Open 737: Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Gamma Emerald]

Mathdino's playing?

No, but I wish he was, he'd break this setup in no time flat

[ruru]

i think i would have just called you obvtown, pocketed you, and shot you at some convenient time as scum tbh

i don't think i bother going this route as scum like this, especially since you said you thought i get pl'd the next day if i'm wrong

but you've since then made it clear that

you

didn't think you'd get lynched tomorrow so this is just another case of me projecting my own thought process onto you when in reality you might not have thought of scumreading me as that risky

and you never did commit to a confident scumread on me that would actually get you lynched tomorrow

so yes I initially townread you for this but I no longer see it as particularly clearing

i think empty slots are basically exactly what vig shots are for

Um, the

whole point

of voting on vig shots is so we can use it like a lynch and target widely scumread players and get associative/gamestate reads and not shoot prs not like a "lol let's shoot the hard null afk slot" even though there are 2 potential investigative roles that are much better suited to hard null slots anyway

Do you have any town meta where you expressed a similar sentiment?

Unless of course you think v/la is scummy

(ironically I think v/la

is

slightly scummy but you've made it perfectly clear you don't.)

i don't know if my reads are good enough in a general sense to bop me tho; i have tendency to get hard-tunneled, which can last several dayphases and i'm not very good at breaking out of it by myself; i usually need someone like math to talk me out of it

Okay whatever if we're going this route

I think you're a strong player and I think you have decently high scum equity and you're not innoing me which you should be doing as town here and you're arguing against being boped which is how I normally deal with players whom I think are stronger than me

If you want to just exist in the game and have no accountability for a slot that you should be able to read and have no accountability for not getting shot then you should probably just be lynched.

i'm kinda aware that i might be tunneled here which is partially why i'm not going full-force on this, especially since both vex and a50 think you're town. also i think my reads get better the later on in the game i am; like i'm aware that my mid-day1 reads aren't always great so i kinda take them with a grain of salt

Town skitter lynches mathdino d1 and tunnels obvtown oxy who had double everyone else's postcount for 2 days straight and doesn't afraid of anything even when she's wrong so I don't know why you're discounting your reads ahead of time here again

And "am I tunneling?" is something I said in 1859 because I knew my scumread was on town

[Vex Vience]

ill reply and catchup after work

[skitter30]

ok if we want to go this route

vig - viewtopic.php?p=10282567#p10282567 (midway through the post; i say vig pl-worthy players; i have a general rant about vigging nm as the best way to sort him)

viewtopic.php?p=9926573#p9926573

like i generally think that the vig exists to take care of pl-worthy slots so that we don't have to spend a lynch on it

viewtopic.php?p=9901266#p9901266 (wanted to vig creature for hard-lurking two stack-the-decks ago; incidentally he was scum and it would have been helpful if *someone* hadn't talked me out of it)

trying not tunnel because else i do stupid things like lynch math day1 and turn the gamestate into a shitshow while i 1v1 people:

viewtopic.php?p=10273938#p10273938

viewtopic.php?p=10181339#p10181339

viewtopic.php?p=10127374#p10127374

viewtopic.php?p=10132703#p10132703

it's not like i'm afraid of 1v1'ing or anything and i'll happily get into it if i think i'm right; i kinda like 1v1 and debating with people and, well, winning those sorts of arguments.

i just try to avoid it when i'm not completely sold on the read because it sometimes is kinda damaging to the gamestate (cough both of the newbies you've referenced cough) and i'm not 100% convinced you're scum right now, not enough to make a 1v1 about it that must be resolved at this moment via lynching you or me.

like i'll 1v1 if i'm very confident if i'm right (or if i think that people are pushing me for stupid reasons and i want to pick their argments apart). i'm not very confident that i'm right on you right now. i don't have much interest in picking a fight over something i'm not confident about, especially since i know i can very very easily get carried away over the tunneling and make like 10 pages of walling back and forths that nobody wants to read that makes everyone else kinda tune out of the game (cough two jungle-republics ago cough) and my read on you isn't strong enough that i'm willing to fuck the gamestate over with it right now

and deathtunneling is not a thing i can really fake as scum

viewtopic.php?p=10207932#p10207932

====

idk i really don't think i bother waffling around with a nullscum read on you as scum; at the very least i think i modulate my read once i realize i'm getting flak for it

i haven't commited ot a confident read because i'm not that confident. like i said before - i don't think you've like actively scumtold but your tone is more similar to the scumgame and i don't think you've towntold in the way i need you to to locktown you. i also think that we're fairly early in the game and that i can take some more time/sorting to come to a conclusion either way

i don't townread you enough to inno you at this stage. i just don't.

