Mini 2014: Succinct Mafia (Over)

[Hiraki]

Well, I'm not touching Lycanfire.

Why not?

i think he's the most town here?

[MathBlade]

In other words Trinity is just as likely a scum as anyone else and it should be based on day play. Plus she could send in her kill before VLA and most mods accept it.

If anything Trinity is scum because the mod wanted her to say in if Trinity is to be believed however I don’t believe in using that as a case so I am just gonna drop it and instead ask people to reread Trinity’s ISO and join me here.

VOTE: TrinityNZ

[MathBlade]

Well, I'm not touching Lycanfire.

Why not?

i think he's the most town here?

And if you’re scum I think you are indeed bad scum.

There is almost no way I am voting Dunn barring an extreme set of circumstances and then I would review the game. However scum is likely Trinity you Lycanfire in that order.

If Trinity flips town you kill Dunn then it likely turns into a you and I cross vote affair. I don’t see Lycanfire being scum here and Jingle’s wine discounts that theory. Ceding control of lylo is also a horrendously bad move if you’re scum.

If Trinity flips town you kill me it confirms Dunn as town and you’re forced to vote Lycanfire who you townread so you’re not going to do this.

If Trinity flips town you kill Lycanfire you lose as barring something incredibly scummy from Dunn like scumclaiming I vote you.

So TLDR Trinity or Hiraki and if Hiraki’s scum Hiraki made the wrong nightkill.

[Hiraki]

math has shown this game that he doesn't care about people trying to change his mind so i'm most definitely not going to

Vote: Trinity

[TrinityNZ]

math has shown this game that he doesn't care about people trying to change his mind so i'm most definitely not going to

Vote: Trinity

Proof that Hiraki is scum - straight onto the wagon. If you don’t believe me, at least believe Wisdom - who said Pine then Hiraki.

VOTE: Hiraki

[Hiraki]

I mean, I declared my intentions pretty early on but w/e, yeah, call it that

[Lycanfire]

few things

i've been rereading the entire thread (and all the shit i couldn't be bothered to read to begin with)

i cleaved off a chunk of my hand yesterday which lost me about ~16 hours of productivity

it's not that bad (i am taking bets for which bacteria will end up killing me) but for a few hours i was doing jack shit and had to sleep for 12. nsfl pictures available on request on the next time i change the bandage.

i haven't read any of today after my post. i didn't intend to until my notes were done. i have clear biases that i'm trying to suspend in my reread and letting one scum influence me is worse than any contributions three towns can. i've fucked up and i'll try to do better after i get my next posts available.

game looks pretty easy, and i'm pegging math as last scum. i feel pretty good about this, as hiraki eventually had some tryhardy posts which were in character. dunnstral is a bit of a question mark, and i'm trying to find out how he can't be aligned with jingle. math seems like a sure wolf and my only problem with this idea is that math is also the loudest player in this game, which has a selection bias. trinity is supertown esp with the flips. i'll be casing him as town as the little bit of contribution i can give right now.

exhibit A - the town wagons of day 1

for just about the whole day, all the major (top 3-4++) wagons were on flipped town. before cakez' 237 the biggest wagons are fitz/tfl/wisdom. by the next page the biggest wagons are TFL/eevee/wisdom. basically: the more waves you make, the harder it is to hold the tide. the existing wagons were INCREDIBLY popular, but in the latter half of day 1 cakez started to refuse to SR fitz, and chose to strike out a new wagon. what happens if wisdom wises up, but also doesn't want eevee? where does all this morale land? basically, scum!cakez is giving up a good position to invite uncertainty. i think this is town.

i have a theory that wisdom getting people on his wagons was a "kill switch" that caused pine and gerry to consolidate onto TFL. CLICKY 324 352 359 361 basically, if wisdom and AA got enough people to their side and fitz went no where, the biggest challenge to the slow moving TFL wagon could land conceivably anywhere. this ties into...

on page 15 we have mathblade promoting tfl/otter, with gerry discrediting it. immediately after, pine votes TFL. i can't piece together how gerry kept switching his positions around day 1, but with the pine vote i was feeling like he was trying to harm vca and make the TFL seem reasonable (what amounts to being orderlies in an asylum). cakez speaks out against the wagon, and gerry joins TFL.

