Heroes Wanted! (Game Over)

[Drixx]

so there you go

"scum wouldn't do that" is a worthless argument to you

therefore the reasoning being, gamma would only out himself to frame me doesn't work in your brain

we've been there before

You can't have it both ways. Either scum DID out themselves (Nancy and Gamma, according to you), or they didn't. You can't have 1/2 the argument to argue we should lynch Gamma and then reject the idea when it puts you in the POE.

The REAL kicker here is that the only ways that either you or Gamma can even be town are:

1.) Ausuka forgot to leader vote (tantamount to game throwing)
2.) The mod literally gave us an elaborate lie about how leaders are selected

That's the entire possibility space.

I literally have to assume that either Ausuka failed to put in a leader vote

OR

that the mod lied in the setup info in order to come to the conclusion that you are town.

So sure ... the Ausuka forgetting is a definite possibility. You haven't done a lot today except attack people personally. I would expect scum you to be ATE and flailing (which is what I see).

I would expect town anyone I've ever played with to be putting in effort to make sure that after they die and are confirmed to be playing for town wincon they have left as much of a legacy as possible to the rest of the team.

So like I said already: if you're town ... then show us.

[Toranaga]

I'm not town for emotional posting, drixx

I'm town because I did not stop scumhunting throughout the game, I have had impossible interactions with wolf!titus and wolf!nancy that spew me town in many ways. because I saved your ass to stop mathblade's plan. I'm not even appealing to emotion. I was emotional yesterday and I wanted everyone to go blow themselves because you're shooting your own foot again. I'm not appealing to anything. I'm telling you you're bad at mafia if you don't see past incomplete mechanical knowledge. that's just bad playing on your part and you're hard pushing for my lynch because of it. I know your mechanical speculation is wrong, drixx. and you will know that too when I flip.

[Toranaga]

drixx

you're saying I'm only town if ausuka forgot her vote or the game is bastard, both are things I can't really argue in favour of cause I don't know why mathblade is leader.

you want me to show you mechanically that I'm town. I'm telling you I'm town because I brute forced a better plan than the *nuke everyone* plan that mathblade came up with and everyone but me and you agreed with that. if it wasn't for me, we'd have had 6+ dead town at night, not one.

BUT SCUM CAN BE PRO TOWN

so there's no arguing with you. you've hammered yourself into bad mechanics and now I'm dead so that's it.

[Drixx]

Tora you seem to be missing the point I'm making. If you're town you can't argue me into believing that. You should be focused on what you claim makes you town: scum hunting.

Even if we suppose that Math is scum ... there's still one other out there. Who is that?

And while we're assuming for a moment you are town ... you being town doesn't make you right about Math. So ... you should also be assuming Math is town and giving your evaluation of that possible scenario.


If you are town here, you are literally just being spiteful and hoping the rest of us fuck up so you can insult us post game. That's not pro town man.

[Nero Cain]

There goes my hero
Watch him as he goes
There goes my hero
He's ordinary

[Toranaga]

Tora you seem to be missing the point I'm making. If you're town you can't argue me into believing that. You should be focused on what you claim makes you town: scum hunting.

Even if we suppose that Math is scum ... there's still one other out there. Who is that?

And while we're assuming for a moment you are town ... you being town doesn't make you right about Math. So ... you should also be assuming Math is town and giving your evaluation of that possible scenario.


If you are town here, you are literally just being spiteful and hoping the rest of us fuck up so you can insult us post game. That's not pro town man.

I'm POEing this down to either gamma or sando and have explained why pretty thoroughly.

gamma is literally on the same boat I am because for mathblade to be elected, that means one of us, or both of us, has lied. I'm assuming scum can at least redirect one of the leader votes to mathblade though, so there is a remote possibility that me/gamma/sakura voted nero, and then e.g. my vote went to mathblade because of scum ability, making it 3 v 2.