i think that in general my reads lategame are a lot better than early game - like i've been correct in xylo all but once but i've more than once been on a day1 mislynch (which tends to happen because i get tunneled early which is why i'm like trying not to do that), or townread scum day1

i don't know if you try to legit push for my lynch as scum here in this gamestate because a) i don't think it's actually happening any time soon and b) that's a fairly unpopular opinion that people are legitimately getting voted over (ie two people are voting frank right now at least in part because he's scumreading me)

i don't think that saying 'i need more time to sort you' is the same thing as saying i want to 'just exist in the game and have no accountability for a slot that you should be able to read and have no accountability for not getting shot '

[Vex Vience]

Still waiting on ru and a50 to talk to me

... and I'm still waiting for you to explain why you're nullreading me when you're calling the majority of my content scummy self-meta and not giving any further analysis

Your readslist has only three townreads in a game with twelve players

Two of them are "leans", and one of them is a "small lean"

so basically I think I'm in the "lynch later" pile but you don't think it's politically viable so you just called me null

Youre expecting waaayyyyy too much from an early D1 reads list.

Why do I need to have such binary reads right now anyway?

Is it that unusual that I have such a big null pile?

Yeah you had a lot of self meta, which is bad. Way more scum motivation than town.

if i can make a wall reads list like 4 irl days into d1, u should have no problem doing the same at this point in d1

[Gamma Emerald]

Some peoe form reads differently/at different rates

[Vex Vience]

Some peoe form reads differently/at different rates

yes but my point is if i can make a wall post 3/4 days into d1, frank should have no issues making one about 7 days into d1 because there’s so much more content.

[ruru]

i think that in general my reads lategame are a lot better than early game - like i've been correct in xylo all but once but i've more than once been on a day1 mislynch (which tends to happen because i get tunneled early which is why i'm like trying not to do that), or townread scum day1

Like almost everyone has bad d1 reads but bop shouldn't apply to you lategame because reasons

And bop on someone you know how to toneread shouldn't apply to you because reasons

i don't think that saying 'i need more time to sort you' is the same thing as saying i want to 'just exist in the game and have no accountability for a slot that you should be able to read and have no accountability for not getting shot '

I don't think arguing that bop shouldn't apply to you is the same thing as saying "i need more time to sort you'

[skitter30]

Like almost everyone has bad d1 reads but bop shouldn't apply to you lategame because reasons

????

i don't think i said anywhere that bop shouldn't apply to me lategame? in fact i said that my reads lategame are a lot better than earlygame - i trust my reads lategame a lot more than i trust my reads earlygame, which is why i'm not commiting to a read on you just yet; i don't think it's right to turn on tunnel mode when i'm not convinced of the read here

i don't entirely understand what you're taking issue with honestly

And bop on someone you know how to toneread shouldn't apply to you because reasons

i'm telling you that on tone i don't think you've towntold

or at least, definitely not strongly enough to inno you for

and when i said i wasn't townreading you because your engagement wasn't what i expected you agreed with me so i don't know what you want from me exactly ... ?

I don't think arguing that bop shouldn't apply to you is the same thing as saying "i need more time to sort you'

i said like six times that i don't think i can commit to a read on you right now

i don't think that my reads day1 are good enough to be bop'd

==

like i almost feel like you're trying to pick a fight with me or something? or that we're talking past each other?

[ruru]

vig pl-worthy players

You're talking about pling a slot that's hours from being force replaced that's completely different from nm.

[ruru]

like i almost feel like you're trying to pick a fight with me or something? or that we're talking past each other?

You're passive-aggressively shading everything I do and half of your questions don't even feel like you're trying to sort me in good faith

Like what do you expect me to do in this situation?

[ruru]

I'm saying you should be boped a) if you confidently scumread me and I flip town or b) if it's lategame and you haven't found scum

a) is a personal expectation based on our game history

b) is because you're a strong player as both alignments

i don't know if my reads are good enough in a general sense to bop me tho; i have tendency to get hard-tunneled, which can last several dayphases and i'm not very good at breaking out of it by myself; i usually need someone like math to talk me out of it

This is as far as I can tell you undermining your own reads in a general sense and saying you categorically shouldn't be boped

[skitter30]

vig pl-worthy players

You're talking about pling a slot that's hours from being force replaced that's completely different from nm.

yes, i think an empty slot is a good vig shot; until/unless the slot produces content i think that's one of the best ways a vig slot can be expended

==

like i almost feel like you're trying to pick a fight with me or something? or that we're talking past each other?

