i’ve already addressed anyway that was an impetuous read because of the pressure to town players i previously put on myself, lmao.

idk wtf your alignment is, but you’re in my main PoE pool at this point because largely i have heard little from your slot in recent times.

if not you, scum team is likely toog-tw-creature among the remaining players imo.

LOL Titus was literally confirmed scum Day 2 but was leader so we couldn't do anything. Dont take credit for that.

excuse me? she was not confirmed scum because there was so much resistance to her lynchwagon yesterday when i advanced my case. what are you talking about?

[stungun0404]

sando, katsuki/now nero cain slot, and creature were all serious counterwagons to titus and all had more than 5 votes each. if she is confscum, that does not happen

[stungun0404]

actually no i had hebi as a townlean at one point so i am guaranteed to be wrong at some point in this game, ugh

but i’d swear my hard townreads will not be wrong

[stungun0404]

but i think i also said that when trying to poe players, so idk if that was really substance backed

[stungun0404]

excuse me? she was not confirmed scum because there was so much resistance to her lynchwagon yesterday when i advanced my case. what are you talking about?

Re read day 2 then. Pretty much unanimous that she was scum.

i’d rather not. i did not enter the game as a replace-in until d3, so i really can’t reread that day phase. it would be reading it for the first time.

all i can speak about is the amount of stated and unstated resistance when i was scum casing her last day phase that i encountered.

i stuck up for sando who i felt was a mislynch and he had made it all the way to L-2 while titus had only like 3 or 4 votes. so i kept redirecting attention there as i found scummier stuff from titus, and eventually the wagons got even, then some titus backers tried to get a katsuki lynchwagon going and once titus got more votes, a last minute creature wagon formed.

which brings us to this day phase. toogeloo was one of those sketchy players that went from sando to katsuki to creature last day phase, even with titus apparently being as you stated “obvscum”. if she’s obvscum, there should not have been that much resistance right?

[stungun0404]

@kokichi, why did you start the last day phase out on the sando mislynch wagon if titus was obvscum to you?

that if anything is a heavy strike against you

[stungun0404]

need some more sortables for anyone in my possibly scumpool specifically, so

@creature, if you had to townread someone from my poe pool of 9 players, who would that be? and why?

i’ll skip gamma emerald atm because he’s got a question that he’s planning to answer tomorrow i believe

@hebichan, can you substantiate/backup your townread of the worst please when you get the chance? i want to see if i can see what you are seeing.

@kokichi, if you had a day vig (or even suicide bomb) power right now, who would you want to use it on and why?

@nero cain, i see you voted gamma emerald —> is there anything in particular that leads you to think gamma emerald is scum?

@nosferatu, this is an interesting train-of-thought —> so if kokichi is scum, what do you think his strategy is for this game? because i do not really think i grok one myself. and after thinking it over do you feel he is more likely scum or town?

@theta alpine, can you iso hebichan since they have a relatively short iso and tell me if you think they are likelier to be town or scum?

@the worst, if there is anyone in our current scum pool outside yourself that you would bet the game on being town, who would that be, if anyone? and why?

@toogeloo, if town — why do you feel it’s conducive voting yourself while possibly cutting the trails of info we get? also, what’s your impression on nero cain/katsuki’s slot? if scum, feel free not to answer.

[stungun0404]

@the worst, if there is anyone in our current scum pool outside yourself that you would bet the game on being town, who would that be, if anyone? and why?

Doubt I'd bet the game on anything rn. Sando is probably town tho ig. Who else is in the pool?

pretty much from the overall pool: toranaga, nancydrew, stungun (including myself because i have been voted by kokichi and a few concerns have been raised about me)...

then there’s the pool of nosferatu, gamma emerald, hebichan, creature, kokichi, nero cain, theta alpine and toogeloo

[stungun0404]

@nero cain, i see you voted gamma emerald —> is there anything in particular that leads you to think gamma emerald is scum?

It's just meta/gut. Like I just feel like he's not being as active and forceful as the town Gamma I've seen.

he’s been a tad aggressive i think at times, but i do generally agree that he has been a bit in the background.

[stungun0404]

anybody have a case for gamma emerald town that they can back up?

