Miccro 821: Welcome Micc Mafia! (D1)

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VOTE: MafMen

Maf stands for mafia. Direct admission of guilt.

[2 718281828459]

Raise your hand if you

still

say Micc as either "mihk", "myk", or possibly "miss".

I am not an alt.

I think there is still one player who has not posted?

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So is this a case of LAUWSN? (Look At Us, We're So Null)

[2 718281828459]

Just so we all know, Penguin put MafMen to L-1.

[2 718281828459]

I called it out because we are in a 7p game and did not want someone to accihammer.

I guess I like some early pressure. Although not sure if the pressure is real since at least 2 of the votes (including mine) were RVS.

Penguin, why did you wait to answer bill? I might not have been online and you would have waited for quite a while.

(Also, especially early on, I find it easier to make content when I have something directed at me to respond to, or something I can actively pursue ((which is not that common)). This happens with any alignment.)

[2 718281828459]

Uh, when I "called Penguin out" on the L-1, I never meant to imply that I

disagreed

with it, but more that I wanted to

emphasize

the reality of it.
This is not inconsistent with me not removing the vote.

[2 718281828459]

I am lost...

Unofficial vote count.
MafMen (1): 2 718281828459
Inferno (2): bill1148, horrordude0215
PenguinPower (1): Alonzo

Not Voting: all others

[2 718281828459]

For the record, at this point while I do have a slight scum lean on Inferno, I am not willing to vote there. Or really anyone else at this time.
UNVOTE:

(Is anyone here paranoid that any lynch or night action could result in something ridiculous and unexpected happening? Like a "boomerang" or "2x forced vengeful" ability? I hope not, because I know better than to waste my time worrying about such things.)

Ugh... early day 1 is so hard. Can I just like hibernate until we get into the later day 1?

[2 718281828459]

Actually, instead of just saying day 1 is "so hard", I should actually give it a try. P-Edit: Here you go.

Code: Select all

         Neutral
       ___________
Scum  /  3  4  5  \  Town
Lean / 2         6 \ Lean
    /           /   \
   / 1         /   7 \
   |          /      |
Scum 0       /     8 Town
   ---------O---------

(the 6 is not related to anything in particular)

• Alonzo: We kind of have to excuse the low-quality posts etc due to life circumstances. Although, he did do 2 RVS votes...
  NA
• bill: Also sort of left, and has made 2 posts that are game-advancing (42 and 58). Lurking is anti-town, but not scummy.
  3.5
• horrordude: I like the way that they build an argument for voting Inferno even though I am not ready to vote there myself. The methods that they used are pro-town.
  5
• Inferno: "Scum." is just too abrasive. And then you say you were not serious. Then you vote, and then take it back because you "almost" hammered. If you had not hammered, why take the vote away?
  2.5
  for now.
• MafMen: Rebutting the RVS vote is a little silly, but why say I am a town read and then suddenly reply that it makes no sense? And why is it scummy to point out in a factual way that someone is at L-1? Even with all this, it could be completely innocent, so
  4
  is my read here.
• PenguinPower: Hey, did you know someone
  almost
  accihammered? The posts have several fallacies but I cannot find anything really
  scummy
  here.
  4

[2 718281828459]

PenguinPower: Hey, did you know someone almost accihammered? The posts have several fallacies but I cannot find anything really scummy here. 4

They didn't almost "accihammered" if you think they are scum. Given your read on Inferno, that seems to be the case.

Also, feel free to point out any fallacies in my posts instead of making a sweeping statement. Hard to respond to those, and I don't think that I have made any fallacious statements.

First off, it is possible for scum to truly hammer accidentally -- it is just

also

possible for them to fake it.
Second, most of the fallacies were about how you handled me stating in an informative way that someone was at L-1.

Actually, instead of just saying day 1 is "so hard", I should actually give it a try. P-Edit: Here you go.