I think gamma is scum, though. I see his claim as a frame job, because with mathblade!scum going alive to the night, if they manage to maintain living wolves while killing the town that was in nero's voting pool, they have a pretty clear shot at winning the game. there's a lot of combo killing powers they can use tonight to win. of course, once nancy flipped, that plan already went downhill cause they can't kill too much town with only 2 living wolves. which is why you never saw gamma post anymore.

the other candidate would be sando, if for nothing else, because he wanted me to NOT shoot nancy and then tried to bully me into shooting sakura hana. if you bothered to check my posts this gameday, I started off scumreading nancy as associative with mathblade, and then proceeded to bug nancy to unpetrify sakura, which mathblade was against btw. as far as wolfreading sando for anything past this gameday, I'm really not. I think he has been villagery, but if there's town in mathblade or gamma, I'd say sando has a very good chance of being a wolf because of how hard he wolfsided this gameday.

and you will never clear me for wolfhunting cause I've done literally nothing else this entire game and yet you can't see me ever being town.

[Toranaga]

does petrification nullify phasing?

[Toranaga]

UNVOTE: toranaga

ok one last piece of trying to understand the mechanics here

also mathblade should post the precog list so you know he won't use a power tonight. if I'm scum, there's no need for him to do so and if I'm town, he is scum right? so force him to not use anything tonight.

[Toranaga]

if ausuka used SS's phasing, is there any power that can stop it and make their shot go through?

@drixx, I think you should be able to answer this

[Toranaga]

I see what happened.

scum has SS and used SS in combination with their night kill to kill ausuka

here:

If the factional kill is modified by Super Strength, would it bypass Impenetrable Skin modified by Super Strength?
Yes, because it is not a blocking or manipulative action.

SS makes any action unblockable and can't be manipulated. that means, since phasing is a redirect, SS goes through phasing, even if phasing is SS'ed itself.

so scum has SS.

[the worst]

Quack quack

[the worst]

L0l mathblade/gamma

[Nero Cain]

"Nero didn't get elected b/c a unknown scum ability."

While that's clearly possible it makes sense to lynch from my supposed voters.

[Drixx]

I kind of think that Math needs to use precog actually. The reality is that I don't think it's reasonable to assume Math will be able to blow anyone up tonight. As much as I'd like to assume that Math can blow up Gamma so we eliminate the current POE before tomorrow starts ... there's way too many scenarios where we show up tomorrow and Math and Gamma are both alive.

@Math: We have breathing room. You need to precog. At that point (assuming you're town because that's the highest probability atm) scum will add more evidence to you being town by using extra actions that shouldn't happen or else they will not be able to or choose not to in order to keep your status in doubt.

At this point with 2 scum left, we have every reason to use mechanical advantages and no reason to YOLO it up in here.

[Toranaga]

SS was only available on n4. mathblade was leader on n4 and this is the list, with what people claimed to have gotten:

Mathblade (SS),
Sakura Hana (SS),
Frozen Angel (SS?),
Drixx (Doctor),
Nancy,
stungun

sakura and FA are dead town. drixx is mechanically confirmed to have taken doctor by nero+me+kokichi, given my sui didn't kill me (if you're paying attention you know why). so the only people left who could have taken SS and used for scum are mathblade and nancy.

I forgot what nancy claimed to have gotten, but it doesn't matter anyway cause she was very likely lying about it. there's something else though, it's about petrification that scum used on sakura hana:

petrification was available in d3. the list was Frozen Angel (Leader, Healing), Sakura Hana (Bulletproof), Mathblade (Petrification), Nancy (Healing), Drixx (Bulletproof), Shiro. I know drixx took bp cause I mimicked it. sakura, FA and shiro are all dead town. nancy says she got healing and we know she got healing cause she healed sakura. so from d3, only mathblade could have taken petrification.

the other day petrification was available was d5/n5. I took sui as proven by theta's death. kokichi did echo nero to me, nero probably used absortion and confirmed drixx, ausuka and sakura are dead town. the only person from d5 that could have taken petrification was nancy.

so the only two people that can have used petrification or SS for the scum team are mathblade and nancy drew.

nancy drew could have acted alone anyway: take SS on d4, take petrification on d5, use SS on n5 and petrify sakura while strongman killing ausuka.

the only way this wouldn't be the case is if scum can't use factional abilities and superpowers on different people. meaning, if scum can't visit two people the same night, that does point to mathblade being scum. I'm reading the rules and stuff again to see if I find anything.