[Lycanfire]

exhibit B - cakez interactions

there's multiple instances of cakez speaking out against pine, and going as far as to put gerry in his sights at the same time. in the perspective of the good position™ scum are in, if you're going to spoil associatives, why not do it with town? pine was going as far as to suggest the counters all had scum (something my pred unfortunately bought into). cakez DENIED that vehemently, when scum could have spoiled associatives with towns instead. again, where does the lynch morale go, if not tfl, if not fitz, if not wisdom, and if it doesn't stick to eevee? this is

too dangerous of a game to play

.

exhibit C - the moi entrance and dilemma

i'd like to end saying that

we were never asked not to speculate the reason behind the replace out.

however, we can all guess that moi was informed of gerry's align, whatever gerry's align was, and this only becomes of particular interest after gerry flips scum (at least scum could conceivably know of a town player's role, for instance). this is not an interaction that can happen if moi is also scum. i don't feel bad about discussing this, because if scum want to claim scum to people outside the game, they deserve to lose, not just create a slot that is near conftown.

moi's entrance had a strong push on both pine and math, while he paid lipservice to gerry being scum but also considered that gerry might just be brain damaged. at a crucial vote count mafmen rescinds on gerry's read on eevee-perhaps denoting some sort of urgency.

i'm overtaking my notes at this point, but here's the rest of the day.

eevee goes on pine, umlaut onto mathblade, otter to mathblade, pine to hiraki, umlaut goes to AA, mathblade to trinity, otter-umlaut unvote, umlaut to otter, (hey this is when i appear and unvote from nothing!), wisdom to otter, umlaut to pine, wisdom to pine, hiraki to pine, trinity to pine, dunnstral intent to hammer, pine claims, umlaut to otter, wisdom to math, trinity to math, umlaut to eevee, pine to eevee, dunnstral unvote (eevee), hiraki to eevee, wisdom to pine, otter to pine, umlaut unvotes, umlaut to eevee, trinity to eevee, umlaut unvotes, math unvotes, math unvotes, otter unvotes, dunnstral votes eevee, umlaut votes eevee for the hammer.

mafmen wasn't the only one kneejerking upon math getting votes- pine did it too the second time wisdom and trinity lined up their votes together.

tl;dr trinity is town. math is loud and scummy. dunnstral is quiet and i don't know how he can't be aligned with pine. hiraki is scummy at parts, townie at others, and goes from being quiet to making tryhardy posts i'm more used to seeing from him.

[Dunnstral]

Well, I'm not touching Lycanfire.

Why not?

i think he's the most town here?

Really? Because before he posted the above 2 I've been feeling he's been pretty lacking in the thread compared to what I'm used to (which is giant analysis of the game like the posts above)

Lycan, am i correct in saying that you've never given a read on me? It looks like you're just saying I

could

be scum with pine without really giving an opinion and I'm wondering what the motivation there is. Similarly, would you lynch Hiraki, or would you not?

[Dunnstral]

For context I disagree when you say Mathblade looks like the last scum

I was thinking Hiraki with off chance at trinity with you being the question mark

[Lycanfire]

Closest to a read on you I've given before now is pointing out Cakez' townread on you early was flawed, and felt blank TR of wisdom at time would been more helpful if said why felt that way. You proceeded answer me real time saying it had been too long to remember why, but I never asked you anything.

I'm saying

you can be scum with Pine

in sense that Math has said two occasions that you can't be aligned with Pine. I don't see Math's read (disturbing trend). I'd be happy to have some proof.

I'm not sure how I feel on Hiraki besides that he was doing some good things and a lot of his scumminess comes as a result of... being present. Which is what I'm trying to remove from my Math scumread (but Math has more obvious problems). I have an inverse read on you, you're not around as often as the other two, and something I noted in my flippy reread.

How you can townread Math is beyond me.

Exhibit A - Lost rapport

Brie's slapfight with Gerry on page 4 is probably the best shining example of towniest for the slot this entire game. In my reread however it wasn't as great: probably the first interesting interaction with flipped scum in the game is Pine's 74. The two statements Pine makes don't flow with one another, and the conclusion (gerry as scum) has nothing to do with what Brie said. Brie's slapfight on the next page and tentative suspicion of the Gerry slot thereafter lacks flare with Pine flipped: it reads like two people giving the illusion of performing "work" especially in the case when Gerry gets himself hung by this playerlist.

Besides, who the fuck talks like this? Pine never once establishes any kind of rapport with Brie. Nothing like, sup Brie, we've played so many games together (???). I know what I'm about to say has nothing to do with what you just said, but that Gerry guy is a fucking loser. As a reminder, Brie never moved her vote onto Gerry, especially after making it clear several times it would be best placed there.

