Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Toranaga]

[MathBlade]

you guys saw mathblade was using the "come to the dark side, we have cookies" avatar, right?

HE THOUGHT HE WAS OUTED. and then drixx happened LOL.

???? I haven’t changed my avatar in years and would not do so in an active game. Like wtf?

[Toranaga]

ah fuck it's sando's avatar

whatever doesn't matter

[Toranaga]

anything to say about your obvious hypocrisy though? no right?

[Toranaga]

I'll either get ignored or math will do his regular wordbomb.txt of scumsplaining

[Toranaga]

"The fact there is no resistance to it and was to the bombing plan including other players besides Tor.
Like something feels wrong and I can’t put my finger on it.
And since I can’t I am opposed."

that's such openwolfing I can't even btw

[Toranaga]

math, pro tip: kill the worst. he is the only one who is seeing through you rn.

[Drixx]

This is super easy, Tora.

If you somehow flip green after

literally

making a post where you claimed to have had a better plan than Nancy, AND then also Gamma flips Green (Math is locked into doing that tonight or eats rope tomorrow), then we have hard evidence that scum can bypass the leader vote rules (which would make the post concerning how leadership is acquired a mod lie, but that would be something to address after the game).

But let's just think about that potential for a moment. Sakura definitely voted Nero. You say you did too. Gamma claims to have done so also. If you were to both flip green, that's 3 confirmed Nero votes and thus is proof that Math was elected via some hidden ability the scum team has. I'll just list the possible worlds here:

1.) Ausuka, Sakura, Tora and Gamma all voted Nero - In this world we know scum can bypass the leader mechanism and Math becomes tomorrow's lynch presumably.
2.) Ausuka forgot to vote. Sakura, Tora and Gamma all voted Nero - Same as #1

Because of the above, if we see both you and Gamma flip town, we know for certain that a scum ability put math in leadership. Then the weak evidence against Math would outweigh the numbers because we would know the numbers of votes were irrelevant. Right now the certainty that the mod provided an ironclad explanation for how the leader is selected, without any disclaimers other than M/LYLO and no lynch, far outweighs.

3.) Ausuka, Sakura both voted Nero. Nancy, Gamma, Tora voted Math. -- This world requires no assumptions other than that the mod was completely honest with how leaders are selected, which is why it's the most rational and most likely correct world. (Again: GIVEN WHAT WE KNOW)

4.) Ausuka forgot to vote. Sakura voted Nero. One of {Nancy, Tora, Gamma} also voted Nero. The other two and a 3rd scum not in this list voted Math in as a frame. In this case you should be happy to die because you already expressed a desire to leave the game, and your death would be a trade for scum 1:1 which we always win.

5.) Votes are irrelevant. The mod's very thorough explanation of leadership mechanic is false and the leader votes tell us nothing. In this world Math is almost certainly scum.


So ...

@ALL: If both Toranaga and Gamma flip green and I get killed tonight, then math eats rope tomorrow.

-- The reasoning is pretty simple: Precog was incorrect.

It also probably is worth at least SOME discussion about where the final scum is located if it's not just {Tora, Gamma}

[Toranaga]

oh NOW precog being incorrect is meaningful lol

sure

I'm flipping town obviously

[Toranaga]

you don't even read the game drixx

I made that plan where the towncore would get sui bombs

nancy was ITT arguing against it

this didn't happen in our WOLFCHAT. at the very least stop wanting to be right. you're wrong and I'm dead, it's fine.

[Toranaga]

I'm happy to be resolved, sure

but you could have at least try to wolfhunt instead of clear math for bullshit.

you could just read relevant parts of our ISOs or read nancy for spew. you didn't. you're hanging onto something I KNOW is false to lynch me. and you are the main reason this is happening. we could have wagoned gamma and maybe flip scum today. we aren't doing it cause of you and your faulty ass logic and your lack of wolfhunting skills

[Drixx]

oh NOW precog being incorrect is meaningful lol

sure

I'm flipping town obviously

I never said the precog being partially wrong was meaningless. I simply weighted other evidence higher than that. If; however, we arrive at a gamestate where that evidence simply cannot be correct, then it has zero weight.

you don't even read the game drixx

I made that plan where the towncore would get sui bombs

nancy was ITT arguing against it

this didn't happen in our WOLFCHAT. at the very least stop wanting to be right. you're wrong and I'm dead, it's fine.

That was a pretty confusing post you made. I'm going to quote it again because you didn't say in THAT post what you're saying in this post. Also ... you self-voted which is literally never playing to wincon as town. So if you're town, you are playing against wincon and need to stop doing that.