• Alonzo: We kind of have to excuse the low-quality posts etc due to life circumstances. Although, he did do 2 RVS votes...
  NA
• bill: Also sort of left, and has made 2 posts that are game-advancing (42 and 58). Lurking is anti-town, but not scummy.
  3.5
• horrordude: I like the way that they build an argument for voting Inferno even though I am not ready to vote there myself. The methods that they used are pro-town.
  5
• Inferno: "Scum." is just too abrasive. And then you say you were not serious. Then you vote, and then take it back because you "almost" hammered. If you had not hammered, why take the vote away?
  2.5
  for now.
• MafMen: Rebutting the RVS vote is a little silly, but why say I am a town read and then suddenly reply that it makes no sense? And why is it scummy to point out in a factual way that someone is at L-1? Even with all this, it could be completely innocent, so
  4
  is my read here.
• PenguinPower: Hey, did you know someone
  almost
  accihammered? The posts have several fallacies but I cannot find anything really
  scummy
  here.
  4

Would love to hear your reasons as to how I come across as "lurking." Personally, I felt that way about you immediately after your "Mafmen at L-1 kthxbai" post, though I was willing to wait longer to say anything to see if that held consistent later.

When I made that list, you had only made a few posts, and they were almost all filler. I realize that "Lurking is anti-town, but not scummy" seemed more like an accusation than the intent which was to just inform.
Oh yeah, and in complicated day 1s, I prefer to make daily big posts than 6 tiny posts per day. (It becomes the opposite when down to 3-5 players with not much going on.)

oooh this is new... where did you get this from?

I made it.

{Penguin, Alonzo, Inferno}
{horror, bill}
{2}

2 - His early callout of the l-1 is phrased really awkwardly, not liking his tone, especially the one I quoted in 122. Slight Scum.
Penguin - Town by default if 2 is scum, seems really dedicated to this game. Slight Town.
horror/bill - One of these is scum, one of these is town, I'm not sure which, but I'm confident in the fact they can't both be town, null.
Inferno - Town by default, like his tone. Slight Town.
Alonzo - Guttown, not a strongread. Slight Town.

Post 122 was this, right?

it's still a callout nonetheless

but if youre so cautious you could unvote yourself rather than just sticking to it and notifying everyone about it being l-1 which is as if you intended for him to look scummy because of it.

At the time, I liked the L-1 just because it might cause a little bit of pressure even though I knew well that two of the three votes were random. As far as I can tell, it did generate content, although not completely what I expected.

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@Penguin: OK, I guess I misattributed a post to you. I thought you made either this point twice or you got off-put twice by my MafMen-at-L-1 comment.

I called it out because we are in a 7p game and did not want someone to accihammer.

Why are you concerned about a derphammer? This isn't the Newbie queue, and my vote was literally right below the votecount.

[2 718281828459]

Like, I wrongly thought that

PenguinPower

had either
(1) gotten on me for my L-1 notice

multiple times

even after I explained it, or
(2) gotten on me

multiple times

for talking about accihammers even after I explained that scum can truly hammer accidentally.

It must have been someone else.

[2 718281828459]

I am starting to get lost here...

[2 718281828459]

It does not help that I think I accidentally lost a post I was writing, and I cannot remember what it was.

[2 718281828459]

Here, I will look at Inferno in-depth. The quotes are just in the order that I decided to click the Q+ buttons.

Spoiler: A Bit Long

Score: 4.00

(uses the same 0-8 scale)

Horror, I really don’t have a response for you, because to be quite honest, what you’re saying is a very accurate way of looking at the situation. If I was trying to read myself unbiased, I would come to the exact same conclusions you did.
Which is one of the reasons I’m finding you Town this game, because you have a very genuine grasp on the game so far.

OK, so is this just admitting that it is legit to read you as scum? Why not explain how your actions would make sense from the perspective of a townie? This loses you 0.20 points.

Score: 3.80

Hi
I haven’t had time yet to do a major catchup on the thread
And so may not for a fair amount of time.
What I do have is:
E might be scum?
Horror is pro town.
I suck at this game.
Will elaborate next chance I get.

You never elaborated on this for many posts. Why might I be scum? You lose another 0.30 points for that.

Score: 3.50

Okay Penguin
So far I find that MafMen feels very waffly and does not seem to have very good answers to your questions. I would also say that the tone of his posts comes from scum, but that’s just me.

Either way, I would probably sort this into the scum pile.
VOTE: MafMen

This seems like a legit read but you completely ignored me and horrordude. So you get 0.10 points for the read.