[stungun0404]

Nero's top five: creature, Gamma, Kokichi, hebi, and Drixx
stunguns top five: nosferatu, gamma emerald, hebichan, creature, kokichi

edit, no that was not put in order for me, let me fix that! nosferatu is actually in my likely town pool, but it’s still possible nosferatu could be scum so i simply referred to nos in my response to tw of my scum pool

for me it’s kokichi, the worst, creature, gamma emerald, and hebichan for game solve after toog! no particular order

[stungun0404]

so just swap out nos for the worst and you got it!

[stungun0404]

creature is looking townier after having reread his iso and seen how interested he seems to be in gamesolving... i’m not so sure that will be the first push i make next day phase.

[stungun0404]

@creature: what made you personally remove sando from your pool though?

[stungun0404]

a kokichi lynch tomorrow sounds zesty.

[stungun0404]

ducky, you’re supposed to be scumhunting

[stungun0404]

@mathblade: you forgot about nosferatu. where does nos stand for you atm?

[stungun0404]

Yeah, im 100% sure scum!Titus would tell me Creature is town because she has a non busing meta, mhm.

Like she got real annoyed by the fact that I thought she was busing.

except she bussed numbers d1, we have already established :-/

[stungun0404]

catching up!

@nero: tbf, drixx may have been slightly more inclined to TR Titus because Titus voted for Drixx as leader on D1–> not that this should be suggestive of anything, but it is worth noting.


1832 incorporates a reason to at least townlean on drixx. it is a protown suggestion from Drixx — taking initiative with a plan to order votes. idk if he followed up on it, but if he did that would lead to even more of a pro-town suggesting iso. i remember in a previous game i suggested a similar plan to what he did as town with having someone trusted order the votes so that scum has less wiggle room available. this does not necessarily make him town, but it is more of a pro-town plan that he suggested.

I've ISO'd toogeloo and I'm fairly confident it's town

his titus read seems genuine, he attached himself hard with someone that was doomed to eventually flip after d1, and his behaviour this gameday is absolutely genuine and never something I ever saw a wolf do well. he is doing the self voting sacrifice routine with some of the most genuine tone I've come across this game. it shouldn't be the lynch just because it defended titus. shiro defended titus. cerb defended titus.

his FA read is fine, too. probably wrong, but not bad.

i mean, it’s possible he’s terribly offbeat town, but i’m still liking the odds of toog scum relative to several other players that remain.

[stungun0404]

I don’t have hypocrisy to address or if I do I don’t understand it try explaining it again and I will respond tomorrow

You do. You are town reading Creature b/c you believe that Titus would not vote her scumbuddy yet that doesn't apply to me.

you are also scum reading me basely solely on the reason that I'm suspicious of Drixx. Yet Creature also suspects Drixx and thats not scummy from him.

actually a solid point; titus voted her scum partner numbers out on d1 by being 4th on numbers wagon. why wouldn’t titus do the exact same thing with creature?

and i think creature’s tendency of being less wordy and the fact he is not voting drixx is precisely why mb does not take that as an attack lol.

————————————-

creature's ISO is literally the wolfiest thing I've read this year

How do you feel about Math hard town reading that?

idk. the creature read makes me feel unsettled. the drixx read not so much. and when i am unsettled with other players townreads, that player tends to flip scum, so that may be telling regarding creature’s alignment in that i cannot bring myself to townread him right now, but others can

i almost want to take a suicide bomb and use it on him if i can. i would not mind doing that tbch

[stungun0404]

[quote="In post 8343
Poor Math. XD

they're fine. but the way they're seeing the game and the stuff they're pushing is pretty unlikely to be good reads.

math sees the game too mechanically. toogeloo started a counterwagon to a wolf he was townreading, and that mistake is the basis for the whole scumread. he is also conditionally clearing creature for nothing creature did, but rather because titus pushed and voted him when he was the only available counterwagon.

that creature is up the neck on his scum meta is irrelevant for math, but it should not be irrelevant to us.

just go read creature's ISO. it's empty. this can't live because of whatever math thinks.[/quote]
the biggest beef i have with toog’s play is i sense an utter contrast to his townplay in a recent game i was in, where i was easily able to townread when i was scum hunting for other scum. that easiness has not translated at all into this game, and that concerns me re: his alignment. if anything, he seems a lot scummier to me

why wouldn’t town toog be interested in reevaluating the game after being dead-wrong on scum!titus and promising to do so if titus flipped scum? i would be interested in completely reevaluating in the instance a town titus flip happened. so i don’t understand how his interest just dwelled like that. and how he had a townlean on fa with titus there yesterday, and now suddenly fa is gut scum after a titus flip? seems non-sequitur to me.

