Mini Normal 2024 - Endgame


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Post Post #525 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:23 am

Post by Jackal711 »

VOTE COUNT 1.11


Kop (4) - ejjinami, Irrelephant11, BlueBloodedToffee, Mumble
Tchill13 (3) - Alchemist21, Kop, Lalendra
Mumble (1) - northsidegal
Alchemist21 (1) - Tchill13
DrDolittle (1) - Rei
Irrelephant11 (1) - DrDolittle
Creature (0) -
BlueBloodedToffee (0) -
Nauci (0) -
ejjinami (0) -
northsidegal (0) -
Lalendra (0) -
Rei (0) -

Not Voting: Creature, Nauci

ACTIVITY NOTES:
Lalendra and Irrelephant11 are permanently V/LA on weekends.


With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is Thursday, August 16th at 11:00 am PDT which is in
(expired on 2018-08-16 11:00:00)
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Post Post #526 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:27 am

Post by Tchill13 »

Irrelephant what's your stance on players that scum can use to make it easier for them to win? Do you not feel that those players are tools for scum to use? Essentially a lesser form of a PR for scum.

Can we at least agree that if you were scum you'd want lurkers in lylo?

Why am I scum exactly? Because I'd like to push an easy lynch on a lurker day 1?

Answer all those in order please.
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Post Post #527 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:44 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 522, Tchill13 wrote:Why share all my raisins exactly?why let scum know if I'm on them and why I'm on them?
Because town don't have a PT to discuss these sorts of things? Like huh? Scum already know they're scum so they won't be learning much (except I guess what to avoid in the future, but it's too late to change what they've already done) - in fact they usually start playing worse when they feel caught, making it easier to lynch them.
In post 523, Tchill13 wrote:
In post 518, Irrelephant11 wrote:okay but like, what's the test?

Also agreed with whoever said Nauci is sadly low content lately
As is NSG who I would happily wagon atm

I don't see a case on alchemist so please do elaborate
The test is creating actions and reactions, content on day 1.
Okay, what do you think/how do you read the actions and reactions? You've provided very little of this, especially as pressure has come your way.
Like you said at the beginning of the game that you didn't answer my question as a reaction test. Then you got my reaction, and you said now you know my playstyle, but not my alignment. How does that help? Is it my town playstyle or my scum playstyle? In retrospect it sounds like you already knew I was town and wanted to know how to deal with me. You also didn't provide any thoughts on the other players who reacted then. In every "reaction test" you've done since, you've failed to clear up what the test is FOR, how it helps you sort other players, etc. <--- Makes me think you're not actually trying to sort, because you're scum who doesn't need to sort.
In post 526, Tchill13 wrote:Irrelephant what's your stance on players that scum can use to make it easier for them to win? Do you not feel that those players are tools for scum to use? Essentially a lesser form of a PR for scum.

Can we at least agree that if you were scum you'd want lurkers in lylo?

Why am I scum exactly? Because I'd like to push an easy lynch on a lurker day 1?

Answer all those in order please.
I don't think any player is a "tool". I like to give all players a chance to towntell. You're also conveniently ignoring my point that PRs do a lot of the sorting that you seem to want to use our lynch to do. Without any successful protections, we get
at most
6 lynches this game (if it goes to 3p lylo). I don't care to waste any lynches on someone who's hard to sort just because I'm afraid of a potential lylo (unless townreads and PoE leads me there). It's up to lurkers to play the game; if all the lurkers are town this game and we lose because they're hard to sort then we lost as a team because half the team didn't play. Unfortunate. But I'm also not going to spend every game riding lurkers for lurking if it's not a scumtell for them.

Yes, if I were scum I'd want lurkers in lylo. If I were scum in a game with 5 lurkers, though, I might just line them up as lynches and go down the line, who knows?
You're scummy because you don't want to lynch players you think are scummy, you want to lynch players you think are hard to sort. There are better ways to sort, and lynchbait is called lynchbait
because
they're easy lynches for scum in the info void that is D1.

