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Post Post #1175 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:25 am

Post by Enigma »

In post 1145, Kokichi Oma wrote:In any way how does that help us at all
It's explained in the post you quoted?
In post 1147, GuiltyLion wrote:Irrelephant I agree Enigma/Chickadee interactions are weird but I think most of the scumminess is on Enigma's side

I still don't feel like he's given me like a holistic assessment of who he thinks is town and who he thinks is scum, he's just trying to chop up townreads on a variety of players
I don't see how it is productive to blindly follow other people's town reads? If there is something worth questioning or commenting on, its worth bringing it up? I've been quite disengaged from this game so have been lazy giving read lists - to be honest, there was not much to go on for D1 (and whatever people may think, there is a lot of reaching involved...) and I've been quite busy D2 to read through in detail. Even without a nice summary of list of names, my line of posting should be somewhat obvious as to where I stand on certain players.
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Post Post #1176 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:34 am

Post by Pine »

I kinda want to hardcore flashwagon Enigma here. They’re saying not much with a lot of words, and the non-controversial reads are really pinging me
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Post Post #1177 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:41 am

Post by Enigma »

^and tbh if that ends up happening, when I flip town you are probably town as scum would not be that brash.
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Post Post #1178 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:58 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 1175, Enigma wrote:Even without a nice summary of list of names, my line of posting should be somewhat obvious as to where I stand on certain players.
yo this is bullshit

ofrhz and Prof Fridays have both been getting votes and people supporting their lynch. I just quickly passed through your ISO again and I see no significant commentary or questioning on them at all. No idea what your stance on them is.

and it's not like it's any more clear with regard to the people you HAVE been questioning, primarily myself and Chickadee. Here's what you said about me:
In post 1071, Enigma wrote:Engaging with you because you don't read conf!town to me, and I'm trying to figure out if this is justified and why people have this read.
Outcome: still not likely town, not sure about scum, so null for now
and here's what you said about Chickadee:
In post 1141, Enigma wrote:So I had slight scum read Chickadee for most of today.
These posts sound quite off, I particularly dislike the first two paras of 1128. Though the irrelephant comment is a bit on the opposite - more townie. So ugh, still debating.
like you can't honestly believe that you've made yourself clear about anything. I have no idea who you even plan on voting at this point.
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Post Post #1179 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:22 pm

Post by Enigma »

In post 1145, Kokichi Oma wrote:In any way how does that help us at all
In post 1147, GuiltyLion wrote:Irrelephant I agree Enigma/Chickadee interactions are weird but I think most of the scumminess is on Enigma's side

I still don't feel like he's given me like a holistic assessment of who he thinks is town and who he thinks is scum, he's just trying to chop up townreads on a variety of players

I'm skimming along at work but haven't had time to think a lot yet so I'll give more detail and thought tonight, but I do want to call out something from PF just now though
In post 1073, Prof Fridays wrote:I don't understand Feysal's being in most people's town block - he's a slight scum read for me, as is Kokichi, with ofhrz as lean scum (and my lynch target of choice today, I think)
In post 1146, Prof Fridays wrote:Not sure why Kokichi is hell-bent on lynching me, though I can't say I scum-read him for it.
what changed with respect to Kokichi here?
Probably a result of limited time and too much rl work.
Tbh the (limited) reasons for people voting ofrhz or PF haven't really stood out for me when catchup reading, rather I just comment on things I feel interesting or worth probing a bit more. So likely wouldn't vote them at night.

Still leaning towards a chickadee vote for myself, though will probably decide at the end of the day seeing how it turns out with the challenge.
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Post Post #1180 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:33 pm

Post by Irrelephant11 »

Btw Guilty finally town-told (I think)! Yay

I’d get on an enigma wagon
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Post Post #1181 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:05 pm

Post by Kokichi Oma »

In post 1180, Irrelephant11 wrote:Btw Guilty finally town-told (I think)! Yay
You're a day late :)
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
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Post Post #1182 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:05 pm

Post by Kokichi Oma »

Yeah I'm ok with Enigma
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
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Post Post #1183 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:15 pm

Post by Enigma »

PSA: This wagon is happening because of me being lazy and not fully engaged with the game, and if I get (mis)lynched this wagon/lynch will not provide useful information for town and will leave town grasping at straws again D3, especially with how it is being coordinated and pushed. It is a small group of vocal (and likely town) actors trying to convince others to jump on.