[stungun0404]

One of strengths as town is my gut. I have a degree in child psychology, and that may help a bit as well, but I feel like I have some really decent instincts.

One of my weaknesses is that I'm fairly uncharismatic and leading lynches isn't really my forte lol.

also, from a recent pt where toog said he has really a good gut instinct as town

so for me to believe toog is town here, he has to a). have been horribly off-the-mark regarding titus b). have gone back on a town gut lean on FA after titus scum flip which spewed fa as town, and c). believe to toog to be completely uninterested in scumhunting this game.

easier solution: toog is scum.

[stungun0404]

@tw, @gamma where are all of your town stances right now?

because for as much as you guys are complaining about my town stances, i have taken 9 as of this day phase and last that apply right now:
locktown: fa
near locktown: sando, sakura hana, mathblade
heavy duty town: toranaga
heavy townlean: drixx, nancydrew39
likely town: nosferatu, theta alpine —> both of these derived from a quick vca lookover.

so if you think i’m not taking enough stances, then help me out here sorting the other players!

Okay this is my thinking on which slot I feel are solidly town
townblock: Drixx, Frozen Angel, MathBlade, Sakura Hana, Nancy Drew 39 (I forgot the sixth person)
townreads: Creature, Toranaga, Sando
townreads conditional on Toog scumflip: Theta Alpine, Nero Cain
thank you for bringing this up again stun

no problem, but


@ i forgot the sixth person, can’t you just decipher that from the player list?

explain townread of creature. you were scumreading both hs and creature when i asked you about the slot yesterday. what has changed there?

how is either of theta alpine or nero cain town-spewed with toog scumflip?

i don’t understand how you are gathering some of these reads; the progressions seem slightly strange—and the same thing seems to be the basis of why you are not townreading me right now. not necessarily scummy, just strange with a hint of hypocrisy.

and what made you personally townread drixx? or nancydrew?

[stungun0404]

it’s kinda curious when you scumread creature last day phase but townread him now, but you townread me over my post on creature but i am nowhere in your town pool today

and then you go and get on me for stance inconsistency

[stungun0404]

and yeah he tried his best to make us feel bad about lynching titus without adding anything valuable in defense of her. I was rereading those posts yesterday.

how does any of that making any sense to you as genuine content?

while directing attention to my analysis methods, which correctly tunneled scum. why wouldn’t town toog just focus on hunting scum, and not on criticizing my analysis processes upon replacing-in? what town motive is there to that laserbeam focus upon the other replace-in?

@toranaga, re: 8357: it is scum-indicative because he did not look for a townleader to lead town (which you should read the mechanics before picking anyway as town), unlike my slot which voted ankamius who i felt was pretty much guaranteed to be town after iso’ing brassherald and ank. idc if i am beating a dead horse rn, but i am just making my point here.

8358: yeah but town!toog replaces in, acknowledges the evidence we have against titus, and defends her anyway. no, i am not seeing this being genuine. especially when the interactions between titus and numbers were nai and if anything looked disingenuous to me.

i mean, i feel the difference between how myself and toog went about picking leaders upon replacing in is the difference between town and scum replacing in for slots.

i think toog’s motivation would be higher as town than scum here.

8371: except numbers was counterwagon to titus d1, and there were already multiple votes on creature, so i really do not think we can town spew him directly from titus. you guys should trust me on this because i was right about titus not being town spewed from numbers last day phase, in spite of titus still getting
defended by toog as being town and not scum. creature is definitely not clear town. don’t make that mistaken assumption.

@toranaga: what is unreasonable is how part of his decision for voting nos was based off avoiding a town mislynch wagon but voting out titus. scum would do that any day of the week if they could. next, he notes the town mislynch wagon, but later on supposedly does not know myloninja was dead when he was that town mislynch wagon? i choose not to believe this!