Score: 3.60

Oh I nearly had a heart attack
I thought I hammered MafMen there
I’ve got to pay more attention to vcs.
UNVOTE:

So wait. What happened?
(1) You tried to hammer and then realized you did not, so you un-voted. Why hammer so easily? That would cost you 2-3 points there. So I

give the benefit of the doubt

and assume it is...
(2) You almost thought you accidentally hammered, and realized you did not. So you un-voted even though you did not even need to. But I thought MafMen was scum in your view? You lose 0.3 points for this inconsistency.

Score: 3.30

Let's rewind some more.

Since discussion needs to happen:

Your PM.
Should have a player name in it.
That is your alt.
I am quadz08.
Penguin is Kison.
Who are you?

Um...no. I thought we were just joking. Why would you claim your Role Pm?

So far it's looking like ListMod name is NAI though. That's good.

Scum.
Why would flavor ever be AI? And what is so wrong with claiming it?
VOTE: Penguin

Scum.
OK, maybe not that definitively, but I did that to mock your post. See how differently it feels when

you

are the target? You do not need to be that abrasive so quickly. And you said "Scum" and not something like "I hate this" which is an emotional statement. Your behavior there loses you 0.3 points.

Score: 3.00

Bill, if you have something useful to say about my play, do so.
Otherwise, shut up. No one wants your crappy trash.

Alonzo: Heck no. I only have two strong reads across 6 people. Not nearly enough.

Inferno, if you cannot be nice, then shut up. No one wants your bitterness unless you are scum and you keep doing it so that we lynch you.
(Again, this is mocking your tone. Tone in and of itself is not AI, but it intensifies my scum read on you. Taking off 0.1 for that.

Score: 2.90

Final Score:

2.90

.
Let's now turn to bill and see if we get a higher score there.

[2 718281828459]

Short answer: I intend to vote for Inferno as soon as I confirm that it will not hammer.

Spoiler: Kind of long

Let's start with our standard

4.00

and see where we go.

Ok gang. Mrs Alonzo is in the hospital RN bringing forth Spawn of Alonzo. Not sure how this is going to effect things gamewise, but your patience is appreciated.

Alonzo

Congrats.

unvote
Vote Inferno

-0.1

for the fact that doing a second RVS is usually not done and you never explained your vote. All non-RVS votes should be explained.

3.9

Why did you vote for Mafmen?

I like wagons as a vehicle to move on from RVS. I find they are good starting points to generate content from players beyond "voting for the lulz." I also like to use VCA as a large portion of my figuring things out.

Meh. 271 brings up a good point about 2 votes being RVS. Not necessarily real "pressure," in my opinion.

[...]

I fail the see the benefit of listing which mod we are, other than for scummy rolefishing purposes.

Here Penguin
This is the shading I’m talking about
I find it ironic that you actually quoted this and yet still couldn’t find it

Also, I’m not a fan of it either, but I honestly don’t have a way to follow up on or step gracefully away from s***ty play
If anyone has a tip or two for that, it would be great if they could share

"I'm just bad" is not an encouraging defense.

Where was "I'm just bad"?

Uh, when I "called Penguin out" on the L-1, I never meant to imply that I

disagreed

with it, but more that I wanted to

emphasize

the reality of it.
This is not inconsistent with me not removing the vote.

Sowing the seeds of dissent?

Uhhh... what?

Neither of these last two changes the score, they are just confusing.

Okay Penguin
So far I find that MafMen feels very waffly and does not seem to have very good answers to your questions. I would also say that the tone of his posts comes from scum, but that’s just me.

Either way, I would probably sort this into the scum pile.
VOTE: MafMen

Oh I nearly had a heart attack
I thought I hammered MafMen there
I’ve got to pay more attention to vcs.
UNVOTE:

First, I have the complete opposite interpretation- he feels town to me. Second, in the span of three minutes between these posts, you went from voting him and calling him prob-scum, to going back two pages, reading the official vote count, realizing that your vote would be fourth, then formulating another post plus unvoting when it wasn't even necessary?

[/quote]
This earns you

+0.2

for your calling out Inferno's... weird play.

4.1

Still trying to decide between whether Inferno is actually dense, or a scum trying to play obv-dumb.

And no idea where the pro-town reading of horror is coming from. Scummiest player here besides Inferno.