Also I'm voting Kop (one of the lurkers) while other players are voting you - why do you feel the need to appeal to me so much about this?


I did my best to answer all your questions, I don't think they're in perfect order but there you go
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Post Post #528 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:45 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

@NSG at one point you thought I misunderstood tchill. I thought he wants to lynch lynchbait for being lynchbait, you didn't. Now that he's made it clear that he DOES have an interest in players considered lynchbait, how are you reading him?

@Nauci I need your reads of tchill, kop, and lalendra please

@Kop and Lalendra how are you reading each other? How are you reading alchemist?
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Post Post #529 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:12 am

Post by Tchill13 »

Just because I don't give reads that I have doesn't mean I don't have reads.

If you refuse to deal with lurkers then you're giving scum an easy out.

You way why are they scum. What's scummy about them. That's bad reasoning. Why are they town? What's towny about them? The same can be said.
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Post Post #530 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:20 am

Post by Tchill13 »

Having a debate with you isn't for you only. Others voting me can read that and have their own thoughts.
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Post Post #531 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:26 am

Post by Tchill13 »

To catch scum you have to ask yourself what scum would do or want. They'd usually prefer a group that would allow them to win lylo. Lining up lurkers just to achieve a lynch when you already have a group of players working towards a lynch on your scum team is a lazy and bad idea. So I'd have to say that's not what you're more likely to do as scum in that scenario.

You can't just nk good townies all the time due to protective roles or watcher roles. So that argument is invalid. It wouldn't work like that all the time.

Ik you're newer and I can tell you play with ambition. I'm just trying to show you why you lynch lurkers early. Of course it's not agreed on this site. Actually the opposite is agreed on site wide. I've yet to see a good argument for it though.

Only reason I'm discussing this is because half the game is lurking. Which tells me scum is statistically lurking. Which tells me we will never lynch all scum if we refuse to lynch lurkers because they're not scummy. What If I refuse to vote anyone else other than a lurker because lurkers are not towny? It's the same idea.
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Post Post #532 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:33 am

Post by Tchill13 »

Anyways I'm bogging the thread down. Just trying to show you why I play DAY ONE. THE DAY WITH THE LEAST INFO WE HAVE the way I do.
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Post Post #533 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:37 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I think your argument is a waste of space/time because most players here are willing to lynch (at least some of the) lurkers - they're just also willing to lynch you, and your deflection to "no you have to lynch a lurker d1" isn't even that good of an argument. It goes against site meta anyway, as you acknowledge, so why make it your hill to die on this game?

btw, I think the main reasoning is: If lynching a lurker for being a lurker D1 rarely gets you either a scumflip or useful associatives, why lynch a lurker D1?
Tchill13 wrote:Just because I don't give reads that I have doesn't mean I don't have reads.

If you refuse to deal with lurkers then you're giving scum an easy out.

You way why are they scum. What's scummy about them. That's bad reasoning. Why are they town? What's towny about them? The same can be said.
Any given random player is more likely to be town, so it's not an equal/opposite point.

pedit: yeah well. We agree on that, then.
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Post Post #534 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:39 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 529, Tchill13 wrote:Just because I don't give reads that I have doesn't mean I don't have reads.
Okay, but just because you say you have reads doesn't mean I believe you.
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Post Post #535 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:48 am

Post by Rei »

UNVOTE: dr.do

this vote is pretty much useless now
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Post Post #536 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:52 am

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No any player is just as likely to be town as a lurker that's the damn point, unless your reads are correct 100 percent of the time ON DAY ONE. Site meta is shit. That's why town suck here.

I do have reads. Idc if you believe me.

Rei what's your relation to boris? Like is it actually cousin or what? Lol.
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Post Post #537 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:55 am

Post by Rei »

In post 536, Tchill13 wrote:No any player is just as likely to be town as a lurker that's the damn point, unless your reads are correct 100 percent of the time ON DAY ONE. Site meta is shit. That's why town suck here.

I do have reads. Idc if you believe me.