[stungun0404]

*saw that town mislynch wagon

[stungun0404]

Speaking of.
I recall that yesterday at some point I thought Titus was town coz she gave powers to town and not to scum as the leash forced her to do so, Math argued that this is Titus trying to be townread or get in the townbloc. In addition to that Titus was confirmed to have precognition by Math.
Now apparently the logic that Creature is scum leads to the complete opposite when we already knew Titus was scum and telling the truth, and even according to Titus wanting to be "confirmed by Ank" would imply Ank did get a power (but scum killed Shiro anyway so we dont know).

So Titus isnt gamethrowing but apparently gave power to town ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ and got lynched anyway.
Why wouldnt scum!Titus bus creature in an effort to make creature look townier as she was going down?

Omg Titus did have precognition.
Number two Titus said she was town because she gave powers to town
Number three we are pretty damn well sure everyone in the block is town otherwise people in the block would be dead.
Number four Titus does not bus Creature there because then if she succeeeds and Ank even agrees with what she said it only buys time. She gets lynched next day or day after.

This means two scum to go through the rest of the game without powers and without abilities.

What the ever loving fuck?

This feels like Titus 2.0 :/

I have to work like what is this?

umm, she moved back to her own wagon though before creature lynch was serious iirc

[stungun0404]

I'll act as a second flavour mod since someone used a post restriction power on me that forces me to have to post a youtube vid in each post. It's rather obnoxious so I'll probably just make empty flavour posts.

VOTE: Katsuki
This is both impossible/a lie and a scum-motivated post

how was this a scum motivated post?

I won't even bother explaining this one, it comes later in my ISO

it lowkey bothers me that you will not reexplain things and expect people to take their time to dig through a 300+ post iso to find your explanation when you could simply state it again yourself, or refer to the post yourself.
————————————
i’m thinking toog town would possibly be against this suicide bomb plan we have in place if he was heavily against duels until he dueled scum in transformers mafia.

————————————-

@toranaga, 8497 is, uh, incorrect impression. i pushed both toogeloo today and titus yesterday before mathblade seriously pushed either, and mathblade’s serious pushes came after my main ones for both. so technically they would be sheeping Math and I. and i have my own individual reasons for why I townlean nancydrew AND drixx. I have individual reasons for every single one of my reads, so if you call one into question let me know!

[stungun0404]

we should not be faithfully developing reads from whether a person says they will take a suicide bomb and use it, because ultimately they don’t have to follow through with their words

take into account the whole iso before trusting that tbch

[stungun0404]

...Potential scum asks for bomb “Sure that’s fine”
Again if Creature is a wolf scum need me dead to win. If Creature is scum and you are town that is win win for you, you don’t have to deal with me any more. If Creature is town then I survive. I just feel like you’re just tunneling atm.

I have to focus now but seriously. You’re spending all this time bickering about a slot that no matter what will die.

and why does scum need to kill you again?

Because they won’t ever mislynch me. If they don’t kill me they lose.

LOOL

as if you wouldn't ultra bus titus super hardcore like you did as scum with her

there's nothing clearing you

there are a few things in his iso that seemed pretty townie to me

@toog, if there’s scum in FA, Math, Sakura, Nancy, Drixx, stun; it’s definitely drixx or nancy. but it definitely is NOT FA, myself, sakura or mathblade. i could rule those other 3 out entirely with reasonable evidence if necessary. still, neither drixx nor nancy are concerns for me as yet.

and i really tend to think there is not one scum in that pool at all; it’s just a paranoia grab that scum can use to divert us from townblocking correctly imo. we probs have this game down pat. so idk why you feel so certain as to favor one or more scum being in that pool; we shunned titus out of that pool in spite of her attempts to make it in. what makes you think we can’t shun scum out of our main townblock? and also i am in a select few players townblocks (sakura, sando, nancy, maybe mathblade but idk who else).

[stungun0404]

Prodge

is that the best case you got against me? pretty damning reason to leave your vote on me!