And no idea where the pro-scum reading of horror is coming from. One of the most null players here.
(I kind of like mocking posts.)

-0.1

4.0

Inferno has resorted to full-on nut licking.

...ok? Like can you elaborate.

Bill, if you have something useful to say about my play, do so.
Otherwise, shut up. No one wants your crappy trash.

Well saying "terrible" over and over again would be mundane.

And actually, I do think it was useful because it sums up your two previous posts perfectly.

Yeah, I kind of have to award you some town points for this.

+0.25

because Inferno's play is both annoying and nontown.

Final Score: 4.25

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VOTE: Inferno (also, that

2.90

was not supposed to be a greenish color...)

L

-

1

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I want to say something about 2.718 and our previous game together but I'm having trouble articulating what I mean without giving a really wishy washy read.

TheTLDR is E! iwasn't the easiest townread, And posts like oh look this wagon is L1 just seems so E! Without wanting to put him down his style is quite 'clumsy' from my experience.

Now theres this new 'scum dial' he devised and I dont think E! from last game uses the term 'fallacy', which suggests to me he's been on the wiki reading articles and swatting up.

I assume "reading articles and swatting up" is meant in a non-AI way? Because I did decide to change my strategy a bit. I know they always say that you have to play to win this game and not try to build a meta for future games. However, I decided to try to do

both

: building a new meta (I hated the old one... 1876 was a total scum failure) while also playing to win the current games.

Im not however gonna give a read on how he flips here, because I really dont know.

Well, at least you care to admit it.

(Why does my name keep getting factorialed?)

[2 718281828459]

Alonzo: From what I could tell, it seemed like if Inferno were somehow innocent, then bill would be scum. So I looked at both and thought about who was more scummy, and it came out as Inferno. So I voted for Inferno. This should be a better pressure wagon than the "pressure wagon" on MafMen.

Let's get the content going!

[2 718281828459]

Replace out.

Whoa, whoa...

Is this telling

MafMen

to replace out, or declaring that

you

are replacing out?

[2 718281828459]

All right, the reason I only gave 2 ISO reads is that I thought that Inferno was scum but I wanted to read bill because bill seemed like the one to be scum if Inferno was not, given their interactions.

ISO reads coming soon.

[2 718281828459]

OK, let me start with

Alonzo

, who is both first alphabetically and the one who most seems to be requesting a scan.

Spoiler: This is Long

I think Maf men is town here based off personal meta**

small print
In my two previous games with maf men I called scum when he was town, Then in the next, read town where there was scum.

But that aside, Im thinking he's town here, as this is more in line with our first encounter.

Congratulations on your first game-advancing post all game! None of the previous posts (of which you made like 6-10) were game advancing at all.

Can you run the math on my slot, I wanna see how I score!

OK, I admit I missed this post completely.

Analyze my slot!

The day I read this post I was too busy to do so. Now that I have more time I can do so.

Jokes aside, E! seems to be giving reads selectively here, whilst also maintaining his clumsy ways. I cant see use for either when pushed.

The selective reads were because

Yo Horrordude did I ever tell you how much I hate your avatar??

Everytime I try to read one of your posts, I just end up tunneling the clown

I disable avatars altogether. Signatures, names, and other profile stats are enough to differentiate users.

Inferno's most pro-town post just happens to be asking for a replacement...

Starting to think the same about Mafmen

But are you thinking the same about Inferno? MafMen is just sort of neutral for me, although perhaps I should read that slot...

Final verdict: Not very much information, but what is there is townish. So I say Alonzo gets a

5

.

P-Edit: UC Voyager... how is that

not

scum hunting?

[2 718281828459]

I will go ahead and read MafMen/UC Voyager.

[2 718281828459]

Here we go with MafMen... hold it... did I not already do this?

2's a townread rn

This was not explained.

I've never seen it happen. Only times I have seen have truly been accidents by town.

Thoughts on Inferno and 2 718281828459?

p-edit

Why is 2 718281828459 a townread?

nvm realised how ass that read is and how it makes no sense

This was not explained.

Absent you voting me without understanding the votecount (hey! remember when you were worried about the derphammer on you...that's how they happen)...