Exhibit B - False binary conundrum

MathBlade's entrance is marked with taking an interaction between Mom and Wisdom and stating that Wisdom's lynchpool {fitz, gerry TFL} is either 100% town, if Wisdom is scum, or Momrangal is scum and implies her partners are there. It pinged me not because bad logic=scummy, but because action=stirs up shit. Dig through the shit, document the results, ask why you have shit on your hands. The remainder of page 8 deals with Cakez working with Mom instead of against her, like Pine does on this page. Dunnstral similarly backs Mom here.

Exhibit C - Flipped scum as town

All posts that strongly imply this slot is town or lynching them is a bad idea.

Pine is town: 199, 213, 244, 259, 378, 381, 383, 389, 720, 945, 951, 998, 1008.

[Lycanfire]

Whiplash: "This is scum with Pine will be at work."

1039

... 1068
Gerry is town: 189, 198, 201, 259, 284

Both/bonus: "More than likely scum stayed off it because they would know the claim was real."

Exhibit D - Policy lynch contradiction

413 "...I am not pushing policy."

263 "Same either lack of catchup/understanding while not contributing as here as a matter of conscience I can't allow this same pattern to exist."

Exhibit E - Le scum c'est moi

Moi entered the game and slammed Pine, Math, and Gerry simultaneously as scum(->693). Math rebuked by saying that Gerry was also guilty of being experienced enough not to mindlessly lynch TFL without a counterclaim (scum were pretty shameless about this). Math hit this drum often enough for it to be suspect, probably to prove Math right/Moi wrong (Moi couldn't definitively call Gerry scum). Where have I seen this before, btw? When the dead rodent worships the bus that struck him. Pine got talkative around this time, mainly saying that Hitler did nothing wrong and not to lynch Math.

For the middle part of day 2, Math proceeded to prodge incessantly with the same lynch pool. 710, 744, 792. With Moi gone, Math happily gets involved in a slapfight with Umlaut. It's at this time that the twin kneejerk connection occurred.

Exhibit F - Hyposcum

Nothing about day 2 for Math was about making a decision on Pine/Eevee. Math clearly chose a favourite (eevee), but viewed everything through a lens where Trinity was scum, Trinity must be scum, Trinity should be lynched, oh, and Umlaut too. There was a third option where NOT resolving the claims was possible, which is anti-town, because all one for ones are a good deal for town. Math hypoclaimed on several occasions in futility, seemingly with the aim to make as much noise and uncertainty as possible.

Exhibit G - Man on the ropes

Jingle for me was based on associations with Math to begin with. See how Math caught my eye day 2: weirdo post on Jingle. Clincher: Yes I agree with everything you say, can't elaborate why, but could you please tell me more?

Exhibit H - Inexplicable reads

1. I don't know how Jingle scum told. Certain things sounds like a mystical Trumpian force.

2. No wiser on how Dunnstral can't be scum with Pine.

bonus: "@MafMen Needs to die too same reasons as Trinity. MafMen seems content on spamming."

Ah, yes spamming, infamous tell... Must be like Pine's meta tell.

---

I've tried to maintain an appropriate level of suspicion of Hiraki despite most of his play saying otherwise to me, but by comparison I say the most damning evidence is otter's read page 12, where he said scum (at the time, gerry hiraki) are pushing a scum wagon [onto wisdom]. Pine asspulled a reason to scumread him (previously a TR). You called him on it too. I'll try to case both of you, but Math has been a leading scumread for me since I touched this game.

<<<

INFRACTION

: Post over 500 words; user has been warned. >>>

[MathBlade]

For context I disagree when you say Mathblade looks like the last scum

I was thinking Hiraki with off chance at trinity with you being the question mark

+1

I do not have time to respond to that entire wall

However if you do that much of a wall it sounds like your mind is made up to sell it versus the reasons why.
In other words there was a catalyst if you’re town that made you think I was scum what was it?

[MathBlade]

it's too damn hot to play mafia

i think jingle and mathblade are struggling to have a real conversation here

also please scumread me so i don't die tonight, god bless

Especially since this here

I was specifically talking with Jingle to get him to do moves as a chessboard.

I told him a fake tell deliberately (I kept the real one hidden XD) and then saw him try to defend the fake one rather than saying he wasn’t scum. He defended the tell not his alignment.

VOTE: Unvote

I don’t want derp hammer while Lycan and I chat.

[TrinityNZ]

Lycanfire I’m trying to understand your posts. Who is Gerry?

Sorry to hear about your hand.

[Lycanfire]

Casing of other slots is delayed to a time when I don't have a fever.

Math:

1. I wasn't fully re-read up after the flips until the hours after I cased Trinity as town. My certainty on you has only grown.

2. You shouldn't be unvoting Trinity for the sake of dialogue, you should unvote them because there's play reasons and mechanical reasons to believe they are town.