You're passive-aggressively shading everything I do and half of your questions don't even feel like you're trying to sort me in good faith

Like what do you expect me to do in this situation?

i feel like this is what you're doing to me

i feel like you're trying to pick a fight or find something you can start an argument over

==

I'm saying you should be boped a) if you confidently scumread me and I flip town or b) if it's lategame and you haven't found scum

a) is a personal expectation based on our game history

b) is because you're a strong player as both alignments

i don't confidentaly scumread you right now

it has nothing to do with optics or what i think will happen after you flip; i really, really, really don't care about those things and i think can outargue just about anything if i'm not v/la to avoid a mislynch on me

(maybe not a fake-guilty; i've never had to try that)

i don't confidentally scumread you right now because i don't think you've really been actively scummy but rather that your tone matches more the newbie than the open

*things that i can't talk about right now*

==

This is as far as I can tell you undermining your own reads in a general sense and saying you categorically shouldn't be boped

you were talking about not-reading you right specifically

i was explaining why i don't think i trust my read on you right now because i can kinda see some of the signs that indicate that i might be tunneled, and that therefore i don't think the read is strong enough to start a thing over right now

and also that i don't put as much credence in my day1 reads as in my later game reads after there have been flips and wagons and associatves to sort through

[ruru]

This game's awful

[Gamma Emerald]

This game's awful

How about you interact with other slots?

[ruru]

the slots that I'm most interested in right now (hws/sky/cjv) are all afk

well I guess I'm interested in this: how are you reading frank/hws/sky/antihero/enigma?

[Vex Vience]

catchup from me comes in an hour or so

[Vex Vience]

also im wanting to hear from ceejay now before they also just lurk out

[Vex Vience]

Nothing. I concede that with as many players holding back we have nothing better to do .. unless of course you wanna be Jeff Daniels and I can be Jim Carrey. No? Didn't think so, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

how do u know i wouldnt say yes?

Vex I'm not asking for a wall, but a little more than a "feeling" would be nice. the auto town read just seems confident for D1

i like skitters tone over all.
i feel like shes trying to actively gamesolve and scumhunt rn, unlike u

Someone entertain me

ok

What standards are those so we can get a little more specific

I dunno. You're NOT using any.

Also,

IF SOMEONE CLAIMS A PR TODAY

DO NOT CC

Spoiler: Here's why:

Generally speaking, doomed scum will fake a claim to out the most dangerous PR (if exists) according to the modifications (or lack thereof) they picked. If that PR isn't in the game then there will be no CC anyway. Now let me not go into too much details and go straight to the point:

- Claiming Vigilante when a Town Vig does exist = Just shoot the claimer. If they're BP we'll deal with it on D2, but there is always a chance the Vig will kill the scum w.o. the need to out themselves.

- Claiming Bodyguard: Chances are he BG will flip sometime during the game anyway, so we will know it was a fake claim. (Actually this one "may claim if they want to", since they're dying anyway, and most probably protecting the IC, so I'll leave it to your best judgement)

- Claiming Tracker: Obviously we want results from the Tracker, and the longer they live the more reliable their results will be, so no need to eat a bullet on N1 in exchange of lynching a scumster on D1. I hope you know what to do in this case though.

- Claiming Roleblocker: Also more valuable towards the game end. Best play is to block the fake claimer thus forcing scum to use someone else to do the kill AND making them lose their modification if they have one.

- Claiming Goon Cop: This role is intended to find us at least one scum if it could. If the fake claimer is a goon (and the only one) then you should claim, but how do we know that? Best play is to try and find others (if any) and if you get shot we will know whom to lynch anyway, but if you do get a guilty on someone else then that's when you claim and you give us TWO scums instead of just one.

If you disagree with any of this, feel free to do what you will, but

please

don't discuss alternative strategies. Discussing certain details may still give your role away w.o. even the need for scum to fake claim anything.

Thanks for your attention.

2/10

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Almost50

You can't yell don't talk spec after this lol.
Your vote stinks too

y cant he? i see it as a valid point to not try to discuss spec after posting that
his vote actually is alright too

Someone entertain me

how?

Who's obvtown?

skitter imo

Still waiting on ru and a50 to talk to me

... and I'm still waiting for you to explain why you're nullreading me when you're calling the majority of my content scummy self-meta and not giving any further analysis

Your readslist has only three townreads in a game with twelve players

Two of them are "leans", and one of them is a "small lean"

so basically I think I'm in the "lynch later" pile but you don't think it's politically viable so you just called me null

Youre expecting waaayyyyy too much from an early D1 reads list.