———————————
@nero: i got you here shortly

[stungun0404]

@nancy: i really think it benefits us best to keep every alleyway we can open to hunt for scum

if that means voting for 2 different consensus leaders, then that absolutely is important!

we can trace many of the votes back at later dates and trace what went wrong where once we get a valid number of flips

this could be crucial towards finding scum

i say we go for 2 leaders. i’d volunteer myself for the second leader if not drixx if people are ok with that. sakura would obviously still get priority with the votes by like 10-6 or 9-7.... BUT WHY SHOULD WE DARE SHUT DOWN ANY METHODS WE MAY HAVE TO TRACE SCUM JUST BECAUSE WE’RE ALL DEAD CERTAIN THAT SOME PLAYERS ARE TOWN?

fa is another option i would be ok with here, but she has been leader twice already

[stungun0404]

The general idea behind splitting votes was so if scum kills one person they cant just get their own scum leader, the current case for me being solo leader candidate is that im gonna be flat out impossible to kill tonight unless any of the 3 things i mentioned earlier happens.

i really thing refusals to vote from active players/misvotes from active players at this point are scum

so it’s a bit of an accountability track too

i can organize prospective voters here shortly

[stungun0404]

*think

[stungun0404]

how do we track votes, is it public?

no, but we can hound people asking them who they voted on particular nights

——————————————

prospective votes (whoever has expressed doubts about me today could just simply vote for sakura)

proposal: 10-6 if script flips, there’s probably a few scum on sakura’s vote wagon; also we have a solid backup plan in case scum happens to kill sakura somehow. all bases are covered —> this is what we want. we do not know if scum has power negate or any of those unnecessary powers, and have to account for that.

sakura: stungun, mathblade, toranaga, gamma emerald, drixx, hebichan, tw, kokichi, nancydrew, frozen angel
stun: nero cain, creature, nosferatu, sando, theta alpine, sakura

[stungun0404]

nd39, why are you so adamant about shutting this line of discussion down?

[stungun0404]

shall we have a vote for or against double leader?

[stungun0404]

first to 5 wins! how about that

[stungun0404]

nd39, why are you so adamant about shutting this line of discussion down?

I want to ensure Sakura is leader. Sakura’s leadership can only really be jeopardized by vote splitting, if not enough people vote. She was supposed to be leader today but likely lost to voter complacency. I want to prevent that from happening again. What do you find so difficult to understand about that?

i agree, i have wanted sakura to be leader for some time, but also want to account for worst case scenario

key difference: we had a vote tie last day phase planned and thus were not aptly hunting scum because of 4 scum we wanted to split 8-8 on two highly likely town players; this day phase we split 10-6 with clear town leader

[stungun0404]

no nd, 8-8 split last day phase means sakura was not necessarily supposed to beat math

[stungun0404]

Sakura (9): Math, Nancy, Nos, Creature, hebichan, the worst (right?), toogeloo (?), Kokichi (?), Toranaga
Mathblade (9): Sakura, Gamma, FA, stungun, Sando, Drixx (?), Katsuki (?), Shiro (?), zmuffinman’s slot if not modkilled (?)

I feel like I need to quote this every page now >.<

Can i squeeze this in before thread lock?

vote assortment last day phase; please note that i started these suggestions although sakura made one switch from my initial proposal

sakura (9): math, nancy, nos ( primary lynchpool),creature (primary lynchpool), hebichan (primary lynchpool), the worst (primary lynchpool),toogeloo (primary lynchpool), kokichi (primary lynchpool), toranaga

math (9): sakura, gamma (primary lynchpool), fa, stungun, sando, drixx (primary lynchpool?), nero cain’s slot (primary lynchpool), shiro, theta alpine’s slot (primary lynchpool?)

you tell me which pool of voters is sketchier: 6 vs. 4 primary lynchpool on sakura likely means scum on sakura’s vote wagon

between nosferatu, creature, hebichan, the worst, toogeloo and kokichi

i think it’s toog, creature, tw, or kokichi....

[stungun0404]

yeah from the POV of like an ~holistic solve~ I think we should be working under the assumption drixx is town

Why?

would it make you feel comfortable if we chose 10 relatively townread players and placed them on sakura’s voting wagon,

and the other 6 potential lynch options on either drixx or i —> except sakura ofc

and split it that way for compromise? that would make it hard for scum to fuck with

[stungun0404]

contingency

why 3? there is a very very very slim chance that the 3 are all scum together, or someone in there is scum

unless we make them very strong townreads, like sakura, mathblade, and frozen angel for example

[stungun0404]

sakura is pretty much leader, so it does not really matter counterwagon, but i think i’d be fair b/c a). i am in mb’s power pool, and b). drixx concerns have been quite prevalently voiced today —> for those 2 reasons these 2 should be fine. and also because i lead the titus lynchwagon, and sakura is unlikely to die

Sakura: mathblade, nancydrew, toranaga, stungun, frozen angel, sando, gamma emerald, creature, drixx, theta alpine

stungun: sakura, kokichi, nero cain, the worst, hebichan, nosferatu

is there anyone with serious objections to this plan?