I suppose I will reiterate since people haven't really commented on my earlier sugegstion: we should be posting scum reads but we should not be actively trying to build a consensus on how to vote (like we did D1) as this allows scum to slip through easily, makes looking for scum coordination harder, and associatives are harder to identify as it becomes sheeping.
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Post Post #1184 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:18 pm

Post by Prof Fridays »

I'm not ok with an Enigma lynch. I plan to vote one of {Chickadee, ofhrz}
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Post Post #1185 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:41 pm

Post by Kokichi Oma »

Lets out townreads instead then
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
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Post Post #1186 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 4:36 pm

Post by Feysal »

Wow. I did not read anything yesterday, and suddenly this happens. I've read up on new posts, but I only have time for some quick replies tonight.
In post 1101, Irrelephant11 wrote:Pine has been playing clueless town most of the game... was this meant to get us to re-think Pine's alignment when he makes this mistake?
No. It was my reason for why we should not have picked numbers yet. Pine took a huge risk doing that, and it could have backfired badly.
In post 1153, GuiltyLion wrote:Like if Irrelephant didn't know whether the day would end or not, he's town. If he's scum then he knew the day
wouldn't
end. So arguing that he's more suspicious because he knew the day
would
end just doesn't make any sense and I'm having a hard time seeing how town-Chickadee would genuinely think that way. Help me out here.
She said that the second number being correct was revealed while she was catching up. I can imagine her noticing that post and finding it suspicious, writing a post about it, seeing in the preview the number was in fact correct, but deciding to leave it in and editing her response.

What troubles me here is the lack of urgency. Irrelephant seems to have dumped everything that was on his mind into the thread, expecting the day to end at any moment. Chickadee shows no indication of having been similarly alarmed.
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Post Post #1187 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:30 pm

Post by Chickadee »

In post 1186, Feysal wrote:Wow. I did not read anything yesterday, and suddenly this happens. I've read up on new posts, but I only have time for some quick replies tonight.
In post 1101, Irrelephant11 wrote:Pine has been playing clueless town most of the game... was this meant to get us to re-think Pine's alignment when he makes this mistake?
No. It was my reason for why we should not have picked numbers yet. Pine took a huge risk doing that, and it could have backfired badly.
In post 1153, GuiltyLion wrote:Like if Irrelephant didn't know whether the day would end or not, he's town. If he's scum then he knew the day
wouldn't
end. So arguing that he's more suspicious because he knew the day
would
end just doesn't make any sense and I'm having a hard time seeing how town-Chickadee would genuinely think that way. Help me out here.
She said that the second number being correct was revealed while she was catching up. I can imagine her noticing that post and finding it suspicious, writing a post about it, seeing in the preview the number was in fact correct, but deciding to leave it in and editing her response.

What troubles me here is the lack of urgency. Irrelephant seems to have dumped everything that was on his mind into the thread, expecting the day to end at any moment. Chickadee shows no indication of having been similarly alarmed.
Irrelephant was also here
when
it happened. I got here mere minutes (like less than 5) of it being revealed. I didn't even have to refresh for it to show up, that's how close the timing was. I just finished catching up and it was already there.

I was more focused on catching up to see what happened.
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Post Post #1188 (ISO) » Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:14 pm

Post by northsidegal »

In post 1132, Chickadee wrote:Can you explain the timing more clearly? Maybe I'm not understanding the issue you're seeing. I literally just got here. It was revealed as I was catching up.
anyways, here's the elaboration i promised:

in essence, it's just not what i consider a town reaction. maybe it's unfair to think of a not-town reaction as a scum one rather than just null, but i'm not sure. either way, when i saw pine do the second pick, i panicked somewhat. in my head i kind of considered that it was already "twilight" so to speak - the idea of the number being right didn't even occur to me at all. maybe it's reaching to say this, but someone catching up, seeing pine do the second pick and not rushing to make whatever posts they were going to make in some sense indicates to me that they might have already known that the day wasn't going to end.
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Post Post #1189 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:30 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1188, northsidegal wrote:in my head i kind of considered that it was already "twilight" so to speak - the idea of the number being right didn't even occur to me at all.
Same. I don't think scum would think to say this. Was already somewhat townreading nsg, but locktowning her now.
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Post Post #1190 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 2:34 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1184, Prof Fridays wrote:I'm not ok with an Enigma lynch. I plan to vote one of {Chickadee, ofhrz}
Why are you not okay with an enigma lynch?
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Post Post #1191 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:55 am

Post by Chickadee »

Ah, well that's just how I generally approach things. Don't panic unless there's a reason to. I decided to catch up since there wasn't much, and at the end of my catch up it was already revealed. So why panic at that point?
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Post Post #1192 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:53 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 1180, Irrelephant11 wrote:Btw Guilty finally town-told (I think)! Yay