[Toranaga]

"Nero didn't get elected b/c a unknown scum ability."

While that's clearly possible it makes sense to lynch from my supposed voters.

I agree with this if you understand my posting btw. I just didn't wanna go before wolf flipped cause that would defeat us. after nancy flipped I'll happily get lynched here. I'd like to lynch scum instead but I can't convince anybody that wants me dead that I'm town.

I'm trying to find that piece of mechanics that clears me but it's hard.

[Drixx]

"Nero didn't get elected b/c a unknown scum ability."

While that's clearly possible it makes sense to lynch from my supposed voters.

B.S. went to an awful lot of trouble to

very thoroughly

outline how the leader is selected. There are disclaimers in there for all sorts of things. Honestly I view it as a mod error already that there isn't a disclaimer that says "Powers may or may not be able to impact the leader selection process." or something similar, but it's not like a super obvious mistake. If anything it's a reason to ask someone good at mechanics and breaking things to look at setup and try and break it.

The fact that it's missing implies that B.S. either didn't consider giving scum that possibility or decided against it and then felt like such a disclaimer was unnecessary.


P-Edit: Generally speaking, scum are allowed to do their factional kill plus another ability. It's not a 100% absolute but it's almost an absolute in large themed on site.

[MathBlade]

I kind of think that Math needs to use precog actually. The reality is that I don't think it's reasonable to assume Math will be able to blow anyone up tonight. As much as I'd like to assume that Math can blow up Gamma so we eliminate the current POE before tomorrow starts ... there's way too many scenarios where we show up tomorrow and Math and Gamma are both alive.

@Math: We have breathing room. You need to precog. At that point (assuming you're town because that's the highest probability atm) scum will add more evidence to you being town by using extra actions that shouldn't happen or else they will not be able to or choose not to in order to keep your status in doubt.

At this point with 2 scum left, we have every reason to use mechanical advantages and no reason to YOLO it up in here.

If I precog you realize I cannot kill Gamma yes?

I can do one or the other not both.

[Toranaga]

9. Unless otherwise specified, players may only use one Superpower per Night Phase. For Aspiring Villains, this is in addition to any factional abilities they may have (including their factional nightkill).
10. Factional Abilities for the Aspiring Villains are not treated as Superpowers.

two things here:

first of all, scum has factional abilities outside of the available superpowers. that's not a mod lie because mod never said the superpowers were the only abilities in the game.

second of all, it seems by the phrasing that nancy could have SS'ed both her night kill and sakura's petrify. so mathblade really didn't need to have acted at night for these things to have happened and could have been 100% nancy doing.

hitting a wall with this but at least I'm mapping out what abilities were used.

[Toranaga]

you can kill gamma as a day action tomorrow just fine, mathblade.

you should do it.

[MathBlade]

you can kill gamma as a day action tomorrow just fine, mathblade.

you should do it.

I am talking with Drixx not scum thank you very much.

[Toranaga]

you can kill gamma as a day action tomorrow just fine, mathblade.

you should do it.

I am talking with Drixx not scum thank you very much.

yes but you can still kill gamma tomorrow. you're saying you can't, but that's false because your sui will count as next cycle's action, while precog will count as this cycle's action.

[MathBlade]

And I am fully aware that I can do it during the day but Drixx was specifically testing me at night what I do.

If I precog that test is invalid.

[MathBlade]

you can kill gamma as a day action tomorrow just fine, mathblade.

you should do it.

I am talking with Drixx not scum thank you very much.

yes but you can still kill gamma tomorrow. you're saying you can't, but that's false because your sui will count as next cycle's action, while precog will count as this cycle's action.

I am saying no such thing.

I am saying that if I precog Drixx’s other test is invalid.

[Toranaga]

no one should use suicide bombing at night because scum can have power echo, yes? it's definitely not a good idea.