So, specifically, your thoughts on:

I really don’t have a response for you @Penguin because a) I wasn’t completely serious with that read and 2) someone else implied what I accused you of, and I just mentally linked it with you

p-edit

So, why did you townread him to begin with?

it was

because

he called out the l-1 thing

but now i realise it was his vote on me not inferno so honestly im flipping it as a scumread.

can you give more context on the quote?

You flipped it into a scum read. Really. And so far you never really explained it at all.

Could you explain your inferno read a bit more for me, Maf? Specifically, could you respond to Penguin's 80?

the backpeddling is bad, but im not pursuing inferno unless the game isn't over with 2, horror/bill

I never saw explanations about any of this.

This all looks kind of scummy to me. But then look at this:

okay...

I dont have any strong opinions on what i read, but i didn't really take my time, so i might go through again


i do want to look more into these past 3 pages. and i want to iso a few people, and try to make an opinion.

everyone? what are you current stances on the game. because im a bit behind, any opinions that are up to date are better than me looking at your opinions from several pages ago.

2 718's posts are very interesting. he created this rating system to describe how scummy people are. other than that, i see nothing that resembles scum or town hunting. All together, there isnt much he has done that has helped progress the game.

I really like what im seeing from horror. his post show good opinions, as well as him trying to scum hunt and he is doing a good job of explaining his ideas, and is not vague.

Alonzo's posts all seem very short, but i dont know weather to think its bad or good. it is kind of dull, but still. id like to see some more of your thoughts.

This looks nice and townish, although the only thing I do not like is that you see "nothing that resembles scum or town hunting". I have done a fair amount of that and I have definitely helped progress the game. Your first sentence, to be frank, is mostly bunk. Remember that argument with Penguin?
And yeah, scum hunting like the way you suggest in 226 is very difficult in a 7-player game when you are busy, several people are getting replaced, and you are in disputes with the players.

I think your slot has moved back to the null

4

position.

[2 718281828459]

I am lost, busy, and unsure who to read next. I think all my reads are out of date, so that means I will have 6 people to read.

This might take until Friday or Saturday. The reason I have not been scum hunting is that for me the thing that works best is to make one post per day that goes off of everything that happened since the previous day. I have a lot less time than before to use the site. Scum hunting the way that a few have suggested sort of does not work because it involves engaging people in back-and-forth dialogue, which right now is hard when I also have to look at everything else going on.

[2 718281828459]

VOTE: Rob14

1. Rob replaced Inferno, who I already thought was scummy.
2. Post 292 was bunk. Penguin's pushes on me were very town even if I do not agree with their result. Alonzo asking me to read his slot is town because if I were scum and had horrible reasoning, it would backfire a lot.
3. You have no reasons other than PoE to town read me, UCV, bill, and horrordude. In that case, why do you have some of us more town than others? You never really said this.
4. I just do not like Rob14's posts on page 13. Minor details like saying post 198 is "almost immediately afterwards" to post 176 do not help the case at all.

I think Rob is like a 2 now.

[2 718281828459]

I guess my vote was already on Rob from before with Inferno. Well, at least now the vote tag says the correct name.

[2 718281828459]

OK this is confusing. Did someone claim or am I misreading post 339?

I disagree about bill making no townish posts at all. (Although not saying I think bill is town, especially in light of

351

...)

I think the votes are
Me (3): PP, HD, Bill
Rob (2): Me, Alonzo
PenguinPower (1): Rob
Bill (1): UC Voyager

I would be willing to entertain either a Rob lynch, or a Bill lynch (if given enough evidence).

[2 718281828459]

OK, so, after much waiting, I think I have the time and energy to give a read on everyone. But first let me address some things.

351 was not my

only

reason for adding bill to the scum list, but why is it that someone accuses bill of being completely anti-town and all bill responds with is a weird face?

Oh yeah, and I understand where you are coming from with the play-by-play of the scale. For these reads I will only give out my score at the very end.

[2 718281828459]

(Let me start by saying that this is my 4th game and I have a 0-3 record. And also that I recently got insanely busy so posting 3-7 times per day like I used to do is only an option on weekends.)