Why do I need to have such binary reads right now anyway?

Is it that unusual that I have such a big null pile?

Yeah you had a lot of self meta, which is bad. Way more scum motivation than town.

i mean u had longer to make a reads list than i did, ergo u should have less reads unless u didnt really try to make it

So scum will avoid it. Meaning town questions it. Except one of them is scum. Makes perfect sense.

How do you decide which one is the scum?

How do you come to the conclusion that it is remotely worth it to even try this?

Nothing makes sense about the whole thing.

Town have no reason to lie so early in the game for such a trivial reason.

no it does make sense to me
y wouldnt one scum try to blend in by questioning it?

I'm catching up in the middle of the vig talk and don't see why scum A51 would want to gambit bait the vig shot... As either alignment? I feel the only way to resolve this is shooting him and if he doesn't die he's the BP goon? Or is tired!hws being dumb here

im not sure either, still trying to figure out that

I feel like Vex is definitely town from his efforts, not sure about anyone else

"Effort is alignment indicative, but only for Vex"

Its not the effort itself, but it's directed towards that I townread. He seems dedicated to advancing the game in a pro town way

And I'm not?

i dont think claiming bp mafia is very game advancing

couple that with the fact that he's refusing to answer my questions

Hello, Eragon. Is that you? "It's his fault anyway, because I'm never wrong!"

And when did I become the center of your universe? Do you realize your one and only obsession has become A50? Are you not looking for 3 scums? Are you not interested in sorting anyone else???

also im not eragon
i would tell u if u got it right or not... after the game

still dont like a50, especially after saying they were mafia bp
will reply to the rest of the things sunday

VOTE: frank
thats for the skitter sr
like skitter is almost certainly town to me

claiming scum bp i think was in jest; i don't scumread that

i don't really care that frank is scumreading me; i'm more concerned that he was talking to me like he thought i was town just above giving me a scumread

it could be but it still brings up the question of y would he?

This is going over my head you guys

same

ManWithNoName has not responded to his prod.

---

ceejayvinoya replaces ManWithNoName. Welcome!

how long till ceejay lurks out guys?

Vex
Feels town to me for now. I think just with the sheet amount of content, some scum intentions would slip through somewhere. As I read through, I don't really see much of this in places. He is actively putting pressure and scum hunting, particularly the interaction with A50.

--
Night actions
(stemming from a50's 321). We don't know what PRs are in play and many of the actions are not conclusive for town. E.g. a vig can be roleblocked etc. D1 discussion on hypo night actions I don't are particularly helpful, and tbh I feel it is a little bit AI towards scum as there are too many unknowns at this stage for someone townie to even want to engage in all this hypo stuff.

like i said what else did i really have to do at that moment, was waiting on others to post so i could refine my earlier reads

1. Don't CC any fake claims
2. Vote for who you want to (hypo) vig with hurt tags
3. Hypo cop results tomorrow

UNVOTE:
Waiting a bit

whoa, you're just running with ruru's plan?

Yeh? It benefits town?

i agree this is helpful towards town
y are u against it?

It;s like the VT Cop (VT, not just Vanilla) in a role madness. The VT Cop will only be able to identify the one VT in the game. If there are "named townies" (like, if there's a Miller with no alignment Cop in play or a Nurse with no Doctor in play, or a Macho Citizen.. etc. they will give a "not a VT" result still). If that was a VANILLA Cop though then only true Vanilla Townies and Mafia Goons will give them a positive result.

P-edit: A50 is NEVER a good "Vig" hit. A50 is a good NK for scum and a good Investigation target for Town unless he obv!Towns in which case the Mafia are sure to take care of him on N1. In short, you don't need to worry about me before D3 (and chances I won't even be alive by then)

tbh i feel like creature or myself is the most likely n1 kill
the other one certainly gets killed the next night imo

the slots that I'm most interested in right now (hws/sky/cjv) are all afk

well I guess I'm interested in this: how are you reading frank/hws/sky/antihero/enigma?

frank is scum
hws is null
sky is null
anti is null
enigma is town

would have to look back at {hws, sky, anti} iso a bit more to give u something past null

[ofrhz]

Skygazer has been prodded.

[Skygazer]

Oh no!

[ruru]

Actually how about this

VOTE: Skygazer
HURT: Frank

ellitell and frank needs to die but sky is more likely to be bp I think

[ceejayvinoya]

Hi!

I'll get to this when I come home from school.

That's in about 5 to 6 hours.

[FrankJaeger]

Busy weekend catching up soon

[ofrhz]

.