I’d get on an enigma wagon
man I'm so curious about this meta tell on me, will you tell me sometime?
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Post Post #1193 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:55 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

mmm maybe if I'm right a couple more times :wink:
though I'll
definitely
tell you if I'm wrong a couple times :lol:
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Post Post #1194 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:02 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 1183, Enigma wrote:PSA: This wagon is happening because of me being lazy and not fully engaged with the game, and if I get (mis)lynched this wagon/lynch will not provide useful information for town and will leave town grasping at straws again D3, especially with how it is being coordinated and pushed. It is a small group of vocal (and likely town) actors trying to convince others to jump on.
if you're legitimately town and you legitimately think your lynch will not provide useful info, provide some useful info yourself. sitting around taking small potshots at townreads without actually putting down any firm reads is the primary reason people want to lynch you as well as the primary reason it'd be a waste of effort if you are actually town.

that said, this mostly feels like AtE bs to try to sow doubt in scumreads on your slot. you could at least respond to my most recent posts (, ) where I am inviting / practically-begging you to give game-relevant content.
In post 1183, Enigma wrote:I suppose I will reiterate since people haven't really commented on my earlier sugegstion: we should be posting scum reads but we should not be actively trying to build a consensus on how to vote (like we did D1) as this allows scum to slip through easily, makes looking for scum coordination harder, and associatives are harder to identify as it becomes sheeping.
for the record I do sort of agree with this, though I also think sheeping onto a lynch is still useful info if we've consolidated. I mostly think it's important to make people take a stand on popular wagons (ofrhz, Prof Fridays, Enigma) and signal where they want to vote, which naturally leads to some consolidation. If we're posting scumreads then if people are hashing out reads and participating in give-and-take like good townies should, we wind up mostly consolidating. But at this point if we want to go into night with slight ambiguity about the exact # votes on orfhz/PF/enigma then I don't have a problem with it, I think there's mostly been enough content to see where the votes/flips go and glean information as a result.

I will say I am definitely not voting Prof Fridays, I think the "fluid" nature of his reads (as he self-described it) vibes vaguely town - not a hard townread but enough to make him less of a lynch priority for me than the other candidates I've been pushing.
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Post Post #1195 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:08 am

Post by Kokichi Oma »

I don't know about you guys but im.ready to vote.
How do you expect to find the culprit when you're all worried about each other's feelings? If you're planning to expose a liar, then you have to corner them psychologically.
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Post Post #1196 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:10 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

In post 1191, Chickadee wrote:Don't panic unless there's a reason to. I decided to catch up since there wasn't much, and at the end of my catch up it was already revealed. So why panic at that point?
on the surface I thought I understood this but when I think a bit more about it it doesn't make any sense

quick definitions
Time A - Pine making the second guess
Time B - mod revealing second guess was right

the panic point should have been seeing Pine make a second guess (Time A). NSG is saying town have reason to panic when they see that, and your lack of panic indicates scum mindset.

You are suggesting you arrived at some point between A and B, and started working on a catchup post. But town shouldn't have known that there was no reason to panic until after Time B. So you're not refuting what NSG has said.

Then, you say after Time B, there's no reason to panic. Which is true, but runs contrary to your suggestion that you were actively catching up between Time A and Time B.

So I feel you are being disingenuous with this explanation and conflating two different times (prior to Time B, post Time B) to justify a suspicious lack of panic that should have happened between Time A and Time B.
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Post Post #1197 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:13 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

basically either Chickadee arrived to thread after Time B, in which case she's lying about what time she started catching up

or Chickadee didn't have any panic between Time A and Time B, in which case she's not actually rebuffing NSG's point
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Post Post #1198 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:16 am

Post by GuiltyLion »

do we want to elect someone to make the final guess? the other alternative is someone just yolo'ing and doing it
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Post Post #1199 (ISO) » Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:16 am

Post by Irrelephant11 »

In post 1195, Kokichi Oma wrote:I don't know about you guys but im.ready to vote.
Yeah, I'm ready too.
In post 954, northsidegal wrote:by the way, has anyone given any thought to my "deadline" idea?

like, what if i just put this out there?

(expired on 2018-08-16 12:52:59)
But we can wait until this ends to end the day I guess.

Nominate NSG or Guilty (whoever is available around this deadline to choose the final number

I don't refuse Chickadee's nomination of me but I'll only do it if that's the most popular choice

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