Let's start with

Alonzo

. Much of the early game is fluff. From 130 to (with the exception of 150 and 181),
Not sure what to make of 193... seems like it could be either scum thinking a (mis)lynch will happen soon, or just generic NAI excitement.
Alonzo also promised to share detailed stances "soon" as of Tuesday, and AFAICT they either never came or were so interspersed in Alonzo's 51 tiny posts (1-2 sentences usually) that I could not find them.
I feel like "It's my Town meta!!" is more of a defense that is designed to make it difficult to refute. And of course if you know your town meta then you can try to play to it as scum.
So I think Alonzo is a scum lean. Nothing really jumps out to move him below a

3

.

Moving on to Bill. Bill's early game seems a little bit like town, but recently that has dropped considerably. I cannot get past how Bill was accused of doing nothing to the town and responded with a face. I would think that a town player would try to show why the claim is wrong. However, in some sense, bill feels a bit like how I was in Newbie 1877 on day 3. I was town there and annoyed with how everything was happening so close to the deadline and we ended up mislynching a person (Crimson97) who I never really thought was that scummy. I got mislynched day 4 for a lot of the stuff I did in late day 3.
I just realized that connection which makes me re-think the Bill lynch. I am putting Bill at a

4

for now. If Bill is scum I think I want to wait for day 2 to lynch him.

Next on the list is horrordude. Horrordude has been consistently trying to analyze the situation, crack open tough nuts, and get reactions out of people. I would have to give them a solid

6.5

for this performance.

Halfway there... now for Inferno + Rob14. I think we can all agree that 34 and 40 were terrible, and 84's appeal to lack of skill is useless. OK, ok, early game was terrible. Let's just bypass 105's unsubstantiated reads and 139's resignation...
OK, you know I cannot seriously overlook a bunch of low-quality posts. At this point Inferno replaced out and in came Rob. How does Rob say someone (i.e. me) is "solid town" and that it "would take a cop result" in the first four pages? (I mean, personally, this reads as a scum trying to tie himself to a townie to make them both suspicious.)
I also hate how Rob puts so much blame on PenguinPower (who, incidentally, before reading PP's ISO I would say PP is in the 4-5 range from what I remember), and has made several anti-analysis and anti-questioning posts in 292.
Oh yeah, and Rob, you contradicted yourself. If I am solid town, how are Bill and UCV more townish than I am? (293).
358 next to cements this. I have to give out a score of

1

for this slot, and I really hate how mafBlack uses the awful #FF6262 for red when I want a deep red for this, like #EE2222.

I am going to just post this now so I do not lose it, and then get to the other two.

[2 718281828459]

(The reason the read on horrordude is a single line is that there was nothing in particular that jumped out, just a steady stream of town play.)

[2 718281828459]

All right, now for MafMen + UC Voyager.
Well, just UCV. MafMen did some stuff but it all just confuses me. Yeah, MM did the townread on me that flipped to a scum read without any real explanation, but MM did comparably few posts before the replace out that I kind of just want to pretend those posts do not exist.
I have figured out what UCV means about me not scum hunting, so now I think that post may be more town. His aggressive attitude seems like a townie who is naturally aggressive, although one thing that holds me back here is that UCV has accused bill very harshly and has no real evidence. So I think I want to give UCV a

4.5

, although I could be persuaded to make this higher.

PenguinPower seems like another aggressive townie early on. The entire game PP seems to want to get information while debunking posts that he thinks are false. (Evidence: 296 and especially 298)
I also like the way that he brought up Alonzo not giving out the reads that he mentioned on Tuesday. Like with horrordude, not that much

in particular

jumps out, other than what I mentioned. However the town play is weaker (there are lots of small NAI posts mixed in) so I think I give this player a

5.5

.

(By the way, 372 links to the wrong game -- you mean Newbie 1876, right? Where I was scum and lost terribly?)

[2 718281828459]

Moving Forward...

I would like everyone to answer the following questions.

• Who is your biggest scum read, and why? (For me: Rob14, reasons given in post 403.)
• Should we try to get one more L-1 pressure read, or just lynch someone? (I think the former because town is still not that coordinated)
• How confident are you in the town winning if there happen to be
  two scum and five town
  ?

(P-Edit: Alonzo, I did not even remember my previous read when I read you just now. And UCV did more to actually help the town than you did.)

(P-Edit 2: Rob, OK, I understand that now, but your slot has played scummy the whole game, and while I can now move you to a

1.5

, you have not changed my overall view of you.)
(Final P-Edit (408): No. Penguin is too townish for that.)