If you can't be bothered to read my 'wall', you should at least be able to read the tl;dr.

3. I've challenged the idea of Dunnstral not aligned with Pine three times now, and you are not doing us the favor of eliminating potential scum.

3b. I thought you said Dunn also couldn't be scum with Jingle, but I read your posts and you said Pine. As it turns out I did read a post like that... If Dunnstral is so town why can't you tell people why?

4. The first feeling I had that you were scum comes from Brie's slot. The second moment was your entrance. Your continued hypoclaiming the post after I said to resolve the protective claims that day did nothing to shake my read. Your reaction to Jingle replacing in (the necessity of Jingle giving reads on the freebie day; agreeing with his poop reads for no reason) cemented my read.

5. Jingle had independent scum equity- Otter was supertown with Pine flipped, how he said otter was 'flailing', and so on. There was real evidence to scumread him, so why do you have to be all cloak and dagger about it? It's only after that Jingle personally attacks Otter, suggests a meme scum team, after my post drawing parallels to yourself and Jingle do you remark "Jingle is an easy as fuck scumread for me when he does certain things. There are things he always does as scum. "

5b. I don't understand "defended the tell". You remarked that he "[defended] yourself rather than posting any sort of read is rather telling Jingle.".

5c. In fact you prompted him on several occasions to gave reads... Which he did. Since Jingle flipped scum, we know for a fact that they are poisonous.

5d. Despite your scumtell, you do not vote him, you do not encourage my read, you only remark that your brain feels like "swiss cheese" and that I could be scum with Jingle.

6. Except nothing came of that, and you have only pushed Trinity today, for unknown reasons. Unsurprisingly before the lynch was certain, Jingle called Trinity independently scum when he was at L-3 (You, Trinity, your unvote).

I'm pretty confident in this wolf. VOTE: Math

Lycanfire I’m trying to understand your posts. Who is Gerry?

Gerry aka Kokichi / Mafmen-Jingle slot, or "that person that is always named in the links referenced when Lycan said Gerry"

[Lycanfire]

Math is online and I'm going to sleep

[MathBlade]

Number 1) Yes I am online
Number 2) Sixty hour work week
Number 3) I can read just fine time to respond is limited
Number 4) Just because I am online doesn’t mean I have to respond right away
Number 5) There is value in succinctness. My guess is those posts go over or are pretty damn close. Most of them are not valid and I have zero desire to get in a quote wall with you.

People will reevaluate in lylo.
If I am mislynched then so be it and people will re-examine you based on the merits. It feels like today you decided to mislynch me which makes me question the townread on your slot.

I should have time Saturday.

[Hiraki]

I'm conflicted on Math because I really feel that Math vs Wisdom was TvT in retrospective but I've been incorrect on a lot of things this game.

[mastina]

Whiplash: "This is scum with Pine will be at work."

1039

... 1068
Gerry is town: 189, 198, 201, 259, 284

Both/bonus: "More than likely scum stayed off it because they would know the claim was real."

Exhibit D - Policy lynch contradiction

413 "...I am not pushing policy."

263 "Same either lack of catchup/understanding while not contributing as here as a matter of conscience I can't allow this same pattern to exist."

Exhibit E - Le scum c'est moi

Moi entered the game and slammed Pine, Math, and Gerry simultaneously as scum(->693). Math rebuked by saying that Gerry was also guilty of being experienced enough not to mindlessly lynch TFL without a counterclaim (scum were pretty shameless about this). Math hit this drum often enough for it to be suspect, probably to prove Math right/Moi wrong (Moi couldn't definitively call Gerry scum). Where have I seen this before, btw? When the dead rodent worships the bus that struck him. Pine got talkative around this time, mainly saying that Hitler did nothing wrong and not to lynch Math.

For the middle part of day 2, Math proceeded to prodge incessantly with the same lynch pool. 710, 744, 792. With Moi gone, Math happily gets involved in a slapfight with Umlaut. It's at this time that the twin kneejerk connection occurred.

Exhibit F - Hyposcum

Nothing about day 2 for Math was about making a decision on Pine/Eevee. Math clearly chose a favourite (eevee), but viewed everything through a lens where Trinity was scum, Trinity must be scum, Trinity should be lynched, oh, and Umlaut too. There was a third option where NOT resolving the claims was possible, which is anti-town, because all one for ones are a good deal for town. Math hypoclaimed on several occasions in futility, seemingly with the aim to make as much noise and uncertainty as possible.

Exhibit G - Man on the ropes

Jingle for me was based on associations with Math to begin with. See how Math caught my eye day 2: weirdo post on Jingle. Clincher: Yes I agree with everything you say, can't elaborate why, but could you please tell me more?