R
ei what's your relation to boris? Like is it actually cousin or what? Lol.

Of course he's my alpaca cousin! (sadly not my human cousin tho)
let's just say
he's a player i respekt and one of my alpaca fam
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Post Post #538 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:58 am

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The masses believe it so it must be true.
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Post Post #539 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:58 am

Post by Tchill13 »

OK I like that player lol. So I was jw.
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Post Post #540 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:59 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Reallllly done arguing with you about game theory re:lurkers

If you're not going to share reads though please explain how that helps town find scum/read you correctly
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Post Post #541 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:10 am

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It doesn't help town read me correctly. My goal is to find scum and to not be lynched or NK'D.

I haven't been lynched, I'm in no immediate danger of being lynched. I'm scummy so scum shouldn't nk me if I make it past d1 due to my mislynchability. I'm doing my best to set up days 2 and 3, days where we have a higher statistical chance to lynch scum, to be as easy as possible to lynch scum due to eliminating baggage day 1 THAT IS JUST AS LIKELY TO BE TOWN OR SCUM AS THE NEXT PERSON DUE TO A MAJOR LACK OF INFORMATION DAY 1.

Say what you will. Think what you will. I use day 1 to lynch what could be scum tools, not cleared townies these people can actually be scum still. Seems their lurkyness conf towns them. That's how they're treated site wide which is a joke. "Let them show towny essential" they hardly ever do and you're left with too many problems if you haven't been nailing scum.
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Post Post #542 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:13 am

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You don't have to argue game theory with me. The way I play is based on it though. If you disagree with that theory and you're voting me because of it then you're only voting me because of a disagreement in play style. Not because you believe I'm scum.

Do you believe I'm just gonna push lurkers the whole game? Honest question.
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Post Post #543 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:21 am

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If you come into the discussion believing my intent is to deflect or misguide it's not gonna be a fruitful discussion.
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Post Post #544 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:23 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Probably not? idk

Not sure where you got the idea that I'm scumreading you for wanting to lynch lurkers. We've argued about game theory a lot, but I've also made clear that I'm scumreading you because I'm not convinced you're at all trying to find either town or scum - instead, you'd rather simply not be lynched.

I have also not suggested that the lurkers in this particular game should be cleared for their lurkiness - in fact, just the opposite for NSG/Kop. so..?

Rei where are you at/what are you thinking?

pedit: I didn't start this conversation thinking you're here to misdirect or distract, but the longer you have insisted on pushing the idea that the first lynch should be a lurker (rather than, say, try to appeal to other players to lynch whichever lurker you're most scumreading), the more it feels like that is your goal
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Post Post #545 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:24 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

lol not sure how my brain decided you said "distract or misdirect" instead of "deflect or misguide" but same idea I guess
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Post Post #546 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:24 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

I cannot wait to hear your case against Alchemist
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Post Post #547 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:35 am

Post by ejjinami »

on the phone rn
I think I have a rather solid townread on tchill. Like, I'll be really surprised if he flips scum here.
I didn't get to finish the read on him previously, but I will after I manage to snatch the computer from my brother.
I'll also answer the other question, I don't really remember it rn…

But ffs, stop it, this conversation will get you nowhere, your push on tchill is equally useless as his struggles against the site meta. And again, why Kop rather than NSG? (if you already answered that, could you quote it or sth? thx)

@Irre
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Post Post #548 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:41 am

Post by ejjinami »

In post 535, Rei wrote:UNVOTE: dr.do

this vote is pretty much useless now
Who would you want to lynch today?
Do you have any thoughts on Kop, NSG or Alchem?
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Post Post #549 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 9:52 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Yeah... I like his play less the further I go
But he doesn't seem to care?

Which... is a little WIFOM-y but I guess on balance townier.
My scumread has certainly been waning but I didn't want to let up pressure yet. I look forward to your thoughts on him

I think my other question was about alchemist? I don't see what either you or tchill think is scummy about him?

Actually unless NSG has a drastic turnaround before EOD she's my new fav lynch. VOTE: northsidegal

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