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In no particular order:
1. I asked the questions because I realized that I needed to start being proactive and try to ask for information and not just sit back and let everyone else do all the questioning.
2. Disproving a case on yourself is NAI but the

way

that PP was doing it struck me as town.
3. Saying it is

only

for pressure

does

remove all pressure. Saying that pressure is

part

of a greater reason (i.e. that you actually think the person has a decent chance of being scum, and is a worthwhile lynch target if they do not respond) does

not

remove the pressure.

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It's painfully obvious how the rest of this day phase is going to play out.

I disagree. Someone could hammer me 5 minutes from now, or 5 minutes from the deadline. Or we might lynch you, or bill. Or

maybe

someone else (perhaps maybe Alonzo?) will do something stupid and

they

will be lynched.

2.718 is almost certainly going to end up voting for me, either later today or sometime tomorrow. He'll probably say something along the lines of "I don't feel good about this, a Rob lynch would be better, but I know I'm town so blah blah blah."

I would only vote for you if there were no other options. I would not say "but I know I'm town so blah blah blah"; I would instead say something like "but evidently people think Bill is scum so let's just see." It would remind me of Newbie 1877, when the town had decided not to lynch UglyDuck (who I had thought was scum for a while) until day 4, and we ended up lynching Crimson, who flipped town.

Rob is in a more precarious position, since he has called me the most pro-town player here. He'll do one of three things (in order of likelihood)

a) Not vote for me or 2.718, instead forcing someone on either my wagon or 2.718's wagon to switch. Then after my ass flips town, he (and 2.718, for that matter) will go around pimping about how they "knew Bill was town/had a feeling he wasn't scum" for some easy town-cred

Hold it, it seems like you are implying that Rob could force someone on your wagon to switch to me?
Also, if you get lynched, I would have already expressed reservations about your lynch

long before

you end up getting lynched, so anyone saying that I was doing it for "easy town-cred" would be misleading.

b) hammer his scum-buddy to earn some town cred

Wait. Are you trying to imply that I am Rob's scum-buddy, or not? (Genuine question.)

c) hammer me

Alonzo still has a decent chance of flipping scum imo, but the entire last page between the other two almost felt like a forced distancing project.

How would it be a distancing project? I do not see what you mean.

2. Disproving a case on yourself is NAI but the way that PP was doing it struck me as town.

Alright, so explain then. You based a lot of your Penguin read on the fact they "want to get information while debunking posts that he thinks are false". Now you're saying your two examples of that aren't alignment indicative based on the debunking but based on something else. I don't see that as consistent.

Uhhh... this is a misrepresentation of what I meant.
I meant that debunking reads

in and of itself

is NAI, but because of the particular manner that Penguin did it, gave him town credits.
He used facts and showed the motivation for town to do what he did (like asking questions). What he did

not

do is non-constructively attack the arguments without creating his own arguments.
That all gave me an intuitive sense of town-ness that is a little bit difficult to put into words.

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Gah, I meant "The entire game" to only apply to "want to get information".

I guess this is what happens when you read someone last after spending 1-1.5 hours on five other people.

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When I said "there are lots of NAI posts mixed in", I meant that horrordude was constantly pro-town on almost every post while you (PenguinPower) made a lot of fluff posts that make the read less strong.

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Because you realized you were about to be lynched?

No, because I received more than one suggestion that I had not done any scum hunting.

I don't find his responses to my questions convincing. It reads as trying to come to the conclusion of town!Penguin so he can keep up his tunnel on me, the only other viable wagon for today.

I want to understand how they are "not convincing". I am not trying to come to a "conclusion"; I am merely trying to defend a read that I admitted when I gave it that I was uncertain.
Even then, you

may

have persuaded me to change PP to a 4 but I saw nothing in that ISO that would specifically make me think PP is

scum

.

I think that you are probably hoping to score a mislynch on me. If anything, it is your arguments that are "not convincing".

You never stated a deadline for when you intend to hammer. I know I am biased but to me it seems like you are going to hammer no matter what and are just letting me squirm a while before finding a "reason" to cast the deciding vote.