[stungun0404]

fa has been leader twice tho; and i already balloted myself earlier lol after sakura suggested me as a potential option

[stungun0404]

Pedit: why the fuck are you the backup leader choice? bahahaha just make it FA lmao

do you think i am scum?

@sakura: i agree nero looks towny, but he wanted to vote me so i put him on my vote wagon

[stungun0404]

so if i eliminate nero from main pool of focus, along with earlier nos/theta alpine

that leaves... gamma emerald, creature, hebichan, kokichi, toogeloo, the worst

gut removes gamma emerald

leaves.... creature, hebichan, kokichi, toog, the worst

i don’t even know where i stand from that point forward tbch

[stungun0404]

creature-koki-toog?

[stungun0404]

fine. why don’t we nominate fa again @mathblade?

are you really more certain drixx is town than fa at this point?

[stungun0404]

you're a pretty weak townread @stun

prolly rather just thrown my vote to someone I'm hard tring if I can't vote Sakura ngl

at least the core townblock townreads me though, right? just the scumpool does not strong townread me at this point

and you are still there... so is gamma emerald... so is hebichan... so is kokichi. so is literally all the opposition against hard townreading me right now and even possibly scumreading me is firmly entrenched in my and consensus scumpool. and i feel like sakura hana and sando have backed it up a little.

creature townreads me from the non-townblock, hebi supposably “wanted to townread me” at one point hut never did

[stungun0404]

tw - fine since you asked creature this. why should i townread you this game? what have you done that is positively outside your scumrange?

[stungun0404]

Sakura: mathblade, nancydrew, toranaga, stungun, frozen angel, sando, gamma emerald, creature, drixx, the worst
fa: sakura, kokichi, nero cain, hebichan, nosferatu, theta alpine

how about this? simple!

[stungun0404]

need some more sortables for anyone in my possibly scumpool specifically, so

@creature, if you had to townread someone from my poe pool of 9 players, who would that be? and why?

i’ll skip gamma emerald atm because he’s got a question that he’s planning to answer tomorrow i believe

@hebichan, can you substantiate/backup your townread of the worst please when you get the chance? i want to see if i can see what you are seeing.

@kokichi, if you had a day vig (or even suicide bomb) power right now, who would you want to use it on and why?

@theta alpine, can you iso hebichan since they have a relatively short iso and tell me if you think they are likelier to be town or scum?

@toogeloo, if town — why do you feel it’s conducive voting yourself while possibly cutting the trails of info we get? also, what’s your impression on nero cain/katsuki’s slot? if scum, feel free not to answer.

how am i not surprised by the pool of players that did not answer my questions from yesterday?
which of you are town lol? you are not throwing me a bone here

[stungun0404]

holy crap! time flies

[stungun0404]

I have a solidified gut scum read on Theta Alpine. Lots of bells and whistles going off.

Stun, after my flip, check Theta Alpine / Katsuki's ISOs. You got this!

absolutely—if you flip town! though my gut is screaming opposite as of now regarding theta

i think you mean zmuffinman and not katsuki, as nero cain replaced in for katsuki and theta for zmuffinman.

[stungun0404]

actually, thinking about the bomb plan

if town keeps going off on town, then that would be problematic in the long haul

scum would be less prone to going off with the bombs i think, at least as far as following thru with it goes.

[stungun0404]

what if we just plan one or two suicide bombs that will give us a fair amount of information? like having theta alpine use it on a player like having theta use it on... kokichi
and the worst use it on... hebichan?

[stungun0404]

you know, town players probably should not go for the bomb when there are more protown powers available tomorrow, drixx has a point there

[stungun0404]

I am going to bed now Drixx. If you see any issue with this or have any other questions please speak up about it.

I think the safe spot is 4 bombs but can check my notes later.