Exhibit H - Inexplicable reads

1. I don't know how Jingle scum told. Certain things sounds like a mystical Trumpian force.

2. No wiser on how Dunnstral can't be scum with Pine.

bonus: "@MafMen Needs to die too same reasons as Trinity. MafMen seems content on spamming."

Ah, yes spamming, infamous tell... Must be like Pine's meta tell.

---

I've tried to maintain an appropriate level of suspicion of Hiraki despite most of his play saying otherwise to me, but by comparison I say the most damning evidence is otter's read page 12, where he said scum (at the time, gerry hiraki) are pushing a scum wagon [onto wisdom]. Pine asspulled a reason to scumread him (previously a TR). You called him on it too. I'll try to case both of you, but Math has been a leading scumread for me since I touched this game.

<<< Lycanfire is receiving a warning for the infraction of making a post with more than 500 words. >>>

[mastina]

Votecount

TrinityNZ - 1 (Hiraki)

Hiraki - 1 (TrinityNZ)
MathBlade - 1 (Lycanfire)

Not Voting - 2 (Dunnstral, MathBlade)

3 to lynch.

[Lycanfire]

Mastina you're reneging on the precedent you set in post 23: viewtopic.php?p=10217423#p10217423

I disagree with MathBlade's assertion that I am not following the spirit of the game.

We are at

page 51

and I have not been here for a large portion of the game. It's to be expected that I would offer commentary on the events of the game. Arguing otherwise is to argue not playing it at all.

In fact my posts have been very much in the spirit of the game. I'm using quotes and presenting argument

from/on an entire slot's game content

and fitting it within 1 screen worth of space.

Furthermore, the post supposedly in contradiction to the rules uses quotes without quote tag, but are given post numbers, presented in quotation. This as well removes a lot of "space" of a post and makes it easier to read.

Not only do these quotes not count towards word total, but they make my posts easier to read.

This mod action is influence on the game to the benefit of scum.

Also, wordcounter.io says 499 for that post, even with the quotes present.

Mastina has transcended being a meme and has become fake news.

Math:

1. I've never asked for you to respond to everything in my posts. My case on you was directed to Dunnstral and his townread of you.

2. If you want to contribute, you could talk about the Dunnstral slot.

3. My posts ARE in the spirit of the game and to say otherwise is scum tears. Saying you will not acknowledge my posts because they are not "valid" is a scum claim.

4. Saying I'm out to mislynch you isn't game solving. Why would I try to mechanically clear Trinity if I were scum? I could easily go "herpa derp wisdom townread him, guys i'm not so sure about this" and receive a mislynch. Or how I've tried to get you (town in your argument...) to clear Dunnstral for me. I mean, after all, I'm the scum here, not Trinity or so you say.

[mastina]

Mastina you're reneging on the precedent you set in post 23: viewtopic.php?p=10217423#p10217423

<<< I see no quote tags in 1261. Nor do I see area tags or spoiler tags. That post is as far as I can tell completely text, and valid, with no broken tags that I can detect.

It is thus, a violation as it exceeds 500 words.

Noteworthy: my word counter is this one, which I noted early in the game. >>>

[MathBlade]

1) I never said your posts were in violation of the spirit of the game.
I said there is value in succinctness. There is a huge difference.
2) Mastina is using an automated votecounter. If it says more than 500 it does. It’s a warning.
3) If you were away for the entire game then you either need to be more available now or accept the fact that time is gone.
4) I am not scum and therefore Mastina cannot scumside.
5) I have my townread in Dunnstral. I demonstrated how he cannot be scum. The only reason I am being attacked now is because if both me and Dunn survive scum cannot win.

They either get lynched today yay we win
They take one of me or Dunn to lylo.
In this case the scum are forced to cross vote.
It is not in our best interest to read wall when I singlehandedly saved Dunn who scum wanted to push.
So you’re scum or doing scum’s handiwork.

Your case is built on lies but none as agregious as attacking the fucking mod. Attacking ME is one thing
Attacking Mastina is another
I have known her a long ass time and she would never do the things you are accusing her of. Point blank.

So come after me all you want do not question Mastina’s integrity.

[MathBlade]

In fact Sunday evening after 4 PM PST you are online in greater than 24 hours from this post and I will make an effort if possible to be online then.

Then you will have four posts to type less than 500 words to get stuff off of your chest. You can do everything you want and I will just post a emoticon or something. And if we get a page break even more.

Just right now your case is so fundamentally bad it does us a disservice to discredit it and people’s eyes will gloss over