[2 718281828459]

You know what, the line

I think that you are probably hoping to score a mislynch on me. If anything, it is your arguments that are "not convincing".

was a bit strong. Pretend I wrote this instead:

Your argument for the Intent to Hammer strikes me as a bit weak and ungrounded, although this could just be my bias.

[2 718281828459]

^ Yeah, that. I'm waiting to see if your claim indicates I should be looking elsewhere.

I did not want to have to say this, but

I am a 1-Shot Bulletproof Townie

.

I know this is going to be unconvincing, but I'm going to say it anyway. I know I'm getting lynched this game, because I replaced into a really scummy slot and Penguin has y'all wrapped around his little finger. If I wanted to just score a mislynch, I would have lolhammered as soon as you were L-1 to deprive the town of further useful information, such as relational tells between me and others.

Then you would have secured your doom. What I suspected is that you want to mislynch me but make it appear that it would be justified so you may actually survive.

It would have helped whomever my scum buddy was for me to do so, and since I'm almost certainly getting lynched tomorrow anyway barring a cop innocent on me or a cop guilty on someone else, that would be the best I could really hope to accomplish.

OK, although what if you are, say, a Serial Killer or the game is 6v1?

As for "not convincing", you either completely botched it when you typed your read of Penguin, with multiple cases of saying things you didn't mean

Multiple?

, or I caught you trying to justify a town read on Penguin without the basis for doing so.

Again, I might be persuaded to move Penguin to a null read but I definitely cannot go below that.

I think the latter is substantially more likely, since you've been generally articulate this game. I just flat-out don't believe #430,

Maybe next time you should try spending more than an hour trying to read six people, and see how many mistakes you make in the 6th read when you are sort of worn out. And make sure that 6th read is someone who is not the easiest to read in the first place.

and when I add the other instances of you back-tracking on that read in #425, it doesn't look great.

Back-tracking is a little strong.

By the way, Penguin, the fact you're still claiming I'm tunneling you is getting weird. I had a scum-read on Alonzo since my catch-up. I've been questioning 2.7 the past two pages. Clearly, I'm not only looking at you.

Also, I just want to note that a 2.7 scum flip

does not clear Penguin

. Absolutely not. Scum!Penguin's vote on Scum!2.7 when it looked like my slot would be mislynched would make a lot of sense, since it distances from their scum partner with minimal risk. No-one was scum-reading 2.7 at the time (that I can recall - correct me if wrong), and Penguin didn't initially provide any reasons, so they can't expect others to suddenly form a wagon. When Penguin did eventually provide reasons for shifting from Inferno (198), they minimized them by noting counter-wagons often don't form in micros and that they're still fine with an Inferno lynch. They still, at that point, did not provide specific reasons 2.7 is scummy. In fact, looking through his ISO, I don't see a case on 2.7 from Penguin ever? Unless I'm missing it.

I'll dig into meta on Alonzo during the night; I think I badly misread him because his posting style is quite different. If he posts like he does here in other town games, he's probably null from me.

Acknowledged.

[2 718281828459]

What are you talking about?

I know we have little time but I would like to try to get an extension.

Keep in mind that due to plurality lynch I am currently the target, so hey anyone who for some reason wants me dead, no need to actually hammer because we can just wait it out.

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Wait, disregard that last line. I thought we were using forced lynches, but we are actually not.

[2 718281828459]

Yeah, that question surprises me as well. To me, it seems like Rob finally is going to lynch me but first wants to know my "flavor name".

I wish that someone could get prodded and replaced so we would have a chance to actually think this through rather than either no-lynch or rush-lynch a townie (i.e. myself).

I never wanted to have to claim my role because I was hoping that scum would try to shoot me later and have it fail.

Who all here think that Rob14 is town or null? If you do, why?

[2 718281828459]

Seriously though, like you seemingly completely ignore the conversation and ask a flavor question sight before the deadline. That sounds like someone who just wants to get a lynch in and wants the flavor name to not die with me.

Rob, I will reconsider if you can give a credible reason why a legit scumhunter would want to do as you just did in 446.

[2 718281828459]

Wait

what

???

I thought for

sure

that there would be at least one mafia. I did not use the day-vig because I thought that would make me seem like a SK or a Mafia.

[2 718281828459]

I might have used the day-vig if it were anonymous.

Why did I get Nexus? Is there something so that Nexus is like a serial killer?