[Drixx]

This isn't hard Tora. You're a threat if you're scum and we don't lynch you right now. You will be able to get another bomb off and I have to use no FG/IP tonight while you live for fear it gets echoed onto you. It's simply the correct move in the current game state.

So if we show up tomorrow and Gamma wasn't killed, then obviously Math eats rope. The reason Math would go before Gamma should be REALLY obvious.

[Toranaga]

like you live in such a dream land, that you think wolves would all vote math instead of nero. the only wolf that did this was nancy. me, ausuka and sakura are town, and you and sando wanted to nuke the entire pool of players regardless of how they played or how little it makes sense. it's bad. also, it's very clear gamma and I cannot both be scum but you're with your head so down mechanics you don't even fully know about that you can't see it.

[Toranaga]

if you understood the context, you'd understand my posts.

[Toranaga]

you just said I have to die, no? that's the right thing to do. so me self voting is doing the right thing, isn't it?

[Toranaga]

power echo doesn't go off by day btw. I can't use anything tonight and I can't be echoed tomorrow but you know your mechanics drixx.

[Toranaga]

I'll literally just suicide on mathblade and have him lose protection if I live

that's the only thing I'm doing tomorrow and then I get to read mathblade come up with a million excuses why he is not using his own sui

[Toranaga]

you missed the part where I'm much more useful for town when I'm town, cause you don't even want to consider that possibility

and I'm bleeding town for ages now. I'm such an easy read. you're incompetent, drixx. sorry.

[Drixx]

like you live in such a dream land, that you think wolves would all vote math instead of nero. the only wolf that did this was nancy. me, ausuka and sakura are town, and you and sando wanted to nuke the entire pool of players regardless of how they played or how little it makes sense. it's bad. also, it's very clear gamma and I cannot both be scum but you're with your head so down mechanics you don't even fully know about that you can't see it.

Explain to me how you and gamma can't be scum together.

Also: just so you know ... any argument that boils down to "Scum wouldn't do that" is worthless. There's literally NOTHING that scum won't do. You should go look at my solo scum game in SMITE and the in hydra Reasonably Rational scum game in Steven Universe 2.

In SMITE, I literally told someone I knew was town exactly where to look to out me as scum and that player and the rest of the game believed my claims because "Scum wouldn't tell us exactly where to find evidence they are scum". At the end of that game, I put a coup de grace on the game by withholding my vote when it seemed that it would win the game for me because making that vote would not have been sticking with my story. Instead, I got town who had been flipped and resurrected to completely buy my story and vote where I wanted so I got the win by eliminating the SK with the lynch instead of having to deal with a re-direct issue during the night to finish the win. There's a whole bunch of "scum would never..." there.

In SU2, Cerberus and I literally played the game as if we were town. We chose a LYLO that nobody believed we would ever choose as scum, and the player with the deciding vote literally spent two weeks trying to find ANY reasoning for scum us and ultimately just decided that she would rather lose WITH us than TO us and voted us. That game also features a gigantic pile of "no fucking way scum would..." shit.


And here's the kicker: Neither Cerb nor I consider ourselves to be particularly good scum. If we have the balls to gambit that hard ... why not players better than us?

[Toranaga]

so there you go

"scum wouldn't do that" is a worthless argument to you

therefore the reasoning being, gamma would only out himself to frame me doesn't work in your brain

we've been there before

[Drixx]

you missed the part where I'm much more useful for town when I'm town, cause you don't even want to consider that possibility

and I'm bleeding town for ages now. I'm such an easy read. you're incompetent, drixx. sorry.

If I had any reason to actually be confident that you are town, then you would be super useful. The problem is that you think you're obvtown because of a bunch of emotion and ATE posts, but that's not enough. You were far to flip/floppy earlier. The "narrative" of your play from start to finish is really messy and while it's possible for town to produce the kind of ISO you have ... there's much more in there that appears to be scummy narrative slips.

Please do feel welcome to make a rational argument. Note I haven't voted yet and I'm not trying to hurry the day up. I'm putting in the time like I said I would and trying to game solve. A town you should be doing everything you can to help instead of hurling insults.

Also to address a couple things you said:

1.) The power echo would be used on me to copy my night action onto you. That means that while you live I cannot afford to use Force-field Generation or Impenetrable Skin because that would give a scum!Tora the ability to bomb another townie without also dying.

2.) There's literally no way for me to know that you would bomb who you say you will. That's meaningless fluff.

3.) If Math doesn't bomb Gamma in the night, then math eats rope tomorrow. It's that easy.

[MathBlade]

Shit that means I can’t give out powers if Kokichi is scum or scum with echo is still alive.

[MathBlade]

Don’t fucking hammer til we figure this out.

[MathBlade]

Wait no we’re good nevermind