Colored Fruit Vendor
Petrification
Reflexive Power Mimicry (in other words you get hit with a power you get it)
Power Echo
Self Detonation (available during the day)
Tracker

Still at work people

upon reflection, idk if those bombs would be more useful then say tracker abilities which tons of town players could all together claim and thus try to trace who performs the nk. like, that could be a fucking brilliant plan given our current PoE pool. all town goes for the tracker ability and traces players they find suss.

like, we could plan on tracking a variety of players (maybe even outright plan in the thread six different players), come back, and if those we tracked DO NOT account for the nk or somebody is killed within the pool, then we know that pool of players does not conclusively encompass all scum within—or else scum killed a player that tracked them. there is thus a scum member beyond that group of players we track.

this plan is especially effective if there are only 2 scum remaining after day.

[stungun0404]

the only caveat of that plan is that we’d have to choose town players that are not utilizing the bulletproof vest, right?

[stungun0404]

yuck. that is a definite neg we can talk about next day phase

like, if we choose that plan, we just give it to obvtown period.

because scum could try clearing one another

[stungun0404]

i absolutely am of the opinion that the players should discuss who they target in the thread before suicide bombing a player, because ideally we could use this as much to town’s benefit as we can and discussing things before using the bombs can help us to eliminate possible oversights.

i’m just a little bit weary of how this all goes down having just finished a scum game in transformers mafia where either i laughed my ass off as town kept duelling one another, or else my scum team would win the duels (my team won 2 of them)! so like it’s optimal as town to discuss things before following through with them —> i want this key reminder to stick

[stungun0404]

Just for the record: Titus did not put me on the team or give me powers or anything. I think a town!Titus would have given me a power choice 99 times out of a 100 given the game state at end of day and the very high likelihood that she gets roped today. Especially with Cerb already dead. I also would have expected a scum!Titus to do so as well and try and convince me she's town and to help her avoid getting roped; however, I can also see scum!Titus trying to play at level 2 and take advantage of that expectation by not throwing me a power.

This is actually a pretty good look for drixx tbh

why would scum titus not give scum drixx power or to give him that secretly which would look bad for her. I can't see drixx and titus being a pair

drixx is ALSO confirmed through Toranaga to have used bulletproof last night

I do not see scum making much headway choosing bulletproof, unless they are being super cautious.

[stungun0404]

Sorry for bringing up old stuff and sorry if I'm repeating others I haven't read most of today

I guess I need to go diving on Titus now. I could see her doing this as scum and turning the WiFoM to her favor. I could also see several players in this list who would know putting Titus as leader right now would introduce a ton of confusion. And it has.

I think claims of who you voted for should stop and someone super trusted (FA seems like the best choice) to make an ordered list and have folks claim. There are a few good reasons to do this and the less said about them before we do it the better.

drixx how did you proceed from this post to #2136 (attacking the people who were pushing titus or baiting her as you mentioned)?

Already addressed but perhaps I wasn't clear.

I can scum read someone and literally say that they are essentially lockscum and need to eat rope. I can,

at the same time

, view that person as a friend and even jump into the fray if that person is being personally abused. It's not mutually exclusive.

One thing is solving the game. The other is trying to reign in the incivility which has been slowly building over the years on this site.

So you're saying you had titus as a scum read then?

everybody is saying that they had titus as lockscum read, it’s kinda ridiculous


even kokichi...

but where were they when i had to defuse that sando town wagon to get some votes on titus? they were not on that wagon and this is proveable


so mathblade and i are the only ones that can truly claim having a confident scum read on titus given that 3/4 of the discrediting on titus last day phase was literally came from the 2 of us. and i in particular was the one that was anti-sando wagon...

and yet kokichi bothers to votepark on me today? smh

[stungun0404]

I beleive I was one of the people who made titus lynch certain day 3 and I demand my share of credit for it xd

you joined the lynchwagon with your only vote, you have valid credits

drixx did not vote

kokichi absolutely has no credits here, after voting ONLY sando and katsuki last day phase. and yet she lockscummed titus? smh even more @ that

and i am confident sando is town here, kokichi also voted katsuki/now nero cain’s slot with his other vote and i am thinking that is likely town here

then kokichi only votes me today solely because i flip flopped stances on him. and i know i am town

so exactly what position is kokichi speaking from here? seriously off-the-mark town that does not care? or scum?

because he sure can’t claim to have lockscummed titus, and he is voting one of the players that was the most adamant about the titus lynch yesterday. on what planet do these calculations make sense to town kokichi?